First Resurrection Part 2

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cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
Sep 25, 2011
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#1
Did you know that the phrase 1000 Year Reign of Christ does not appear anywhere in scripture? Nor the word millenium?

Does this surprise you? Notice in the above title, we did not spell out the word "thousand," but used 1000 instead. This is because numbers are fictions in numerical form and have no substance. And the 1000 year reign of Christ is also a fiction according to Scripture, which has has no substance. It is born and bred from the doctrines of man, not from the Holy Scripture.


The thousand year reign appears nowhere in the sixty-six books, 1,189 chapters, 31,173 verses of the Bible except in this one passage where it occurs six times in six consecutive verses Revelation 20:3-8 (KJV).


Revelation 20:3-8 (KJV) is the only passage in the entire scriptures that the so-called premillinialists have as the basis for the 1000 year reign. What endless variations of concocted fables have resulted! Clearly it does not contain the detail that they attribute to it.


First, it should be pointed out that scripture does not speak of the thousand year reign of Christ. Revelation 20:4 (KJV) says, "...and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,...and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." It's not Christ that reigns 1000 years, but those who were killed for God's sake that reign with Christ 1000 years.


To illustrate, consider the phrase, "John Doe reigned with the king for one year." Does this mean the king reigned for only one year? No, it does not. The king could reign for many years, but the point is not how long the king reigned but how long John reigned with the king. The king isn't the subject, it is speaking about how long John reigns with him. Likewise, Revelation 20:4 (KJV) is not about how long Jesus will reign, but how long others will reign with Jesus. There's a big difference.


There are some things not mentioned in Revelation 20
.


  • First, it does not mention the second coming of Christ.
  • Second, it does not mention a reign on earth.
  • Third, this passage does not mention a bodily resurrection.
  • Fourth, it does not mention Christ on earth.
  • And fifth, it does not mention us, it says "they" lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The passage also mentions the first resurrection, which is in contrast with the second death. The point is not that the righteous is raised a thousand years before the wicked.



This passage says nothing about Jesus coming to this earth and establishing a worldly kingdom at Jerusalem -- those that so teach are duty-bound to prove their doctrines with scripture, not just their imaginations.


And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years Revelation 20:4 (KJV)


This is where the phrase 1000 year reign came from. Its proper use would be limited to exactly what John was describing at this point. The so-called premillinialists believe that they will be worldly conquerors with Christ when He comes to reign on this earth for 1000 years; but Paul says that we are more than conquerors through him that loved us now! Romans 8:37 (KJV)


There is no reason to differentiate between these reigns. There is no reason to believe that there is anything sweeter on this earth than reigning in His kingdom, now. Ephesians 2:6 (KJV)


At Revelation 20:6 (KJV), the first resurrection clearly applies to those dead in Christ who lived and reigned with Christ for the figurative 1000-year period in wait for the final judgment and the general resurrection of the just and the unjust.


It is the ultimate death that those who are lost will experience at that judgment, the first death being physical death. While the saints and true believers who die physically experience this first death, the second death will have no power over them.



While the main thrust of Revelation 20:6 (KJV) is that the righteous dead are reigning with Christ, there is no reason to believe that those of us on this earth do not share in this reign now. One of the major losses of the premillinialists is that, in their quest for a worldly kingdom in the future, they fail to recognize the blessings of Christ reigning in our lives now. Ephesians 2:6 (KJV)


Let us now compare scripture with scripture to interpret the thousand years. In scripture, the term thousand, when in reference to time, is always used symbolically of a predetermined time that God chooses. In other cases, it is always used symbolically for a large number of people or things.


People or Things

If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand. Job 9:3 (KJV)

For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills. Psalms 50:10 (KJV)


Which yet my soul seeketh, but I find not: one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found. Ecclesiastes 7:28 (KJV)


Thy neck is like the tower of David builded for an armoury, whereon there hang a thousand bucklers, all shields of mighty men. Song of Solomon 4:4 (KJV)

Belshazzar the king made a great feast to a thousand of his lords, and drank wine before the thousand. Daniel 5:1 (KJV)

A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. Daniel 7:10 (KJV)


Days, Years, and Generations

Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations. Deuteronomy 7:9 (KJV)

Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations. 1 Chronicles 16:15 (KJV)

For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness. Psalm 84:10 (KJV)

For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. Psalm 90:4 (KJV)


He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations. Psalm 105:5 (KJV)


Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place? Ecclesiastes 6:6 (KJV)

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2 Peter 3:8 (KJV)

enjoy..
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
#2
Cronjecj, don't see why it matters if you think a thousand years are literal or not.

ask them how will the world be different if we were in the short time after the thousand years and Satan is released to deceive the nations?
 

cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
Sep 25, 2011
1,934
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#3
Cronjecj, don't see why it matters if you think a thousand years are literal or not.

ask them how will the world be different if we were in the short time after the thousand years and Satan is released to deceive the nations?
well i guess it all depends on the time it takes for him to deceive the nations isn't so? 7 days, 7 years, 700 years? or 3.5 years..

If you you feel comfortable with this believe ana, then when did Satan start deceiving the nations?

Peace.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#4
7 is symbolic for completeness and 3.5 is incomplete, temporary short period of time.

when did Satan start deceiving the nations?

Genesis 3

1 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”


I don't see the difference between what Satan was doing before the 1000 and after the 1000 years in Revelations truthfully. He's still deceiving the world in all the scriptures I've read.

Revelation 12:9
So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 16:12-14
New King James Version (NKJV)
12 Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and[a] of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Revelation 20
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.


I don't claim to know everything but I truly wonder why people don't think we might be in that short time after the 1000 years have already past but before Jesus comes and establish the New Heaven and New Earth.
 

cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
Sep 25, 2011
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#5
If he has been deceiving the nations from day1 when was he "bound" then?
 
Oct 12, 2011
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#6
Don't get hung up on the word Nations, it can mean other things.
check out the definitions, and the way their used, you might be
suprised.

Locust, and people, and animals is their also.

Blessings.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#7
If he has been deceiving the nations from day1 when was he "bound" then?
when he and his demons were unable to do the signs and wonders that deceived the people. His doctrine and lies were still in the world but Satan himself was not for a period of time.

when was he "bound" then?

Colossians 2:13-15
New King James Version (NKJV)
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

Revelation 12
7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them[a] in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”


what I don't get is the 1000 year reign idea people have. from talking to people it sounds like they believe that 1000 years will be like New Jeresulem, with no sin or crime or anything but that is NOT what the Bible says

what would be the need for judges and priests if everyone in the world worshiped Jesus in Spirit and Truth?

what exactly do people think will happen if Satan is bound?

They will still have their sinful nature. their lusts of the flesh people blame on Satan instead of repenting of THEIR transgression.

If there were no demons how would the world be different?
 

cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
Sep 25, 2011
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#8
when he and his demons were unable to do the signs and wonders that deceived the people. His doctrine and lies were still in the world but Satan himself was not for a period of time. Yes but it can also be that the 1000 years figuratively is STILL IN EFFECT

what I don't get is the 1000 year reign idea people have. from talking to people it sounds like they believe that 1000 years will be like New Jeresulem, with no sin or crime or anything but that is NOT what the Bible says
Yes how can Christ reign on the old earth except it made anew, Christ said His kingdom is NOT of this world and people seems to be ignorant of this

what would be the need for judges and priests if everyone in the world worshiped Jesus in Spirit and Truth?
TRUE, because simply not everyone rules IN CHRIST now they can't see Him but we can

what exactly do people think will happen if Satan is bound? oh, they think all will be peaceful


They will still have their sinful nature. their lusts of the flesh people blame on Satan instead of repenting of THEIR transgression. exactly


..made input in red

you've already cast off dispensationalism :)

You know as well as i do that the thousand is FIGURATIVE right ana?

does the angel have a literal key and chain? no
does he take hold of a literal dragon? no
does he take hold of a literal serpent? no
does the term "a thousand years" have to be literal? - does it say it comes AFTER THE SECOND ADVENT? no
 
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Apr 13, 2011
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#9
...what I don't get is the 1000 year reign idea people have. from talking to people it sounds like they believe that 1000 years will be like New Jeresulem, with no sin or crime or anything but that is NOT what the Bible says
The thousand year kingdom WILL be like that. That's when "swords will be beat into plowshares", people will dwell in safety, plenty to eat, etc, etc. Where does the bible NOT say that?

what would be the need for judges and priests if everyone in the world worshiped Jesus in Spirit and Truth?
There will be believers who make it through the trib. They will still be flesh and blood, able to sin. They will require ruling with a "rod of iron". Why do you think the bible says Christ will rule with a "rod of iron" if everyone will automatically be sinless?

what exactly do people think will happen if Satan is bound?
No disastrous weather events, no crime, no sickness, no famine, and on and on.

They will still have their sinful nature. their lusts of the flesh people blame on Satan instead of repenting of THEIR transgression.
Yes, the people who make it through the trib will have the ability to sin, but Christ will rule with a rod of iron.

[/quote]If there were no demons how would the world be different?[/quote]
With Christ ruling and no demons to affect people? I assume that's a rhetorical question.....
 
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
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#10
you've already cast off dispensationalism :)

Too bad...

You know as well as i do that the thousand is FIGURATIVE right ana?
does the angel have a literal key and chain? no
does he take hold of a literal dragon? no
does he take hold of a literal serpent? no

Will the devil and his demons be literally bound? Yes

does the term "a thousand years" have to be literal?
It doesn't -have- to be, but it is a literal period of time that will happen in the future.

- does it say it comes AFTER THE SECOND ADVENT? no
Actually, it does....
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#11
The thousand year kingdom WILL be like that. That's when "swords will be beat into plowshares", people will dwell in safety, plenty to eat, etc, etc. Where does the bible NOT say that?


There will be believers who make it through the trib. They will still be flesh and blood, able to sin. They will require ruling with a "rod of iron". Why do you think the bible says Christ will rule with a "rod of iron" if everyone will automatically be sinless?


No disastrous weather events, no crime, no sickness, no famine, and on and on.


Yes, the people who make it through the trib will have the ability to sin, but Christ will rule with a rod of iron.

If there were no demons how would the world be different?
With Christ ruling and no demons to affect people? I assume that's a rhetorical question.....
the plow share thing talks about NEW Earth and NEW Heaven. why do you believe it refers to the 1000 year reign?

I believe that Jesus rules NOW with a rod of iron.

Satan does NOT create the disastrous weather, crime, sickness or famine. that is caused by this curse:
Genesis 3
17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:
“ Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life
.

18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.

19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.”


New Earth and New Heaven will be created without the curse and yes that is in the future.

The question was not rhetorical if the world is still cursed and the people still have their sin nature but there are no demons, how would this world be different?

Cronjecj, 1000 years doesn't have to be literal but if it was why don't people take these words as literal as well?

Matthew 24:34
Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
 
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cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
Sep 25, 2011
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#12
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#13
I believe that Jesus rules NOW with a rod of iron.
jesus is ruling now...but are we reigning with him? that is one of the requirements for fulfilling the millennium...
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#14
jesus is ruling now...but are we reigning with him? that is one of the requirements for fulfilling the millennium...
those who have been found worthy are reigning with Him:

Revelations 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[a] thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.


Have you been beheaded for your witness of Jesus? Have you refused to worship the beast and his image? Have you refused to receive his mark on your forehead or hand?

Does Jesus reign in Heaven and in the NEW Earth and New Jeresulem or on this Old Earth?
 

cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
Sep 25, 2011
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#15
jesus is ruling now...but are we reigning with him? that is one of the requirements for fulfilling the millennium...
We are made alive in Christ. 1 Corinthians 15:22 (KJV)

Behold the kingdom of God is within you. Luke 17:21 (KJV)

And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power. Mark 9:1 (KJV)

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son. Colossians 1:13 (KJV)

We reign with Christ now (spiritually) Ephesians 2:6 (KJV)
 
Apr 13, 2011
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#17
It was a good thing.
Dispensationalism is still a good thing.

Will the devil and his demons be literally bound? Yes

How come?
One, because the bible says so. Two, so we can live as promised in the millennial kingdom. It will be paradise on earth.

It doesn't -have- to be, but it is a figurative period of time that already happened.
No... None of the events in Rev have happened yet.

oh my...

...this mushrooms looks good.
You're a clever guy. :rolleyes:
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#18
Dispensationalism is still a good thing. nope its not Biblical


One, because the bible says so. Two, so we can live as promised in the millennial kingdom. It will be paradise on earth. nope that is not what the millennial kingdom promises that is what NEW Earth is. do you have Bible verses that say that the millennial kingdom will be paradise on Earth? I have some that talk about NEW Earth like that but none for the millennial kingdom


No... None of the events in Rev have happened yet. you can't be serious?


You're a clever guy. :rolleyes:

one example of something that has already happened...

the seven Churches? past, present or future?

Revelation 2:5
Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent.


so lampstand still there, yes or no?
 

cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
Sep 25, 2011
1,934
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#19
What, exactly, are you doing?
not ''doing'' anything.

im made alive IN CHRIST.

Meaning: we see the world as God sees it, the whole world is filled with God's glory.

However the world does not sees it this way because they are yet to be born of the Spirit if any.

JESUS IS IN EVERYTHING. ive seen the real thing, won't turn back now....nope sri.
 
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
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#20
the plow share thing talks about NEW Earth and NEW Heaven. why do you believe it refers to the 1000 year reign?
In the new heaven and earth there won't be any swords to beat into plowshares.

I believe that Jesus rules NOW with a rod of iron.
What is he ruling? If he's ruling this earth, he isn't doing a very good job.

Satan does NOT create the disastrous weather, crime, sickness or famine. that is caused by this curse:
Genesis 3
17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:
Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life
.

18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.

19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.”
Yes, the earth is cursed. But I believe the devil is directly responsible for much of the travesties we see in this life.

2 Cor 4:4) In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

1 John 5:19) And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

New Earth and New Heaven will be created without the curse and yes that is in the future.
Yes. Also, the curse will be removed from this current earth at the start of the millennial kingdom.

The question was not rhetorical if the world is still cursed and the people still have their sin nature but there are no demons, how would this world be different?
When Christ starts ruling this earth the curse will be removed. The natural people who made it through the trib will still have the ability to sin, but again, Christ will be ruling with a rod of iron, and will keep things in check.

Cronjecj, 1000 years doesn't have to be literal but if it was why don't people take these words as literal as well?

Matthew 24:34
Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
The mystery had not yet been revealed, but that's another topic.