Eternal Security - Most dangerous words ever preached: Once saved, always saved.

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Sep 3, 2016
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Thank God His grace is sufficient.
Question I asked Pastor Curtis:
Bible study question? If the Believer is frustrating grace by their Faith being misplace; by not placing and maintaining their Faith exclusively in Christ and Him Crucified - will grace continue to much more abound over sin in the life of a Believer?

Pastor Curtis answer:
No sir I do not believe that it will according to Gal 1:6, 5:1-4 and other scriptures. The word “frustrate” means to deny or to set aside. Grace only takes place “through faith”. Grace is God doing something in, for, to or through someone through their faith. Hope this helps.

To think we need something other than what God has provided for us in Christ and His atoning work at Calvary, is to tell God, “The Cross was not enough.” Until the Church returns to faith in the Cross alone, there will be no repentance granted, for repentance can only take place as one acknowledges the Truth (2 Timothy 2:24-26), which is Jesus Christ and Him Crucified.

Take heed to what is being said.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Hi...
Thank you for taking time to explain to my question , and I am seeing these things for myself as I study deeper...
The Scripture in John 10:16 says also
I have other sheep, too, that are not in this sheepfold. I must bring them also. They will listen to my voice, and there will be one flock with one shepherd.

Are these us Gentiles who have and are being called by God ? , I believe so...
...xox...
Amen. I believe so also!
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
Also, in this verse, note where our Lord said, "....the Father who sent me DRAW him..." (In the greek text, the word translated "draw" is "elkusn". This word carries the meaning of: To lay hold of, to pull or drag.) This is where the New Birth comes in. It is the Holy Spirit that leads us into repentance and the Truth of Jesus Christ.

I am just wondering why God called salvation a gift if we need to be dragged to accept. Is it really a gift then. NO a gift is received.


Romans 5:18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

I am also wondering when all means all?
Because if "many" is exclusively true then "all" must be exclusively true?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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But then if we believe in OSAS, then we must say that eternal life cannot be lost: (and Scripture never says that) and so our theology dictates how we interpret Scripture.
By definition eternal life is ETERNAL. So how can it be lost? It is a present reality as well as a future guarantee. Otherwise it is not eternal life, but temporary life.

The real issue that faces those who do not believe that eternal life is eternal is that they do no really understand (1) the grace of God (2) who Christ is and (3) the finished work of Christ.

Christ Himself is Eternal Life (John 11:25; 1 John 1:2) and the Holy Spirit Himself is Eternal Life. So when God gives the Holy Spirit and Christ to a believing sinner, He gives him the GIFT of eternal life. And any gift which God gives, He does not take back because "The gifts and calling or God are without repentance". (without a change of mind or a reversal)

But to insure that the gift of eternal life is eternal, the Holy Spirit regenerates the sinner, and then "seals" the saint by baptizing him into the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:13). And the New Birth is IRREVERSIBLE. Just like a human baby cannot be unborn, a child of God cannot be unborn. But he can be spanked.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
Now again, our Lord makes it clear, that He has a particular group in mind, He knows them, they know Him and most importantly, He is dying for them and not for the whole world. This is only one area of Scripture that states this great and hated truth by those of the world that can't hear His voice.
For your information..... this is in direct opposition to scripture and outside of Christian Orthodoxy.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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So much wrong here I do not even know where to begin.

1. you stated that god planned to redeem fallen man, well of course, as scripture says even when we were sinners, Christ died for us (you even mocked dusky when he said Christ died for sinners, (sinful world) and said Your conversation was done, it was done, it was done because you have an issue with Christ dieting for sinners,
2. you left out the part in John 6: where Jesus said it is the will of the father that whoever sees and believes has eternal life, you love to remind us how no one can come unless God draws. And we all agree, without Gods intervention and help, no one would be saved, but you leave out that it takes faith in him to fulfill The will of the father
3. you also like to leave part of John 3 out, Jesus makes it clear who those are that are saved, those who BELIEVE, they will never died but live forever, as he said , Jesus was not sent to the world (of sinners) to judge it, but to save it, and who would be saved? Whoever BELIeVES is not condemned, but whoever does NOT BELIEVE is condemned already. He was sent to the whole world and died for them (sinners) but only those who believe are saved, in John 3 4 and 6 what is the common theme. Believe, ask and it shall be given, eat the bread of life.

it looks like you new here, I would recommend you cut back the attitude, and stop with the silly belittling comments and all, if you want to discuss the word, let’s do it (this is a bible DISCUSSION forum, if you want to shove your belief down everyone’s throat and belittle and attack those who disagree with you, your not in the right place

of course, the final question is have you been here before under another Nick?
Wow, I am never ceased to be amazed, how when this most hated doctrine of Grace Salvation comes into the light how the Armenians always want to shove it into darkness. However, this battle of "Free Grace vs Free will" has been raging for centuries and will rage until the end of time. The Free Grace side has been waged by men like, John Calvin, Arthur W. Pink and John Gill of old and more recently by men like, R. C. Sproul, John MacArthur and W. E Best. So it is not just I who tries to keep this great truth alive, for the Glory of our Lord.

If I am trying to "shove my belief" then what are you doing by attacking it... "So much wrong here...." Why is it that those that back "free will" are free to do whatever they want but to defend "Free Grace" is always shoving something down someones throat?

As to your first point, it wasn't in the discussion you were replying to, this was in a much earlier reply to dusky, you did not give proper context. I asked the question,... Did God love the fallen, sinful world?... This question needed some deep thought to answer and see what I was getting at. The answer is NO. Why? God did NOT love the fall, even though He knew Adam was going to fall before He created him. God did not love SIN, since all sin is against God. Therefore, God could not love the world in it's present state, where all of creation was tainted and all of mankind would have to be condemned. Therefore, God put forth a plan to redeem sinners. A plan that would eventually destroy sin, once and for all.

As to your second point, I left out "whoever sees and believes....." because it is understood that the ones seeing and believing are one and the same. Let's take a look:

(John 6:37) All that which the Father giveth me shall come unto me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
All that the father gave to Christ are the Elect of God.

(John 6:39) And this is the will of him that sent me, that of all that which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
Again the ones being raised up in the last days are the ones the Father gave to Christ.

(John 6:40) For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
All three verses are in the will of the Father and in the immediate context. Therefore, it is only reasonable to conclude, that the ones beholding the Son and believing are the ones that the Father gave to Christ, otherwise, verses 37, should of read something like this:

All that which the Father is giving me shall come to me; and him that is coming to me, ALONG WITH ANYONE ELSE WHO MIGHT BELIEVE, I will in no wise cast out. Forgive me Lord, for such foolishness as to play with your Word.

In addition to this point, I raise a question. If this view point is so wrong, then explain to me why in verses 37&39 our Lord is placing such an obvious restriction on whom is coming to Him?

As to the third point, I did explain this in the earlier post. I think my point was clear. However I do have another question. What did the Lord mean when he said, "...whoever does not believe is condemned already"?

Finally, I am new to this site but I have been studying and teaching the Word of God for over 30 years. I will always discuss the Word of God in a polite and thoughtful manner, as long as the other person shows true sincerity for the Word and approaches it with a good spirit and an open mind. But this is Scripture we are talking about, we are not discussing last nights political debate or the sports. If a person is spouting heresy, I will call it down! I fear God more than man.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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For your information..... this is in direct opposition to scripture and outside of Christian Orthodoxy.
No, it is not outside of Christian orthodoxy as you liked to call it. In theological terms it is called: "Particular Redemption".

It is based on Scripture, just as Armenians believe there view is. It follows this premise in a form of a question:

Did Christ die for everyone BUT failed to bring everyone into the Arc of Salvation or did Christ die for a particular number and will successfully bring all of them into the arc of Salvation.

Can you answer this question without doing harm to God's Holiness, Justice, Sovereignty and Power?
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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How wonderful, to see someone excepting the Word of God as it is written. His Word is plain, as long as, we can leave our humanism and prejudice at the curb. God will reveal all things to those who search and approach Him with a sincere heart.

Yes, Yes... the other sheep are the gentiles, that is why they are not of that fold. (the Jews)
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
No, it is not outside of Christian orthodoxy as you liked to call it. In theological terms it is called: "Particular Redemption".

It is based on Scripture, just as Armenians believe there view is. It follows this premise in a form of a question:

Did Christ die for everyone BUT failed to bring everyone into the Arc of Salvation or did Christ die for a particular number and will successfully bring all of them into the arc of Salvation.

Can you answer this question without doing harm to God's Holiness, Justice, Sovereignty and Power?
The fact that men fail to accept, receive the free gift of salvation does no harm to the attributes of God.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
Wow, I am never ceased to be amazed, how when this most hated doctrine of Grace Salvation comes into the light how the Armenians always want to shove it into darkness. However, this battle of "Free Grace vs Free will" has been raging for centuries and will rage until the end of time. The Free Grace side has been waged by men like, John Calvin, Arthur W. Pink and John Gill of old and more recently by men like, R. C. Sproul, John MacArthur and W. E Best. So it is not just I who tries to keep this great truth alive, for the Glory of our Lord.

If I am trying to "shove my belief" then what are you doing by attacking it... "So much wrong here...." Why is it that those that back "free will" are free to do whatever they want but to defend "Free Grace" is always shoving something down someones throat?

As to your first point, it wasn't in the discussion you were replying to, this was in a much earlier reply to dusky, you did not give proper context. I asked the question,... Did God love the fallen, sinful world?... This question needed some deep thought to answer and see what I was getting at. The answer is NO. Why? God did NOT love the fall, even though He knew Adam was going to fall before He created him. God did not love SIN, since all sin is against God. Therefore, God could not love the world in it's present state, where all of creation was tainted and all of mankind would have to be condemned. Therefore, God put forth a plan to redeem sinners. A plan that would eventually destroy sin, once and for all.

As to your second point, I left out "whoever sees and believes....." because it is understood that the ones seeing and believing are one and the same. Let's take a look:

(John 6:37) All that which the Father giveth me shall come unto me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
All that the father gave to Christ are the Elect of God.

(John 6:39) And this is the will of him that sent me, that of all that which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
Again the ones being raised up in the last days are the ones the Father gave to Christ.

(John 6:40) For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
All three verses are in the will of the Father and in the immediate context. Therefore, it is only reasonable to conclude, that the ones beholding the Son and believing are the ones that the Father gave to Christ, otherwise, verses 37, should of read something like this:

All that which the Father is giving me shall come to me; and him that is coming to me, ALONG WITH ANYONE ELSE WHO MIGHT BELIEVE, I will in no wise cast out. Forgive me Lord, for such foolishness as to play with your Word.

In addition to this point, I raise a question. If this view point is so wrong, then explain to me why in verses 37&39 our Lord is placing such an obvious restriction on whom is coming to Him?

As to the third point, I did explain this in the earlier post. I think my point was clear. However I do have another question. What did the Lord mean when he said, "...whoever does not believe is condemned already"?

Finally, I am new to this site but I have been studying and teaching the Word of God for over 30 years. I will always discuss the Word of God in a polite and thoughtful manner, as long as the other person shows true sincerity for the Word and approaches it with a good spirit and an open mind. But this is Scripture we are talking about, we are not discussing last nights political debate or the sports. If a person is spouting heresy, I will call it down! I fear God more than man.
The teachers you mentioned are far from "free grace" most teach irresistible grace, another dogma like limited atonement not found in scripture.

I am still waiting for a response to my post regarding John 3:16?
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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I am just wondering why God called salvation a gift if we need to be dragged to accept. Is it really a gift then. NO a gift is received.


Romans 5:18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

I am also wondering when all means all?
Because if "many" is exclusively true then "all" must be exclusively true?
How about a short reply to this one about "dragged". The Lord said it, not I, take it up with Him. John chose that Word, in the greek, under Divine inspiration. I am sure the Holy Spirit had a reason. I give one possibility, it might have something to do with mans condition, being that man is depraved and lacks ability in spiritual things.

If you would like my help with Romans 5:18, 19. I will give you my settled position.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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The teachers you mentioned are far from "free grace" most teach irresistible grace, another dogma like limited atonement not found in scripture.

I am still waiting for a response to my post regarding John 3:16?
That's just being argumentative, with no substance.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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The fact that men fail to accept, receive the free gift of salvation does no harm to the attributes of God.
You did not make even the smallest attempt to answer the question as posted. Whether you except it or not, this question goes to the heart of everything regarding Soteriology.

Yes, the attributes of God can be harmed with the wrong answer. Especially, regarding His Sovereignty and Power.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
That's just being argumentative, with no substance.
They are not free grace teachers and you are the first person that has i have encountered qould label them as such.

Why am I argumentative for making a request to look at my post and respond?

This is the same tactic you used on Duskey?
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
You did not make even the smallest attempt to answer the question as posted. Whether you except it or not, this question goes to the heart of everything regarding Soteriology.

Yes, the attributes of God can be harmed with the wrong answer. Especially, regarding His Sovereignty and Power.
Perhaps then we can discuss "irresistible grace" is this not the heart of the doctrine?

Perhaps you can expound on why God only offers irresistible grace to some and withholds from others?
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
How about a short reply to this one about "dragged". The Lord said it, not I, take it up with Him. John chose that Word, in the greek, under Divine inspiration. I am sure the Holy Spirit had a reason. I give one possibility, it might have something to do with mans condition, being that man is depraved and lacks ability in spiritual things.

If you would like my help with Romans 5:18, 19. I will give you my settled position.
First of all the word does not only mean dragged that is your preferred meaning.

Yes please tell when all is all and when it is not?
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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They are not free grace teachers and you are the first person that has i have encountered qould label them as such.

Why am I argumentative for making a request to look at my post and respond?

This is the same tactic you used on Duskey?
Perhaps because you do not answer any of my questions and neither did duskey. You don't seem to want to take things seriously. If you just want to make points without serious Biblical examination, then what's the point? I am doing what I can to honor my Lord, I don't want praise nor do I care if I am liked. My status is irrelevant, only let God be praised.

As far as you labeling these men as not "Free Grace" teachers, I am here to say they truly are. Irresistible grace is a theological point not truly a classification for the whole doctrine. I should know, I am proud to call John MacArthur a true friend in Christ and I knew W. E Best for many years before he went on to be with the Lord.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
Perhaps because you do not answer any of my questions and neither did duskey. You don't seem to want to take things seriously. If you just want to make points without serious Biblical examination, then what's the point? I am doing what I can to honor my Lord, I don't want praise nor do I care if I am liked. My status is irrelevant, only let God be praised.

As far as you labeling these men as not "Free Grace" teachers, I am here to say they truly are. Irresistible grace is a theological point not truly a classification for the whole doctrine. I should know, I am proud to call John MacArthur a true friend in Christ and I knew W. E Best for many years before he went on to be with the Lord.
I made a very serious examination of John 3:16... that is why I would like a response.

Would you like me to find it for you... a few pages back?

And btw discussion is not based on how you lay the ground rules.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Wow, I am never ceased to be amazed, how when this most hated doctrine of Grace Salvation comes into the light how the Armenians always want to shove it into darkness.
Wow I am so amazed that people call grace doctrine a doctrine of works

I am also sick of people calling me Arminian and a worker for. Both of which are false

I reject 5 point tulip and 5 point Arminianism

I am also sick of being told because I feel I was justified by faith alone and not by any work I did that I am a worker 4 and reject true grace

If you are not going to discuss this but just belittle the person who is trying to have a conversation with you and make false accusation and insist I believe something that is not true i will cut this off right now. Because there is no need to discuss something with someone who Can not hear

If you want to have a discussion let me know

I refuse to respond to anything that starts off like this especially when it is a false assumption of what I believe so I have not even ready anything else you wrote, if you can not start with a knowledge of what I believe then anything you said is probably wrong anyway because context of what your saying is wrong .
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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I made a very serious examination of John 3:16... that is why I would like a response.

Would you like me to find it for you... a few pages back?

And btw discussion is not based on how you lay the ground rules.
It's not, then you are wasting a lot of posts trying to tell me how it is going to be. I am not going to waste my time on one who is being so evasive. If you examined John 3:16, then give me your in depth conclusion. Please, a conclusion that is longer than one sentence. I am willing to listen to you in earnest, give me something.