Faith Alone?

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Hoffco

Guest
#81
To E-g YES right.! SOOO ,lets stop saying "faith alone". To B is Fallen, Go back to God, the creator. GOD produces nature. God cursed us with a sINFUL nature because of Adams sin; GOD is the only one who can recreate us a NEW nature, New Birth is from GOD not man's will or faith. BUT GOD. Please remember Rom.8:30 GOD,s "Calling" comes before "Justified".
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#82
To H-G, all true scriptures, but ,in light of Romans 8-11, Where does faith come from, JUST hearing the WORK, OR, where does saving faith and saving works come from? the GIFT of GOD? Faith can not be separated from works, the action of faith,Heb !! "by Faith noah built the ark", worked.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#83
SORRY ,wrong word, faith does not come from just hearing the Word, not work.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#84
Faith, according to Jesus is a work, "this is the work of God", believing in Jesus is the first work of the saved soul.! Paul says,"grace", "for the obedience (work) of faith." Rom.1:5 Also "the work of faith", and "labor of love" 1Thess1:3
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#85
Faith, according to Jesus is a work, "this is the work of God", believing in Jesus is the first work of the saved soul.! Paul says,"grace", "for the obedience (work) of faith." Rom.1:5 Also "the work of faith", and "labor of love" 1Thess1:3
Faith is a work of God.

Not ur work.. not my work. not anyone elses work.

However, True faith will produce true works. It is all powered by God though.

it still remains, we are saved by faith alone, through grace alone.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
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#86
Faith, according to Jesus is a work, "this is the work of God", believing in Jesus is the first work of the saved soul.! Paul says,"grace", "for the obedience (work) of faith." Rom.1:5 Also "the work of faith", and "labor of love" 1Thess1:3
Jesus did not mean that faith was a 'work'. He was using a play on words. He was saying to them 'you concentrate on how you can do works. But what will please God is if you have faith.

But they could not make themselves believe. They could not even choose to believe. Belief would come from seeing and hearing Jesus in such a way that they came to believe because of what they saw and heard. It represented a believing response to Christ because they were convinced. Once they were convinced they would then have faith without their doing anything else.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#87
Jesus did not mean that faith was a 'work'. He was using a play on words. He was saying to them 'you concentrate on how you can do works. But what will please God is if you have faith.

But they could not make themselves believe. They could not even choose to believe. Belief would come from seeing and hearing Jesus in such a way that they came to believe because of what they saw and heard. It represented a believing response to Christ because they were convinced. Once they were convinced they would then have faith without their doing anything else.
Not true. Believing into Christ is THE work of GOD.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#88
Faith, according to Jesus is a work, "this is the work of God", believing in Jesus is the first work of the saved soul.! Paul says,"grace", "for the obedience (work) of faith." Rom.1:5 Also "the work of faith", and "labor of love" 1Thess1:3
Faith is not just another work in a series of works in a quest to receive salvation by works.

In regards to Romans 1:5, although Paul can speak of people's initial response of coming to faith in Christ as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as "obeying the gospel" (Romans 10:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were consistently obedient to God. Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR or UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR or UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT by good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). In Romans 1:5, Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced "enough" obedience. We have access by FAITH into GRACE.. (Romans 5:2) not faith "and obedience." We are saved through faith first, then "unto" obedience/good works.

In 1 Thessalonians 1:3, notice the words "work of" faith, "labor of" love and "patience of" hope. These are the practical outworking of the Thessalonians' conversion. The "work" the Thessalonians do is a result or consequence of their faith. So too their "labor" flows from love and their "endurance" comes from hope. Work "of" faith does not mean that faith in essence is the work accomplished. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1). Their work accomplished is a result or consequence "of" their faith. The work done is "of" faith or done "out of" faith. Faith was already established at conversion and then the work followed as a result or consequence "of" their faith.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#89
None of you are thinking Biblically , because you are exulting man's faith over God's grace. your order is Faith. Grace then works. NO WAY.! the order is by GRACE thru faith, the one gift of God,"unto works" the other gift of God, both as a result of the new birth. Our seeking faith is not saving faith, a faith of commitment ,is saving faith ,It is a Faith that works, saves. Only trusting Jesus is not a saving faith, unless it commits to obey Jesus.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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#90
Sorry to digress from the topic a bit. Just seeing this made me miss lady Redtent a little. Hope she is well and Jesus keeps watch over her.
 

Crustyone

Senior Member
Mar 15, 2015
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#91
You must remember that God will judge us by what we have done. These deeds have to be the works of faith and the more the better. No evil deeds to be judged because of our justification by faith. Romans 10:9-10 tell us that we must profess our faith to be saved. Justification and salvation are two different things.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#92
OK OK, I agree, salvation is not by faith alone...it also takes God's grace!
 
Oct 21, 2015
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#93
You must remember that God will judge us by what we have done. These deeds have to be the works of faith and the more the better. No evil deeds to be judged because of our justification by faith. Romans 10:9-10 tell us that we must profess our faith to be saved. Justification and salvation are two different things.
A born again christians works decide their rewards in heaven, not whether they will attain to heaven

I tell you the truth, anyone who hear my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not bs condemned. Hw has passed over from death to life
John 5:24
When the christian does not live as they should, they suffer with great unhappiness in their life, they don't get away with not acting as they should for they have been born again of the spirit. They have no rest or peace or true happiness when they deliberately go their own way at tines, they bring suffering upon themself. But Christ remains faithful to those who are faithless( being faithless to the christian walk) for he cannot disown himself(2tim2:13)
Christ will only disown you if you disown him, being faithless in your walk due to pandering to the flesh is not disowning him
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#94
I will leave you with scripture: Rom.1:5 "...grace...for the obedience to the faith" Rom.2:God ..."will render to each one according to his deeds. v7.Eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;" v.8 "But to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness=indignation and wrath."v11."For there is no partiality with God." v13 "(For not the hearers o the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified:" Rom.6:22 "But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness and the end, everlasting life." Please, Just read God's word and open your heart to be taught by the Spirit.!
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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#95
When we are given examples of faith in scripture, it also talks of how faith is exercised.

Abel offered an acceptable sacrifice by faith.
Enoch was translated by faith.
Noah prepared the ark by faith.
Abraham went into a strange land by faith.
Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau prophetically by faith.
Jacob blessed the sons of Joseph prophetically by faith.
Joseph prophesied of Israel’s departure from Egypt by faith.
Moses was hid as a baby by faith.
Moses kept the Passover by faith.
The Red Sea parted by faith.
The walls of Jericho fell by faith.
Rehab, the harlot, saved herself and her family by faith.
Gideon delivered Israel from the Midianites by faith.
Daniel stopped the mouths of lions by faith.
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego quenched the violence of fire by faith.

When scripture was written in Hebrew so ancient it was in pictograph, the picture of faith was of an arm driving a nail in a wall. It was doing based on something as solid as a wall. We are told faith without works in dead.

Yet, I never hear of anyone talk about faith and doing together. I have only heard that it is faith alone. This would say that faith is to be applied to what we do in our life, that faith is to be used as the root of our actions.
Amen, Faith and obedience are linked in scripture. The Idea of Faith without obedience is a foreign concept to the bible.

True Faith/Trust always has real action.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#96
None of you are thinking Biblically , because you are exulting man's faith over God's grace. your order is Faith. Grace then works. NO WAY.! the order is by GRACE thru faith, the one gift of God,"unto works" the other gift of God, both as a result of the new birth. Our seeking faith is not saving faith, a faith of commitment ,is saving faith ,It is a Faith that works, saves. Only trusting Jesus is not a saving faith, unless it commits to obey Jesus.
This is prety sad.

Trusting Jesus alone is saving faith, your trusting him to save your eternal soul because you have come to the point of humility which says your lost with no hope because you have sinned against God.

This "living faith" Produces work.

Your to busy trying to insert yourself into the equation, you totally disrespect Gods part in the equation. and what he did..

 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#97
You must remember that God will judge us by what we have done. These deeds have to be the works of faith and the more the better. No evil deeds to be judged because of our justification by faith. Romans 10:9-10 tell us that we must profess our faith to be saved. Justification and salvation are two different things.

Um no. Justifaction is salvation. We are saved BECAUSE we are justified, Not because we had more good works than we had bad works. that is the lie of satan.


We are justified by faith, and when we have faith, we call on the name of the lord. and at that time, we are justified (saved)
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,292
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#98
None of you are thinking Biblically , because you are exulting man's faith over God's grace. your order is Faith. Grace then works. NO WAY.! the order is by GRACE thru faith, the one gift of God,"unto works" the other gift of God, both as a result of the new birth. Our seeking faith is not saving faith, a faith of commitment ,is saving faith ,It is a Faith that works, saves. Only trusting Jesus is not a saving faith, unless it commits to obey Jesus.
The order is saved by grace through faith, not works, created in Christ Jesus unto/for good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Faith that saves trusts exclusively in Jesus for salvation. Faith is the root and obeying Jesus/good works is the fruit of salvation. No fruit at all would demonstrate that there is no root. All Christians are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,292
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#99
I will leave you with scripture: Rom.1:5 "...grace...for the obedience to the faith"
Again, notice Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT by good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). In Romans 1:5, Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced "enough" obedience. We have access by FAITH into GRACE.. (Romans 5:2) not faith "and obedience." We are saved through faith first (root of salvation), then "unto" obedience/good works (fruit of salvation).

Rom.2:God ..."will render to each one according to his deeds. v7.Eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;" v.8 "But to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness=indignation and wrath."v11."For there is no partiality with God."
If one reads Romans 2:6-10 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works. However, as you read and study these passages, it is imperative to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved conduct their lives. These deeds done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving salvation. So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal. Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath. Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9). What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means of our salvation, but the type of deeds expose whether our heart was saved, or not. These good deeds done out of faith are the fruit, not the root of our salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works/deeds in Ephesians 2:8 and that we are justified by faith and works/deeds in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. Good deeds are produced out of faith, thus "everyone who does good." Deeds produced without faith are tainted with sin, thus "everyone who does evil." Without faith it is impossible to please God.

v13 "(For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified:"
Are you seeking justification by the law? Verse 13 is often used by people (Roman Catholics, Mormons, etc.,) to say that we must obey the law (along with faith in Jesus) to be saved, but this isn’t so. Paul was talking to the Jews (Romans 2:17) about their judging of the Gentiles and then points them to their own law (standard of judgment) and hypocrisy and tells them that the doers of the Law are just before God (v. 13). The standard they wanted was to obey the law. They failed to understand that they could only be justified by the law BY PERFECTLY OBEYING ALL OF IT but they and all of us have failed. Paul was showing the self-righteous Jews who judged the Gentiles that they were not able to keep a perfect standard. They were hypocrites. This is why Paul tells us in the very next chapter in Romans 3:28 that we are justified by faith apart from the works of the law. No one is able to perfectly obey the law. If you fail even once, then you become guilty of it all.
Romans 3:20 - Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Galatians 2:16 - knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. *Crystal clear. *You need to properly harmonize Scripture with Scripture before reaching your conclusions.

Rom.6:22 "But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness and the end, everlasting life." Please, Just read God's word and open your heart to be taught by the Spirit.!
You misinterpret this verse to mean that good works/fruit is the actual means of our salvation. The NAS reads - But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. There are three tenses to salvation. 1. Justification 2. Sanctification 3. Glorification. These three tenses often get mixed up by works salvationists. You have your fruit unto sanctification (ecete ton karpon umwn ei agiasmon). Freedom from sin and slavery to God bring permanent fruit that leads to sanctification. And the end eternal life (to de telo zwhn aiwnion).
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Again, notice Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT by good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). In Romans 1:5, Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced "enough" obedience. We have access by FAITH into GRACE.. (Romans 5:2) not faith "and obedience." We are saved through faith first (root of salvation), then "unto" obedience/good works (fruit of salvation).

If one reads Romans 2:6-10 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works. However, as you read and study these passages, it is imperative to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved conduct their lives. These deeds done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving salvation. So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal. Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath. Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9). What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means of our salvation, but the type of deeds expose whether our heart was saved, or not. These good deeds done out of faith are the fruit, not the root of our salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works/deeds in Ephesians 2:8 and that we are justified by faith and works/deeds in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. Good deeds are produced out of faith, thus "everyone who does good." Deeds produced without faith are tainted with sin, thus "everyone who does evil." Without faith it is impossible to please God.

Are you seeking justification by the law? Verse 13 is often used by people (Roman Catholics, Mormons, etc.,) to say that we must obey the law (along with faith in Jesus) to be saved, but this isn’t so. Paul was talking to the Jews (Romans 2:17) about their judging of the Gentiles and then points them to their own law (standard of judgment) and hypocrisy and tells them that the doers of the Law are just before God (v. 13). The standard they wanted was to obey the law. They failed to understand that they could only be justified by the law BY PERFECTLY OBEYING ALL OF IT but they and all of us have failed. Paul was showing the self-righteous Jews who judged the Gentiles that they were not able to keep a perfect standard. They were hypocrites. This is why Paul tells us in the very next chapter in Romans 3:28 that we are justified by faith apart from the works of the law. No one is able to perfectly obey the law. If you fail even once, then you become guilty of it all.
Romans 3:20 - Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Galatians 2:16 - knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. *Crystal clear. *You need to properly harmonize Scripture with Scripture before reaching your conclusions.

You misinterpret this verse to mean that good works/fruit is the actual means of our salvation. The NAS reads - But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. There are three tenses to salvation. 1. Justification 2. Sanctification 3. Glorification. These three tenses often get mixed up by works salvationists. You have your fruit unto sanctification (ecete ton karpon umwn ei agiasmon). Freedom from sin and slavery to God bring permanent fruit that leads to sanctification. And the end eternal life (to de telo zwhn aiwnion).

I keep trying to give ya a rep. but it says i have to spread it around some first.

So here is a rep bro. keep preaching it.