Eternal torment VS Annihilation

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Crustyone

Senior Member
Mar 15, 2015
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It still looks like the evil people will be dead in the Lake of Fire (Hell), and only Satan, the false prophet, the beast and those who took the mark of the beast or worshiped him will be tormented forever. All others must have died or else who would the dead bodies (corpses in some versions) be in the last verse in the book of Isaiah? As far as things going on forever and ever, I suspect that the interpretation of that comes from early Catholic translation to make it fit with their desire to scare people into their church. It may be possible that there is no actual meaning of eternity, except for the early Catholic preference of meaning which has survived through the ages. The Greek words only mean that the fire cannot be put out, otherwise. The same with the Hebrew words for the fires of Hell. As for the idea of forever and ever the Greek word also has the meanings of an age or a time. Try going to netbible.org and check out the Greek and Hebrew words that go with the english text. Hover the cursor over the English word to find the Greek or Hebrew word and then hover over them. There is sometimes a different meaning and all meanings are stated one place or the other.
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
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It still looks like the evil people will be dead in the Lake of Fire (Hell), and only Satan, the false prophet, the beast and those who took the mark of the beast or worshiped him will be tormented forever. All others must have died or else who would the dead bodies (corpses in some versions) be in the last verse in the book of Isaiah? As far as things going on forever and ever, I suspect that the interpretation of that comes from early Catholic translation to make it fit with their desire to scare people into their church. It may be possible that there is no actual meaning of eternity, except for the early Catholic preference of meaning which has survived through the ages. The Greek words only mean that the fire cannot be put out, otherwise. The same with the Hebrew words for the fires of Hell. As for the idea of forever and ever the Greek word also has the meanings of an age or a time. Try going to netbible.org and check out the Greek and Hebrew words that go with the english text. Hover the cursor over the English word to find the Greek or Hebrew word and then hover over them. There is sometimes a different meaning and all meanings are stated one place or the other.
Nobody is tormented without end. The "ages" of which the devil is tormented is by being exposed by the light of Jesus in judgment,

For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed Jn.3:20
 
Mar 28, 2016
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It still looks like the evil people will be dead in the Lake of Fire (Hell), and only Satan, the false prophet, the beast and those who took the mark of the beast or worshiped him will be tormented forever. All others must have died or else who would the dead bodies (corpses in some versions) be in the last verse in the book of Isaiah? As far as things going on forever and ever, I suspect that the interpretation of that comes from early Catholic translation to make it fit with their desire to scare people into their church. It may be possible that there is no actual meaning of eternity, except for the early Catholic preference of meaning which has survived through the ages. The Greek words only mean that the fire cannot be put out, otherwise. The same with the Hebrew words for the fires of Hell. As for the idea of forever and ever the Greek word also has the meanings of an age or a time. Try going to netbible.org and check out the Greek and Hebrew words that go with the english text. Hover the cursor over the English word to find the Greek or Hebrew word and then hover over them. There is sometimes a different meaning and all meanings are stated one place or the other.

Death in respect to the wriiten law is cast into the lake of fire Not people or lying spirts .But rather the source that kills them the written law. It will never rise to condemn again .

We live in a condemed body, the first death we are experiencing it...it is according to Romans 1 being revealed from heaven. It began being revealed in the garden when faith was made to no effect..... it as it is written departed from mankind.
 

Deade

Called of God
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yeshuaofisrael.org
Though have already done that many times, I'd be happy to if it might mean that you would understand this truth. Below is an example of scripture using the word "apoleia" translated as "destrucion."

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

Below is the definition of the word "apoleia" according to Strong's and HELPS Word-studies:

Strong's Concordance
apóleia: destruction, loss
Original Word: ἀπώλεια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apóleia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-o'-li-a)
Definition: destruction, loss
Usage: destruction, ruin, loss, perishing; eternal ruin.

HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 684
apṓleia (from 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") – destruction, causing someone (something) to be completely severed – cut off (entirely) from what could or should have been. (Note the force of the prefix, apo.) See 622 (apollymi).

684 /apṓleia ("perdition") does not imply "annihilation" (see the meaning of the root-verb, 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") but instead "loss of well-being" rather than being (Vine's Expository Dictionary, 165; cf. Jn 11:50; Ac 5:37; 1 Cor 10:9-10; Jude 11).

The noun "apoleia" is from its verb "apollumi" which as you can see highlighted in red does not imply annihilation, but means to be completely cut off (from God and life). Below is another example of the use of the word:

"When He got into the boat, His disciples followed Him. 24Suddenly a violent storm came up on the sea, so that the boat was engulfed by the waves; but Jesus was sleeping. 25The disciples went and woke Him, saying, “Lord, save us! We are perishing!”

The word translated as "perishing" in the scripture above is the word "apollumi." I think that you will agree that the disciples were not saying to Jesus "Lord save us! We are about to become nonexistent or annihilated!" Below is another example of the meaning of this word:

"And no one puts new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the wine will burst the skins—and the wine is destroyed, and so are the skins."

Just as with the first example, the word "apollumi" for the destruction of the wine and wine skins does not refer to them as becoming nonexistent or annihilated, but completely ruined, which is the same meaning for those who enter in through the broad gate which leads to destruction/apollumi. Destruction (apollumi) is not annihilation or extinction, but complete loss of well being in separation from God in the lake of fire.

I will continue to pray that God will reveal the truth of this to you.
You can play and wrest these words until they say what you want. Common sense tells me destruction and perishing mean just what they mean. All word have had multiple meanings applied to them. We can wrestle them and pick some uncommon definition once applied to them and claim that.

I believe the Holy Spirit has revealed to me that the dead are asleep. Everyone has a promise of a resurrection. Those of us called will rise at Christ's coming (1 Cor. 15:23). The rest of the dead at the second resurrection (Rev. 20:5). When God gets done with the judgment on the last day, He will completely annihilate Satan, all the demons, all evil humans, death itself and the grave associated with death (Ezek. 28:18,19). 11-welcoming.png
 
Mar 28, 2016
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You can play and wrest these words until they say what you want. Common sense tells me destruction and perishing mean just what they mean. All word have had multiple meanings applied to them. We can wrestle them and pick some uncommon definition once applied to them and claim that.

I believe the Holy Spirit has revealed to me that the dead are asleep. Everyone has a promise of a resurrection. Those of us called will rise at Christ's coming (1 Cor. 15:23). The rest of the dead at the second resurrection (Rev. 20:5). When God gets done with the judgment on the last day, He will completely annihilate Satan, all the demons, all evil humans, death itself and the grave associated with death (Ezek. 28:18,19). View attachment 201403

The first resurrection is the resurrection of new spirit life. It began when Christ said it is finished, the graves were opened providing a mansion for a believer the heavenly jerusalamen .To be absent of the flesh is to be present with the Lord.

The veil was rent the reformation had come , the beginning of a unknow amount of time ( last days) before death is vanished, and not peoples bodies. . but the law that kills. The written law. It will never rise to condemn those who violate it forever and ever more. .

The rest of the dead where not reincarnated men who reused to believe in God They suffered the first death and were not given a new spirit that will rise on the last day. their flesh returned to the dust and their corrupted spirit returned to God who had given it conditionally.


And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Revelation 20:4-5

Not but the rest of the dead died not again. death is appointed once.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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It still looks like the evil people will be dead in the Lake of Fire (Hell), and only Satan, the false prophet, the beast and those who took the mark of the beast or worshiped him will be tormented forever. All others must have died or else who would the dead bodies (corpses in some versions) be in the last verse in the book of Isaiah? As far as things going on forever and ever, I suspect that the interpretation of that comes from early Catholic translation to make it fit with their desire to scare people into their church. It may be possible that there is no actual meaning of eternity, except for the early Catholic preference of meaning which has survived through the ages. The Greek words only mean that the fire cannot be put out, otherwise. The same with the Hebrew words for the fires of Hell. As for the idea of forever and ever the Greek word also has the meanings of an age or a time. Try going to netbible.org and check out the Greek and Hebrew words that go with the english text. Hover the cursor over the English word to find the Greek or Hebrew word and then hover over them. There is sometimes a different meaning and all meanings are stated one place or the other.
Would you provide the verse that support what you believe?
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,554
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I am amazed that some believe the lie that satan told Eve that if she disobeyed God she would not die. Many believe that lie today and give all wicked and righteous eternal life when the only the only one that is immortal/eternal is God.

If you believe you are a conscience spirit after death when the Bible clearly says the dead know nothing then you are believing the lie that satan said to Eve that if you sin you won't die.

God clearly states that the wages of sin is death. So again I ask the question...

Who is the liar God or Satan?

God who said if you sin you will die or satan who says do what you want and you won't die even if you disobey God.

The belief that folks hold onto is that wicked are burning in hell when they die and righteous automatically go to heaven.
Why then is there a need to resurrect the body when Jesus returns?

The Bible says at the end of it all we get our reward that righteous are living with God eternally in the new earth and wicked are thrown in the lake of fire and the last thing thrown in the fire is death. The second death.

Bible teaches this I am not making this stuff up.
 
Jul 21, 2019
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Murica
Definitely all the wicked people, the wicked angels, and the dragon named Satan and all other bad guys will be tormented forever. In fact the smoke of their torment will rise up forever while we eternally sing praises to Jesus! May they be fully aware of their ongoing destruction for all eternity and suffer greatly as they weep and gnash their teeth for all eternity because they have forsaken the Living God, praise Jesus!
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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I am amazed that some believe the lie that satan told Eve that if she disobeyed God she would not die. Many believe that lie today and give all wicked and righteous eternal life when the only the only one that is immortal/eternal is God.

If you believe you are a conscience spirit after death when the Bible clearly says the dead know nothing then you are believing the lie that satan said to Eve that if you sin you won't die.

God clearly states that the wages of sin is death. So again I ask the question...

Who is the liar God or Satan?

God who said if you sin you will die or satan who says do what you want and you won't die even if you disobey God.

The belief that folks hold onto is that wicked are burning in hell when they die and righteous automatically go to heaven.
Why then is there a need to resurrect the body when Jesus returns?

The Bible says at the end of it all we get our reward that righteous are living with God eternally in the new earth and wicked are thrown in the lake of fire and the last thing thrown in the fire is death. The second death.

Bible teaches this I am not making this stuff up.
God never lie

The problem is you think death mean annihilate

Jesus die in the cross

If death mean annihilate

Than it mean Jesus annihilate

And Jesus not annihilate, because death do not mean annihilate
 
Mar 28, 2016
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God never lie

The problem is you think death mean annihilate

Jesus die in the cross

If death mean annihilate

Than it mean Jesus annihilate

And Jesus not annihilate, because death do not mean annihilate
Death means death . Death does not mean suffer.

In dying the end is death. Romans 1:18 the wrath being revealed from heaven is the death sentence. The suffering we do a by the action of Him corrupted the whole creation called hell is part of it.

It mean Jesus suffering a living hell. By pouring out His Spirit life .God does not accept dead sacrifices.

Those who did not receive a new born again spirit they simply will not rise to ne eternal spirt life. Their corrupted bodies will return to the dust and the corrupted spirit returns to father who gave it.

The letter of the law that kills to begin with will be cast into the lake of fire never to rise to condemn again "you will surely die" .Not surely suffer . Making God merciless

And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Geneisis2:16 -17

Suffering with out end is simply the over zealously of some who it would seem forget it is God who works to give mercy and grace to those he works in to both will and do His good pleasure. Giving mercy to those who does not work in..... called death... the end.

God is a God of mercy.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Death means death . Death does not mean suffer.

In dying the end is death. Romans 1:18 the wrath being revealed from heaven is the death sentence. The suffering we do a by the action of Him corrupted the whole creation called hell is part of it.

It mean Jesus suffering a living hell. By pouring out His Spirit life .God does not accept dead sacrifices.

Those who did not receive a new born again spirit they simply will not rise to ne eternal spirt life. Their corrupted bodies will return to the dust and the corrupted spirit returns to father who gave it.

The letter of the law that kills to begin with will be cast into the lake of fire never to rise to condemn again "you will surely die" .Not surely suffer . Making God merciless

And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Geneisis2:16 -17

Suffering with out end is simply the over zealously of some who it would seem forget it is God who works to give mercy and grace to those he works in to both will and do His good pleasure. Giving mercy to those who does not work in..... called death... the end.

God is a God of mercy.
Death do not mean annihilate

If a man do not accept Jesus, he will suffer in hell forever
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
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Death do not mean annihilate

If a man do not accept Jesus, he will suffer in hell forever
If God does not create in a person a new spirit they will never rise to new life.

If God does not cast the letter of the law into the lake of fire. . . . never to rise again to condemn and kill. . .as in; Thou shall not eat of the will of another or you will surely die (not surely suffer without dying). Then the matter will keep repeating itself and Christ will have to come again and again in the temporal flesh for another demonstration. .

To annihilate is to reduce to nothing not reduce to suffering a work . Like before nothing when God said: let there be

Psalm 104:29Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.

Ecclesiastes 12:7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Jonah 2:1-2(KJV)Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish's belly, And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

The parallel interpretation by reason of affection Found in Jonas, in Mark 14 as the last sign and wonder speaks exceeding sorrowful unto death: both strengthened to finish the living sacrifice of suffering in the belly of hell or the heart of the earth. three days and three nights..

And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch. And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him.And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt. Mark 14
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,554
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God never lie

The problem is you think death mean annihilate

Jesus die in the cross

If death mean annihilate

Than it mean Jesus annihilate

And Jesus not annihilate, because death do not mean annihilate
I only believe the second death in lake of fire is annihilation. Other death is a sleep as Jesus referred to it until he comes again and raises righteous from the dead.
 

Smooth

Well-known member
Jul 22, 2019
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Weeping and gnashing of teeth definitely means one thing; if annihilation occurs, it won’t be immediate.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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If God does not create in a person a new spirit they will never rise to new life.

If God does not cast the letter of the law into the lake of fire. . . . never to rise again to condemn and kill. . .as in; Thou shall not eat of the will of another or you will surely die (not surely suffer without dying). Then the matter will keep repeating itself and Christ will have to come again and again in the temporal flesh for another demonstration. .

To annihilate is to reduce to nothing not reduce to suffering a work . Like before nothing when God said: let there be

Psalm 104:29Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.

Ecclesiastes 12:7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Jonah 2:1-2(KJV)Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish's belly, And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

The parallel interpretation by reason of affection Found in Jonas, in Mark 14 as the last sign and wonder speaks exceeding sorrowful unto death: both strengthened to finish the living sacrifice of suffering in the belly of hell or the heart of the earth. three days and three nights..

And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch. And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him.And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt. Mark 14
Matthew 25:41 King James Version (KJV)
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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I only believe the second death in lake of fire is annihilation. Other death is a sleep as Jesus referred to it until he comes again and raises righteous from the dead.
can you provide a verse that say second death mean annihilate?

I hope you read this verse

Matthew 25:41 King James Version (KJV)
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Matthew 25:41 King James Version (KJV)
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Yes, the letter of the law as to the fall of mankind is everlasting death (you shall surely die in your suffering ) death by the letter of the law is on the last day cast into the fire never to rise and condemn the new creation.

Death the judgement being revealed from heaven. Hell a living work by reason of suffering . In Christ we have our sabbath rest from that work .Those who have not Christ find no rest in this life and not future hope for the next.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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I only believe the second death in lake of fire is annihilation. Other death is a sleep as Jesus referred to it until he comes again and raises righteous from the dead.
Hi JesusLives,

Just fyi, you're in company with the Seventh Day Adventist and Jehova's Witnesses who also believe and teach soul-sleep.

Sleeping is only referring to the body, not the spirit. In order to continue in the belief of soul-sleep you would have to ignore all of the other scriptures that show the spirit as being conscious and aware after the death of the body.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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Yes, the letter of the law as to the fall of mankind is everlasting death (you shall surely die in your suffering ) death by the letter of the law is on the last day cast into the fire never to rise and condemn the new creation.

Death the judgement being revealed from heaven. Hell a living work by reason of suffering . In Christ we have our sabbath rest from that work .Those who have not Christ find no rest in this life and not future hope for the next.
My question is, where in the Bible say second death is innahilation