Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004

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R

RomansToPhilemon

Guest
No PERFECTION in this world!

So the rules are only for the Jews?
What do you make of Mathew 5:17-20?

And could you please explain quickly the difference between the Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant?
If you're NOT IN the New Covenant, are you still saved??

Fran
Who is Matthew 5 written to is the bigger question? Is it written to the body of Christ, the new creature. The hidden mystery revelation given to the apostle Paul? Since Paul says that the body of Christ is a mystery, that God hid in himself. Than can Matthew 5 be written to us as the audience? No indeed it cannot be. Matt 5 is written to the believing remnant of Israel. They are also called the Little Flock.

The body of Christ is not in the New Covenant. This is a big topic to discuss. And I am not sure if you really even care what I have to say on the matter. But I will leave links that go over the issue in depth. You are free to go over them if you wish.

Differences Between the Old Covenant, New Covenant, and the Fellowship of the Mystery

What Is the New Covenant / Testament?
 
R

RomansToPhilemon

Guest
Look at the brown above in your post. Paul wrote to the Ephesians - to a select group of people. That message he gave to the Ephesians - the Holy Spirit uses to reveal the things of God to us.

Paul does the same thing in all his epistles.

1 Thessalonians 1:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Paul and Silvanus and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace.


Amen....Paul as sent to the Gentiles. James was sent to the Jews like Peter and John were. That is the reason James says he is writing to those that he was sent to the 12 tribes scattered abroad - the Jews.

Uh why did you skip the part where it says in Eph 1.1 where it says And to the faithful in Christ Jesus. I even put it in bold so you would see it lol.

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,756
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Who is Matthew 5 written to is the bigger question? Is it written to the body of Christ, the new creature. The hidden mystery revelation given to the apostle Paul? Since Paul says that the body of Christ is a mystery, that God hid in himself. Than can Matthew 5 be written to us as the audience? No indeed it cannot be. Matt 5 is written to the believing remnant of Israel. They are also called the Little Flock.

The body of Christ is not in the New Covenant. This is a big topic to discuss. And I am not sure if you really even care what I have to say on the matter. But I will leave links that go over the issue in depth. You are free to go over them if you wish.

Differences Between the Old Covenant, New Covenant, and the Fellowship of the Mystery

What Is the New Covenant / Testament?
The Lord was preparing Israel for rules of living in the Kingdom of Heaven, the literal promised kingdom through the Davidic covenant with Christ as King of Kings. In this Kingdom, one would be better off without his eyes if his eyes were causing him to sin against the King. Pluck them out. It's better than hell fire.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Who is Matthew 5 written to is the bigger question? Is it written to the body of Christ, the new creature. The hidden mystery revelation given to the apostle Paul? Since Paul says that the body of Christ is a mystery, that God hid in himself. Than can Matthew 5 be written to us as the audience? No indeed it cannot be. Matt 5 is written to the believing remnant of Israel. They are also called the Little Flock.

The body of Christ is not in the New Covenant. This is a big topic to discuss. And I am not sure if you really even care what I have to say on the matter. But I will leave links that go over the issue in depth. You are free to go over them if you wish.

Differences Between the Old Covenant, New Covenant, and the Fellowship of the Mystery

What Is the New Covenant / Testament?
Hi RTP
I don't care for links.
I'm here to talk.
If I want to read, I know where to go. I've read plenty.

So. What are you saying? Mathew 5 is not for Us today?
The Body of Christ is NOT in the New Covenant?
What kind of a mystery is the Body of Christ?

Yes. I am interested in what you have to say.

Fran
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
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0
HELP!

Who is MacArthur and what does he teach?
so many teachers, so little time ---

Fran
I consider this chaotic.
I know a good doctor who will converse with you in private messages.
His name is Dr. Frasier Crane.
LOL
Oh stop!
 
R

RomansToPhilemon

Guest
Like what Aquila and Priscilla did:

26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

The Apostle Paul was given the full revelation of salvation through Jesus Christ. It was a more perfect, complete message than what Peter was given.

Peter's message didn't know anything about Paul's message. They have no relation. Paul says his message was only revealed to him by direct revelation from Christ. I have gone over the issue's in Acts 10, 13, and 18. All of them with various people over the years. Here is some of the issues addressed.
Acts 8:14-17 poses a real problem if you think the church, the Body of Christ, began with the appearance of the Holy Ghost outpouring at Pentecost. The problem disappears when a mid-Acts Pauline perspective is used which rightly divides Acts 8 from the present dispensation of grace.

Spirit ≠ Body

The main argument for the subject of the mystery, the Body of Christ, beginning at Pentecost is 1 Cor 12:13.

“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.” – 1 Cor 12:13
Spirit baptism identifies us as the one body. The argument goes that this Spirit baptism occurred at Pentecost; therefore, so did the start of the body. This remains the most common objection to Pauline right division.

The first problem is in turning two different baptisms into one. Whereas 1 Cor 12:13 is a baptism performed by the Spirit into the body of Christ, the baptism at Pentecost differed in that Christ did the baptizing, and that into the power of the Sprit (Matt 3:11).

The second problem is in thinking that wherever the Spirit is present he must be doing the same thing. We could call this the same-Spirit-same-ministry approach. This does not accurately depict the work of the Spirit throughout the Bible which changes depending on the dispensation. A failure to recognize that the same Spirit could have different ministries has fertilized the growth of charismatic Pentecostalism. This is not the subject of the present article.

The concern at the present is a third problem found in Acts 8:14-17 with the Pentecostal Spirit identifying the mystery Body.

To Be or Not to Be

In Acts 8 Philip the great evangelist preaches the word in Samaria and many believe and receive him with his signs and wonders. They were even water baptized (which gives false comfort to those who make that a matter of importance, Acts 8:12). However, it is not until many days later when Peter and John came from Jerusalem that any believing Samaritan received the Holy Ghost (Acts 8:14-16).
“For as yet he [the Holy Ghost] was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” – Acts 8:16

Instead of getting sidetracked about the formula in which they were baptized notice that these were men and women believing Jesus was the Christ, who had repented, and were water baptized by Philip, but they had not received the Holy Ghost.
Here is the problem: were these people in the Body of Christ or not?

The Problem Stated Clearly

If they were in the Body, then this means a person’s identity with the Body is unrelated to the presence of the Spirit. This would undermine the original position that the Spirit identifies the Body at Pentecost.

If they were not, then this means believing the gospel, even when water baptism occurs, does not identify them as members of the church, the Body of Christ. (This should cause many Baptists to blow a fuse who water baptize for church membership.)
This second option is worse than the first in that it concludes that it is possible to believe the gospel while lacking a complete position in Christ through the Spirit.

This is the beginning of the second blessing teaching that instructs believers to wait, will, and work for the second blessing of Spirit empowerment that comes sometimes years after their belief in the gospel (often accompanied by tongue talking, so it is said).

All second blessing teachers confuse the gospel of grace by adding works and making believers incomplete in Christ, but it is derived from the pattern and problem in Acts 8:14-17.
The problem persists only when it is maintained that the church of today began at Pentecost.

The Mid-Acts Solution

The problem should make clear the reality that the church, the Body of Christ, could not have begun before Acts 9. Paul says that all that believe his gospel are sealed with the Holy Spirit who baptizes them into Christ.

“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise” – Eph 1:13

“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit” – 1 Corinthians 12:13

Paul did not say this, nor was true for the Samaritans in Acts 8.

Knowing that the gospel of the kingdom with signs and powers to Samaria was not the gospel of the grace of God rescues the gospel from the holiness second blessing heresy. Knowing that the mystery church of Christ’s body was not present in Acts 8 allows these believers in the gospel of Jesus’ name to receive the word of prophecy for a time without the prophesied power of the Holy Ghost. If the church, the Body of Christ, did not begin until it was first dispensed and described to the apostle Paul then the Acts 8 problem goes away.

Why the Delay

The mid-Acts position also clears up why there was a delay for these Samaritans in receiving the Spirit: they required acknowledgment by the authoritative kingdom apostles to receive what Jerusalem was not. This kingdom authority does not concern the church which does not answer to Jerusalem.

The presence of Peter and John in Samaria shows that the glory of the Lord’s kingdom had departed from Jerusalem, since they were instructed to stay in Jerusalem by the Lord (Luke 24:47; Acts 8:1). Samaritans were receiving what should have been received by the priests and scribes. Samaritans were still Israelites (not Gentiles) and what was happening here was according to prophecy not mystery. Nevertheless, the kingdom could not be ushered in by the hands of Samaritans without a converted Jerusalem.

The kingdom come had been postponed, and the Holy Ghost was demonstrating this by His presence among the Samaritans blessed by Peter and John but long rejected by those in the temple. The gospel for the church today had not yet been revealed.
Not only does this resolve the problem with Acts 8, but it explains why Paul is saved. Since Acts 8 represents the Spirit’s departure from the prophetic purpose, in the next chapter the Lord creates a new apostle and sends him to all men with a mystery. The mystery concerns a new creature, a one body church identified with Jesus Christ by the Spirit.
Acts 8:14-17 poses a real problem if you think the church body of 1 Cor 12:13 began at Pentecost. There is only one consistent solution: mid-Acts Pauline right division.

 
R

RomansToPhilemon

Guest
I agree with everything you said here - except of the fallacy that Peter preached a different gospel than Paul.

We have word for word accounts of both Peter and Paul preaching the gospel and it is bang on exactly the same thing.

Acts 10 for Peter and Acts 13 for Paul.

I would go over Acts 10 and 13 with you but you do not even use the KJB. You use a different bible than I do. Your bible doesn't agree with mine. Really no point in addressing the issues with you. But I will post links for anyone else wanting to read about Cornelius.

Peter Taught Gentiles. Yawn.

Did Cornelius Learn the Mystery?

And an audio version:

Objection: “Peter taught Paul’s gospel to Cornelius”
 

Chester

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May 23, 2016
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I love when people used James as their proof text to prove works salvation. The interesting thing about James is, that it's not written to us lol. Read the first verse in the book haha. James 1.1

James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

So when did you become part of the 12 Tribes of Israel? Are you a Hebrew? I hope not, because when you become a member of the body of Christ, you lose your identity and become a NEW creature. Neither Jew nor Gentile.
LOL!

By those standards, then you need to throw out Romans:
Romans 1:7 - To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

You need to throw out I Corinthians:
I Cor. 1:2 - Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours

Etc., Etc., Etc.

So most of the Bible was not written to us -- LOL! You will not get me to believe that! I will believe that all of the Bible is given to us to learn from - every word!
 
R

RomansToPhilemon

Guest
Hi RTP
I don't care for links.
I'm here to talk.
If I want to read, I know where to go. I've read plenty.

So. What are you saying? Mathew 5 is not for Us today?
The Body of Christ is NOT in the New Covenant?
What kind of a mystery is the Body of Christ?

Yes. I am interested in what you have to say.

Fran
The body of Christ was a mystery hid in God, not made known to anyone before Paul. And God tells us why he hid it. Had he revealed it before Paul. Christ would not have been crucified. A great passage to see this truth is Eph 3.1-10.

For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelationhe made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Compare Acts 3.21 and Rom 16.25 were you can see what Peter preaches is not and cannot be the same thing as Paul. Peter states clearly that his message was preached since the world began. Paul says his mystery was not known about since the world began. Two competing verses.

Acts 3.21
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Rom 16.25
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel (Paul's gospel message), and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Peter says he preached something known about since the world began. Paul says he preaches something not known since the world began. The body of Christ is part of the mystery revelation given to Paul. This is the beginning of understanding how to rightly divide the word of truth. 2 Tim 2.15
 
R

RomansToPhilemon

Guest
LOL!

By those standards, then you need to throw out Romans:
Romans 1:7 - To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

You need to throw out I Corinthians:
I Cor. 1:2 - Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours

Etc., Etc., Etc.

So most of the Bible was not written to us -- LOL! You will not get me to believe that! I will believe that all of the Bible is given to us to learn from - every word!

Know your audience. Paul is the apostle to the gentiles. He says it all throughout his epistles lol.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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Here is a good synopsis of "Lordship salvation" as it is sometimes taught. The term itself is not bad. It's what is added to it that creates problems.

[video=youtube;msWsC0srUas]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msWsC0srUas[/video]
Grace 777 - A good video showing the errors of a works salvation - he calls it "Lordship salvation"

I agree with him.
 
R

RomansToPhilemon

Guest
Oh, I forgot to mention. That God tells us why he hid it in 1 Cor 2.6-8. Had these mystery truths been known before Paul, Christ would NOT have been crucified.

Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.


Sorry, I had forgot to list that verse. Other mystery verses are all over Paul's epistles. The one's that come to mind are Col 1.25-26, Gal 1.11-12 plus all the ones I listed above. Eph 6.19 were Paul calls his gospel a mystery.

And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

It's all over Paul, but easily missed and dismissed by mainline tradition and pastors. Many Pastors know these truths, but don't teach on them because they are scared to lose their tithing. This has been admitted and have come out of the mouths of many pastors.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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Rom 11.13
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
LOL!

Rom. 11:13 is speaking about the Gentiles in Rome - see Romans 1:7
To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,284
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Like what Aquila and Priscilla did:

26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

The Apostle Paul was given the full revelation of salvation through Jesus Christ. It was a more perfect, complete message than what Peter was given.


Scripture for that please?
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,284
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Who is Matthew 5 written to is the bigger question? Is it written to the body of Christ, the new creature. The hidden mystery revelation given to the apostle Paul? Since Paul says that the body of Christ is a mystery, that God hid in himself. Than can Matthew 5 be written to us as the audience? No indeed it cannot be. Matt 5 is written to the believing remnant of Israel. They are also called the Little Flock.
LOL! Matthew 5 is written to believers today. Pick and choose if you like: I will take and believe the words of Christ and that they apply to my life today.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,284
1,418
113
Know your audience. Paul is the apostle to the gentiles. He says it all throughout his epistles lol.
LOL! You use a specific reference in James when he says he was writing to "the twelve tribes" but ignore specific geographical references in Paul's epistles because he was the apostle to the Gentiles.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,756
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Peter's message didn't know anything about Paul's message. They have no relation. Paul says his message was only revealed to him by direct revelation from Christ. I have gone over the issue's in Acts 10, 13, and 18. All of them with various people over the years. Here is some of the issues addressed.
Acts 8:14-17 poses a real problem if you think the church, the Body of Christ, began with the appearance of the Holy Ghost outpouring at Pentecost. The problem disappears when a mid-Acts Pauline perspective is used which rightly divides Acts 8 from the present dispensation of grace.

Spirit ≠ Body

The main argument for the subject of the mystery, the Body of Christ, beginning at Pentecost is 1 Cor 12:13.

“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.” – 1 Cor 12:13
Spirit baptism identifies us as the one body. The argument goes that this Spirit baptism occurred at Pentecost; therefore, so did the start of the body. This remains the most common objection to Pauline right division.

The first problem is in turning two different baptisms into one. Whereas 1 Cor 12:13 is a baptism performed by the Spirit into the body of Christ, the baptism at Pentecost differed in that Christ did the baptizing, and that into the power of the Sprit (Matt 3:11).

The second problem is in thinking that wherever the Spirit is present he must be doing the same thing. We could call this the same-Spirit-same-ministry approach. This does not accurately depict the work of the Spirit throughout the Bible which changes depending on the dispensation. A failure to recognize that the same Spirit could have different ministries has fertilized the growth of charismatic Pentecostalism. This is not the subject of the present article.

The concern at the present is a third problem found in Acts 8:14-17 with the Pentecostal Spirit identifying the mystery Body.

To Be or Not to Be

In Acts 8 Philip the great evangelist preaches the word in Samaria and many believe and receive him with his signs and wonders. They were even water baptized (which gives false comfort to those who make that a matter of importance, Acts 8:12). However, it is not until many days later when Peter and John came from Jerusalem that any believing Samaritan received the Holy Ghost (Acts 8:14-16).
“For as yet he [the Holy Ghost] was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” – Acts 8:16

Instead of getting sidetracked about the formula in which they were baptized notice that these were men and women believing Jesus was the Christ, who had repented, and were water baptized by Philip, but they had not received the Holy Ghost.
Here is the problem: were these people in the Body of Christ or not?

The Problem Stated Clearly

If they were in the Body, then this means a person’s identity with the Body is unrelated to the presence of the Spirit. This would undermine the original position that the Spirit identifies the Body at Pentecost.

If they were not, then this means believing the gospel, even when water baptism occurs, does not identify them as members of the church, the Body of Christ. (This should cause many Baptists to blow a fuse who water baptize for church membership.)
This second option is worse than the first in that it concludes that it is possible to believe the gospel while lacking a complete position in Christ through the Spirit.

This is the beginning of the second blessing teaching that instructs believers to wait, will, and work for the second blessing of Spirit empowerment that comes sometimes years after their belief in the gospel (often accompanied by tongue talking, so it is said).

All second blessing teachers confuse the gospel of grace by adding works and making believers incomplete in Christ, but it is derived from the pattern and problem in Acts 8:14-17.
The problem persists only when it is maintained that the church of today began at Pentecost.

The Mid-Acts Solution

The problem should make clear the reality that the church, the Body of Christ, could not have begun before Acts 9. Paul says that all that believe his gospel are sealed with the Holy Spirit who baptizes them into Christ.

“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise” – Eph 1:13

“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit” – 1 Corinthians 12:13

Paul did not say this, nor was true for the Samaritans in Acts 8.

Knowing that the gospel of the kingdom with signs and powers to Samaria was not the gospel of the grace of God rescues the gospel from the holiness second blessing heresy. Knowing that the mystery church of Christ’s body was not present in Acts 8 allows these believers in the gospel of Jesus’ name to receive the word of prophecy for a time without the prophesied power of the Holy Ghost. If the church, the Body of Christ, did not begin until it was first dispensed and described to the apostle Paul then the Acts 8 problem goes away.

Why the Delay

The mid-Acts position also clears up why there was a delay for these Samaritans in receiving the Spirit: they required acknowledgment by the authoritative kingdom apostles to receive what Jerusalem was not. This kingdom authority does not concern the church which does not answer to Jerusalem.

The presence of Peter and John in Samaria shows that the glory of the Lord’s kingdom had departed from Jerusalem, since they were instructed to stay in Jerusalem by the Lord (Luke 24:47; Acts 8:1). Samaritans were receiving what should have been received by the priests and scribes. Samaritans were still Israelites (not Gentiles) and what was happening here was according to prophecy not mystery. Nevertheless, the kingdom could not be ushered in by the hands of Samaritans without a converted Jerusalem.

The kingdom come had been postponed, and the Holy Ghost was demonstrating this by His presence among the Samaritans blessed by Peter and John but long rejected by those in the temple. The gospel for the church today had not yet been revealed.
Not only does this resolve the problem with Acts 8, but it explains why Paul is saved. Since Acts 8 represents the Spirit’s departure from the prophetic purpose, in the next chapter the Lord creates a new apostle and sends him to all men with a mystery. The mystery concerns a new creature, a one body church identified with Jesus Christ by the Spirit.
Acts 8:14-17 poses a real problem if you think the church body of 1 Cor 12:13 began at Pentecost. There is only one consistent solution: mid-Acts Pauline right division.

I'm following you, but my argument is that there were people getting into the body of Christ before Paul through various ways such as water baptism and the laying on of hands of those that believed the Apostles message. I agree and know full well that when the Lord turned to the Gentiles, the Lord revealed many things to the Apostle Paul that had been hid from the beginning. The Lord used Paul to settle the foundation of the body of Christ. No more water baptism needed or laying on of hands, but simple faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ(1 Corinthians 15:1-4). The book of Acts is not a doctrinal book to plant your feet upon. Paul's epistles lay out the direction for the body of Christ in the Church Age.

What do you do with Romans 16:7, Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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LOL! You use a specific reference in James when he says he was writing to "the twelve tribes" but ignore specific geographical references in Paul's epistles because he was the apostle to the Gentiles.
The twelve tribes is always a reference to the entire nation of Israel, the whole. It is never used in Scripture to represent only a few chosen from that nation. When Paul wrote to the church at Philippi, for example, he was writing to the believers in Philippi, part of the body of Christ. Whatever would apply to them, would apply to any believer anywhere. Paul even tells us:

1 Corinthians 4:17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.

What Paul taught to the church in Philippi is the same message that Paul taught to the Corinthians, etc...It's the same doctrine that Paul teaches to the church some 2,000 years later.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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LOL! Matthew 5 is written to believers today. Pick and choose if you like: I will take and believe the words of Christ and that they apply to my life today.
Would you agree that God had different directions for different time periods in the Old Testament? Was Noah commanded not to eat of the forbidden fruit? Was Abraham commanded to build an ark? etc...

In the same way, there are different directions in the New Testament as one rightly divides the word of truth. We have to make sure we are following the correct spokesman for the Church Age today.
 
M

MattTooFor

Guest
If I cannot do good works to get saved,
then how can I do bad works to lose salvation



Because you weren't saved in the first place. This is the huge oversight of the OSAS crowd -- a presumption of salvation.
 
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