Eternal Security - Most dangerous words ever preached: Once saved, always saved.

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Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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By definition eternal life is ETERNAL. So how can it be lost? It is a present reality as well as a future guarantee. Otherwise it is not eternal life, but temporary life.
I will take the time to answer you because you seem like someone who really cares about what Scripture actually says. If you want to believe in OSAS at least base it from Scripture, not from time-worn repeated unscriptural statements.

Eternal life is not defined what by you (or I) think it is. John 17: 3 defines it as: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." By that definition it is clear that if one does not know God they do not have "eternal life".

And of course eternal life means we will be with Jesus in heaven forever. But this idea that if "eternal life" can be lost, then it is not eternal, but temporary life - that idea is just not true. Just because a person loses "eternal life" does not negate the fact that to know Jesus Christ is "eternal life". Eternal life is eternal life whether you have it or don't have it: whether you lose it or gain it, etc.


The real issue that faces those who do not believe that eternal life is eternal is that they do no really understand (1) the grace of God (2) who Christ is and (3) the finished work of Christ.

Christ Himself is Eternal Life (John 11:25; 1 John 1:2) and the Holy Spirit Himself is Eternal Life. So when God gives the Holy Spirit and Christ to a believing sinner, He gives him the GIFT of eternal life. And any gift which God gives, He does not take back because "The gifts and calling or God are without repentance". (without a change of mind or a reversal)
Here you quote Romans 11:29 as a general truth principle and then tie it to verses that call salvation a "gift" to back up a doctrinal statement. I do not think that in the context of Romans 11 that is at all what Paul is trying to say. Now you may interpret that way if you want, but I reiterate my plea: if you want to believe in OSAS - find a verse that actually states it (rather than beginning with the doctrine of OSAS and then finding it in the NT).

But to insure that the gift of eternal life is eternal, the Holy Spirit regenerates the sinner, and then "seals" the saint by baptizing him into the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:13). And the New Birth is IRREVERSIBLE. Just like a human baby cannot be unborn, a child of God cannot be unborn. But he can be spanked.
Another oft-repeated OSAS argument - once you are born - you cannot be unborn - Where does the Bible say that?
In actuality, we are all born "in Adam" but at our new birth we are now "in Christ" - so as Christians our birth credentials have already been changed once!
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
It's not, then you are wasting a lot of posts trying to tell me how it is going to be. I am not going to waste my time on one who is being so evasive. If you examined John 3:16, then give me your in depth conclusion. Please, a conclusion that is longer than one sentence. I am willing to listen to you in earnest, give me something.
Post 572 on this thread.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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Wow I am so amazed that people call grace doctrine a doctrine of works

I am also sick of people calling me Arminian and a worker for. Both of which are false

I reject 5 point tulip and 5 point Arminianism

I am also sick of being told because I feel I was justified by faith alone and not by any work I did that I am a worker 4 and reject true grace

If you are not going to discuss this but just belittle the person who is trying to have a conversation with you and make false accusation and insist I believe something that is not true i will cut this off right now. Because there is no need to discuss something with someone who Can not hear

If you want to have a discussion let me know

I refuse to respond to anything that starts off like this especially when it is a false assumption of what I believe so I have not even ready anything else you wrote, if you can not start with a knowledge of what I believe then anything you said is probably wrong anyway because context of what your saying is wrong .
Well-written response - !!!!!! (y)
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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Wow I am so amazed that people call grace doctrine a doctrine of works

I am also sick of people calling me Arminian and a worker for. Both of which are false

I reject 5 point tulip and 5 point Arminianism

I am also sick of being told because I feel I was justified by faith alone and not by any work I did that I am a worker 4 and reject true grace

If you are not going to discuss this but just belittle the person who is trying to have a conversation with you and make false accusation and insist I believe something that is not true i will cut this off right now. Because there is no need to discuss something with someone who Can not hear

If you want to have a discussion let me know.

I refuse to respond to anything that starts off like this especially when it is a false assumption of what I believe so I have not even ready anything else you wrote, if you can not start with a knowledge of what I believe then anything you said is probably wrong anyway because context of what your saying is wrong .
Wait a minute, I NEVER called or would ever call "GRACE" a doctrine of works. Where did that come from?

I was talking in general about the battle raging over "Free Grace vs "Free Will" , I did not label you an Arminian, you labeled yourself apparently. Just now.

You said, "If you want to have a discussion let me know."

I gave you a good, sound response in the post. Are you not going to answer?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Wait a minute, I NEVER called or would ever call "GRACE" a doctrine of works. Where did that come from?

I was talking in general about the battle raging over "Free Grace vs "Free Will" , I did not label you an Arminian, you labeled yourself apparently. Just now.

You said, "If you want to have a discussion let me know."

I gave you a good, sound response in the post. Are you not going to answer?
Lol what a joke. There is no need to even mention those things unless you were accusing me of them. I was not born yesterday

Maybe you need to Go back to my post and try again And this time not make such remarks

Your not the first one I have discussed this with
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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Well-written response - !!!!!! (y)
Lol what a joke. There is no need to even mention those things unless you were accusing me of them. I was not born yesterday

Maybe you need to Go back to my post and try again And this time not make such remarks

Your not the first one I have discussed this with
Since I tried to smooth things over with you, I find your second response very unfortunate. I must also say very thinned skinned. Are you angry because of the label, as you claim or because of what I said doctrinally. Your response does not strike me as one out of love in Christ. So be it, let the Lord be my judge.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Since I tried to smooth things over with you, I find your second response very unfortunate. I must also say very thinned skinned. Are you angry because of the label, as you claim or because of what I said doctrinally. Your response does not strike me as one out of love in Christ. So be it, let the Lord be my judge.
once again look at your original response to me. You did not ask questions you made remarks. The same remarks I may add that a lot of you people make

I am not angry at all. I just refuse to be pulled into another fight with someone who has no desire to discuss the word but only wants to do like you continue to fo

So are you going to discuss it should I put you on ignore with the rest of the people who can not sit and have a civilized discussion?
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
It's not, then you are wasting a lot of posts trying to tell me how it is going to be. I am not going to waste my time on one who is being so evasive. If you examined John 3:16, then give me your in depth conclusion. Please, a conclusion that is longer than one sentence. I am willing to listen to you in earnest, give me something.
Post 572 on this thread.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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once again look at your original response to me. You did not ask questions you made remarks. The same remarks I may add that a lot of you people make

I am not angry at all. I just refuse to be pulled into another fight with someone who has no desire to discuss the word but only wants to do like you continue to fo

So are you going to discuss it should I put you on ignore with the rest of the people who can not sit and have a civilized discussion?
Who are you talking about when you said, "The same remarks I may add that a lot of you people make". Who are you people?
 
May 31, 2020
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To think we need something other than what God has provided for us in Christ and His atoning work at Calvary, is to tell God, “The Cross was not enough.” Until the Church returns to faith in the Cross alone, there will be no repentance granted, for repentance can only take place as one acknowledges the Truth (2 Timothy 2:24-26), which is Jesus Christ and Him Crucified.
I concur with your first sentence. As far as your second sentence, are you suggesting the majority of Christians look beyond the Cross for redemption?
 
May 31, 2020
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I will always discuss the Word of God in a polite and thoughtful manner, as long as the other person shows true sincerity for the Word and approaches it with a good spirit and an open mind.
Another lie from our new heretic. I answered your questions in good faith but you punked out in an impolite manner on having any further discourse with me.

You stated yourself that calvinism is the most hated doctrine of “grace”. Perhaps it’s time you pull your head out of the sand and realize why it is so hated. But alas poor Yorick, you won’t because your pride stands in the way.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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I concur with your first sentence. As far as your second sentence, are you suggesting the majority of Christians look beyond the Cross for redemption?
If we are not trusting in the Cross alone, we die. All who turn to anything except the cross, they die. They don't die physically, nor do they lose their souls immediately. In other words they are walking in a place where they are no longer drawing the Grace of God (Gal. 2:21, Gal. 5:4). This is why a saved Apostle Paul said, HE DIED! Romans 7:9

If you leave the Cross, you enter death; separation!
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
Who are you talking about when you said, "The same remarks I may add that a lot of you people make". Who are you people?
Maybe he means people who come with a dogma in hand, stating they want to discuss... but really they want promote their special dogma being a hated truth the few will accept. :unsure:
 
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I am proud to call John MacArthur a true friend in Christ and I knew W. E Best for many years before he went on to be with the Lord.
Your friendships are meaningless if you’re not friends with Jesus Christ. And since you knowingly attempt to shut out the Kingdom of God by disenfranchising people with your heretical dogma then you are most definitely no friend of His.
 
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If we are not trusting in the Cross alone, we die. All who turn to anything except the cross, they die. They don't die physically, nor do they lose their souls immediately. In other words they are walking in a place where they are no longer drawing the Grace of God (Gal. 2:21, Gal. 5:4). This is why a saved Apostle Paul said, HE DIED! Romans 7:9

If you leave the Cross, you enter death; separation!
Again I concur but again I ask you, do you believe the majority of Christians are looking beyond the Cross for redemption?
 
Sep 3, 2016
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If we are not trusting in the Cross alone, we die. All who turn to anything except the cross, they die. They don't die physically, nor do they lose their souls immediately. In other words they are walking in a place where they are no longer drawing the Grace of God (Gal. 2:21, Gal. 5:4). This is why a saved Apostle Paul said, HE DIED! Romans 7:9

If you leave the Cross, you enter death; separation!
Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ will never leave us, nor forsake us...but we can leave Him. And most have (Matthew 7:14).
 
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Again I concur but again I ask you, do you believe the majority of Christians are looking beyond the Cross for redemption?
Not for Salvation, but sanctification they are blinded.

The answers on this form is; we must go beyond the Cross - the Cross has never done anything for me, but Jesus has - we must add the Resurrection to the Cross.
 
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Not for Salvation, but sanctification they are blinded.

The answers on this form is; we must go beyond the Cross - the Cross has never done anything for me, but Jesus has - we must add the Resurrection to the Cross.
The real religious ones say, "that's the Jimmy Swaggart fake gospel."
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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Post 572 on this thread.
I am not really responding to any particular post herein. Just want to raise a few questions and then let Scripture speak.

Is not the purpose of a discussion to eventually come to some sort of conclusion? Are is it to just discuss for discussions sake?

I don't believe there can be "Eternal Security" if SALVATION is NOT all of God. There is no eternal security if it is God plus something else. This would mean Salvation is left in the hands of fallible men. It would also mean, man has something to boast about.

(Rom 3:27) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
(Jer 23:32) Behold, I am against them that prophesy lying dreams, saith Jehovah, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their vain boasting: yet I sent them not, nor commanded them; neither do they profit this people at all, saith Jehovah.

God plus something else, might even be construed as a work. Faith spoken of in the Bible is not regular human faith. We all possess that. Human faith believes that a chair will hold me up when I sit down. That when I go to sleep I will wake up in the morning. That the sun will rise in the east. These are a few examples of human faith BUT the faith of Scripture that lays hold of Christ as Savior, is a special faith. A GOD GIVEN FAITH, that clearly sees Christ for who he is. This GOD GIVEN FAITH is imparted in the NEW BIRTH. Only in this way can one truly have "Eternal Security".

Many on this forum have hounded me about John 3:16 and some have asked questions like "When does ALL mean ALL?".

Most of the time in Scripture ALL does mean ALL but sometimes it is limited in it's scope. Ex. when Scripture says in (Mat 3:5) Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,. Obviously, not every man, woman and child from these regions went out, rather we understand that individuals in large numbers went out from these regions. To understand this in any other way would be foolish and impractical.

Perhaps the better question would be, when does the Scripture mean Chosen, Many and few?

I have a few things to say, then I will let Scripture talk for itself. We know that God CHOSE a people for Himself out of the whole world. This people were the Jews, the nation of Israel. Not because of what they had done to merit it but because He chose to do it. He is God, He does as he pleases. We also know that God is the one who shut Noah and the other seven in to the Ark of safety. Noah did not shut himself into it. (Gen 7:16) And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in. By way of understanding, God closed Salvation and everyone else was locked out. Only the eight would be saved.

Give serious thought to this for a moment. Out of the whole worlds population only eight were saved. This is a thought that should linger with us and cause us to tremble in fear before the Sovereign God of all creation.

We also know, that out of Sodom and Gomorrah only a few were saved and one of them was an unbeliever whose HEART was not on their Savior but longed for what she had left behind. Lot's wife. She looked back, which is understood as longing for her old home, rather than longing for where God was taking them.

So let's now look at what Scripture has to say about chosen, many and few:

First the word chosen:

(1Sa 10:24) And Samuel said to all the people, See ye him whom the LORD hath chosen, that there is none like him among all the people? And all the people shouted, and said, God save the king.
(Psa 33:12) Blessed is the nation whose God is Jehovah, The people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.
(Psa 89:3) I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant:

This prophecy needs our full attention. It's very same principles are carried out in the New Testament:

(Isa 43:7-10) Every one that is called by my name, and whom I have created for my glory, whom I have formed, yea, whom I have made. Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears. Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the peoples be assembled: who among them can declare this, and show us former things? let them bring their witnesses, that they may be justified; or let them hear, and say, It is truth. Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

(Mat 22:14) For many are called, but few chosen.
(Joh 15:16) Ye did not choose me, but I chose you, and appointed you, that ye should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should abide: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
(Act 1:2) until the day in which he was received up, after that he had given commandment through the Holy Spirit unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
(1Co 1:26, 27) For behold your calling, brethren, that not many wise after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put to shame them that are wise; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put to shame the things that are strong;
(Eph 1:4) even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:
(Rev 17:14) These shall war against the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them, for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings; and they also shall overcome that are with him, called and chosen and faithful.


Now let's look at the word many:

(Mat 7:13) Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby.
(Mat 20:28) even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
(Mat 22:9) Go ye therefore unto the partings of the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage feast.

This parable Mat. 22:1-14, should be closely studied. It indicates the work of the Holy Spirit, in bidding those who thought they had no hope because they were outside of the covenant nation of Israel.

(Mat 24:5) For many shall come in my name, saying, I am the Christ; and shall lead many astray.
(Mat 26:28) for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many unto remission of sins.
(Luk 1:16) And many of the children of Israel shall he turn unto the Lord their God.
(Luk 9:5) And as many as receive you not, when ye depart from that city, shake off the dust from your feet for a testimony against them.
(Luk 13:24) Strive to enter in by the narrow door: for many, I say unto you, shall seek to enter in, and shall not be able.


The following needs to be studied together and contains the answer of who the ones are who are believing in John 3:16:

(Joh 1:11-13) He came unto his own, and they that were his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (There went the whole concept of man's will having anything to do with Salvation).

(Act 2:39) For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.
(Rom 8:14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
(Rev 3:19) As many as I love, I reprove and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.


Now let's look at the word few:

(Mat 7:14) For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it.
(Mat 22:14) For many are called, but few chosen.

This one should be studied closely:

(Luke 13:23-27) And one said unto him, Lord, are they few that are saved? And he said unto them, Strive to enter in by the narrow door: for many, I say unto you, shall seek to enter in, and shall not be able. When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, open to us; and he shall answer and say to you, I know you not who ye are; then shall ye begin to say, We did eat and drink in thy presence, and thou didst teach in our streets; and he shall say, I tell you, I know not who ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

So few is not used many times in regards to anything about Salvation. I suspect, many here, will gloss over this evidence because it does not conform to their beliefs. Simply, that Salvation is ALL of GOD. It is a totally unmerited choice made by God. Administered on many who will believe, through the agency of the Holy Spirit. A truth of Scripture only a few comprehend and are convicted of.

Again, I ask the question, in regards to "Eternal Security":

Did Jesus Christ die for the sins of all and then fail to bring all into the Ark of Salvation or did Jesus Christ die for some (the elect), and will bring all that the Father gave to Him in the Covenant of Redemption, before the world began?