i will just say again, I can testify that indeed some people are chosen before they are even born. My testimony is long but I will say at the age of ten years old, I was thinking about what I wanted to be when I grew up, the first word that entered my head was priest. After that it felt like an electric current ran through me. From that moment onwards life was not the same. So yes, people are ordained and chosen before they were even born. Why it has taken 38 pages so far to debate that is beyond me.