End Times Timeline

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KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
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Did Jesus tell people to hate their parents ? I have do an extensive study on it, the word means hates less, thats a fact.
We know for a fact that all beleivers have a mother that is not our earthly mother. Her name is heavenly Jerusalem.

Gal_4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

She's the "spiritual mother" of those of us that belong to Christ. Just like there's a "good" spiritual mother, there's also a bad one. It could be argued as to who she is, but the point is that there is a mother, father, brother and sister that all believers should hate.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
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I recall, when the Branch Davidians were all over the news, remembering that Koresch's declaring himself to be the Christ was merely a sign of the end of times.
More recently, however, I been learning a lot, from a man, who lives in Richardson, TX. (Note: Richardson is in the Dallas, TX, area, where I used to live. Back then, I knew nothing about this man and I had no idea that he would be the one, spoken of by Daniel, when Daniel admitted that he, himself, didn't understand the prophecy he'd just given.
Daniel added that one would come, in the end of the age, who would understand these things.

When I was in Bible college, back in the early '80's, my professors were unable to explain the feet on the statue in King Nebuchadnezzar's dream. They all understood everything, EXCEPT the feet, which is understandable.
Well, the man, I've mentioned, understands that the legs, which are iron and represent the Roman Catholic church, from the time Christ was on earth, has reappeared. You see, the legs are iron and the feet are iron, mired with clay. This is understandable, when you consider that, now, the Catholic Institution has become mixed with the European Union (I recall thinking that the end was near, when the EU began and the Euro monetary system was reported in the news....Now, as we see the Euro being reported to have overtaken the dollar in strength, it's becoming obvious that the worldwide monetary system is almost upon us.

Another thing, I've learned, is this: The beasts, in the visions, given to Daniel, in chapter 7 and, then, to John, in Revelation, chapter
13, have one striking difference: The eagle is in Daniel's vision but the eagle doesn't appear in John's vision. The explanation, given by Irvin Baxter is that the Holy Spirit simply changed secretaries, so the latter vision differs from the former.

The only difference is that the eagle, America, isn't in John's vision. However, John DOES mention the eagle, when he shows the final attempt by the devil to destroy the Kingdom of Jesus Christ and the mother and baby are taken away on the wings of a great eagle.

Irvin Baxter shows how America is going to remain in place, throughout the Tribulation.

Lastly, the main thing, misunderstood, by Christians, is the length of the Great Tribulation.
In 1999, I contacted a man, whom I've known since 1981 and he told me he'd written a book, in which he ooutlined how the belief in a 7-year Great Tribulation isn't true.
When Irvin Baxter said the same thing, I realized the truth had been missed, for a long, long time. Revelation 13:5 tells us the Great Tribulation (without mentioning it by name, of course) will extend 42 months.
Now, so as to first forty-two months, I think that is when the antiChrist will deceive the Israelites and, in so doing, set many of them up to be slaughtered, when he begins a holocaust that will make Hitler's WWII holocaust dull in comparison.

This is going to happen is the very near future and the beginning of the 7-year Tribulation will be when Israel, either willingly, or by force (probably from the U.N.) gives the West Bank to Palestine.

I don't understand the beasts very well so I can't make much of a comment. Interesting read though...
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
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You my friend are very much misinformed. The church is not Israel not by a long shot. God cursed them but did not remove them.
Replacement theology is false. Please disregard that replacement nonsense.
Do you think God's chosen people were the flesh descendants of Israel or the spiritual discendants of Israel?
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
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for some reason you just do not seem to wish to read the actual scripture to see what it says, You must just glance over it.

Obadiah 1: Concerning Edom
For violence against your brother Jacob,
Shame shall cover you,

And you shall be cut off forever.
11 In the day that you stood on the other side—
In the day that strangers carried captive his forces,
When foreigners entered his gates
And cast lots for Jerusalem—
Even you were as one of them.


12 “But you should not have gazed on the day of your brother
In the day of his captivity;
Nor should you have rejoiced over the children of Judah
In the day of their destruction;
Nor should you have spoken proudly
In the day of distress.

13 You should not have entered the gate of My people
In the day of their calamity.

Indeed, you should not have [gazed on their affliction
In the day of their calamity,

Nor laid hands on their substance
In the day of their calamity.

14 You should not have stood at the crossroads
To cut off those among them who escaped;

Nor should you have delivered up those among them who remained
In the day of distress.


these are things they did, And here in bold is the fact they entered the gates and laid hands on their substance inside the gates (they drank from the holy mountain)
You believe that this prophecy has already come to pass, but Obadiah says it happens at the day of the Lord.

(Oba 1:15) For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.

How do you explain this... how was it already fulfilled when Obadiah says it happens at the day of the Lord?

Do you not agree that their punishment was at day of of the Lord? I'm asking you sincerely because I'm totally confused as to how you believe on this.
 
Aug 3, 2018
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Why do you say this?

Just because a group of verses occurs later in a passage, does not mean that they occur later in time.
I had made a post (I *think* in the "Top Dogs" thread, not sure)… about how the sequence of the "7 yrs" is same in a number of passages...

(and recall, I am equating "the beginning of birth PANGS" to the "SEALS" of Rev6--these START *following* "our Rapture"/"THE Departure" of us [the Church which is His body]) and "kick-off" the DOTL time-period (its ARRIVAL and the part OF it which leads up to "His Second Coming to the earth [/RETURN]")...

So here is a small portion of that post (just to give you the general idea, without going into a great amount of detail here):


[quoting that portion of the post, which I'm going to "color-code" here in this post]


[...] in past posts I've endeavored to point out how the 7-yrs is consistently shown in its three parts (namely, as in, its "BEGINNING," its "MIDDLE," and its "END") in quite a number of places:

--Rev6:2... Rev13:1-7... Rev19

--Dan9:27a[/26b]... Dan9:27b... Dan9:27c

--2Th2:9a/8a/3b[/1Th5:2-3]... 2Th2:4... 2Th2:8b

--Matt24:4/Mk13:5 [G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE']... Matt24:15... Matt24:29-31[/Isa27:12-13]

[other verses of course...]


[end quoting]


____________

So note that I am saying that the INITIAL "birth PANG-SINGULAR [1Th5:2-3 AND Matt24:4/Mk13:5]" is what "kicks off" the DOTL time period, and is parallel with SEAL #1
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
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You believe that this prophecy has already come to pass, but Obadiah says it happens at the day of the Lord.

(Oba 1:15) For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.

How do you explain this... how was it already fulfilled when Obadiah says it happens at the day of the Lord?

Do you not agree that their punishment was at day of of the Lord? I'm asking you sincerely because I'm totally confused as to how you believe on this.
I believe what it says

EDOM committed those sins against Jerusalem and Jacob and is punished. (as the wo5rd says they were wiped off the face of the earth as a nation in punishment)

In the day of the Lord. All the heathen will be punished for what they have done and continue to do (see other prophesies that say the same thing)

Israel, Who was sinned against by her brother Edom when he committed those sins against her, Will be blessed. (it can't be the church because edom did not sin agaunst the church when the church was in jerusalem)

You want to skip the first part. Misinterpret the second part. And skip/misinterpret the last part.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
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I believe what it says

EDOM committed those sins against Jerusalem and Jacob and is punished. (as the wo5rd says they were wiped off the face of the earth as a nation in punishment)

In the day of the Lord. All the heathen will be punished for what they have done and continue to do (see other prophesies that say the same thing)

Israel, Who was sinned against by her brother Edom when he committed those sins against her, Will be blessed. (it can't be the church because edom did not sin agaunst the church when the church was in jerusalem)

You want to skip the first part. Misinterpret the second part. And skip/misinterpret the last part.
Do you agree that Joel 3:19 is the same punishment as Obadiah?

(Joe 3:19) Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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A few things help us ascertain just "when" the phrase "this generation" speaks of, or to "what" it pertains...

1) Q: is this the SAME [reference to] "this generation" in Lk21:32?
Yes, I believe it is.

so, in Lk21:32's placement and its phrase "till ALL be fulfilled" necessarily INCLUDES the info just provided in verse 24 ("and they shall be led away captive into all the nations" AND "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles UNTIL the TIMES of the Gentiles be fulfilled"<--both of these items MUST be included in v.32's "ALL" / "till ALL be fulfilled");
Again, yes.

The Jews were led away as captives. Although I don't have the references at hand, I have heard numbers from 30,000 to over 100,000 Jews sold as slaves after the sack of Jerusalem. The city was indeed "trodden down" by the Gentiles. The phrase, "the times of the Gentiles" must be considered in light of this, rather than having extrabiblical interpretations forced on it.

2) from there (if we agree they are the same "reference," and that these TWO items ^ must be INCLUDED in the overall understanding of the term), we can then examine the other SEQUENCE issues, such as: are the Matt24:4-8/Mk13:5-8/Lk21:8-11 [all known as] "the beginning of birth PANGS" even though the third one (Lk21:8-11) isn't LABELED as such?... and my conclusion is that they ARE (they ARE parallel/identical events; known as "the BoBPs");
Yes, all these are included in things that must take place, though I believe that verse 6 ("stone by stone") is not in sequence in the text.

3) from there (if we agree that all three of those sections are THE SAME [PARALLEL/identical] events ['the BoBPs']), then we can examine what verse 12 (following this section) says and means, when it states in Lk21:12, "But BEFORE ALL THESE [i.e. BEFORE all these beginning of birth pangs]," before all those BoBPs, the events of the following section must take place first (vv.12-24a's reference to "the 70ad events"--so this is saying "the 70ad events" must take place BEFORE "all the beginning of birth PANGS" of the prior section); and then in Matthew 24, THAT record is STARTING OUT with this [NEXT-IN-THE-SEQUENCE] "beginning of birth PANGS" (same for the Mk13 record); and which "BoBPs" are then FOLLOWED by the "AoD" point in time / event [unique to Matt24/Mk13]
Again, verse 6 is out of sequence, IMHO. These "birth pangs" all took place prior to AD 70; there is historical evidence for all and even biblical evidence for some.

1) the 70ad events [its (own) "SEE-then-FLEE" and the "led away captive into all the nations"] must take place before...
Neither of these are in the pre-70 set of events. The "before all these things" of verse 12 naturally ends with verse 19, and the "But" of verse 20 puts it elsewhere.
 
Aug 3, 2018
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Yes, all these are included in things that must take place, though I believe that verse 6 ("stone by stone") is not in sequence in the text.
[re: your reference to "v.6"] If you'll see the verses I included, I wrote "Lk21:8-11" … these alone are what I am calling as parallel/identical to what the other 2 books are calling "the beginning of birth PANGS"

Again, verse 6 is out of sequence, IMHO.
So verse 12 goes on to say, "But BEFORE ALL THESE" before the passage continues on to describe "the 70ad events" in 12-24a (with part b following on from there); meaning, the 70ad events (incl'g v.24a) must take place "BEFORE" the beginning of birth pangs (which were described in vv.8-11).



[I personally made no mention of verse 6 in Lk21... this note is for the readers]
 
Aug 3, 2018
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Neither of these are in the pre-70 set of events. The "before all these things" of verse 12 naturally ends with verse 19, and the "But" of verse 20 puts it elsewhere.
Okay, I think I grasp your perspective.

I am placing vv.23,20 (of Lk21) in the same category [time-slot] as the following:

--what Jesus SAID on Palm Sunday (the day the 69 Wks total were concluded [Zech9:9]), His words found in Luke 19:41-44

--Matt22:7

[these "fitting" the 70ad events time-slot, in my view... so all of vv.12-24a take place in that general time-frame (i.e. the first century), with part b (24b) following on from there (24b paralleling the wording in Rev11:2 also)]
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Okay, I think I grasp your perspective.

I am placing vv.23,20 (of Lk21) in the same category [time-slot] as the following:

--what Jesus SAID on Palm Sunday (the day the 69 Wks total were concluded [Zech9:9]), His words found in Luke 19:41-44
We agree on this.

[these "fitting" the 70ad events time-slot, in my view... so all of vv.12-24a take place in that general time-frame (i.e. the first century), with part b (24b) following on from there]
So you're excluding "until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled" from the events of 70 AD? Okay... but on what basis?
 
Aug 3, 2018
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So you're excluding "until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled" from the events of 70 AD? Okay... but on what basis?
No.

I'm saying:

--the first part of the verse and the second part of the verse are included in what v.32's "till ALL be fulfilled" (and that Rev11:2 is saying that second part isn't finished/concluded until the end of the [far-future] trib); but

--that they both happen in the events surrounding 70ad (this is what I mean by "part b follows on from there" b/c it is not yet FINISHED in the 70ad events); and

--that the phrase "the TIMES of the Gentiles" (being distinct from the phrase "the FULNESS of the Gentiles be come in [G1525]") refers NOT to [something akin to] "the church age" (I provided the definition elsewhere... it pertains to the "shall be TRODDEN DOWN [/trampled/tread under foot] by/of the Gentiles" and relates to Neb's "dream/statue/image" with Neb as "head of gold")
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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No. I'm saying:

--the first part of the verse and the second part of the verse are included in what v.32's "till ALL be fulfilled" (and that Rev11:2 is saying that second part isn't finished/concluded until the end of the [far-future] trib); but

--that they both happen in the events surrounding 70ad (this is what I mean by "part b follows on from there" b/c it is not yet FINISHED in the 70ad events);
Perhaps you could clarify what you mean by "part B" then.

--that the phrase "the TIMES of the Gentiles" (being distinct from the phrase "the FULNESS of the Gentiles be come in [G1525]") refers NOT to [something akin to] "the church age" (I provided the definition elsewhere... it pertains to the "shall be TRODDEN DOWN [/trampled/tread under foot] by/of the Gentiles" and relates to Neb's "dream/statue/image" with Neb as "head of gold")
As I have not read through the entire thread, I'm not sure what definition you mean. I see nothing in Daniel 2 about the "times" or "fulness" of the Gentiles.
 
Aug 3, 2018
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I see nothing in Daniel 2 about the "times" or "fulness" of the Gentiles.
Well, first of all, I said the two phrases are distinct, and are not referring to the same thing.

But I have to dash off right now... not time to elaborate... will try to come back later... :)
 
Aug 13, 2015
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