Fasting.

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NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#21
Why a fast? A tool of the gospel? The kind of fast that cast out demons along with prayer?

Fasting literally depriving oneself of food or water. like other ceremonial laws as carnal ordinances are used as a shadow of the true applying the prescription in 2 Corinthians 4:18. it can help us find the unseen meaning to the true .

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal. 2 Corinthians 4:18

First shown being developed as part of the Sabbath ceremonial law, that also has it spiritual understanding hid in parables. Using "manna" coming down from heaven to represent the hidden meaning of fasting. Called hidden manna in Revelation.

Exodus 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the Lord hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the Lord: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
What you are speaking of is also called "Trans-Substantiation" (spelt something like that ;)) by the Catholics.

Something to which Jesus taught. But, traditions of men, made it impossible for Jews, but especially gentiles, in the seeing of what Jesus was actually meaning, or referring to.

Sad, it is that this is still going on in these "last days!" :censored:

(oops!..perhaps I speaketh too much? :unsure:)
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,274
1,460
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#22
What you are speaking of is also called "Trans-Substantiation" (spelt something like that ;)) by the Catholics.

Something to which Jesus taught. But, traditions of men, made it impossible for Jews, but especially gentiles, in the seeing of what Jesus was actually meaning, or referring to.

Sad, it is that this is still going on in these "last days!" :censored:

(oops!..perhaps I speaketh too much? :unsure:)
Hello NayborBear,

In your post above, are you saying that Jesus taught transubstantion?

On the night that Jesus was betrayed, he took "bread" and broke it and said, "this is my (represents) my body which is broken for you. As often as you eat of this, do this in remembrance of Me. Likewise, He took the cup (fruit of the vine) and said drink all of you, for this is (represents) my blood which is shed for the sins of many."

When Jesus said, "unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you." He wasn't talking about eating his literal flesh and drinking his literal blood, but it was figurative of the believer consuming Jesus into their lives. Similarly, the word of God is figuratively spoken of as spiritual food.

As far as I know, the scripture which says "you are not to eat blood, because the live resides in the blood" is still valid. Why would Jesus then say that "unless we eat His flesh and drink His blood we have no life?"

In short, Jesus was speaking figuratively of these things.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#23
Hello NayborBear,

In your post above, are you saying that Jesus taught transubstantion?

On the night that Jesus was betrayed, he took "bread" and broke it and said, "this is my (represents) my body which is broken for you. As often as you eat of this, do this in remembrance of Me. Likewise, He took the cup (fruit of the vine) and said drink all of you, for this is (represents) my blood which is shed for the sins of many."

When Jesus said, "unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you." He wasn't talking about eating his literal flesh and drinking his literal blood, but it was figurative of the believer consuming Jesus into their lives. Similarly, the word of God is figuratively spoken of as spiritual food.

As far as I know, the scripture which says "you are not to eat blood, because the live resides in the blood" is still valid. Why would Jesus then say that "unless we eat His flesh and drink His blood we have no life?"

In short, Jesus was speaking figuratively of these things.

In the physical,material,empirical realm? You are correct!

In the spiritual, or unseen realm? Which is what Jesus was referring to, when He spoke in parables. Using physical, or material analogies, in describing that which one is suppose to do in the unseen.

This can only be done, in the Spirit! To which, every believer I've ever known, says that this cannot be done while your still here on earth sucking air in your flesh body.

Tell ya what? Next time your brain starts tellin' ya "it's time to eat?" Ask it "Where?" ;)
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
14,221
1,343
113
#24
Hello NayborBear,

In your post above, are you saying that Jesus taught transubstantion?

On the night that Jesus was betrayed, he took "bread" and broke it and said, "this is my (represents) my body which is broken for you. As often as you eat of this, do this in remembrance of Me. Likewise, He took the cup (fruit of the vine) and said drink all of you, for this is (represents) my blood which is shed for the sins of many."

When Jesus said, "unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you." He wasn't talking about eating his literal flesh and drinking his literal blood, but it was figurative of the believer consuming Jesus into their lives. Similarly, the word of God is figuratively spoken of as spiritual food.

As far as I know, the scripture which says "you are not to eat blood, because the live resides in the blood" is still valid. Why would Jesus then say that "unless we eat His flesh and drink His blood we have no life?"

In short, Jesus was speaking figuratively of these things.
Yes literal blood that is used to show spirit life was given in respect to unseen spirit life poured out . Spirit life is in the blood. Blood without the spirit has no value .Christ said his flesh and blood that could never enter heaven profit for nothing literally.

His word is spirit and is life.

Water or blood is used figurately. Water represents the blood of the men that went in jeopardy of their spirit lives.The changing of the water to blood

And David longed, and said, Oh that one would give me drink of the water of the well of Bethlehem, which is by the gate!And the three mighty men brake through the host of the Philistines, and drew water out of the well of Bethlehem, that was by the gate, and took it, and brought it to David: nevertheless he would not drink thereof, but poured it out unto the Lord. And he said, Be it far from me, O Lord, that I should do this: is not this the blood of the men that went in jeopardy of their lives? therefore he would not drink it. These things did these three mighty men.2 Samuel 23: 15-17

Its the same things a the hidden manna . Where twice is much is to be cooked for the following day of fast the Sabbath .A day set aside that the gospel could go out into the world to perform the true fast .The kind of Christ said can cast out demons as lying spirits.

The key prayer and fasting (bringing the gospel)

Mark 9:28-30 King James Version (KJV) And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out? And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting. And they departed thence, and passed through Galilee; and he would not that any man should know it.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,274
1,460
113
#25
In the physical,material,empirical realm? You are correct!

In the spiritual, or unseen realm? Which is what Jesus was referring to, when He spoke in parables. Using physical, or material analogies, in describing that which one is suppose to do in the unseen.

This can only be done, in the Spirit! To which, every believer I've ever known, says that this cannot be done while your still here on earth sucking air in your flesh body.

Tell ya what? Next time your brain starts tellin' ya "it's time to eat?" Ask it "Where?" ;)
What you are saying makes no sense. Here is the question:

do believe that Jesus said to literally eat His flesh and drink His blood, yes, or no?

I already told you that what Jesus was saying was figurative. If He meant for us to literally eat His flesh and drink His blood, then at the last supper He wouldn't have broken bread, but would have sliced off a piece of flesh and given it to the disciples. Likewise, He would cut himself and filled a container with His blood for them to drink instead of the fruit of the vine (wine). So no double-talk! It is a very simple question.

I have never literally eaten the Lord's flesh, nor literally drank His blood and He doesn't want me to. What He does want me and every believer to do, is break a literal piece of bread and eat it in remembrance of His body that was broken for us. Then He wants us to take a cup of wine or juice and drink that in remembrance of His blood that was shed for us. That is what it means to eat His flesh and drink His blood. It's figurative!

Also, there no such thing as transubstantiation, which is where the priest calls Jesus down from heaven so that He enters the Eucharist with its outer appearance remaining the same, but its inner substance turning into the literal flesh and blood of Christ.

By the way, when my "brain starts tellin' ya "it's time to eat?" Ask it "Where?" I get something out of the fridge or go out to eat. What does that have to do with this issue?
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
14,221
1,343
113
#26
What you are saying makes no sense. Here is the question:

do believe that Jesus said to literally eat His flesh and drink His blood, yes, or no?

I already told you that what Jesus was saying was figurative. If He meant for us to literally eat His flesh and drink His blood, then at the last supper He wouldn't have broken bread, but would have sliced off a piece of flesh and given it to the disciples. Likewise, He would cut himself and filled a container with His blood for them to drink instead of the fruit of the vine (wine). So no double-talk! It is a very simple question.

I have never literally eaten the Lord's flesh, nor literally drank His blood and He doesn't want me to. What He does want me and every believer to do, is break a literal piece of bread and eat it in remembrance of His body that was broken for us. Then He wants us to take a cup of wine or juice and drink that in remembrance of His blood that was shed for us. That is what it means to eat His flesh and drink His blood. It's figurative!

Also, there no such thing as transubstantiation, which is where the priest calls Jesus down from heaven so that He enters the Eucharist with its outer appearance remaining the same, but its inner substance turning into the literal flesh and blood of Christ.

By the way, when my "brain starts tellin' ya "it's time to eat?" Ask it "Where?" I get something out of the fridge or go out to eat. What does that have to do with this issue?
You might want to look again at the parable I offed in respect to driniking blood as a metaphor give ones spirit life in jeopardy of ones own.

I was not supporting transubstantiation a abomination. As you mentioned ... we eat it in remembrance of His body that was broken for us

I was saying we are not to eat his literal flesh or drink blood. The kind of food we eat that the disciples knew not of was do the will of God. ..

The parable I offered explains what it means to drink the blood of men .as giving the spiritual life (not dying) in jeopardy of their own spirit. A body without a spirit can do no work.

Because the JW's take it literally they refuse blood transfusions. Just the opposite of Catholics who say we are mysteriously literally drinking blood. as if the life of the Spirit was literal blood and not the Spirit alone.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
13,649
7,399
113
#27
Why a fast? A tool of the gospel? The kind of fast that cast out demons along with prayer?

Fasting literally depriving oneself of food or water. like other ceremonial laws as carnal ordinances are used as a shadow of the true applying the prescription in 2 Corinthians 4:18. it can help us find the unseen meaning to the true .

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal. 2 Corinthians 4:18

First shown being developed as part of the Sabbath ceremonial law, that also has it spiritual understanding hid in parables. Using "manna" coming down from heaven to represent the hidden meaning of fasting. Called hidden manna in Revelation.

Exodus 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the Lord hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the Lord: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
Wow... you're deeply confused about this. Fasting: voluntarily going with literal food for a period of time longer than one normally does. No ceremonial law, no shadow, no parable, no metaphor, no hidden message. Just choosing to focus on the Lord instead of the needs of the physical body.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
14,221
1,343
113
#28
Wow... you're deeply confused about this. Fasting: voluntarily going with literal food for a period of time longer than one normally does. No ceremonial law, no shadow, no parable, no metaphor, no hidden message. Just choosing to focus on the Lord instead of the needs of the physical body.
Hi thanks for the reply .There does seem to be some confusion or misunderstanding?

God uses the physical things seen needed for these temporal bodies to help us understand the goal our new incorruptible (unseen bodies.)

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.2 Corithians 4:18

Physical needs are used to reveal the spiritual needs "the gospel". Like for instance taken from Isiah 58. The whole chapter that defines a true fast that can along with prayer cast out lying spirits as demons.. makes a great study. As a parable filled with many metaphors to represent the gospel

The kind of physical need revealed as spiritual to our new spirit.... to loose the bands of wickedness as lies, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the spiritually oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke by the power of the gospel to deal the daily bread as the will of God to the hungry, both literally and spiritually , when you see the naked, that you cover him; clothing them with the gospel the righteousness of Christ. and that you do not hide from your own flesh or family of God.


Who is focusing on the ceremonial law which required regulated food cooked the day before? If you are not focusing in on the unseen spiritual law as the real fast but rather as the shadow of a fast by which the disciples could not cast out lying spirits. Then you are looking at it as voluntarily going without literal food for a period of time longer than one normally does having nothing to do the word of God. More of a heath issue and not the true fast (the gospel) that does cast out lying spirits called demons..
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
13,649
7,399
113
#29
Hi thanks for the reply .There does seem to be some confusion or misunderstanding?

God uses the physical things seen needed for these temporal bodies to help us understand the goal our new incorruptible (unseen bodies.)

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.2 Corithians 4:18

Physical needs are used to reveal the spiritual needs "the gospel". Like for instance taken from Isiah 58. The whole chapter that defines a true fast that can along with prayer cast out lying spirits as demons.. makes a great study. As a parable filled with many metaphors to represent the gospel

The kind of physical need revealed as spiritual to our new spirit.... to loose the bands of wickedness as lies, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the spiritually oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke by the power of the gospel to deal the daily bread as the will of God to the hungry, both literally and spiritually , when you see the naked, that you cover him; clothing them with the gospel the righteousness of Christ. and that you do not hide from your own flesh or family of God.

Who is focusing on the ceremonial law which required regulated food cooked the day before? If you are not focusing in on the unseen spiritual law as the real fast but rather as the shadow of a fast by which the disciples could not cast out lying spirits. Then you are looking at it as voluntarily going without literal food for a period of time longer than one normally does having nothing to do the word of God. More of a heath issue and not the true fast (the gospel) that does cast out lying spirits called demons..
Do you attend a church? Do you talk to anyone (in real life) about your view of Scripture? Do you ever discuss it with a pastor or someone trained in theology?
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
14,221
1,343
113
#30
Do you attend a church? Do you talk to anyone (in real life) about your view of Scripture? Do you ever discuss it with a pastor or someone trained in theology?
Yes I do I have and continue. I do not seek the approval of men . We can agree in many things but ultimately our agreement as two walking together is with us and Christ in us.

Do you think the sign of tongues confirms a person believes in God not seen or is it a sign against a person of any nation that believes not prophecy and therefore does not believe in a God not seen.?
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#31
What you are saying makes no sense. Here is the question:

do believe that Jesus said to literally eat His flesh and drink His blood, yes, or no?

I already told you that what Jesus was saying was figurative. If He meant for us to literally eat His flesh and drink His blood, then at the last supper He wouldn't have broken bread, but would have sliced off a piece of flesh and given it to the disciples. Likewise, He would cut himself and filled a container with His blood for them to drink instead of the fruit of the vine (wine). So no double-talk! It is a very simple question.

I have never literally eaten the Lord's flesh, nor literally drank His blood and He doesn't want me to. What He does want me and every believer to do, is break a literal piece of bread and eat it in remembrance of His body that was broken for us. Then He wants us to take a cup of wine or juice and drink that in remembrance of His blood that was shed for us. That is what it means to eat His flesh and drink His blood. It's figurative!

Also, there no such thing as transubstantiation, which is where the priest calls Jesus down from heaven so that He enters the Eucharist with its outer appearance remaining the same, but its inner substance turning into the literal flesh and blood of Christ.

By the way, when my "brain starts tellin' ya "it's time to eat?" Ask it "Where?" I get something out of the fridge or go out to eat. What does that have to do with this issue?
In answering your yes/no question? "do believe that Jesus said to literally eat His flesh and drink His blood, yes, or no?" Flesh "literally?" DEFINITELY NO! That would be cannibalism! Spiritually "literally?" DEFINITELY YES!


I read your reply and am instantly transported to John 3:3-7 (bible gateway for quoting).
John 3:
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Regarding you to being a "wise" man, such as Nicodemus? He couldn't understand Jesus' words either!

Have you read that which you posted to me? Can you "see" what it is you are saying concerning yourself?

Paul goes into a bit more detail of these same words Christ spoke to Nicodemus. Chewing it up, a bit for the sake of the gentile "Church in Corinth."

1 Corinthians 2
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Can you "see" how Paul bounces from "the spirit which is of God", which is the Holy Spirit, "that we might know the things that are freely given to us OF God?" Making the "distinction", from the "Spirit of God, which searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God."

Can you "see" that Paul is not talking about Jesus here. Although, he and Jesus are TEACHING about the very SAME thing!

One cannot be willing to follow the advice of Job's wife:
Job 2
9 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.

Yet, time after time? When conversing with people? This, is what I hear! Although, many times you'll get that "Political Tap Dance."
Isaiah 28
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through (Speaking of the "GREAT AND TERRIBLE DAY OF THE LORD!), it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,147
3,768
113
#32
We live, survive, on the Bread from Heaven born in the House of Bread. In this sense when we partake of unleavened Bread it is the flesh of Yeshua. His Word.

Blood is the life. Also in Yeshua, we have Life , and that in abundance. We drink the wine which is His Blood, His Life for us forevermore.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#33
Do you attend a church? Do you talk to anyone (in real life) about your view of Scripture? Do you ever discuss it with a pastor or someone trained in theology?
1 Corinthians 2
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

1 Corinthians 10
29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience? (the hidden meaning, goes further then the eating of flesh food sacrificed to idols. but? This also is spiritually discerned)
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
14,221
1,343
113
#34
In answering your yes/no question? "do believe that Jesus said to literally eat His flesh and drink His blood, yes, or no?" Flesh "literally?" DEFINITELY NO! That would be cannibalism! Spiritually "literally?" DEFINITELY YES!

I agree. the spiritless lifeless blood must be poured out so that it can return back to the dust of the field in which it was formed of.

The flesh profits for nothing, zip, nada.... we walk or understand God not seen by the unseen faith of God that works in us with us.


I read your reply and am instantly transported to John 3:3-7 (bible gateway for quoting).
John 3:
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Regarding you to being a "wise" man, such as Nicodemus? He couldn't understand Jesus' words either!

Have you read that which you posted to me? Can you "see" what it is you are saying concerning yourself?
Evidently different then I see myself.

I have no problem understanding Jesus's word that we must be born again of the Spirit. Him giving us a new spirit that will never die .

Paul goes into a bit more detail of these same words Christ spoke to Nicodemus. Chewing it up, a bit for the sake of the gentile "Church in Corinth."

1 Corinthians 2
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Can you "see" how Paul bounces from "the spirit which is of God", which is the Holy Spirit, "that we might know the things that are freely given to us OF God?" Making the "distinction", from the "Spirit of God, which searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God."

Can you "see" that Paul is not talking about Jesus here. Although, he and Jesus are TEACHING about the very SAME thing!


Paul is talking as Jesus gives him the words to hear God coming from God . No distinction from hearing God by faith, to hearing God by the same work of faith. The distinction is men hear God and believe Him not seen.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,274
1,460
113
#35
In answering your yes/no question? "do believe that Jesus said to literally eat His flesh and drink His blood, yes, or no?" Flesh "literally?" DEFINITELY NO! That would be cannibalism! Spiritually "literally?" DEFINITELY YES!

Ok, that's all that I wanted to know. Because in your original post you made it sound like you were supporting the idea of the eating of the Lord's literal flesh and drinking His blood, which is why I contacted you in the first place.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
13,649
7,399
113
#36
Yes I do I have and continue. I do not seek the approval of men . We can agree in many things but ultimately our agreement as two walking together is with us and Christ in us.
It's one thing to seek approval from men, and another thing to check your interpretations of Scripture with others to make sure you aren't off in far left field.

Do you think the sign of tongues confirms a person believes in God not seen or is it a sign against a person of any nation that believes not prophecy and therefore does not believe in a God not seen.?
This thread is not about tongues, but about fasting.