False religions

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DP

Banned
#21
Sep 27, 2015
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#21
crossnote said:
You seem to have your set of doctrines, even if it can be summed up with "receive the Holy Spirit and follow Him, never mind doctrine". :rolleyes:
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What better way for the false prophets of today to have their way with God's people? Many of them have already got brethren to think all the OT Books are dead history with no need to study them. Why not the rest of God's Holy Writ too?

Those ways of thinking are a sign for us of Christ's faithful who will stand to the end. We will keep studying all... of God's Holy Writ in understanding by The Holy Spirit, and let others think it's The Holy Spirit that is guiding them when it's actually "another spirit" influencing them (2 Cor.11; Gal.1:7-8).
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#22
Apr 7, 2014
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#22
I like this quote from Dr Walter Martin - "Cults (which are false religions) use Christian terminology, but redefine terms to suit their own belief and practices."
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#23
Jun 30, 2015
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#23
DP said:
Can Truth ever really be about religion?

Religion is man's idea of appearing and acting holy. Authentic Christianity is not... a religion. It's is the Truth. This is why all other faith systems are... religions, which is of men, and not God and His Son.
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While I don't disagree with what you say here, you are using "religion" in a specific way which is particular to Western Protestant Christian culture ("Christianese"). Where one is contrasting Christianity and "religion", you are correct. However, one must keep this clear, or commit the fallacy of equivocation (using a term in one place to mean one thing, and in another to mean something else, without explanation of such). In the KJV, NIV and NASB, James uses 'religion' in the sense of 'outward expression of one's belief', without any such implication of falsity:

James 1:26-27 "If anyone considers himself religious, and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue he deceives himself and his religion is worthless. Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep themselves from being polluted by the world." (NIV)
 
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DP

Banned
#24
Sep 27, 2015
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#24
Dino246 said:
While I don't disagree with what you say here, you are using "religion" in a specific way which is particular to Western Protestant Christian culture ("Christianese"). Where one is contrasting Christianity and "religion", you are correct. However, one must keep this clear, or commit the fallacy of equivocation (using a term in one place to mean one thing, and in another to mean something else, without explanation of such). In the KJV, NIV and NASB, James uses 'religion' in the sense of 'outward expression of one's belief', without any such implication of falsity:

James 1:26-27 "If anyone considers himself religious, and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue he deceives himself and his religion is worthless. Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep themselves from being polluted by the world." (NIV)
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James used the idea properly, as he was speaking of behavior, observance, which is actually what religion is about. God's Truth is different, in the sense that it's God's Truth that promotes certain religious observance.

Thus God's Truth, is not really a religion, for that would be like going back to the ways of the old covenant.
 
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DP

Banned
#25
Sep 27, 2015
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#25
I might add also, one of the best proofs that God's Truth is not a religion, is because even from before the foundation of the world, He ordained His Salvation to only be for those who confess Jesus Christ as The Savior, by Faith, and not by religious behavior.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#26
Jun 30, 2015
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#26
DP said:
James used the idea properly, as he was speaking of behavior, observance, which is actually what religion is about. God's Truth is different, in the sense that it's God's Truth that promotes certain religious observance.

Thus God's Truth, is not really a religion, for that would be like going back to the ways of the old covenant.
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I agree with the first sentence, but I'm not sure about the second. Could you expand on this a bit?
 
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DP

Banned
#27
Sep 27, 2015
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#27
Dino246 said:
I agree with the first sentence, but I'm not sure about the second. Could you expand on this a bit?
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Someone, don't know if it was this thread, posted about Jesus being The Word, which per John 1 is very true. But how far back in time does that apply? Eternally. Even before the written Word? Yes. Even before man ever had a concept or word like 'religion'? Yes!

So when some sing that song, "Gimme that ol' time religion", I instead sing, "Gimme God's Truth!"

It's the love of God's Truth that I'm into, not the love of religion (i.e., religious observance to be seen as religious).
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#28
Jun 30, 2015
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#28
DP said:
I might add also, one of the best proofs that God's Truth is not a religion, is because even from before the foundation of the world, He ordained His Salvation to only be for those who confess Jesus Christ as The Savior, by Faith, and not by religious behavior.
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Here is a clear equivocation. The point of James' letter is to say that there is outward behaviour which is consistent with and gives evidence of the inward faith in Christ. The term James uses for that behaviour is "religion" (not "a religion").

DP said:
...It's the love of God's Truth that I'm into, not the love of religion (i.e., religious observance to be seen as religious).
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Here you've just defined religion a third way, which again is not what James is talking about. Jesus addressed that sort in the Sermon on the Mount, only without using the term "religion".
 
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DP

Banned
#29
Sep 27, 2015
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#29
Dino246 said:
Here is a clear equivocation. The point of James' letter is to say that there is outward behaviour which is consistent with and gives evidence of the inward faith in Christ. The term James uses for that behaviour is "religion" (not "a religion").

Here you've just defined religion a third way, which again is not what James is talking about. Jesus addressed that sort in the Sermon on the Mount, only without using the term "religion".
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What I've been talking about from the start is man playing... religion, something which Christianity is not, because Christianity is about God's Truth. Surely you can grasp the difference, because it's our Faith on Christ Jesus is not a religious observance, like long prayers, being holy, etc., something the Pharisees thought was Truth.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#30
Jun 30, 2015
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#30
DP said:
What I've been talking about from the start is man playing... religion, something which Christianity is not, because Christianity is about God's Truth. Surely you can grasp the difference, because it's our Faith on Christ Jesus is not a religious observance, like long prayers, being holy, etc., something the Pharisees thought was Truth.
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I do grasp the difference, very clearly. What I am questioning is that you seem to suggest that James' "pure and faultless religion" is actually a religion contrary to Christian faith. I don't accept that. :)
 
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DP

Banned
#31
Sep 27, 2015
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#31
Dino246 said:
I do grasp the difference, very clearly. What I am questioning is that you seem to suggest that James' "pure and faultless religion" is actually a religion contrary to Christian faith. I don't accept that. :)
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I'll say it again:

What I've been talking about from the start is man playing... religion, something which Christianity is not, because Christianity is about God's Truth.
 
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Siberian_Khatru

Guest
#32
#32
DP said:
What I've been talking about from the start is man playing... religion, something which Christianity is not, because Christianity is about God's Truth.
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I may never wholly understand this separation of Christianity from the word religion. :(
 
D

DP

Banned
#33
Sep 27, 2015
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#33
Siberian_Khatru said:
I may never wholly understand this separation of Christianity from the word religion. :(
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It should be easy to grasp. God created the heavens and the earth. So does that involve religion, or Truth? It involves Truth of course, and is not something man should make a religion out of, even though some have by worshiping the creation instead of The Creator...

Rom 1:21-25
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified Him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.


22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,


23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.


24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:


25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, Who is blessed for ever. Amen.
KJV
 
4enlightment

4enlightment

Banned
#34
May 15, 2013
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#34
Kaycie said:
What if their intention is pure, and instead of wanting to control people, they are just trying to save people from going to hell for all eternity? Are false religions real? Does it matter what church you go to as long as you believe in God? What if it did matter, and you would not inherit salvation if you were in one? What if God said, "They worship Me in vain- their doctrine is merely human rules."? And what if Jesus said, "Not everyone who says to Me Lord, Lord! will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY those who do the will of My Father."? Wouldn't you see the danger? And wouldn't you want to make sure that you and those you care about are not following one of these false doctrines in order to save souls from eternal torment? ...


... I would.
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When Jesus had made that statement, He was referring to them about how the way they were worshiping Him, that they has made it of rules of instructions to follow. Let's says, if a man worshiped his wife; that he does it in a certain pattern that he follows everytime when he worshiped his wife. But by doing this repetitiously shows that he is honoring his wife with his lips but his heart is far from her. But when Jesus has came to Jerusalem on a donkey, that the children has worshiped Him in truth, because they were praising Him spontaneously from the heart, because they truly believed that He is whom He says He is and were truly glad to see Him.

And that part about not everyone that says Lord, Lord, will not entered, accept for the one that does the will of my Father, which will means desires, and so it is saying that the only ones that are entering are those that does what the father like, and that is to acknowledge whom He is and to be compassionate to everyone, even if they has done something wrong toward them, like we has done wrong to Him. And so the son is the exact image of Him. And if anyone spit on someone and declared that someone as being worthless is in danger of hell fire, because they has exalted themselves over that person and which Moses is a very humbled man, that he still kept on serving them as if he was their servant, eventhough they did not shown any respect for him.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#35
Nov 12, 2015
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#35
crossnote said:
You seem to have your set of doctrines, even if it can be summed up with "receive the Holy Spirit and follow Him, never mind doctrine". :rolleyes:
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We are to put the weight where the weight should go. God detests unequal weights. I never said never mind doctrines, though you may have taken something I said to mean that. But one can have many doctrines but without having received the Holy Spirit, that man is none of Christs.


Then again, a man may be being led by the Spirit and still yet have some wrong conceptions about God that the Spirit will deal with.


This is why we can see Gods amazing wisdom in telling us we can tell them by their fruits rather than telling us that we will know them by whether their understanding is perfect.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#36
Nov 12, 2015
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#36
4enlightment said:
When Jesus had made that statement, He was referring to them about how the way they were worshiping Him, that they has made it of rules of instructions to follow. Let's says, if a man worshiped his wife; that he does it in a certain pattern that he follows everytime when he worshiped his wife. But by doing this repetitiously shows that he is honoring his wife with his lips but his heart is far from her. But when Jesus has came to Jerusalem on a donkey, that the children has worshiped Him in truth, because they were praising Him spontaneously from the heart, because they truly believed that He is whom He says He is and were truly glad to see Him.

And that part about not everyone that says Lord, Lord, will not entered, accept for the one that does the will of my Father, which will means desires, and so it is saying that the only ones that are entering are those that does what the father like, and that is to acknowledge whom He is and to be compassionate to everyone, even if they has done something wrong toward them, like we has done wrong to Him. And so the son is the exact image of Him. And if anyone spit on someone and declared that someone as being worthless is in danger of hell fire, because they has exalted themselves over that person and which Moses is a very humbled man, that he still kept on serving them as if he was their servant, eventhough they did not shown any respect for him.
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It is very nice to meet you! You speak with such simplicity that it is very refreshing to me. :)
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#37
Apr 7, 2014
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#37
Christianity is about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and not legalistic, religious bondage to a false religion.

 
C

Chuckt

Guest
#38
#38
tjogs said:
Years later to this I was thinking back my experiences and thinking the question about different christian religions. Each to them think they are right one, why else people would stay there (unless by social pressure) but the hostility to others kept bugging me alot.
At this point God spoke to me. What he said exactly is something I cannot translate to english word by word but meaning was something like this: "Your ignorance to religions and state of man heart is so great that it's not your to worry about these things. What is meant to be between man and God is between man and God. For you my son love them like fellow christian and follow my word".

Have you encountered something similar you wanna share or what do you think about this im right and your is false thing in general and how you have dealt with that?
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I don't think we're saved by believing in hell but there is a hell and not believing in it means that we don't believe God which is the opposite of faith here.

I have a relative who is reading books on dispelling hell but the books being read are not the Bible. My relative is studying to be a hireling because you don't read books to learn how to lie to people to get them to come to church.

I read articles and several books and after about 300 hours, I was able to disprove annihilationism. There is a hell. On top of that, I bought some more books to stack the evidence in my favor.

The issue here is if you want to believe God. I believe God and being friends with those who differ would be offensive to God so therefore friendship with the world is enmity towards God.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Enmity means hatred so if I agree with you, God says I hate him.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Being subject to God means that I have to disagree and that means that we can never get along on the issue.

So how are you supposed to love them like a fellow Christian and follow His word?

Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
Luke 12:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
Luke 12:53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

God didn't come to solve the problem but His coming came and abbreviated the sin problem. No one is going to make me agree with them other than they solve their doctrinal problems because I choose to agree with the truth and those who don't want to work out their doctrine with me will have it worked out by the God-man who is Truth in the end because we will all give account to God:

Romans 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

You can all be asked to give an account why you would rather fight about non-truth on annihilationism than reason for truth. You can be asked by a great number of things to account for. The end result is that you choose whether you want to believe His word or not believe His word or whether you actually reasoned for truth by those who know. The end result is that if people will love evil then they will love evil and no amount of apologetics will change that because if a person loves evil they are saying "no" to truth.
 
C

Chuckt

Guest
#39
#39
mailmandan said:
I like this quote from Dr Walter Martin - "Cults (which are false religions) use Christian terminology, but redefine terms to suit their own belief and practices."
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How does a cult become a cult? Because we allow it. We love people instead of tell them the truth. They become a cult because we don't fight for the truth because we're seen as divisive. How did Jim Jones become a cult? I heard he was evangelical. Because people loved Jim Jones more than the word of God so they followed after Jim Jones instead of God's word. This should show the error of loving and not judging.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#40
Apr 7, 2014
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#40
Chuckt said:
How does a cult become a cult? Because we allow it. We love people instead of tell them the truth. They become a cult because we don't fight for the truth because we're seen as divisive. How did Jim Jones become a cult? I heard he was evangelical. Because people loved Jim Jones more than the word of God so they followed after Jim Jones instead of God's word. This should show the error of loving and not judging.
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Love without truth is too soft and truth without love is too hard. We need to speak the truth in love.
 
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