Ephesians 6:12 A biblical perspective.

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Clayman

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May 30, 2021
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#81
Being tested by satan is common to man. And what does it reveal to satan? Gods Grace and Mercy. That God was fair and Just in His judgement of satan. It's not about how good we are, it's about how good God is. He provides everything we need to go through the testing. He isn't going to allow a young believer to be tested as a mature believer. If one has the full armor of God on He will allow harder tests because that one can endure more.........and it Glorifies God, not the believer. It gives the believer more rewards to place at His feet.
Interesting Ive never heard any one say that Satan is the cause of sin that is common to man before.
Everyday life causes enough testing and trials without Satan throwing petrol on the fire in my humble opinion.

Eve was the first to sin.
Disagree, Eve's eyes and Adam's eyes were not opened after Eve ate of the fruit, they were opened after Adam ate of the fruit, as Adam was commanded not to eat of the tree, then after Adam disobeyed God's Word and ate they saw that they were naked.

Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned
And your other books are not very similar, if you think it proclaims war in heaven brought sin in this world, mankind did.
I may have another look, I only had a skim, the introduction starts like this though which indicates the angelic host are not part of our creation and before it.

"The Angelic Conflict began before human history and is the reason for the creation of mankind. It is a conflict that is in full force today. This conflict explains the small personal problems in life as well as the major events that take place throughout all of human history. Although most individuals are ignorant of this conflict (including many Christians), the Angelic Conflict affects all aspects of our lives."

On pg 72 is one of the places that seems to indicate that the angels fall introduced sin into the world. Which if you disagree with then we are in agreeance that its wrong. Yet a red flag was that the fall even affected the trinity? I don't know if I want to know where they go with that, I am trying to pretend I didn't read things like that.

"One final question that should be asked is why a holy and righteous God, who is all knowing and all powerful, would allow this angelic fall? This fall introduced sin into the universe, affecting angels as well as human beings, not to mention its affect upon the Trinity. To answer this, we simply need to realize that God is perfect."

Anyway its big book, and Im half way through another book, with another book given to me by a fellow church member that I have to read and get back to him about. But if I can spare time ill have more of look.
 

Kroogz

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Dec 5, 2023
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#82
I think you may have to bang the record player it appears stuck.

Ok explain this to me.

John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.


Concerning the coming of the Holy Spirit in John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

The ruler of the world is now judged and is now cast out, how do you twist these verse to line up with your belief?
Why isn't this world's judgement carried out NOW?
 

Kroogz

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Dec 5, 2023
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#83
Interesting Ive never heard any one say that Satan is the cause of sin that is common to man before.
Nor have I. You're the first one I have ever heard that malarkey from. I will keep my posts short from here on out.
 

Clayman

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May 30, 2021
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#84
Nor have I. You're the first one I have ever heard that malarkey from. I will keep my posts short from here on out.
Sorry, I had to reread what I wrote, I meant to use the word temptation, a brain melt down on my part..

Obviously we disagree on this, yet I wasn't going to get into why I disagree it's not really that important to me, for I want to keep things as respectful, and conducive as I can, for you probably have noticed this topic hits a raw nerve on some which I find surprising. So if someone is respective in conversation the last thing I want to do is offend.

Correction, "Interesting, Ive never heard any one say that Satan is the cause of temptation that is common to man before."
 

Clayman

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May 30, 2021
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#85
Why isn't this world's judgement carried out NOW?
I thought it was, Christ bore God's judgment for all mankind upon Himself, on that Cruel cross of Calvary?
 

Kroogz

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Dec 5, 2023
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#86
Kroogz said:
~~~~~Correct me if I am wrong.~~~~~~
~~~~~You said satan and the angels he deceived fell at the time of Christ's birth? And were bound at His resurrection?~~~~~


Yes, I believe the war in heaven happened at the time of Christs first advent,
1 John 3:8~~8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
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#87
I thought it was, Christ bore God's judgment for all mankind upon Himself, on that Cruel cross of Calvary?
Why aren't all unbelievers in hell right now? If that verse indicates satan is cast out NOW, the judgement and sentence for this world should be carried out NOW.
 

Clayman

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May 30, 2021
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#88
Kroogz said:
~~~~~Correct me if I am wrong.~~~~~~
~~~~~You said satan and the angels he deceived fell at the time of Christ's birth? And were bound at His resurrection?~~~~~



1 John 3:8~~8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Who did the devil murder at the beginning?
 

Clayman

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May 30, 2021
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#89
Why aren't all unbelievers in hell right now? If that verse indicates satan is cast out NOW, the judgement and sentence for this world should be carried out NOW.
Could you clarify please, did Jesus bare the Judgment of our sins on the cross?
 
Dec 3, 2023
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#90
I don't think all the word here necessarily mean the government,Some organizations and individuals representing Christians may also be included.Those people use the Bible to spread hatred and hostility,Is this how Jesus Christ taught us?So how is this different from the government in the secular world?
 

Kroogz

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Dec 5, 2023
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#91
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Who did the devil murder at the beginning?
Genesis 3:1–15 (NASB95)

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Indeed, has God said, ‘You shall not eat from any tree of the garden’?”

Eve's eyes and Adam's eyes were not opened after Eve ate of the fruit
EVE.
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
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#92
Could you clarify please, did Jesus bare the Judgment of our sins on the cross?
Yes.

If satans sentence is carried out NOW. Why isn't the world's sentence carried out NOW?

If satan is cast out NOW. Why aren't all unbelievers cast out NOW? Both judgments have been made.
 

Clayman

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May 30, 2021
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#93
Genesis 3:1–15 (NASB95)

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Indeed, has God said, ‘You shall not eat from any tree of the garden’?”

EVE.
I think a bit differently to most, To me Jesus was slain at the beginning, it was Part of God's plan that the lamb was slain from the foundation of the world Rev 13:8

What I'm trying to say is just Because Jesus was foreordained to die at the beginning does not mean he died at the beginning,
The same with Satan although God knew he was a murderer from the beginning does not mean he murdered any one at the beginning
 

Clayman

Active member
May 30, 2021
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#94
I don't think all the word here necessarily mean the government,Some organizations and individuals representing Christians may also be included.Those people use the Bible to spread hatred and hostility,Is this how Jesus Christ taught us?So how is this different from the government in the secular world?
Agreed, makes sense to me.

My view is not that different from most people, it's just I have a metaphoric interpretation where they try to join the literal and metaphoric together, Yet the bible always draws my attention by what appears to be contradictions at first glance, it does the same with the verses about Satan.

For example look at vs 16 for more context, above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.

Obviously it's not literal, if it was literal, then the wicked one Satan, would indwell someone and grab a dart thrower light the darts on fire and throw them at me, and then I would need a literal shield. I'm not trying to facetious pointing out the obvious but making a point.

If they are not real darts then they are metaphorical, A teacher in high school has power and authority and they can teach the evolution to the kids in the class, where they need the shield of faith, which believes God's Word over the authorities on earth, and yes agree some churches in authority can also teach evolution and a gap theory etc etc.
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
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302
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#95
I think a bit differently to most, To me Jesus was slain at the beginning, it was Part of God's plan that the lamb was slain from the foundation of the world Rev 13:8

What I'm trying to say is just Because Jesus was foreordained to die at the beginning does not mean he died at the beginning,
The same with Satan although God knew he was a murderer from the beginning does not mean he murdered any one at the beginning
Well, I think it's pretty clear. God knew how it was going to play out. But we have a record in time for how it played out. It's our beginning and satan obviously heard "you shall surely die." It's a hard one for me to see it any other way.
 

Clayman

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May 30, 2021
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#96
Yes.

If satans sentence is carried out NOW. Why isn't the world's sentence carried out NOW?

If satan is cast out NOW. Why aren't all unbelievers cast out NOW? Both judgments have been made.
I don't understand the reasoning, if Satan is cast out t the beginning of the millennium, it does not mean to me that all the unbelievers must be cast out and judged.
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
771
302
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#97
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Who did the devil murder at the beginning?
Could I get your view on post #86 please?
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
771
302
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#98
I don't understand the reasoning, if Satan is cast out t the beginning of the millennium, it does not mean to me that all the unbelievers must be cast out and judged.
Clayman said:
I think you may have to bang the record player it appears stuck.

Ok explain this to me.

John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.


Concerning the coming of the Holy Spirit in John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

The ruler of the world is now judged and is now cast out, how do you twist these verse to line up with your belief?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you take the second part of John 12:31 as NOW, the sentence as carried out. satan cast out now.

Why isn't the first part of John 12:31 NOW, the sentence as carried out? Unbelievers cast out now.
 

selahsays

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May 31, 2023
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#99
@Clayman
Back to Ephesians 6:12-13:

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

This battle, in my opinion, points to the latter days (“in the evil day”). We will battle against wicked and evil spiritual powers, not against physical ones. As the prince of darkness, Satan has spiritual power over the thoughts and deeds of all wicked spirits in the heavenlies as well as over the rulers of this world. This will be a battle not of guns but of words and false doctrine and thoughts and ideas. These are the "fiery darts" with which Satan will fight you. The passage in Daniel 8:23 gives us a clue of how it will be: And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

"King of fierce countenance"—who is he? He is none other than Satan It is imperative that we put on God's full armor and prepare ourselves for the days ahead.
 

selahsays

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May 31, 2023
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I don't understand the reasoning, if Satan is cast out t the beginning of the millennium, it does not mean to me that all the unbelievers must be cast out and judged.
Satan is cast out at the 5th trump. Satan comes before Jesus Christ’s return at the 7th trump:

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.