Eternal life

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

When do you get eternal life?

  • Now

    Votes: 9 56.3%
  • In the future

    Votes: 2 12.5%
  • Now and again in the future

    Votes: 5 31.3%
  • Unsure

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    16
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,680
113
#61
Absolutely.
However, I don't think enemies of the gospel deserve respect.

Disagreement in the church is natural.

That which is averse to the gospel from start to finish is not of the church.
When God judges that worthy of damnation, they're not worthy of respect by the church they work to sully with false teachings they boast they spread about.

When people have a bad opinion of our faith, actions like that are contributing factors.
You’re going to be better off blocking me if you don’t have the temperament for having respectful discussions with people. Actually, you’ll probably do well to use it liberally.

Im here every day and generally reply to most people. So if you go around slandering me, like you are here, which is not Christ like, I’ll probably respond with something.
 
N

notonmywatch

Guest
#62
Many errors occur due to the reasonings of men.
...you said before giving your own reasonings.
Look at the above argument.
Okay.
More specifically, eternal life, but, yes, it is.
Those in Him have it. Those without don't.
Correct.

John 3

36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Conclusion 1...as long as I have Christ, I have it.
Correct.
So I better keep myself in Christ.
We're told to abide in him in scripture, and that is with the help of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

1 John 2

24Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 26These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. 29If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Are you denying the Holy Spirit's ability to help us to abide in Christ as we yield to him?
It's a fair argument using only this text.
It's a fair argument using the entire Bible.
There are clearly in the bible other verses that seem to suggest the same thing. Some even suggest that we need to persevere to the end to attain it.
They don't just "SUGGEST the same thing". Instead, they flat out tell us the same thing, but a lot of people simply don't want to hear it.
So why is this wrong?
It isn't.
Quite simply, it's wrong because nothing we do will ever merit salvation.
So, salvation isn't a covenant between two parties? Christ died to purchase our salvation from sin, and now we are commanded to abide in him in order to walk free from sin. As Paul said in Romans 6, we were once servants or slaves to sin, and now God expects us to be servants or slaves to righteousness via the new birth. Does this mean that we'll never stumble? No. It's a sanctification process, but we should be growing into maturity in Christ daily while seeking cleansing via his blood if/when we take missteps along the way.
By the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
When did I say a single word about the works of the law? Never? That's what I thought.
This should make us all shout for joy. What I can't do for myself, God in Christ has done. I didn't put myself in Christ and I couldn't keep myself there if I wanted to. And even if I could, it wouldn't justify me. I would still be creating my own means of salvation.
No. You would actually be saved by being born again of God's Holy Spirit, and then by being holy as God is holy; even as he commands us to be under both covenants.
Why is it that someone believes God standard has changed.
It hasn't changed. He's always commanded us to be holy as he is holy, and such is attainable with the help of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Only perfect righteousness is acceptable to God. Do you realize how far our plumbline is from that standard. Sure, in Christ it is growing closer, but the chasm is too great for us. If you are trying to jump the Grand Canyon, will it make a difference if you formerly could jump 15 feet and now you can jump 25? Either way, you don't make it. Oh please, stop trying to jump a little farther, and just enjoy the One who jumped in your place.
In other words, we should just ignore such scriptural exhortations as this one?

1 John 3

6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Are you abiding in the true vine, Jesus Christ?

Is he a good vine or a bad vine?

We'll know a tree (or a vine) by its fruit.

Abide in Christ, and you'll be able to DO RIGHTEOUSNESS by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

It almost sounds as if you're denying Christ's atonement by making it insufficient to overcome what Adam's sin brought into this world.

If we've truly been born again, and if we truly and humbly rely on God's Holy Spirit for assistance, then we can truly walk in the manner in which God has always commanded us to walk.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,680
113
#63
Anyway, Mr. Wolf tried to derail the thread but I won’t keep feeding into it.

Here’s another eternal life passage and the context speaks into the future resurrection:

John 5
24“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

28“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. 30By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,680
113
#64
John 5
29and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Romans 2
7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,721
13,097
113
#65
Except the gospel isn't about giving the flesh immortal life.
Why did you use the term "the flesh" just to confuse everyone? Immortality (or mortality) pertains to the human body, and the bodies of the saints will indeed become immortal at the resurrection. They will never die and will not be subject to death, decay, or corruption. See 1 Corinthians 15.

As to eternal life it is God's GIFT to the one who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ. It is a present reality but will be evident in eternity, since the saints are presently subject to death..
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,277
983
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#66
.
FAQ: Do people in Hell have immortality?

REPLY: To my knowledge, folks in Hell are disembodied, i.e. they're clothed
with neither a mortal nor an immortal body.

FAQ: Do people in Hell have eternal life?

REPLY: Folks in Hell have a natural form of life, i.e. theirs is corruptible
whereas eternal life is immune to corruption; the reason being that eternal
life is the life of God: a flawless being who neither sins nor can be
tempted to sin. (cf. 2Pet 1:2-4)

FAQ: If so that people in Hell have neither immortality nor eternal life, then
how can it be possible their conscious suffering is perpetual?

REPLY: There is a level of human existence about which I know almost nothing.

For example: a window into the afterlife at Luke 16:19-31 portrays
Abraham with a bosom, Lazarus with a finger, and the rich man with a
tongue and an anxiety issue. Those are all human characteristics; yet those
men are deceased, i.e. though all three are dead, they continue to exist.

NOTE: If so that Abraham is alive unto God, then it must be so that the rich
is dead unto God. (Luke 10:37-38)
_
 
N

notonmywatch

Guest
#67
@Runningman

I haven't read all of your posts here, but it seems to me, and I could be terribly mistaken, so please forgive me if I am, that you're placing eternal life ONLY in the future. Personally, I definitely agree with you that we need to persevere in order to ultimately inherit eternal life, but I also believe that we can possess it right now as well.

For example, please consider what follows:

1 John 3

14We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. 15Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

As Christians, we can "KNOW that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren". In the overall context of 1 John, God is love, and if we are truly abiding in love, then we are abiding in God, and we have passed from death unto life. However, I fully believe that people can turn from both a love of God and a love of the brethren. so, again, it seems to me that it's something that we can presently possess, but we need to maintain it unto the end.

In contrast, "whosoever hates his brother is a murderer: and you know that no murderer has eternal life ABIDING IN HIM". By this contrast, it seems as if the one who loves his brother currently has "eternal life ABIDING IN HIM" whereas the one who hates his brother does not. Again, I believe that one can turn or depart from the same, but I also believe that it is something that we can currently possess. After all, how can we maintain something or persevere in it if we never possessed it in the first place?

Anyway, if I misread or misinterpreted your actual beliefs at this time, then it wasn't intentional, and I am sorry.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,974
5,620
113
62
#68
...you said before giving your own reasonings.
Okay.
More specifically, eternal life, but, yes, it is.
Correct.

John 3

36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Correct.
We're told to abide in him in scripture, and that is with the help of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

1 John 2

24Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 26These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. 29If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Are you denying the Holy Spirit's ability to help us to abide in Christ as we yield to him?
It's a fair argument using the entire Bible.
They don't just "SUGGEST the same thing". Instead, they flat out tell us the same thing, but a lot of people simply don't want to hear it.
It isn't.
So, salvation isn't a covenant between two parties? Christ died to purchase our salvation from sin, and now we are commanded to abide in him in order to walk free from sin. As Paul said in Romans 6, we were once servants or slaves to sin, and now God expects us to be servants or slaves to righteousness via the new birth. Does this mean that we'll never stumble? No. It's a sanctification process, but we should be growing into maturity in Christ daily while seeking cleansing via his blood if/when we take missteps along the way.
When did I say a single word about the works of the law? Never? That's what I thought.
No. You would actually be saved by being born again of God's Holy Spirit, and then by being holy as God is holy; even as he commands us to be under both covenants.
It hasn't changed. He's always commanded us to be holy as he is holy, and such is attainable with the help of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
In other words, we should just ignore such scriptural exhortations as this one?

1 John 3

6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Are you abiding in the true vine, Jesus Christ?

Is he a good vine or a bad vine?

We'll know a tree (or a vine) by its fruit.

Abide in Christ, and you'll be able to DO RIGHTEOUSNESS by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

It almost sounds as if you're denying Christ's atonement by making it insufficient to overcome what Adam's sin brought into this world.

If we've truly been born again, and if we truly and humbly rely on God's Holy Spirit for assistance, then we can truly walk in the manner in which God has always commanded us to walk.
Sure we abide, just not as a condition for salvation. I believe in the complete sufficiency of Christ for salvation and the ongoing work of the Holy Spirit to keep me abiding in Christ.
Abiding in Christ is not the same thing as being in Christ. We are placed into Christ. It is an action God does. Abiding in Christ is a joint venture as Philippians 2:12-13 speaks of. We work out what God works in.
It might be good to share another verse here.

1 Corinthians 4:7...Who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as though thou hadst not received it?

All that we have is of God. Our realization of things, our understanding, our ability to perform...even our desire to do so. God is much robbed of glory, even by those who He has inclined to Himself.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,680
113
#69
@Runningman

I haven't read all of your posts here, but it seems to me, and I could be terribly mistaken, so please forgive me if I am, that you're placing eternal life ONLY in the future. Personally, I definitely agree with you that we need to persevere in order to ultimately inherit eternal life, but I also believe that we can possess it right now as well.

For example, please consider what follows:

1 John 3

14We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. 15Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

As Christians, we can "KNOW that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren". In the overall context of 1 John, God is love, and if we are truly abiding in love, then we are abiding in God, and we have passed from death unto life. However, I fully believe that people can turn from both a love of God and a love of the brethren. so, again, it seems to me that it's something that we can presently possess, but we need to maintain it unto the end.

In contrast, "whosoever hates his brother is a murderer: and you know that no murderer has eternal life ABIDING IN HIM". By this contrast, it seems as if the one who loves his brother currently has "eternal life ABIDING IN HIM" whereas the one who hates his brother does not. Again, I believe that one can turn or depart from the same, but I also believe that it is something that we can currently possess. After all, how can we maintain something or persevere in it if we never possessed it in the first place?

Anyway, if I misread or misinterpreted your actual beliefs at this time, then it wasn't intentional, and I am sorry.
I believe it’s now and again in the future.

I wanted to pointed this out because I haven’t seen it really talked about. A future eternal life is something everyone in the New Testament talked about more than the present eternal life.

We can have eternal life now, but if eternal life in the future was the same, then I don’t think they would have mentioned it so often. The future eternal life is something to be strived for and I see it as distinctly different than the present eternal life.

believe to have eternal life now. Persevere to get eternal life later.
 
N

notonmywatch

Guest
#70
Sure we abide, just not as a condition for salvation. I believe in the complete sufficiency of Christ for salvation and the ongoing work of the Holy Spirit to keep me abiding in Christ.
Abiding in Christ is not the same thing as being in Christ. We are placed into Christ. It is an action God does. Abiding in Christ is a joint venture as Philippians 2:12-13 speaks of. We work out what God works in.
It might be good to share another verse here.

1 Corinthians 4:7...Who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as though thou hadst not received it?

All that we have is of God. Our realization of things, our understanding, our ability to perform...even our desire to do so. God is much robbed of glory, even by those who He has inclined to Himself.
How is it robbing God of glory if we are holy as he is holy by the Holy Spirit which he gave us when we got born again?

Christians can either yield to the Holy Spirit or they can do such things as grieve him, resist him, and even despise him. I could easily quote you verses which say as much, but I trust that you're already familiar with them.

Anyway, my point is that we not only can be holy and righteous by the power of God's Holy Spirit, but we are actually commanded to be such. Without holiness, no man is going to see the Lord.

2 Corinthians 6

17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

2 Corinthians 7

1Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,680
113
#71
I believe it’s now and again in the future.

I wanted to pointed this out because I haven’t seen it really talked about. A future eternal life is something everyone in the New Testament talked about more than the present eternal life.

We can have eternal life now, but if eternal life in the future was the same, then I don’t think they would have mentioned it so often. The future eternal life is something to be strived for and I see it as distinctly different than the present eternal life.

believe to have eternal life now. Persevere to get eternal life later.
And to add to that. This future eternal life is why they said to persist in doing good. It’s for the resurrection I think.

John 5
29and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Romans 2
7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
 
N

notonmywatch

Guest
#72
I believe it’s now and again in the future.

I wanted to pointed this out because I haven’t seen it really talked about. A future eternal life is something everyone in the New Testament talked about more than the present eternal life.

We can have eternal life now, but if eternal life in the future was the same, then I don’t think they would have mentioned it so often. The future eternal life is something to be strived for and I see it as distinctly different than the present eternal life.

believe to have eternal life now. Persevere to get eternal life later.
Thanks for the clarification.

I get what you're saying, but I wouldn't necessarily say that they are distinctly different. Yes, we need to persevere to get eternal life later, but we're persevering in the eternal life which we currently possess. In that sense, they're pretty much the same thing. Again, it's maintaining or persevering in something that we already possess. I definitely don't believe in OSAS, btw.
 

SonLight_Wolf

Active member
Jan 14, 2023
205
66
28
#73
Why did you use the term "the flesh" just to confuse everyone? Immortality (or mortality) pertains to the human body, and the bodies of the saints will indeed become immortal at the resurrection. They will never die and will not be subject to death, decay, or corruption. See 1 Corinthians 15.

As to eternal life it is God's GIFT to the one who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ. It is a present reality but will be evident in eternity, since the saints are presently subject to death..
1 Corinthians 15:50
Now I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

God says when we die the silver cord is broken. The flesh returns to the dust from which it sprang and the soul to God who gave it.

This in part is why Jewish Talmudic traditional burials feature a simple pine casket with holes drilled in its bottom to assure return to the earth more readily.

Do you believe Jesus is flesh and blood in heaven today?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,974
5,620
113
62
#75
How is it robbing God of glory if we are holy as he is holy by the Holy Spirit which he gave us when we got born again?

Christians can either yield to the Holy Spirit or they can do such things as grieve him, resist him, and even despise him. I could easily quote you verses which say as much, but I trust that you're already familiar with them.

Anyway, my point is that we not only can be holy and righteous by the power of God's Holy Spirit, but we are actually commanded to be such. Without holiness, no man is going to see the Lord.

2 Corinthians 6

17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

2 Corinthians 7

1Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
I appreciate all that you have shared. What I'm saying is that it is all God. Yes, He does it in conjunction with us, but it all Him. It's all been received of Him. You have nothing of yourself. And even your increasing desire for Him is being produced in you by Him as you spend time in His presence and are changed from glory to glory.
We can do nothing apart from Him.
I didn't mean to imply that either you or anyone else is deliberately robbing God of glory. But anything of us isn't of God. This was Paul's argument concerning Abraham in Romans 4.
Let's look at the verse above...2 Corinthians 7:1...let us cleanse ourselves...
How do we do this? How do we cleanse ourselves? How do we get to the bottom of our hearts...the seat of our imperfections...and make it holy?
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,277
983
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#77
.
Do you believe Jesus is flesh and blood in heaven today?

The chemistry of Jesus' glorified body is currently unknown. However his
body is known to be capable of dining upon ordinary foods and beverages.

Matthew 26:29 . . I tell you: I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from
now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom.

Luke 22:15-16 . . I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you
before I suffer. For I tell you: I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in
the kingdom of God.

Luke 22:28-30 . .You are the ones that have stuck with me in my trials;
and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant
with me, for a kingdom, that you may eat and drink at my table in my
kingdom
_
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,721
13,097
113
#78
Do you believe Jesus is flesh and blood in heaven today?
How about flesh and bones (Luke 24:39? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
 

SonLight_Wolf

Active member
Jan 14, 2023
205
66
28
#79
How about flesh and bones (Luke 24:39? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
You believe he is flesh and blood human in heaven?

Why did he tell the Magdalene not to cling to him because he'd not yet ascended to his father? Telling her to go to his brothers and say to them, that he is ascending to his Father and and her Father, to his God and her God.
 
Oct 15, 2022
99
22
8
#80
Eternal Life is simply another name for the New Heavens and New Earth.

Eternal Life is a *location*, not a state of being.

Mark 10:30
"But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life."


And there we have it. The 'World to come' is Eternal Life.