Faith Alone?

mailmandan · Jan 14, 2016

Amen! Genesis 15:5 - Then He brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be." 6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness. PRIOR TO THE WORK THAT ABRAHAM ACCOMPLISHED MANY YEARS LATER IN GENESIS 22.

Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness."

Did God say this for His benefit or for ours? Prior to Abraham offering up Isaac on the altar, do you believe that God was clueless whether or not Abraham feared God and would go through with the sacrifice? Was Abraham's faith accounted to him for righteousness before or after Genesis 22:12?

All the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice. NOT, not your faith will finally be accounted to you for righteousness, because you have obeyed My voice. Abraham was NOT saved by works.

Approved for what? We are "shown to be righteous" when we obey afterwards, yet our faith is reckoned for righteousness when we believe, before we obey afterwards (Romans 4:2-6). So why was Abraham's faith accounted to him for righteousness in Genesis 15:6 many years before he obeyed in Genesis 22? So much for salvation by works!

By faith Abel offered a sacrifice (Heb. 11:4). - Abel offered a sacrifice "by" (out of) a faith that "he already had" and confirmed his faith by what he did. Cain demonstrated an evil heart by his evil deeds, while Abel demonstrated a good heart by his righteous deeds (1 John 3:12); and that Abel offered his sacrifice by faith and Cain did not. Because of Cain's faith, God accounted him as righteous. His faith was evidenced in obedience to God's requirement for sacrifice by which he obtained witness that he was righteous. That sacrifice did not make his righteous, but through it he was "shown to be righteous" because of his faith (James 2:18). Cain's sacrifice was evidence that his faith was not genuine. Abel's offering proved something about his faith that was not demonstrated by Cain's offering.

Obtained witness that he was pleasing to God does not equate to salvation by works.

The witness which obedience provides demonstrates that our faith is genuine for all to see, yet God knows the condition of our heart (whether we have genuine faith or not) prior to performing obedient works which follow saving faith.

Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith, not the origin of it. Noah was already a righteous man because of his faith BEFORE he built the ark. Again, building the ark was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith (not the origin of it) and saved him and his family (physically) from drowning.

Yet when was Abraham saved? When he Abraham's faith accounted to him for righteousness? When he believed God in Genesis 15:6. Not before or after.

The scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous because of his faith and not his works (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar and demonstrated the reality of his faith and was "shown to be righteous" in Genesis 22.

Perfected by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on his works in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the work of offering up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save his soul, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works, "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith in James chapter 2 (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God through faith, not works (Romans 4:2-3).

We are justified by faith IN CHRIST alone (Romans 3:24; 5:1).
We are not justified by the kind of faith that "remains alone" (solitary, unfruitful, barren) which demonstrates that this claim of faith is not genuine faith but an empty profession of faith/a dead faith - James 2:14-20. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24). *Please pay close attention - The word "alone" in regards to salvation through faith "in Christ alone" conveys the message that Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24-28; 4:2-6; 5:1); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*

Obedience simply demonstrates that we have faith, but we are saved through faith/believing in Him prior to accomplishing obedience/works afterwards.

Matthew 7:21 - "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

John 6:40 - For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. Salvation by works is NOT the will of the Father. *When will you believe?

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. These Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47 - this is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

So when we properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture, we clearly see that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31). *Perfect Harmony*

Those who received the word (through repentance/faith) were (afterwards) baptized.

Acts 4:4 - However, many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand.

Acts 5:14 - And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women. Placing our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ alone for salvation constitutes "believe in the Lord Jesus Christ" and you will be saved and this is established BEFORE water baptism.

Testing our faith by obedience and being saved by obedience/works which follow saving faith in Christ are two completely different things. I hope and pray that you will repent and believe the gospel.

seed_time_harvest · Jan 14, 2016

mailmandan said:

Amen! Genesis 15:5 - Then He brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be." 6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness. PRIOR TO THE WORK THAT ABRAHAM ACCOMPLISHED MANY YEARS LATER IN GENESIS 22.

Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness."

Did God say this for His benefit or for ours? Prior to Abraham offering up Isaac on the altar, do you believe that God was clueless whether or not Abraham feared God and would go through with the sacrifice? Was Abraham's faith accounted to him for righteousness before or after Genesis 22:12?

All the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice. NOT, not your faith will finally be accounted to you for righteousness, because you have obeyed My voice. Abraham was NOT saved by works.

Approved for what? We are "shown to be righteous" when we obey afterwards, yet our faith is reckoned for righteousness when we believe, before we obey afterwards (Romans 4:2-6). So why was Abraham's faith accounted to him for righteousness in Genesis 15:6 many years before he obeyed in Genesis 22? So much for salvation by works!

By faith Abel offered a sacrifice (Heb. 11:4). - Abel offered a sacrifice "by" (out of) a faith that "he already had" and confirmed his faith by what he did. Cain demonstrated an evil heart by his evil deeds, while Abel demonstrated a good heart by his righteous deeds (1 John 3:12); and that Abel offered his sacrifice by faith and Cain did not. Because of Cain's faith, God accounted him as righteous. His faith was evidenced in obedience to God's requirement for sacrifice by which he obtained witness that he was righteous. That sacrifice did not make his righteous, but through it he was "shown to be righteous" because of his faith (James 2:18). Cain's sacrifice was evidence that his faith was not genuine. Abel's offering proved something about his faith that was not demonstrated by Cain's offering.

Obtained witness that he was pleasing to God does not equate to salvation by works.

The witness which obedience provides demonstrates that our faith is genuine for all to see, yet God knows the condition of our heart (whether we have genuine faith or not) prior to performing obedient works which follow saving faith.

Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith, not the origin of it. Noah was already a righteous man because of his faith BEFORE he built the ark. Again, building the ark was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith (not the origin of it) and saved him and his family (physically) from drowning.

Yet when was Abraham saved? When he Abraham's faith accounted to him for righteousness? When he believed God in Genesis 15:6. Not before or after.

The scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous because of his faith and not his works (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar and demonstrated the reality of his faith and was "shown to be righteous" in Genesis 22.

Perfected by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on his works in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the work of offering up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save his soul, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works, "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith in James chapter 2 (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God through faith, not works (Romans 4:2-3).

We are justified by faith IN CHRIST alone (Romans 3:24; 5:1).
We are not justified by the kind of faith that "remains alone" (solitary, unfruitful, barren) which demonstrates that this claim of faith is not genuine faith but an empty profession of faith/a dead faith - James 2:14-20. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24). *Please pay close attention - The word "alone" in regards to salvation through faith "in Christ alone" conveys the message that Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24-28; 4:2-6; 5:1); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*

Obedience simply demonstrates that we have faith, but we are saved through faith/believing in Him prior to accomplishing obedience/works afterwards.

Matthew 7:21 - "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

John 6:40 - For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. Salvation by works is NOT the will of the Father. *When will you believe?

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. These Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47 - this is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

So when we properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture, we clearly see that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31). *Perfect Harmony*

Those who received the word (through repentance/faith) were (afterwards) baptized.

Acts 4:4 - However, many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand.

Acts 5:14 - And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women. Placing our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ alone for salvation constitutes "believe in the Lord Jesus Christ" and you will be saved and this is established BEFORE water baptism.

Testing our faith by obedience and being saved by obedience/works which follow saving faith in Christ are two completely different things. I hope and pray that you will repent and believe the gospel.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to mailmandan again.

John146 · Jan 14, 2016

Galatians 2:16, "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the FAITH OF CHRIST, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." See also v20

I am justified by the faith of Jesus Christ through my belief in Him. My faith cannot justify because my works cannot justify. Christ's faith can justify because His works can justify.

plaintalk · Jan 16, 2016

#241 Dan
Is it within God’s purpose to require a physical response in regard to salvation and justification? It appears that He did with regard to Abraham yet Dan tells us that the events of Genesis 15, justification by faith, and those of Genesis 22, the testing of Abraham’s faith are years apart and apparently unrelated. Then Dan refers to Romans 4 to show that justification is not by works of the law. Since the law was given some 430 years after Abraham, we would agree. However that is not the whole story because James asks, “Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? The he quotes Genesis 15: 6, AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS” and tells us it was fulfilled when Abraham offered up Isaac. There can be no doubt that Genesis 22: 12 is applicable and relevant to Genesis 15: 6. For now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me. (Gen. 22: 12) NASB James says anyone who thinks that faith without works is effective, is a “foolish fellow.”
How can it be that Paul tells us that we are not justified by works and James says we are? Some have erroneously, I believe, suggested that Paul was speaking of justification before God and James was speaking of justification before men? Where is that found in James 2? I don’t see it. A better solution, with scriptural support, is that Paul is speaking of works of the law and works of merit (Gal. 2: 16; Titus 3: 5) while James is speaking of works of faith and the obedience of faith. (1 Thess. 1: 3; Rom. 1:5)
Are we surprised that James connects works and justification by faith? Not if we understand that faith is not one dimensional, merely believing. According to the Scriptures faith without love is meaningless and faith without works is dead and useless. (1 Cor. 13: 2; James 2: 17, 20) And not if we look a Abraham’s faith; the story of Abraham’s faith does not begin in Genesis 22 nor in Genesis 15. We find that in Genesis 12 that when Abraham was called, he obeyed and lived in the land of promise as an alien. (Heb. 11: 8, 9) So we find that Abraham was living a life of obedient or perfected faith when God told him in Genesis 15: 6 that his faith was reckoned for righteousness.
Why did God tell Abraham, “for now I know that you fear Me?” I think Dan is right, that statement was made for our benefit and not God’s. God must have wanted to stress this message very much if He orders Abraham to offer Isaac. The message is, I believe, that the faith that is reckoned for righteousness is not alone, it is accompanied by love and works of faith, it is not merely believing, God requires a physical response. Why? So that we might have full assurance that our faith is perfected and deemed acceptable to God. It is for our benefit, not God’s. God bless.

John146 · Jan 16, 2016

The question at hand in James is in verse 14, "can faith save him?" James says no, you need works. Paul says yes, you don't need works.

seed_time_harvest · Jan 16, 2016

John146 said:

GOD Is not the author of confusion,so then,the scriptures that Paul wrote and the scriptures that James wrote should make sense and be In perfect harmony.

John146 · Jan 16, 2016

seed_time_harvest said:

GOD Is not the author of confusion,so then,the scriptures that Paul wrote and the scriptures that James wrote should make sense and be In perfect harmony.[/QUOT

Or you simply rightly divide the word of truth. Paul is speaking to the Church, James is speaking to the 12 tribes scattered in the Great Tribulation to come. There's a reason the book of James comes after the Church Age epistles.

seed_time_harvest · Jan 16, 2016

John146 said:

seed_time_harvest said:

Who told Paul what to say?GOD
Who told James what to say?GOD

GOD Is not the author of confusion

John146 · Jan 16, 2016

seed_time_harvest said:

John146 said:

But God has given different direction in different dispensations. Did God tell Noah to build an ark? Yes. Did God give that direction to Abraham? No. All are God's words but He has given different direction throughout the course of human history. When the Church is gone, God's direction will change for those who are left on the earth.

seed_time_harvest · Jan 16, 2016

John146 said:

seed_time_harvest said:

Is salvation by grace through faith alone whether you are jewish or gentile?

JaumeJ · Jan 17, 2016

In response to the title of this OP, the hook that is.

Yes, faith alone for faith leads to good works.........without faith, the gift of works is not.

mailmandan · Jan 17, 2016

plaintalk said:

The physical response in Genesis 22 followed receiving salvation and justification in Genesis 15 and were years apart, but I never said these events were unrelated. As I already explained, Abraham was accounted as righteous because of his faith and not his works (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar and demonstrated the reality of his faith and was "shown to be righteous" in Genesis 22. You seem determined to put the cart before the horse and have Abraham saved by works.

Not by works of any kind and not just specific works of the law. *Since the law was given some 430 years after Abraham, your "not saved by works of the law" but "saved by good works" argument falls apart. Romans 4:2 clearly says - For IF Abraham was justified by works, (Paul is talking about in a legal sense) he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness." *Keep reading. 4 - Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works. *That is crystal clear plain talk.

James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith (SAYS-CLAIMS to have faith but has NO works/I will SHOW you my faith by my works James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

The scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. That does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on the merits of accomplishing the work of offering up Isaac on the altar. When Abraham performed the work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

I never said that Genesis 22:12 was not applicable or not relevant to Genesis 15:6. I simply said that Abraham's faith was accounted to him for righteousness in Genesis 15:6 many years before Genesis 22:12. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save his soul, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. That is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works, "shown to be righteous."

*Your solution still equates to salvation by works and falls apart in Romans 4:2-6. A better solution, with scriptural support, is when Paul uses the term "justified," he is referring to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the sinner as righteous (Romans 3:24; 4:2-6; 5:1) and James is using the term to describe those who would prove the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do (James 2:14-24). Once again, James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous" not accounted as righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

I previously had already thoroughly explained 1 Thessalonians 1:3 to you and Romans 1:5. It's obedience/works produced "out of" faith, not faith is this obedience/works. You can't seem to make a distinction between faith AND obedience/works which FOLLOW faith and there is a reason for that. *Prior to my conversion, I didn't understand the difference either.

It's not surprising if we correctly understand that faith is the root and works are the fruit of justification by faith. Works bear out the justification that already came by faith. I'm not surprised that you remain confused and believe that we are saved by BOTH faith AND works.

Faith that saves is (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ for salvation. Multiple acts of obedience that include acts of love which follow faith are WORKS and we are NOT saved by works. If you believe in Christ as the all sufficient means of your salvation, then you are trusting in Him alone to save you. Even though this belief results in actions appropriate to the belief - the actions are NOT INHERENT in the belief. By saying that faith in not one dimensional, merely believing, you are basically saying that works are inherent in faith and that we are saved by BOTH faith AND works. Because of your UNBELIEF, you remain in bondage to works salvation.

I already previously explained this to you. Paul is stressing the importance of love and not teaching salvation through faith "plus love." Did Paul say saved through faith "and love" in Ephesians 2:8? Faith that does not work through love is not genuine faith. Just like faith that claims to be genuine yet produces no good works is not genuine saving faith but is an empty profession of faith, a dead faith (James 2:14-18). Faith works through love (Galatians 5:6), but we are saved through faith, not faith plus love. As Paul points out in 1 Corinthians 13, love is the greater quality of faith, hope and love because God is love and it outlasts them all. Long after faith and hope are no longer necessary, love will still be the governing principle that controls all that God and his redeemed people are and do.

Abraham obeyed God in Genesis 12 when he left his country to a land that God showed him, but it was not until Genesis 15:5 when God brought Abraham outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be." 6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness. James talks about faith being perfected in James 2:22, but this was in regards to Genesis 22. James 2:21 - Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect. Once again, faith made perfect or complete does not mean saved by works. Faith made perfect or completed by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18.

Amen!

Faith is reckoned for righteousness FIRST and then the physical response of offering Isaac on the altar followed AFTERWARDS. His faith did not remain alone. It was accompanied by love and works of faith, but it was by simply believing God that his faith was reckoned for righteousness (Genesis 15:5-6; Romans 4:2-3).

The faith of Abraham was acceptable to God the moment that he believed God in Genesis 15:6, even before he offered up Isaac on the altar, just as our faith is acceptable to God the moment that we place our faith in Christ alone for salvation before we accomplish good works. So what am I supposed to do with you plain talk? I have repeatedly showed you from the scriptures that salvation is through faith and is not by works, yet you seem determined to twist the scriptures and teach that we are saved through faith AND works. When will you finally BELIEVE?

John146 · Jan 17, 2016

seed_time_harvest said:

John146 · Jan 17, 2016

The question of James 2 is not will works follow faith, but rather, can faith save him? James says you need both to justify salvation, Paul says faith alone. When one does not rightly divide, you try to make both Romans and James fit. In doing so, you have to explain away what James means instead of reading, believing what he said.

mailmandan · Jan 17, 2016

John146 said:

The harmony of Ephesians 2:8,9; Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the sinner as righteous (Romans 3:24; 5:1). James, however is using the term to describe those who would prove the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do.

Man is saved through faith and not works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24). The word "alone" in regards to salvation through faith "in Christ alone" conveys the message that Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*

John146 · Jan 17, 2016

mailmandan said:

The harmony of Ephesians 2:8,9; Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the sinner as righteous (Romans 3:24; 5:1). James, however is using the term to describe those who would prove the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do.

Man is saved through faith and not works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24). The word "alone" in regards to salvation through faith "in Christ alone" conveys the message that Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*

I get all that you said but still the question at hand in James is "can faith SAVE him?" James says salvation is justified by works and not faith only. How do works justify and to who?

John146 · Jan 17, 2016

How much works justify a man's salvation?

JaumeJ · Jan 17, 2016

No amount of works justifies or saves a soul, but faith alone. Now, as is wrtten in the Word of God, faith without works is no faith at all. When anyone has faith, a gift from the Father, he will acti upon it according to what is given him by God. That is, he will do good works.

No, works cannot save a soul, but a soul is dead without good works. Know what good works are, for many here have some twisted idea that works are dreamed up by the individual......this simply is not so. I learned this by experience, beyond having learned it from the Word. I pray to always be given good works from the Father, for to serve Him is good works in any manner He presents each of us.

I would like the any hypocrites to stop equating good works generated by the gift of faith with earning anything at all. Good works are our due, never something from us, rather assumed by our new nature as our due.

mailmandan · Jan 17, 2016

John146 said:

We read in James 2:14 of one who "says-caims he has faith" but has no works (to back up his claim). This is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" He is simply speaking against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. We show our faith by our works (James 2:18). What James means by "faith only" is an empty profession of faith that "remains alone" (solitary, unfruitful, barren) of works. Not to be confused with faith that "trusts in Christ alone for salvation" and results in producing good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). "Justified by works" in James 2:24 does not mean saved by works. We need to read this verse in context.

mailmandan · Jan 17, 2016

John146 said:

It's not about, "do I have enough works," but "do I have the right kind of faith." Faith that trusts in Christ alone for salvation. All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful. The thief on the cross came to faith in Christ moments before he died that same day, with no opportunity to produce multiple good works. He was not even able to get water baptized, yet we see that Jesus told him that today he would be with Him in Paradise. The thief rebuked the other thief, defended the Lord, and asked in faith for Jesus to remember him when He comes into His kingdom (Luke 23:40-43). That's all it took.

Faith Alone?

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