Ephesians 1:13-14 HOW THEY PUT THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Sep 9, 2018
2,244
1,021
113
66
Illinois
#1
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory” (Ephesians 1:13-14).

In whom ye also trusted . . .” What Paul is doing is he’s saying, ‘Look, like I’m saved—like you’re saved, this is what’s taking place.’ All right? Praise the Lord. And you go to this, and if you don’t understand it, I want you to keep going over it—word for word—until you get it in your soul. Right? So the first thing is you trusted. Well, Who did you trust? How did you trust? How did you know about trusting? See what it says?

after that ye heard the word of truth . . .” The what? ‘The word of truth’, very important.

the gospel of your salvation . . .” And what is Paul’s gospel? I Corinthians 15:1-4, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, according to the Scriptures.

in whom also after that ye believed . . .” You see that progression there? That’s the way it is, you gotta hear something— ‘Come now, let’s reason together, saith the Lord’ –you’re reasoning in your brain. And when the conclusion comes to your heart, business picks up. I mean you ‘heard the word of truth [the Gospel]’, right? “The Gospel of your salvation’ You heard it—and you believed it! You gotta believe it! And when you believe it, I like that . . .

ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.” What does that mean?

What does it mean? Signed, sealed and delivered. You’re going to heaven. Why? Because you believed. From where? From the heart. With the heart, when you asked Jesus to save you. I like it.

And only after the transaction of Chapter One is completed, can the good works of Chapter Two come into play. You don’t put chapter one in front of chapter two and then try to build your doctrine of election salvation or whatever they might be calling their scheme. God saved first, then save.

The following verse is a rehash of HOW of what happened in 1:13-14 and then it goes on to show the WHY.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them” (Ephesians 2:8-10).

Now, we quote these verses in chapter 2, but you got to remember that chapter 1 is before chapter 2, and you got to read that. Some people claim things that they never had to do what it takes to get it. Paul is speaking in chapter 2 that had already done what they needed to do in chapter 1, so chapter 2 is not the salvation chapter—it is the after-salvation chapter.

You see, salvation, or being saved, is God’s work through His Spirit. That salvation is presented in Ephesians Chapter 1. That salvation is conditioned upon hearing the Word of God, believing the Word of God, and choosing to believe. Of course, repentance is involved, and that occurs before the actual transaction of believing, which is then followed by the received.

Then, and only then, are we elected to serve God, although few Christians will follow through and render any service to God at all.

Serving God is relying on God’s help, and it is impossible to serve God if you are not a Christian. Now that’s not profound, is it? How in the world can you serve the living God if you are not a Christian? You can do outwardly good things, but you are not serving God. You are serving your own righteousness.

That’s why I tell you, we need to constantly pray for God to give us an opening—so we can tell people about the Gospel—or hand out a Gospel tract. Don’t trust the stuff the world tries to tell you! The day and age in which we are living, everybody is trusting everything. Oh, he heard a song—but no change! –no spiritual connection!

People need to trust Christ, not that good feeling they got this morning when their toast was especially nicely toasted.
 
Sep 9, 2018
2,244
1,021
113
66
Illinois
#2
Sep 9, 2018
2,244
1,021
113
66
Illinois
#3
"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love" (Ephesians 1:4).

The clear purpose of God's election is that we would stand before Him in glory with the same holiness and purity that His Son possesses now. In eternity future, we will be carbon copies of Jesus Christ Himself. That 'election' is a post- not a pre- salvation truth.

Where in the world do I get that from! (You know that I will be shouted down shortly, right?)

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure" (I John 3:2-3).

It can't get any clearer than that!
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
6,660
666
113
#5
"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love" (Ephesians 1:4).

The clear purpose of God's election is that we would stand before Him in glory with the same holiness and purity that His Son possesses now. In eternity future, we will be carbon copies of Jesus Christ Himself. That 'election' is a post- not a pre- salvation truth.

Where in the world do I get that from! (You know that I will be shouted down shortly, right?)

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure" (I John 3:2-3).

It can't get any clearer than that!
I would say you're describing the believer's destination. This believer is predestined for what you've described above, not elected. Election always points to service.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,023
14,623
113
#6
My view on election is simple....God predetermined before he cast down the earth in creation that ALL who come to him in Christ will be CHOSEN in Christ.....

I understand that God can see and does know the future
I understand that God calls MANY but not ALL
I understand that GOD made the wicked for the day of destruction and they go astray from the womb
I understand that God can base his CALL upon his foreknowledge
I understand that GOD has mercy upon whom he wills
I understand that ore will be lost than saved
I understand that salvation is open unto ALL as God would HAVE all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth
I understand that the word KOSMOS is used in John 3:16
I understand that Christ is the savior of ALL MEN especially those that BELIEVE
I understand that everything testifies so that men are without excuse

there are MANY truths that must be taken into account....!
 
Sep 9, 2018
2,244
1,021
113
66
Illinois
#7
I would say you're describing the believer's destination. This believer is predestined for what you've described above, not elected. Election always points to service.
Agreed. Unfortunately there are a few folks on this site that can't see beyond the word 'election' and that is how they force this verse. I coulda shoulda spent more time developing that, but it's been done elsewhere.

In any case, the verse uses the word 'chosen.' In other verses the word 'predestined' is used. Yes, there is a difference. And the word predestined does not mean a 'royal decree' as some would have us believe.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,460
1,001
113
#8
I would say you're describing the believer's destination. This believer is predestined for what you've described above, not elected. Election always points to service.
Yes service. God working in us to both will and do His good pleasure . Not being served by humans hands as a will. But preforming in us working with us that which he appoints to us as free will, (the authority to do the will of another) as that kind of food the disciples at first knew not of.

It is God alone who can create in us a soft heart as a imputed righteousness.

But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him.For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:Job 23:13-16

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:12-13
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,460
1,001
113
#9
In any case, the verse uses the word 'chosen.' In other verses the word 'predestined' is used. Yes, there is a difference. And the word predestined does not mean a 'royal decree' as some would have us believe.
Yes chosen, predestined as the many whose names were written in the lamb's book of eternal life from before the foundation of the world . The different books will be opened. The elected will be in both books when compared together. Those who will not rise to new spirit life in one book.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,374
3,078
113
#10
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory” (Ephesians 1:13-14).
This passage clearly lays out the sequence of events which lead to salvation (some of which are not explicitly mentioned here).

1. The Gospel (the Word of truth) is preached. It is the seed of the New Birth.

2. Sinners are convicted and convinced by the Holy Spirit that this is truth.

3. Sinners repent for the remission of sins. They are therefore converted.

4. Sinners believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and receive Him as Lord and Savior.

5. Sinners then receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, are born again, and sealed by the Spirit.

6. Sinners become saints, saved by grace, and are guaranteed an eternal inheritance.

7. The sealing with the Spirit is also the guarantee of eternal life, and the eternal security of the believer.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,183
2,336
113
#11
I wonder if anyone ever became a calvinist on their own.

You would run into free will not only in Genesis, but hundreds and HUNDREDS of times when God pleads for repentance from Israel

isaiah 5:4

I will probably die of natural causes before I get a calvinist reply to these questions:

1. Why does God say He wants ALL MEN to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, but then refuses to give them faith?

2. Why does God plead and plead and ask and ask and command people to repent, when the reason they wont repent is because they cant, because God will not give them the gift of repentance?
 
Sep 9, 2018
2,244
1,021
113
66
Illinois
#12
Yes service. God working in us to both will and do His good pleasure . Not being served by humans hands as a will. But preforming in us working with us that which he appoints to us as free will, (the authority to do the will of another) as that kind of food the disciples at first knew not of.

It is God alone who can create in us a soft heart as a imputed righteousness.

But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him.For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:Job 23:13-16

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:12-13
So, if a man is one of the elect and a child of God, is he then also predestinated to lead a successful, vibrant Christian life to the end?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,664
1,978
113
#13
I wonder if anyone ever became a calvinist on their own.

You would run into free will not only in Genesis, but hundreds and HUNDREDS of times when God pleads for repentance from Israel

isaiah 5:4

I will probably die of natural causes before I get a calvinist reply to these questions:

1. Why does God say He wants ALL MEN to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, but then refuses to give them faith?

2. Why does God plead and plead and ask and ask and command people to repent, when the reason they wont repent is because they cant, because God will not give them the gift of repentance?
1. John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

That's the words of the Lord Jesus Christ.

So your question is more for God than for Calvinists.

2. Seems to be pretty much the same question as #1
 
Sep 9, 2018
2,244
1,021
113
66
Illinois
#14
I wonder if anyone ever became a calvinist on their own.
Nah, they need for Satan to whisper in their ears, 'Yea, hath God said?' Yeah, hath God said that all men might be saved? Yea, hath God said that whomsoever will may come? Yea, hath God said, come unto me ALL ye that are heavy laden? Yea, hath God said?

Satan loves to plant the seed of doubt, then he has his 'angels of light' to plow the seeds and nurture them until they grow up into full-fledged salvation-denying Calvinists.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
6,660
666
113
#15
I wonder if anyone ever became a calvinist on their own.

You would run into free will not only in Genesis, but hundreds and HUNDREDS of times when God pleads for repentance from Israel

isaiah 5:4

I will probably die of natural causes before I get a calvinist reply to these questions:

1. Why does God say He wants ALL MEN to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, but then refuses to give them faith?

2. Why does God plead and plead and ask and ask and command people to repent, when the reason they wont repent is because they cant, because God will not give them the gift of repentance?
If all one had was the Scriptures, one would never come away with such a doctrine like Calvinism.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,710
494
83
#16
That’s why I tell you, we need to constantly pray for God to give us an opening—so we can tell people about the Gospel—or hand out a Gospel tract. Don’t trust the stuff the world tries to tell you! The day and age in which we are living, everybody is trusting everything. Oh, he heard a song—but no change! –no spiritual connection!

People need to trust Christ, not that good feeling they got this morning when their toast was especially nicely toasted.
It is amazing the places the Lord puts you to witness when you ask.

I'm so ancient I've lived almost a 100 years and this old body lost it's balance so it's hard to walk. I am OLD. I live in assisted living and they don't want me in the dining room because I always choke on my food. My family does not want to be bothered with me, haven't seen ones from my town in three years. So you would think I don't have a chance to witness.

Yesterday as I waited for dial a ride a man sat beside me who, I discovered, needed witnessing, He thanked me and gave me a hug.

Today, on dial a ride again the driver was a Christian worried about old age and loosing faith. There was a long time it was just her and I on the bus. Again, I was thanked with a hug.

I have found that bible thumpers who don't mainly listen do more harm than good. Witnessing is composed of lots and lots of personal study and lots and lots of listening.
 

Jan7777777

Active member
Oct 19, 2018
224
152
43
#17
It is amazing the places the Lord puts you to witness when you ask.

I'm so ancient I've lived almost a 100 years and this old body lost it's balance so it's hard to walk. I am OLD. I live in assisted living and they don't want me in the dining room because I always choke on my food. My family does not want to be bothered with me, haven't seen ones from my town in three years. So you would think I don't have a chance to witness.

Yesterday as I waited for dial a ride a man sat beside me who, I discovered, needed witnessing, He thanked me and gave me a hug.

Today, on dial a ride again the driver was a Christian worried about old age and loosing faith. There was a long time it was just her and I on the bus. Again, I was thanked with a hug.

I have found that bible thumpers who don't mainly listen do more harm than good. Witnessing is composed of lots and lots of personal study and lots and lots of listening.
praise God for witnessing servants like you, your family doesn't want to be bothered with you but some day they will reap what they sowed. its sad how families do not seem to want to care. God gives us opportunities all the time, and its not a coincidence you and the driver were the only ones on board. keep up the good work for Christ, he deserves it.

..... my opinion on choking on your food....have them stretch your esophagus....I had it done, it doesn't hurt at all. I really think it shrinks in age.
 

Jan7777777

Active member
Oct 19, 2018
224
152
43
#18
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory” (Ephesians 1:13-14).

In whom ye also trusted . . .” What Paul is doing is he’s saying, ‘Look, like I’m saved—like you’re saved, this is what’s taking place.’ All right? Praise the Lord. And you go to this, and if you don’t understand it, I want you to keep going over it—word for word—until you get it in your soul. Right? So the first thing is you trusted. Well, Who did you trust? How did you trust? How did you know about trusting? See what it says?

after that ye heard the word of truth . . .” The what? ‘The word of truth’, very important.

the gospel of your salvation . . .” And what is Paul’s gospel? I Corinthians 15:1-4, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, according to the Scriptures.

in whom also after that ye believed . . .” You see that progression there? That’s the way it is, you gotta hear something— ‘Come now, let’s reason together, saith the Lord’ –you’re reasoning in your brain. And when the conclusion comes to your heart, business picks up. I mean you ‘heard the word of truth [the Gospel]’, right? “The Gospel of your salvation’ You heard it—and you believed it! You gotta believe it! And when you believe it, I like that . . .

ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.” What does that mean?

What does it mean? Signed, sealed and delivered. You’re going to heaven. Why? Because you believed. From where? From the heart. With the heart, when you asked Jesus to save you. I like it.

And only after the transaction of Chapter One is completed, can the good works of Chapter Two come into play. You don’t put chapter one in front of chapter two and then try to build your doctrine of election salvation or whatever they might be calling their scheme. God saved first, then save.

The following verse is a rehash of HOW of what happened in 1:13-14 and then it goes on to show the WHY.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them” (Ephesians 2:8-10).

Now, we quote these verses in chapter 2, but you got to remember that chapter 1 is before chapter 2, and you got to read that. Some people claim things that they never had to do what it takes to get it. Paul is speaking in chapter 2 that had already done what they needed to do in chapter 1, so chapter 2 is not the salvation chapter—it is the after-salvation chapter.

You see, salvation, or being saved, is God’s work through His Spirit. That salvation is presented in Ephesians Chapter 1. That salvation is conditioned upon hearing the Word of God, believing the Word of God, and choosing to believe. Of course, repentance is involved, and that occurs before the actual transaction of believing, which is then followed by the received.

Then, and only then, are we elected to serve God, although few Christians will follow through and render any service to God at all.

Serving God is relying on God’s help, and it is impossible to serve God if you are not a Christian. Now that’s not profound, is it? How in the world can you serve the living God if you are not a Christian? You can do outwardly good things, but you are not serving God. You are serving your own righteousness.

That’s why I tell you, we need to constantly pray for God to give us an opening—so we can tell people about the Gospel—or hand out a Gospel tract. Don’t trust the stuff the world tries to tell you! The day and age in which we are living, everybody is trusting everything. Oh, he heard a song—but no change! –no spiritual connection!

People need to trust Christ, not that good feeling they got this morning when their toast was especially nicely toasted.
Trusting is what he is teaching me at this time...... I keep telling him to step ahead of me, and to even break through my freewill since I do not make good decisions....lol he actually did just that one time. it was awesome, he actually stop me from hearing someone screaming at me, I was told later, that the person was screaming in my ear ( I have good hearing) I was at awe he did that because what was told to me, I would have let my temper explode....well, in church the next day, the preacher said to turn to someone and give them a hug...I did my son...then I went further and stepped over and hug the person that screamed at me unnecessarily.., The Lord showed me through that, ....that turning the other cheek works a lot better. I tell him daily to break through my freewill and teach me to trust him taking over my life, because his way is so easy.....he says my yoke is easy and my burden light....well it 'IS' if you let him take over, when "WE" do it, he is a gentleman and steps back ...KNOWING, we are going to mess up. The freedom I got from letting go and letting him take over, is unreal, its no stress in my life...it leaves me in awe every day.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
4,778
5,420
113
#20
HAHAHHAHAHHAH I agree............
Yeah, but...but...but...

come on guys, lol, we can see that even in the just right toast, lol, His goodness is revealed. Hey it only confirms as do so many things that He is invested in all our lives, right? After all, ALL good things come from Him, lol.