Elect according to the foreknowledge of God. 1 Peter 1:2

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
I know Eph 1. 4 doesn't say ' Chosen in Him 'to be saved 'before the Foundation of the world . I'm trying to enquire what you think it is saying ? Literally every usage of the terms Chosen , Election, elect always , always, always and like I said from the beginning ( not the beginning of time lol ) from the beginning of our conversation..It always refers to service and purpose . Every time . in the context . in the greek and in English ..Thats what it means . Its NEVER about salvation. Now you can all vauge on me about" all the bible is about salvation brother " . I got it . But their is no salvation in any sense about us before we existed . This is gnosctism. Gnostics taught the flesh is evil and totally depraved . This is where it all comes back to . Augustine creates the idea about God 'electing 'those before they existed . In order to refute pelagius in the forth century . Augustines ' total inability from birth starts with him and has influenced theology ever since . including the one you are trying to defend. The Arminain flavour of it .
Ephesians 1:4 says chose US before the foundation of the world. God said it, that settles it.
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
Because your thinking in terms of Doctrines rather than biblical usage of the words .
I’m thinking in terms of what the word means. Knowing is not foreknowing. God foreknew us before He called us and He called us before He justified us.
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
You are using step by step usage of doctrines that are ' Arminianism ' . I cant unsee it . You keep claiming that its just your own findings but each time your arguments are word for word Arminain . Whilst Arminsim isn't monolithic like Calvinism your still defending the majority of the Arminian position ..Which by my reckoning is just soft Calvinism.[/QUOTE
So by quoting scripture word for word, I’m defending Arminianism? Thanks for that insight.
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
YES! The spiritual blessings are in accordance to what God has chosen before the foundation of the world. Are those blessing are chosen us in Christ. We are not chosen, but what is found in Christ.
God chose US before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 1:4
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
'
You said a person has to be convinced to believe, right? Who does the convincing? You?
I do not ascribe to total inability.

I read convict not convince

8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,090
3,681
113
I’m thinking in terms of what the word means. Knowing is not foreknowing. God foreknew us before He called us and He called us before He justified us.
God foreknew us before he predestinated us. God had prior knowledge of us as sons, before he determined out destination. The question is, when did God know us as a son?
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
I do not ascribe to total inability.

I read convict not convince

8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
But you have to be convinced to believe, remember? Who does the convincing?
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
God foreknew us before he predestinated us. God had prior knowledge of us as sons, before he determined out destination. The question is, when did God know us as a son?
No, the question is when did God FOREKNOW us. Answer is in Ephesians 1:4-5.

Also in Romans 8. Foreknew before predestined. Predestined before called. Called before justified. Justified before glorified.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,090
3,681
113
God foreknew us before he predestinated us. God had prior knowledge of us as sons, before he determined out destination. The question is, when did God know us as a son?
See Galatians 4. It is a moment in time, not before the foundation of the world, not before we heard the gospel and believed. Galatians 4 plainly states, After that ye are known of God....AFTER
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
I do not ascribe to total inability.

I read convict not convince

8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
Define convict.
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
See Galatians 4. It is a moment in time, not before the foundation of the world, not before we heard the gospel and believed. Galatians 4 plainly states, After that ye are known of God....AFTER
So Paul contradicted himself.

Knowing is not the same as foreknowing.
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
Would you say 2 Tim 1.9 is a parallel ?
Sure. The first part of that verse is talking about calling, which follows foreknowledge and predestination in Romans 8:28-30 and the second part talks about what was granted in eternity,

Great verse