Faith is our righteousness - Christ is our sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins

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FreeNChrist

Guest
#121
#121
PeterJens said:
In all honesty I am not putting difficult points to you. I wonder how deep your faith actually goes. I would die for my outlook and what God has done in my life. I do not regard this as a game or joke. It is also sad you regard someone who just takes Jesus at his word is lost. I would suggest it is theology and doctrine which have blinded you to the simplicity of forgiveness and love.
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Who are you? Who are you to wonder how deep my faith goes? Like I said, watch your step.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#122
#122
ember said:
ps:

I'm neither Calvinist nor Arminian so I don't have a dog in that fight

I'm just your basic every day Bible believing Christ follower but I can smell a funny doctrine from far away even if I can't put my finger on it right away
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I'm neither Calvinist or Arminian either. I'm a Christian.

But, interestingly, they both condemn Pelagianism as heresy.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#123
#123
ember said:
so if my neighbor who is an atheist behaves well, he has proof of faith?

whaa?

I don't usually take a statement and turn it into a question that showcases the fallacy of the statement, but in this case I am making an exception
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don't forget all the jews, who tithed, Obeyed the sabaath, Were considered the most moral people of their day.. The ones Jesus continually had to fight, because they placed religion over God.
 
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valiant

Senior Member
#124
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#124
Much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ (rom 5.17)

So one man's act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men (rom 5.18)

He has been made unto us wisdom from God, even righteousness. sanctification and redemption (1 Cor 1.30),

He Who knew no sin, was made sin for us (imputed), that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him (imputed)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#125
#125
FreeNChrist said:
Right. If it's just about behavior, most anyone can be trained to behave.
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and if we water down the law enough Everyone of our family will make it to heaven..

Just believe in Jesus, and don't fall below this mark, and your in.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#126
#126
valiant said:
Much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ (rom 5.17)

So one man's act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men (rom 5.18)

He has been made unto us wisdom from God, even righteousness. sanctification and redemption (1 Cor 1.30),

He Who knew no sin, was made sin for us (imputed), that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him (imputed)
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Thank you Jesus.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#127
#127
PeterJens said:
John is talking about people who deny that Christ came in the flesh etc. Not all heresies or problems come in this way.
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No he is talking about those who deny Christ period..

You sure know how to take a passage of scripture and screw it up..

EG for instance condemns his fathers church and all the people there, me and many others who I would call believers.
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No, I condemn no one, I condemn the gospel of works..

How many times do you have to be told that.

There comes a point where you say people have chosen this position, and rejected all others, so it cannot be about faith but something personal to themselves. They maybe saved but just lost the plot along the way.
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There has to come a time, where you take God literally. When he says you will never die, he means it.

Maybe you will see this truth some day. Maybe you will not. All we can do is pray
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#128
#128
PeterJens said:
Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”
Matt 7:24-27

Jesus believed in changed behaviour because of choice.

Now if Jesus is into this I am into this because I follow Jesus. Jesus did not say I will change you being so will just do these things automatically by some mystical intervention. He said because you love me, you will do these things and I will love you too.
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You have to first make a choice to have Jesus save you. Otherwise all you have is bloody rags.. Human good. Self righteousness. Which will be rejected by God.

Those who come to Christ, and repent, made that choice, To build there house on the rock (Christ)
 
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valiant

Senior Member
#129
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#129
PeterJens said:
Got to say, missing the difference to faith counted as righteousness and righteousness of Jesus counting his sacrifice as worthy for all. Maybe this distinction is too much for some, clearly that is true.

If one accepts Jesus's righteousness is given as a gift to us, then it does not matter what we do. If you hold that once you have faith you are counted as perfect before God, then you can enter heaven with no change.

The trouble with certain ways of discussing such an issue, just making fun is not an answer. I have never held to imputed righteousness to us, because people do not teach it from scripture, it only seems to come up when talking calvanism.

We were talking about sin before, but all sin was forgiven through the cross, so righteousness was not an issue at all.
I find that interesting that those believers did not think imputed righteousness was relevant. So I wonder who actually holds to this doctrine and why?
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The bible says:

Much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ (rom 5.17)

So one man's act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men (rom 5.18)

He has been made unto us wisdom from God, even righteousness. sanctification and redemption (1 Cor 1.30),

He Who knew no sin, was made sin for us (imputed), that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him (imputed)

His righteousness, not ours
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#130
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#130
FreeNChrist said:
Trying to label me a Calvinist does nothing to lessen the reality or severity of your heretical beliefs.
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Sorry maybe you are not calvanist. You obviously do not like the concept of ability, free will. You do not like the idea people are born with love in their hearts, or that the key to the gospel is love shown through the cross which transforms the believer to repent, and walk in righteousness.

I got to say what I believe is based on my experience and discussion with many others over time. What I am happy with is when people can be clear why they believe certain things and why. I used to think revival would come, but now I doubt it severly, because people no longer agree what faith actually is, and conviction of sin on a mass scale is probably now no longer a thing people can about. In this community here sin is not the issue, miracles or command authority seems more something they want to concentrate on, while the church is shrinking, because emotional reality and love are missing in the experience and expression of those who remain.

But then I am the heretic, or the one with the religious spirit, or the unrepentant legalist or whatever adjective of rejection you care to come up with. It feels like Jesus coming to his own people and finding they do not like the light about sin and reality, and would rather walk in their compromises and theology.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#131
#131
PeterJens said:
I understand from a deeply calvanistic theology, .
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There you go lying again. and proving you do not understand a thing we beieve

Stop yelling at everyone for slandering you, when you refuse to take your own medicine.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#132
#132
ember said:
ps:

I'm neither Calvinist nor Arminian so I don't have a dog in that fight

I'm just your basic every day Bible believing Christ follower but I can smell a funny doctrine from far away even if I can't put my finger on it right away
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People like Peter will never understand this.. They think we must all follow men.. Not God.. so we must be one or the other, unless we are catholic..
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#133
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
48
#133
True fruit/sanctification is only possible when we have a deep love for God and we only love Him because he first loved us. This is the key, it is the love of God seen in Christ and him crucified that causes a love response in us. Greater love has no man than to lay down his life for a friend. Jesus did this for us.

Thus the only way to be sanctified to bear the fruit of holiness is to stand daily in the merits of a crucified and risen savior. to remember our first love and in this we will desire to serve Him. Delight to serve Him as our beloved husband. The whole law is fulfilled in this word, LOVE. Love is the key and it starts with Jesus.

He that does not love does not know God because God is love.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#134
#134
PeterJens said:
Sorry maybe you are not calvanist. You obviously do not like the concept of ability, free will. You do not like the idea people are born with love in their hearts,
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We love because CHrist loved us.

We did not know how to love when we were born. So no. You are in error.

Try to read the bible. and stop listening to men, religion has you brainwashed.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#135
#135
PeterJens said:
Sorry maybe you are not calvanist. You obviously do not like the concept of ability, free will. You do not like the idea people are born with love in their hearts, or that the key to the gospel is love shown through the cross which transforms the believer to repent, and walk in righteousness.

I got to say what I believe is based on my experience and discussion with many others over time. What I am happy with is when people can be clear why they believe certain things and why. I used to think revival would come, but now I doubt it severly, because people no longer agree what faith actually is, and conviction of sin on a mass scale is probably now no longer a thing people can about. In this community here sin is not the issue, miracles or command authority seems more something they want to concentrate on, while the church is shrinking, because emotional reality and love are missing in the experience and expression of those who remain.

But then I am the heretic, or the one with the religious spirit, or the unrepentant legalist or whatever adjective of rejection you care to come up with. It feels like Jesus coming to his own people and finding they do not like the light about sin and reality, and would rather walk in their compromises and theology.
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You obviously think very highly of yourself if you think God needs your ability.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#136
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#136
There is something drastically wrong when you say something to someone over 50 x times and they still say the opposite of what is being said. It's a major deception happening in their minds or they are just being dis-honest. Either way there comes a time to leave them into God's hands and to the word of His grace.
 
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psalm6819

Guest
#138
#138
PeterJens said:
EG I got to laugh. You do not read what I write or you are lying about it. Why do you want to slander me?
Where in your mind do you think if I say I am saved by faith alone that I believe I earn my salvation?
It is simply lying and not reading what I am writing. Now you can ofcourse in your own mind say "He is a legalist, so though he says that he is actually justifying himself" but that is in your head and nothing to do with me.

Now you have serious problem if you call another believer a liar, and doing something other than what they are telling you.
That is called slander which is a sin. I know you have no problems saying people are lying when they state what has happened to them, but this reflects on you own world and not the honesty and integrity of others.
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I didn't see EG calling you names-I saw him quoting you then addressing each specific issue........
 
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ember

Guest
#139
#139
eternally-gratefull said:

don't forget all the jews, who tithed, Obeyed the sabaath, Were considered the most moral people of their day.. The ones Jesus continually had to fight, because they placed religion over God.
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just so

many folk who don't even believe in God are actually quite moral
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#140
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#140
Imputed righteousness relies on phrases linked to our salvation. Jesus is the living sacrifice for sins because of His righteousness, holiness and grace. You can always extend that from the present into the future.

The problem is you are in effect saying the believer is irrelevant. Some go as far as to say you do not even choose to believe.
You cannot choose to leave, so in the extreme version, there is nothing to do, you are what you are, you will become what you will become. For me this is faith gone mad and too removed from actual life.

We hold Jesus matters because people change. This change is towards life and love. This is what we all desire christian and non-christian which is why it is a light in the darkness. But now it has got to no action unless it is the Spirit rather than preaching Jesus's words and seeing it in action in the believers lives. But somehow this is evil, talking about getting peoples lives straight, confessing sin repenting and walking in love and Jesus's commands. Does that not sound odd that doing what Jesus says we should do is thought of as evil?

For me that is the definition of anti-Christ, teaching the words of Christ are not relevant.

Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Matt 24:35

So what Jesus says has eternal significance. Odd if it was only for the Jews.
 
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