eschaton made easy

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Feb 14, 2011
1,783
4
0
Mystery Babylon has nothing to do with Israel,and Israel will not achieve any world domination.


1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee(Zechariah 14:1-5).

It is God's purpose to gather the entire world against Israel,all Gentile nations together against Israel,and then God will fight against all the Gentile nations and put them down.

So we see that it is the Gentile nations that come together as a power,not Israel having any power,and attacking Israel,in which God saves them,for they recognize Jesus as their Messiah then.


1And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified(Revelation 11:1-8).

God will send the Jews 2 witnesses to turn them to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah,and when the world attacks them,then Jesus will save them.

The Jews will not attain to any power,and is not using America as a base,and will come to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.
ABSOLUTELY. There is a first gathering of israel, it happened in 1948, but the next gathering will be in the kingdom.isiah11:11--16.
 
Feb 14, 2011
1,783
4
0
go back and re-read Revelation. its not that hard.

The Great City, ---Where the Lord was Crucified

passages identifying Mystery Babylon as the great city (Revelation 17:18; 18:10). The great city of Revelation is identified as the city spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified." (Revelation 11:8)



she's well on her way: thanks to USA and other who have believed the SCOFIELD DISPENSATIONAL DECEPTION, and have given her billions of dollars every year, vetoed efforts to prosecute her for WAR CRIMES, and make excuses for all her sins (which are piling up to heaven NOW).

she will achieve it FOR A SHORT SPACE...do you know who the wealthiest men the world are? ROTHSCHILDS (Edomite converts to Talmudism, just like the HERODS)

don't you know what's actually happening in the M.E.? all those "arab" nations falling like dominoes?:rolleyes:
oh my, oh my: Jerusalem is a phisical city. babylon the great, the great city is a spiritual city.
a spiritual city where all evil dwelled; the world.the apirit of this world and all the worlds in the past,starting with Egypt. Israel was of non existence then.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
I think I've contracted an infectious strain of the Forum Futility Virus. As an anti-Trinitarian and anti-Dispensationalist who sees Calvi-Armi as reconcilable and a false dichotomy; I generally find only disagreement or conflict. Catho-Ortho lying signs... Dead evangelical denominationalism... And thanks to the ridiculous NAR, a true biblical Continuationist like me doesn't find much common ground very many places.

I might wander over, but I'm sure everyone's Trinitarian. A perplexing dilemna for a Berean.

I greatly appreciate your barrage against the absurdity of the Scofieldian Darbyite regime. Most western evangelicals will only become aware of Talmudism and the San Hedrin shortly before their death.

Cue... Pseudo-Rapture. (Didn't we all just miss it Saturday... again?)
HAHAHHAAHAHAehehehee.......oh my......

ROTFLHMO!
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
The fight is over just Israel the land but how come there seem to be terrorists and those who want to kill Jews(??) , that will not make things better anyway on either side. That land is their land since 1948 it is not wise to try to change that .If I was Israeli I would not hand it over to the other countries. Why should they. Even consider Revelations chapter 14. If we are wrong in being more anti-Jew the danger being if it is true God will judge those who really start fighting Israel / our dispute maybe with God not men..// My above former post I was only thinking out loud. See where God's character is in this. Rome fell possibly from just attacking Israel in 70 AD..Babylon fell though they also destroyed the Temple. Before 600 BC. The old prophets told that Babylon would be judged after that or destroyed for being used to bring any evil.

hi joseph.

this isn't about being "anti-jew":rolleyes:, though that's where this ALWAYS goes.

if you can show me anywhere in scripture where Jesus changed His mind about the Pharisees and their religion, we'll have something to talk about.

since the leadership of the state of israel is either secular or Talmudic, they do not know God.

in fact, if anyone does not recognize The Son, they do not know the Father.

Rome fell because it was a bloated pagan imperialist regime.....Titus carried out Christ's decree on Jerusalem in 70AD.

on top of that, we have the question facing us of who is a jew? and i'm not even asking the Pauline question....i'm asking who are authentically semitic peoples?

things are a little more complicated than they appear.

also: please refer to The Sermon on The Mount: is that what we see today?

also: regarding terrorism: please post any specific terrorists or terror attacks you are referring to and we will find out who is responsible for them, and to what end.

for example: did you know that AL QUAEDA is CIA?

did you know THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD is British created and operated?

did you know ISRAEL created HAMAS?

and finally....let's take the greatest shock and awe event in human history 9-11:

WHO DID 9-11, and why?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
would this be considered a curse or a judgment? for scribes and Pharisees are descendants of Israel right?
how would this passage apply in modern day terms?


Matthew 23:13-15 (New King James Version)

13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. 14 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.[a]
15 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.
what a novel question:rolleyes:

hmmm.....i wonder if the Pharisees even exist today? that was a long time ago, wasn't it?

s'all good now, isn't it?
 
N

NoahsMom

Guest
read Jude...............................jus sayin.........................
 
Feb 23, 2011
1,708
13
0
The punishment I was speaking of that of the mind, when it realizes it's error.

And lest you think that I consider myself to be beyond or past such things, I know that I will suffer loss when I see Him, and most of that loss will be because of my suspoaed intellect.

It is written that when we see Him we will know even as we are known. I believe that this will be a painful experience for us all, to some extent.

What I was mainly addressing is the tendency to take the evidence before our eyes as the most basic truth, and to ignore the still small voice which says that everything is not as it seems. The more intelligent a person is, the easier it is for them to turn off that quiet inner voice, and then trust their sight exclusively. What amazes me is that most of them still claim to believe in God, just that He is far away, and will remain so.

And so we see beliefs such as continuance and denial of the thousand year reign of Jesus, and even of the resurrection and His return.

Satan has been called the great deceiver, but in truth he is just a liar. We deceive ourselves.
Yeah, well... many "deceive themselves" by listening to others. In general, people don't believe as they do by prayer and spirit-led study with fasting. By and large, they are indoctrinated and taught within systems of doctrines. Few have an awareness and understanding of anything beyond their own assertions and assent.

Dispensationalism is just such a system. Trinitarianism is the King-Daddy of all such systems. The Calvi-Armi debate is a conflicting convergence of two systems. The list goes on endlessly.

As for wisdom, it would help to know WHAT it IS and ISN'T, and how to have it; and to know the difference between wisdom and knowledge and knowledge and knowledge. There are three distinct kinds of knowledge, and none are wisdom; prudence is different still.

Everyone's too busy "knowing" their "truths" to actually know much.

I'm a Continuationist, but the latest NAR regime has elevated the gifts above the Giver. Tongues would be the most ridiculously abused and misused practice in Christendom if it weren't trumped by all the self-appointed Prophets and the many "Prophet Schools", etc.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Hi Anandya

These are just a couple of thoughts of my own

I will contend with those who contend with you
Isiaih 49:25

I don't know of anyone who believes God has placed Israel back in their OT homeland who believes they are at this point living the Christian life, or how God would have them live(with exceptions)

But neverthelsss to many of us, OT prophecies clearly state thast the Jews will be brought back to their former homeland and God will do it.

In the infinate plan of God that we can at times only partly understand until we see its working out, I would say. Is it possible that God chose to return the Israelites to their homeland before they had fully come back to him and accepted Christ as their saviour? I would say it is definately possible.
And either God was in them returning or he was not, which raises another question
Could they have returned and become a nation if God did not will it?
If God did will it and it ispart of his plan, anyone who contends with Israel or is against them is against God's plan for them.

I am a firm believer that a time is coming when all Jews in their homeland will be saved. With my human mind I cannot rationalise it, but to me scripture is clear on this.
And I wonder that if they finally do all turn to Christ as their saviour whether at that time the wars they are involved in will cease(apart of course from Armageddon)

Just an attempt to answer your question as best I can
here's a perfect example of THE LEAVEN OF THE PHARISEES injected into Christianity via dispensational theology.

notice the theological focus is Israel (unbelieving israel at that), and NOT CHRIST (the true Israel) in Whom ALL prophecies found their fulfillment.

notice that we must brush aside the CHURCH which is actually believing Israel expanded, not replaced.

notice that we haven't even been able yet to determine who is truly a physical descendant of Abraham, never mind a spiritual son of Abraham.

God is NOT the author of confusion.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
oh my, oh my: Jerusalem is a phisical city. babylon the great, the great city is a spiritual city.
a spiritual city where all evil dwelled; the world.the apirit of this world and all the worlds in the past,starting with Egypt. Israel was of non existence then.
uhh....HUH?
you're the PROPHECY MAJOR and now you're claiming john wasn't shown the future? LOL!

Revelation 11:18
Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

yes wakeup....Jesus was crucified in the mystical world called mystery babylon. *face palm*

do you know what Kabbalah and Talmud are? where they came from and who brought them to JERUSALEM?

do you know why it is called SPIRITUALLY Sodom & Egpyt?
 
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
7
0
In that day I will restore David's fallen tent
I will repair its broken places
restore its ruins
and build it as it used to be
So that they may possess the remnant of Edom
And all the nations that bear my name
declares the Lord who will do these things
The days are coming declares the Lord
When the reaper will be overtaken by the ploughman
and the planter by the one treading grapes
New wine will drip from the mlountains
And flow from the hills
I will bring back my exiled people Israel
They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them
They will plant vinyards and drink their wine
They will make gardens and eat their fruit
I will plant Israel in their own land
never again to be uprooted
from the land I have given them
says the Lord your God
Amos 9:11-15

This is whjat the Lord says
See I will beckon to the Gentiles
I will lift up my banner to the peoples
they will bring your sons in their arms
and carry your daughters on their shoulders
Kings will be your foster fathers
and their queens your nursing mothers
They will bow down before you with their faces to the ground
they will lick the dust at your feet
then you will know that I am the Lord
Isiaih 49:21-23

This is what the Lord says
In those days ten men from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say
Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you
Zech 8:23

Though I scatter them among thje peoples
yet in distant lands they will remember me
they and their children will survive
and they will return
I will bring them back from Egypt
and gather them from Assyria
I will bring them to Gilead and Lebanon
and there will not be room enough for them
Zech 10:9&10
 
May 18, 2011
1,815
10
0
would this be considered a curse or a judgment? for scribes and Pharisees are descendants of Israel right?
how would this passage apply in modern day terms?


AnandaHya, Israel being righteous or not, has nothing to do with the promise God gave Israel, and that is Israel is His chosen people. Ez. 36:22-27

22)"Therefore say to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord God: "I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My Holy names's sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went.

So regardless of the pharisees and saducees whom Yeshua rebuke, God state clearly that in the last days He is going to restore His people, not because we deserve it, but because He promised it. If it weren't true than Israel would have never been reborn in 1948, for there would never had been a reason for Israel's restoration as a country. Shalom
 
Feb 23, 2011
1,708
13
0
Question(s)...

Since when is "Jew" a race?

And since when are Jews the only Semitic people?

And since when are today's residents of Israel "Jews"?


Oddly enough... supporting Israel makes one anti-Semitic by default, since those they oppose are themselves also Semitic. Pro-Israel or Anti-Israel is anti-Semitic.
 
Feb 14, 2011
1,783
4
0
uhh....HUH?
you're the PROPHECY MAJOR and now you're claiming john wasn't shown the future? LOL!

Revelation 11:18
Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

yes wakeup....Jesus was crucified in the mystical world called mystery babylon. *face palm*

do you know what Kabbalah and Talmud are? where they came from and who brought them to JERUSALEM?

do you know why it is called SPIRITUALLY Sodom & Egpyt?
yes because they also worship babylon just like any other nation,no difference.
They are part of babylon.And israel will serve babylon 70yrs.
 
Feb 14, 2011
1,783
4
0
In that day I will restore David's fallen tent
I will repair its broken places
restore its ruins
and build it as it used to be
So that they may possess the remnant of Edom
And all the nations that bear my name
declares the Lord who will do these things
The days are coming declares the Lord
When the reaper will be overtaken by the ploughman
and the planter by the one treading grapes
New wine will drip from the mlountains
And flow from the hills
I will bring back my exiled people Israel
They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them
They will plant vinyards and drink their wine
They will make gardens and eat their fruit
I will plant Israel in their own land
never again to be uprooted
from the land I have given them
says the Lord your God
Amos 9:11-15

This is whjat the Lord says
See I will beckon to the Gentiles
I will lift up my banner to the peoples
they will bring your sons in their arms
and carry your daughters on their shoulders
Kings will be your foster fathers
and their queens your nursing mothers
They will bow down before you with their faces to the ground
they will lick the dust at your feet
then you will know that I am the Lord
Isiaih 49:21-23

This is what the Lord says
In those days ten men from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say
Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you
Zech 8:23

Though I scatter them among thje peoples
yet in distant lands they will remember me
they and their children will survive
and they will return
I will bring them back from Egypt
and gather them from Assyria
I will bring them to Gilead and Lebanon
and there will not be room enough for them
Zech 10:9&10
This will be the 2nd gathering: now the first gathering in 1948.Jer16:14--21
thanks bro.
 
Feb 14, 2011
1,783
4
0
AnandaHya, Israel being righteous or not, has nothing to do with the promise God gave Israel, and that is Israel is His chosen people. Ez. 36:22-27

22)"Therefore say to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord God: "I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My Holy names's sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went.

So regardless of the pharisees and saducees whom Yeshua rebuke, God state clearly that in the last days He is going to restore His people, not because we deserve it, but because He promised it. If it weren't true than Israel would have never been reborn in 1948, for there would never had been a reason for Israel's restoration as a country. Shalom
Only the remnant, each generation there is a remnant resurved,by election.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
In that day I will restore David's fallen tent
I will repair its broken places
restore its ruins
and build it as it used to be
So that they may possess the remnant of Edom
And all the nations that bear my name
declares the Lord who will do these things
The days are coming declares the Lord
When the reaper will be overtaken by the ploughman
and the planter by the one treading grapes
New wine will drip from the mlountains
And flow from the hills
I will bring back my exiled people Israel
They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them
They will plant vinyards and drink their wine
They will make gardens and eat their fruit
I will plant Israel in their own land
never again to be uprooted
from the land I have given them
says the Lord your God
Amos 9:11-15

This is whjat the Lord says
See I will beckon to the Gentiles
I will lift up my banner to the peoples
they will bring your sons in their arms
and carry your daughters on their shoulders
Kings will be your foster fathers
and their queens your nursing mothers
They will bow down before you with their faces to the ground
they will lick the dust at your feet
then you will know that I am the Lord
Isiaih 49:21-23

This is what the Lord says
In those days ten men from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say
Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you
Zech 8:23

Though I scatter them among thje peoples
yet in distant lands they will remember me
they and their children will survive
and they will return
I will bring them back from Egypt
and gather them from Assyria
I will bring them to Gilead and Lebanon
and there will not be room enough for them
Zech 10:9&10
you know, i just spent awhile typing out about the children of israel's return from Babylon, the promises fulfilled and to be be fulfilled....but....it would all be head knowledge to know which prophets lived when and what they told of.

i have just one question of you LBG:

WHERE IS THE CHURCH?
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
Yeah, well... many "deceive themselves" by listening to others. In general, people don't believe as they do by prayer and spirit-led study with fasting. By and large, they are indoctrinated and taught within systems of doctrines. Few have an awareness and understanding of anything beyond their own assertions and assent.

Dispensationalism is just such a system. Trinitarianism is the King-Daddy of all such systems. The Calvi-Armi debate is a conflicting convergence of two systems. The list goes on endlessly.

As for wisdom, it would help to know WHAT it IS and ISN'T, and how to have it; and to know the difference between wisdom and knowledge and knowledge and knowledge. There are three distinct kinds of knowledge, and none are wisdom; prudence is different still.

Everyone's too busy "knowing" their "truths" to actually know much.

I'm a Continuationist, but the latest NAR regime has elevated the gifts above the Giver. Tongues would be the most ridiculously abused and misused practice in Christendom if it weren't trumped by all the self-appointed Prophets and the many "Prophet Schools", etc.
And so my first response to you stands.

Good by
 
Feb 14, 2011
1,783
4
0
Question(s)...

Since when is "Jew" a race?

And since when are Jews the only Semitic people?

And since when are today's residents of Israel "Jews"?


Oddly enough... supporting Israel makes one anti-Semitic by default, since those they oppose are themselves also Semitic. Pro-Israel or Anti-Israel is anti-Semitic.
ez16:3And say ,thus said the lord God unto jerusalem; your birth and your nativity is of the land of canaan; thy father was an amorite, and thy mother an hittite.
 
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
7
0
This will be the 2nd gathering: now the first gathering in 1948.Jer16:14--21
thanks bro.
For I should not brethren that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel(according to some this is not the nation of Israel I guess) until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in
And so all Israel shall be saved. as it is written. There shall come out of sion the deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob
For this is my covenant unto them when I shall take away their sins.
As concerning the Gospel, they are enemies for your sakes, but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers sake
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance
For as ye in times passed have not believed God, yet they have now obtained mercy through their unbelief
Even so these also now not believed, that through your mercy they may also obtain mercy
Rom 11:25-31