gal 3:10-12 to those who keep looking law ward.

eternally-gratefull · Jun 16, 2013

Working out your own salvation is working the RESULT of your salvation. Being lights in the world, not giving them something to use against you (IE hypocracy) It is living your life in a way which God can use you.

the fear (which paul always had) is doing something which would cause you to lose your ability to work for God.

resurrection33 · Jun 16, 2013

crossnote said:

He expects us to do OUR part, also.

eternally-gratefull · Jun 16, 2013

resurrection33 said:

All parents expect their kids to obey them, and live productive lives. It does not mean they all will.

Yet a real parent loves each child unconditionally no matter what. God is no different..

resurrection33 · Jun 16, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

But we cannot find lasting peace until we do as he says.

eternally-gratefull · Jun 16, 2013

resurrection33 said:

No argument here. Because we can not learn to really trust him until we get to know him and and his ways, a find out he really has our best interest at heart..

crossnote · Jun 16, 2013

resurrection33 said:

We have peace and salvation through His blood. We move on from that vantage point.

savedNblessed · Jun 16, 2013

notuptome said:

Really good point. If you are a child of God and you commit a grievous sin then what? How does grace and the law cooperate in this matter? You become a child of God one time. You are then a child of God forever. No matter what you do you are still God's child. You Father Who is God knows what you have done. He is grieved by your sin. He will forgive you if you come to Him and ask forgiveness. The law can only condemn you for your sin and it does so for every sin. The law demands a penalty, death, but grace provides forgiveness. The child of God knows they have offended their heavenly Father without the law. Still the blood of Christ atones, satisfies the demand of the law, for the sin of the child of God but there remains no fellowship with the Father until the sin is confessed, forgiven and repented of. A child of God cannot be happy if he or she cannot come to the Father crying Abba Father. Those who sin and expect no consequence are in error. Those who sin and do not feel convicted about their sin may be lacking the Holy Spirit which indicates they do not possess what they profess. If it's wrong for the sinner it's wrong for the saint. Difference being the sinner pay's for his sins on his/her own while the saint has his/her sins paid for by Christ. The saint must stand before Christ and account for the things done good or bad. A heart that does not grasp the magnitude of the judgment needs to go back and confirm that it received from Christ that which the head claims to have received.
Sorry for the rambling reply but it is just one of those things that believers understand and sinners find to be foolishness.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

But my point was, does receiving grace, give us free license to sin? Even after we receive grace, shouldn't we follow what He has commanded (the law)? Like you said(and I also believe it) that we all would have to stand in front of Him one day and give account of our actions (good or bad). So how will we be judged then? If we love Him shouldn't we follow His commandments?

starfield · Jun 17, 2013

haz said:

Depends on what you mean by "wrong". Christians aren't infallible thus will make misjudgments in certain areas. Also note that the bible teaches that there is sin unto death and sin not unto death. The former is presumptuous sin which is persistent and premeditated while the latter is non-presumptuous which is done out of ignorance. The Psalmist took note of this: "Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults [non-presumptuous, unrecognised sins]. Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression" (Psalms 19:12-13).

As we are walking with the Saviour, His blood cleanses us from all sin.

ChosenbyHim · Jun 17, 2013

savedNblessed said:

No, that is definitely not okay. There are serious consequences for our sins. Especially adultery. If we live after the flesh, we will die.

Romans 8:12-15 KJV
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. [13] For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. [14] For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. [15] For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

A Christian can mess his or her life up very badly if they live after the flesh.

We Christians are commanded to not grieve the Holy Spirit:

Ephesians 4:29-30 KJV
Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. [30] And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

True born again Christians are sealed with the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. Therefore they are eternally secure. A true Christian cannot lose salvation. Now a Christian who messes with sin can lose a lot of other things, they can lose their health, their testimony, their joy, their respect, rewards and crowns they also can lose at the Judgment Seat of Christ. A Christian can even have their life cut short. And also if a Christian is messing with sin, then they will not have good fellowship with the Father while living on earth. You are still his child, but you will be far from the Lord in terms of fellowship. Plus there are consequences that will be the result of sins in a Christian's life. And some of those consequences, that Christian will have to deal with for the rest of his life. Will that Christian be forgiven? Sure. But he will still have to live with the consequences resulting from the sin which he had committed. For example, if a Christian gets aids from committing adultery, even though that Christian is forgiven, he still will have to live with aids for the rest of his life.

crossnote · Jun 17, 2013

savedNblessed said:

The Christian has received a new nature, God''s nature, he is born again. That new nature will desire to please God and glorify him not sin freely thus grieve His Lord. Even if his flesh gets the upper hand the Holy Spirit will see to it that discipline will be applied.

JaumeJ · Jun 17, 2013

Luk 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
Luk 18:8
I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
Mat 7:12 All things therefore whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you, even so do ye also unto them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Mat 7:13
Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby.
Mat 7:14 For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it.
Joh 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself unto him.
The following carefully separates the commandments of God and the Faith of Jesus Christ, although they are one.
Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints, they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

JaumeJ · Jun 17, 2013

2Ti 4:2
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

haz · Jun 17, 2013

starfield said:

True, we aren't infallible in this imperfect physical world.
And what I mean by wrong is any wrong behavior we do, which even includes persistent wrongs we might do due to the many varied factors that determine and also affect our weakness/failings.

I don't use the term "sin" as God gives us specific definitions of sin which, if we use them, then we'll understand why scripture says that Christians have "ceased from sin" (1Pet 4:1) and "cannot sin" (1John 3;9).

Who shall lay any thing (even sin) to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifies. Rom 8:33

.

starfield said:

I understand that the sin unto death is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, for which there is no forgiveness.
The sin not unto death is referring to those in unbelief or being tempted to slip back under the law, who still have the possibility to repent and receive Christ and have their sins forgiven.

Anyway, back to my questions.
If a believer does wrong are they unrighteous for doing so?
If so then what is that unrighteousness measured by?
How do you determine righteousness in a Christian?

nl · Jun 17, 2013

When Jesus began his public ministry in Galilee, his message was: Repent (Mark 1:15).

When Holy Spirit power came upon the early church on the Day of Pentecost and Peter became bold and began to preach, Peter's message was: Repent (Acts 1:38).

As the first century neared its close and the elderly Apostle John was exiled on the island of Patmos, Jesus gave him a message for seven churches and repeatedly, the message for the churches was: Repent (Revelation 2: 5, 21, 22, 3: 3, 19).

Holiness and purity matter. Disciples of Jesus are called to repentance and this is more than a one time event.

The narrow way that leads to life (Matthew 7:14) is a way of hearing and heeding and repentance. If you have ears, please hear.

eternally-gratefull · Jun 17, 2013

savedNblessed said:

I don't think anyone is saying we have a free license to sin. The issue is, Can we lose salvation based on the law. According to the law. the only way that would happen is if we are saved by the law and grace, and if this is the case. only sinnless perfection after salvation would suffice, would you not agree?

eternally-gratefull · Jun 17, 2013

nl said:

How can it be more of a one time event. Would it not be mocking if we keep repenting of the same stuff over and over, Would it not have been a lie then? If I say I changed my mind, I am a sinner. and these sins separate me from God, and I can only be forgiven based on his death. How can I keep coming back and saying this? this makes no sense.

homwardbound · Jun 17, 2013

resurrection33 said:

Not God's part
Matthew 11:30For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
and we are to take the above on all God and none of us except to vessels as a water glass is a vessel for us to use as we see fit. God is the same for me and all that trust, God willingly submit and the yoke and burden is light and easy just as Christ said

homwardbound · Jun 17, 2013

resurrection33 said:

by putting forth the effort to keep from temptation brings temptation forward and we do what we do not want to do. This is a good start in showing us our comlete inability to obey law being in the flesh that is weak, unredeemed flesh. so by trying to stop shows our need because we can't stop when we sow (think) about stopping flesh it
[h=3]Galatians 6:8[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]8 [/SUP]For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.
Take on God's yoke and burden it is light and easy. No fear in perfect love, God is perfect love, no more man works,

Believe, see, recieve

Wall · Jun 17, 2013

Wall said:

I should also add that they will take scriptures that are speaking of them that are in Christ (those who have been to the schoolmaster, the law) and claim those scriptures for themselves even though theyve never been to school.

homwardbound · Jun 17, 2013

savedNblessed said:

No it really is not a liscence to sin God's grace, there are those that take it forgranted and think since they are forgiven there is no punishment when if one does not believe or takes this amazing grace for granted saying they believe really do not and have not come to thenew life that is provided by God the Father in the resurrected Christ.
Hebrews 2:3how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,
Galatians 5:13For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
And watch out for works wroughted out by flesh, as in selfindulgence in feeling good about self, because of what one might do otr not do, getting pats on the back for the good works we do.
I tell you the truth, keep works to self, do not shout out about them to get credit for them, God is to get all the credit.
Matthew 6:1[ Do Good to Please God ] “Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven.

Works from salvation being in appreciation to God for Christ our redeemer, we respond in thankfullness and we do not look for reward, because we already got that, and that is life everlastiing, a gift from god to usward while we where yet sinners.
So the choice is ours does it make sense to hurt anyone ever anymore in light of we are forgiven by God through the Son?
Solet us get back to being responders to God, in place of trying to be initiators as is waht happened after the fall, man became initiators, workers of iniquity. God through Christ came to earth to redeem us, restore us back to being waht we where created for. Responders to the Love of God and thus all the same as God loves us, it really is not hard at all

gal 3:10-12 to those who keep looking law ward.

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