Fallacies of the Present Day Church
- Thread starter Skinski7
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I have never claimed Christ paid a debt to Satan. I wish people would actually read what I say and not READ INTO what I say and set up straw positions.
Why was their a blood atonement for sins committed in ignorance? God wants people to take seriously when they err. We cannot simply brush off an unintentional sin because such things needs to be corrected. 1Joh 2:1 teaches we have an advocate for sins committed in this way (due to context) while Heb 10:26 says there is no sacrifice remaining for willful sin.
Jesus died for all sin but the sin which brings condemnation is WILLFUL SIN.
Jesus taught that the condemnation was the REJECTION OF THE LIGHT as recorded in John 3 when He was speaking to Nicodemus.
You brought up Romans 3...
Rom 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
The context of that passage is a comparison between the Gentiles and the Jews which concludes that ALL PEOPLE need a saviour no matter what people group they come from.
There are plenty of examples of righteous people in the Bible, in fact John plainly write that...
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
We read in Luke...
Luk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Paul is actually quoting from the Psalm's in Romans 3 and the context is clearly in relation to wicked people.
Psa 14:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psa 14:2 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
Psa 14:3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Abel was righteous...
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Noah was righteous.
Gen 7:1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Yes Romans 5:12 says all HAVE sinned. It doesn't mean all KEEP ON SINNING (ie. willful sin). Jesus said "Go and Sin No More" and that is what we are to do.
The bottom line of my message is that people need to FORSAKE ALL WILLFUL SIN through a GODLY SORROW that works a genuine repentance unto salvation. It is only when WE lay aside all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness that we can receive the implanted word within which is able to save out souls.
That is what the Bible teaches.
We are to DIE WITH CHRIST that we be RAISED UP WITH HIM BY THE POWER OF GOD whereby we WALK IN VICTORY having been SET FREE from the bondage of sin.
The blood of Jesus Christ only cleanses you of all unrighteousness on the condition that you are walking in the light as He is in the light.
The fallacies listed in my first post completely negate what I just mentioned above because they teach that you can be saved and in sin at the same time.
Why was their a blood atonement for sins committed in ignorance? God wants people to take seriously when they err. We cannot simply brush off an unintentional sin because such things needs to be corrected. 1Joh 2:1 teaches we have an advocate for sins committed in this way (due to context) while Heb 10:26 says there is no sacrifice remaining for willful sin.
Jesus died for all sin but the sin which brings condemnation is WILLFUL SIN.
Jesus taught that the condemnation was the REJECTION OF THE LIGHT as recorded in John 3 when He was speaking to Nicodemus.
You brought up Romans 3...
Rom 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
The context of that passage is a comparison between the Gentiles and the Jews which concludes that ALL PEOPLE need a saviour no matter what people group they come from.
There are plenty of examples of righteous people in the Bible, in fact John plainly write that...
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
We read in Luke...
Luk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Paul is actually quoting from the Psalm's in Romans 3 and the context is clearly in relation to wicked people.
Psa 14:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psa 14:2 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
Psa 14:3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Abel was righteous...
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Noah was righteous.
Gen 7:1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Yes Romans 5:12 says all HAVE sinned. It doesn't mean all KEEP ON SINNING (ie. willful sin). Jesus said "Go and Sin No More" and that is what we are to do.
The bottom line of my message is that people need to FORSAKE ALL WILLFUL SIN through a GODLY SORROW that works a genuine repentance unto salvation. It is only when WE lay aside all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness that we can receive the implanted word within which is able to save out souls.
That is what the Bible teaches.
We are to DIE WITH CHRIST that we be RAISED UP WITH HIM BY THE POWER OF GOD whereby we WALK IN VICTORY having been SET FREE from the bondage of sin.
The blood of Jesus Christ only cleanses you of all unrighteousness on the condition that you are walking in the light as He is in the light.
The fallacies listed in my first post completely negate what I just mentioned above because they teach that you can be saved and in sin at the same time.
Well what did Jesus say?
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Here he was talking about false prophets and how they can be identified, by their fruit.
Jesus also spoke of producing fruit here...
Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
Here the context was in regards to the inward man, ie. the heart. In a similar vein Jesus taught...
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
In Jesus there is no sin and those who have the seed of Jesus Christ within therefore produce good fruit. Those who sin are of the devil and those who do what is right are righteous.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
It is very simple to understand.
Any person who has any sort of willful sin in their life IS NOT saved. They may be under conviction but they are still in BONDAGE to the passions and desires of their flesh. Their old man HAS NOT been crucified.
The false teachers would tell you otherwise for they teach salvation as an abstract package which is totally separated from the deeds done in the body. In other words, they teach that a Christian produces good and bad fruit.
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Here he was talking about false prophets and how they can be identified, by their fruit.
Jesus also spoke of producing fruit here...
Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
Here the context was in regards to the inward man, ie. the heart. In a similar vein Jesus taught...
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
In Jesus there is no sin and those who have the seed of Jesus Christ within therefore produce good fruit. Those who sin are of the devil and those who do what is right are righteous.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
It is very simple to understand.
Any person who has any sort of willful sin in their life IS NOT saved. They may be under conviction but they are still in BONDAGE to the passions and desires of their flesh. Their old man HAS NOT been crucified.
The false teachers would tell you otherwise for they teach salvation as an abstract package which is totally separated from the deeds done in the body. In other words, they teach that a Christian produces good and bad fruit.
A
ok then if a person sins willfully he is not saved. Hmmm
Then when Peter was a coward and a hypocrite with the gentile eating thing
he was not saved?
The man who was thrown out of the church to be beat about by satan wasnt saved?
So how does this work? When someone receives the gospel, they never willfully sin from day one?
In otherwards salvation brings perfection?
Then when Peter was a coward and a hypocrite with the gentile eating thing
he was not saved?
The man who was thrown out of the church to be beat about by satan wasnt saved?
So how does this work? When someone receives the gospel, they never willfully sin from day one?
In otherwards salvation brings perfection?
Is that so?
Jesus indeed ransomed His people and set them free from the bondage of sin.
Mar_10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Redeem G3084
λυτρόω
lutroō
loo-tro'-o
From G3083; to ransom (literally or figuratively): - redeem.
Hos_13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.
Jesus indeed ransomed His people and set them free from the bondage of sin.
Mar_10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Redeem G3084
λυτρόω
lutroō
loo-tro'-o
From G3083; to ransom (literally or figuratively): - redeem.
Hos_13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.
You must believe that a child molester who gets saved can still occasionally molest the odd child every now and then right?
That is what you are clearly implying.
Peter was chastised for his misconduct by Paul. Peter repented and forsook that conduct and was thus reconciled to God.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Heb_12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Can you address my first point about the child molester? Isn't it true that you believe in a Gospel where a child molester can still abuse children and remain saved?
You might say that he "should stop" or will "desire to stop" or "will hate his sin" etc. Yet I bet you cannot say that the sin MUST STOP.
You see salvation is not simply being released from condemnation for past sins. Salvation is being set free from the BONDAGE of sin. That is why when we suffer with Christ, putting on the same mind, we cease from sin (willful sin). We may fall short through ignorance or carelessness but willful rebellion is out of the question for that reveals a defiled heart whereby only a genuine broken repentance and the resulting crucifixion of the flesh will put an end to that.
God does not save you in your sins any more than God set Israel free and left them in bondage in Egypt. Paul made both roads very clear...
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
The question is do you believe it?
That is what you are clearly implying.
Peter was chastised for his misconduct by Paul. Peter repented and forsook that conduct and was thus reconciled to God.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Heb_12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Can you address my first point about the child molester? Isn't it true that you believe in a Gospel where a child molester can still abuse children and remain saved?
You might say that he "should stop" or will "desire to stop" or "will hate his sin" etc. Yet I bet you cannot say that the sin MUST STOP.
You see salvation is not simply being released from condemnation for past sins. Salvation is being set free from the BONDAGE of sin. That is why when we suffer with Christ, putting on the same mind, we cease from sin (willful sin). We may fall short through ignorance or carelessness but willful rebellion is out of the question for that reveals a defiled heart whereby only a genuine broken repentance and the resulting crucifixion of the flesh will put an end to that.
God does not save you in your sins any more than God set Israel free and left them in bondage in Egypt. Paul made both roads very clear...
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
The question is do you believe it?
M
And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,
Colossians 2:13
There are other passages as well, but God forgives us of all of our sins. That means past present and future sins. If you say that God doesn't forgive future sins, then you say that God doesn't forgive all sins.
How is it possible for God to forgive past present and future sins? Rather, perhaps I should ask you how you can believe that you are forgiven if you reject that God doesn't forgive future sins. Jesus died for us 2000 years ago for our sins. That would be a past event that forgives future sins. So if you deny that God forgives future sins, then you'd have to say that every sin that happened after Jesus died is not forgiven, since those were all future sins.
It is by nature that we are sinful. We can't stop sinning on our own. So to teach that you have to stop sinning in order to get saved is to teach something not only impossible, but also not biblical. Also, teaching that one cannot stop sinning doesn't automatically equate to teaching a license to sin as much as you want. You would have to stretch what is being said to extremist standpoints to reach the conclusion of a license to sin.
There is nothing man can do to same himself, if man could save himself, then we wouldn't need Jesus. So to teach that man must do something to get saved is to teach that God doesn't save you, but rather man does. The Bible completely disagrees with this teaching.
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9
If you say that one must do works to earn salvation, then salvation would no longer be a gift from God. Not only that, but you'd have to deny Ephesians 2:8-9, along with many other passages.
A
sinski says:You must believe that a child molester who gets saved can still occasionally molest the odd child every now and then right?
That is what you are [clearly] implying.
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
```````````````````````````````M``````````````````````````````
Sinski i would call what you just said was a willful sin.Therefore you are not saved.
That is what you are [clearly] implying.
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
```````````````````````````````M``````````````````````````````
Sinski i would call what you just said was a willful sin.Therefore you are not saved.
Abiding: be very careful and listen, if a child abuser reconciles with his victims ( not an easy thing to do.) Then his crimes in God's eyes are closed and forgotten. It is not merely about forgiveness from the victims but reconciling and making both of them whole. So yes a child abuser/molester can make it into heaven granted it will not be easy but it is certainly possible. There are clear direct routes to achieving that. Yes in fact the victim of such crimes has their own journey to health and well being that must be made also, there is no forgiveness without reconciliation
Many times the judgement from the critics (like you for instance) would prevent that from happening, because you are so certain that it is impossible and frankly you dont want to accept it. It comforts you to be able to certainly condemn another person with full "self" righteousness.
If we cut off the process of reconciliation (by capital punishment for instance) then the victim is prevented from achieving well being too. Revenge has no place in reconciliation.
Many times the judgement from the critics (like you for instance) would prevent that from happening, because you are so certain that it is impossible and frankly you dont want to accept it. It comforts you to be able to certainly condemn another person with full "self" righteousness.
If we cut off the process of reconciliation (by capital punishment for instance) then the victim is prevented from achieving well being too. Revenge has no place in reconciliation.
Last edited:
This is the perfect example of what I am talking about. You are reading FUTURE SINS FORGIVEN into the text. Nowhere does the Bible teach such a thing.
In fact the Bible SPECIFICALLY STATES "Past Sins" yet you obviously don't believe it.
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
How does forgiveness work? Let's take a look...
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
The pardon is granted on the condition of FORSAKING THE SIN. Obviously the pre-forgiveness of future sins completely violates that concept. If sins are forgiven in advance then that means you don't have to forsake them like the scripture teaches.
What you believe is not supported by the Bible, you read it into the Bible and ignore what the Bible plainly states. I have found that most "who profess" Jesus Christ don't actually believe the Bible.
Look at this verse...
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
That passage refutes the idea of sins forgiven in advance and thus has to be ignored or twisted and explained away.
Look at this verse...
Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Repentance and conversion are absolutely mandatory for the blotting out of sins. That is why John the Baptist would preach...
Mar_1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
What is repentance? Well look at what happened in Nineveh...
Jon 3:5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.
Jon 3:6 For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.
Jon 3:7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:
Jon 3:8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.
Jon 3:9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
Jon 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Nineveh forsook their sin in repentance. Jesus spoke of Nineveh...
Mat_12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Look at this verse in the Proverbs...
Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
Future sins forgiven? No way, that is false teaching that contradicts all these verses.
It is via the blood of Jesus Christ that sins are remitted.
Mat_26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Yet the condition for this cleansing is that one must WALK in the light as He is in the light.
1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
John clearly refutes the idea that sins are forgiven in advance for sins are not cleansed if you are walking in darkness. If you are willfully sinning then you are walking in darkness.
All this is very simple and is not hard to understand. The problem is that MANY sinners simply will not receive it. They want to be saved and continue to sin. They want to "not surely die if they disobey God." Satan teaches that.
Look at how you justify the forgiveness of future sins in advance.
You use CONJECTURE and state that because Jesus died in the PAST and because all your sins WERE YET IN THE FUTURE that therefore this means that they are already forgiven.
You need to wake up and realise that God deals with you in the PRESENT. Yes Jesus offered Himself 2000 years ago thus opening the way to the mercy seat for the repentance sinner but such a thing is not automatic. You still have to WALK IN THE LIGHT AS HE IS IN THE LIGHT and that can only be done through REPENTANCE AND FAITH.
Jesus was not joking when He preached REPENT OR PERISH. Nor was He joking when He said "GO AND SIN NO MORE."
Nor was Peter lying when He said that, "1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;"
You are not saved in your sins.
Look at what James wrote...
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
One CANNOT receive the implanted word unless they FIRST lay apart ALL filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness. That is what the Bible PLAINLY STATES.
Do you reject that scripture too?
You CANNOT QUOTE a SINGLE verse which states that FUTURE SINS ARE FORGIVEN IN ADVANCE.
You are not born with a sinful nature for if that was the case then sins like homosexuality would be NATURAL. Think about it.
Also look at this verse...
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law,do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Then you have this passage...
Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Many use Eph 2:3 as a proof text to support Born Depravity yet that passage speaks not a work about birth. These same people WILL NEVER quote Rom 2:14 and which speaks of those who do good by nature.
The word Nature in the Greek is Phusis. Here is the definition...
Nature - G5449
phusis
From G5453; growth (by germination or expansion), that is, (by implication) natural production (lineal descent); by extension a genus or sort; figuratively native disposition, constitution or usage: - ([man-]) kind, nature ([-al]).
You see your nature is something that grows and develops through long practiced habit. One's nature can go either way as is clearly demonstrated by comparing Eph 2:3 to Rom 2:14.
Not biblical huh?
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
What exactly does "lay apart ALL filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness" mean then? It means what is plainly says. You have to forsake your sin and that means you stop it. If you are an adulterer you STOP your adultery, if you are a drunk your STOP getting drunk, if you are a thief you STOP stealing.
Now many sinners do not like that message because they don't want to stop.
Let's pause and look at where sin comes from...
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Sin is a result of yielding to the lusts of the flesh. TRUE Christian's have CRUCIFIED those lusts and therefore DO NOT YIELD to them and sin.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Peter wrote this...
1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
So are you going to actually believe those verses or are you going to ignore them or explain them away as meaning other than that they plainly state?
You see you cannot be a partaker of the Divine Nature unless you FIRST escape the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Temptation is common to man but there is always a way to escape, we have to choose that way.
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
You state that "We can't stop sinning on our own." Whoever said that we stop sinning on our own? True Christian's stopped sinning due to being convicted of their sin via the work of the Holy Ghost. Their conviction lead to a true godly sorrow which worked a repentance unto salvation (2Cor 7:10-11).
Nineveh stopped sinning and they did not need to get "saved" first. You cannot be "saved" and still in "bondage" at the same time. You cannot be locked up in jail and be walking around free at the same time.
Yet you are saying that YOU CAN SIN and BE SAVED at the SAME TIME. Please explain how that is not a license to sin? "Ye CAN SIN and NOT SURELY DIE" is what you are proclaiming? Can't you see that? Are you so blind to the simple truth? Take the time to think about these things.
I hear this strawman all the time. When the Bible teaches that one must repent and forsake their sin it is not teaching that by doing so one saved themselves or does not need Jesus. Repentance and the forsaking of sin are CONDITIONS laid out by God which MUST BE MET before He will save you. The Bible is very clear on this, one must repent and be converted BEFORE their sins are forgiven at the refreshing (Act 3:19). One must lay aside ALL filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness BEFORE they can receive the implanted word which can save their soul. One must be walking in the light BEFORE the blood will cleanse them of all sin.
You have the Gospel in reverse where you say you get saved and THEN you do those things. Think about it.
Is that so? Was Jesus lying then when He said...
Luk 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Strive - G75
agōnizomai
ag-o-nid'-zom-ahee
From G73; to struggle, literally (to compete for a prize), figuratively (to contend with an adversary), or generally (to endeavor to accomplish something): - fight, labor fervently, strive.
Is this another Scripture that you pretend does not exist? When Jesus tells someone that they must STRIVE is sure sounds like they have to DO something. In fact, just about every single parable of Jesus was about those WHO DID and those WHO DID NOT. Yet here you are saying that you have to DO NOTHING. You are denying the plain teachings of Jesus, can't you see that?
That is one of the most abused and twisted scriptures used today as a proof text of the false gospel message which is taught almost universally.
Paul IS NOT teaching a DO NOTHING Gospel. Paul is teaching that the WORKS OF THE LAW or that WORKS DONE APART FROM God will not save anyone. We are saved by GRACE (the leading of God) by faith (the active dynamic by which we put that grace to use) and the result of WORKING TOGETHER WITH GOD (2Cor 6:1) is PURITY OF HEART (Acts 15:9, 1Pet 1:22). That is the dynamic of salvation and you most certainly have to DO SOMETHING.
To deny that you have to do anything means you reject these words of Jesus.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
The MANY who are rejected are "workers of iniquity" which means they never forsook their iniquity in a genuine repentance. They were not doers of the word but were self deceived.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Yet you say you don't have to do anything. It is such a tragedy how so many are deceived by this do nothing Gospel. I urge you that you stop listening to all these teachers and pastors and just read the Bible plainly and believe what it says and then DO what it says.
God is the author of salvation of those who obey Him. That is because it is God that works in you to will and to do of His good please but YOU MUST work out (put into effect, work diligently) your salvation with fear and trembling. This is not a game for your soul is at stake.
Nowhere do I state that one "earns salvation." Again that is a strawman that people use. Salvation is not of ourselves, it is of God but we have a part in it because God requires us to be a doer of the word. It is by the application of grace that salvation is wrought.
The gift from God is the DYNAMIC of Salvation. We cannot save ourselves apart from God. God has given us grace but we have to put it to use by an obedient faith. The result of that dynamic is the purification of the heart which is salvation. One is redeemed from all iniquity and made pure, zealous of good works.
I wrote an article on Eph 2:8-9 specifically which deals with this very issue. Please read it.
The Pearl of Great Price: Works of Faith versus Works of the Law
In fact the Bible SPECIFICALLY STATES "Past Sins" yet you obviously don't believe it.
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
How does forgiveness work? Let's take a look...
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
The pardon is granted on the condition of FORSAKING THE SIN. Obviously the pre-forgiveness of future sins completely violates that concept. If sins are forgiven in advance then that means you don't have to forsake them like the scripture teaches.
What you believe is not supported by the Bible, you read it into the Bible and ignore what the Bible plainly states. I have found that most "who profess" Jesus Christ don't actually believe the Bible.
Look at this verse...
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
That passage refutes the idea of sins forgiven in advance and thus has to be ignored or twisted and explained away.
Look at this verse...
Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Repentance and conversion are absolutely mandatory for the blotting out of sins. That is why John the Baptist would preach...
Mar_1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
What is repentance? Well look at what happened in Nineveh...
Jon 3:5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.
Jon 3:6 For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.
Jon 3:7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:
Jon 3:8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.
Jon 3:9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
Jon 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Nineveh forsook their sin in repentance. Jesus spoke of Nineveh...
Mat_12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Look at this verse in the Proverbs...
Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
Future sins forgiven? No way, that is false teaching that contradicts all these verses.
It is via the blood of Jesus Christ that sins are remitted.
Mat_26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Yet the condition for this cleansing is that one must WALK in the light as He is in the light.
1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
John clearly refutes the idea that sins are forgiven in advance for sins are not cleansed if you are walking in darkness. If you are willfully sinning then you are walking in darkness.
All this is very simple and is not hard to understand. The problem is that MANY sinners simply will not receive it. They want to be saved and continue to sin. They want to "not surely die if they disobey God." Satan teaches that.
Look at how you justify the forgiveness of future sins in advance.
You use CONJECTURE and state that because Jesus died in the PAST and because all your sins WERE YET IN THE FUTURE that therefore this means that they are already forgiven.
You need to wake up and realise that God deals with you in the PRESENT. Yes Jesus offered Himself 2000 years ago thus opening the way to the mercy seat for the repentance sinner but such a thing is not automatic. You still have to WALK IN THE LIGHT AS HE IS IN THE LIGHT and that can only be done through REPENTANCE AND FAITH.
Jesus was not joking when He preached REPENT OR PERISH. Nor was He joking when He said "GO AND SIN NO MORE."
Nor was Peter lying when He said that, "1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;"
You are not saved in your sins.
Look at what James wrote...
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
One CANNOT receive the implanted word unless they FIRST lay apart ALL filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness. That is what the Bible PLAINLY STATES.
Do you reject that scripture too?
You CANNOT QUOTE a SINGLE verse which states that FUTURE SINS ARE FORGIVEN IN ADVANCE.
You are not born with a sinful nature for if that was the case then sins like homosexuality would be NATURAL. Think about it.
Also look at this verse...
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law,do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Then you have this passage...
Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Many use Eph 2:3 as a proof text to support Born Depravity yet that passage speaks not a work about birth. These same people WILL NEVER quote Rom 2:14 and which speaks of those who do good by nature.
The word Nature in the Greek is Phusis. Here is the definition...
Nature - G5449
phusis
From G5453; growth (by germination or expansion), that is, (by implication) natural production (lineal descent); by extension a genus or sort; figuratively native disposition, constitution or usage: - ([man-]) kind, nature ([-al]).
You see your nature is something that grows and develops through long practiced habit. One's nature can go either way as is clearly demonstrated by comparing Eph 2:3 to Rom 2:14.
Not biblical huh?
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
What exactly does "lay apart ALL filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness" mean then? It means what is plainly says. You have to forsake your sin and that means you stop it. If you are an adulterer you STOP your adultery, if you are a drunk your STOP getting drunk, if you are a thief you STOP stealing.
Now many sinners do not like that message because they don't want to stop.
Let's pause and look at where sin comes from...
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Sin is a result of yielding to the lusts of the flesh. TRUE Christian's have CRUCIFIED those lusts and therefore DO NOT YIELD to them and sin.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Peter wrote this...
1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
So are you going to actually believe those verses or are you going to ignore them or explain them away as meaning other than that they plainly state?
You see you cannot be a partaker of the Divine Nature unless you FIRST escape the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Temptation is common to man but there is always a way to escape, we have to choose that way.
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
You state that "We can't stop sinning on our own." Whoever said that we stop sinning on our own? True Christian's stopped sinning due to being convicted of their sin via the work of the Holy Ghost. Their conviction lead to a true godly sorrow which worked a repentance unto salvation (2Cor 7:10-11).
Nineveh stopped sinning and they did not need to get "saved" first. You cannot be "saved" and still in "bondage" at the same time. You cannot be locked up in jail and be walking around free at the same time.
Yet you are saying that YOU CAN SIN and BE SAVED at the SAME TIME. Please explain how that is not a license to sin? "Ye CAN SIN and NOT SURELY DIE" is what you are proclaiming? Can't you see that? Are you so blind to the simple truth? Take the time to think about these things.
I hear this strawman all the time. When the Bible teaches that one must repent and forsake their sin it is not teaching that by doing so one saved themselves or does not need Jesus. Repentance and the forsaking of sin are CONDITIONS laid out by God which MUST BE MET before He will save you. The Bible is very clear on this, one must repent and be converted BEFORE their sins are forgiven at the refreshing (Act 3:19). One must lay aside ALL filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness BEFORE they can receive the implanted word which can save their soul. One must be walking in the light BEFORE the blood will cleanse them of all sin.
You have the Gospel in reverse where you say you get saved and THEN you do those things. Think about it.
Is that so? Was Jesus lying then when He said...
Luk 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Strive - G75
agōnizomai
ag-o-nid'-zom-ahee
From G73; to struggle, literally (to compete for a prize), figuratively (to contend with an adversary), or generally (to endeavor to accomplish something): - fight, labor fervently, strive.
Is this another Scripture that you pretend does not exist? When Jesus tells someone that they must STRIVE is sure sounds like they have to DO something. In fact, just about every single parable of Jesus was about those WHO DID and those WHO DID NOT. Yet here you are saying that you have to DO NOTHING. You are denying the plain teachings of Jesus, can't you see that?
That is one of the most abused and twisted scriptures used today as a proof text of the false gospel message which is taught almost universally.
Paul IS NOT teaching a DO NOTHING Gospel. Paul is teaching that the WORKS OF THE LAW or that WORKS DONE APART FROM God will not save anyone. We are saved by GRACE (the leading of God) by faith (the active dynamic by which we put that grace to use) and the result of WORKING TOGETHER WITH GOD (2Cor 6:1) is PURITY OF HEART (Acts 15:9, 1Pet 1:22). That is the dynamic of salvation and you most certainly have to DO SOMETHING.
To deny that you have to do anything means you reject these words of Jesus.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
The MANY who are rejected are "workers of iniquity" which means they never forsook their iniquity in a genuine repentance. They were not doers of the word but were self deceived.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Yet you say you don't have to do anything. It is such a tragedy how so many are deceived by this do nothing Gospel. I urge you that you stop listening to all these teachers and pastors and just read the Bible plainly and believe what it says and then DO what it says.
God is the author of salvation of those who obey Him. That is because it is God that works in you to will and to do of His good please but YOU MUST work out (put into effect, work diligently) your salvation with fear and trembling. This is not a game for your soul is at stake.
Nowhere do I state that one "earns salvation." Again that is a strawman that people use. Salvation is not of ourselves, it is of God but we have a part in it because God requires us to be a doer of the word. It is by the application of grace that salvation is wrought.
The gift from God is the DYNAMIC of Salvation. We cannot save ourselves apart from God. God has given us grace but we have to put it to use by an obedient faith. The result of that dynamic is the purification of the heart which is salvation. One is redeemed from all iniquity and made pure, zealous of good works.
I wrote an article on Eph 2:8-9 specifically which deals with this very issue. Please read it.
The Pearl of Great Price: Works of Faith versus Works of the Law
Last edited:
It appears you would rather dodge my question rather than answer it.
Answer these questions please...
Does a child molester have to stop molesting children BEFORE he can be saved and forgiven?
Can one commit the occasional act of child molestation after salvation and REMAIN justified?
That one question exposes the fallacy at work here. You Gospel is a "saved IN rebellion" message.
Converts who come into "so called" salvation under this lie remain workers of iniquity, double minded, attempting to serve two masters, their old man IS NOT crucified with the passions and desires.
It is the error of the wicked and it is deceiving millions.