Galatian Conundrums

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Mar 28, 2016
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I can now understand better why you have difficulties accepting the mystery of divine plan of redemption.

You seem to read Paul into everything that happened before Paul. Why not read the Bible literally? Here are the relevant scripture involving who Jesus was ministering to when he was in the flesh.
I can now understand better why you have difficulties accepting the mystery of divine plan of redemption.

I don't read Paul anymore than the noble Berean's .

Its not Paul's word as a private interpretation. But is the word of God that effective working in all who have the new born again faith of Christ.

Paul preached the gospel of Christ planting the seed The unseen Spirit of Christ can cause the growth .

It move the Berean's to search the scriptures to see if what Paul said was of God or of men.

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Acts 17.

Walk by faith that comes from hearing the gospel not by sight. Stop looking a Paul
 
Jan 12, 2019
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I can now understand better why you have difficulties accepting the mystery of divine plan of redemption.

I don't read Paul anymore than the noble Berean's .

Its not Paul's word as a private interpretation. But is the word of God that effective working in all who have the new born again faith of Christ.

Paul preached the gospel of Christ planting the seed The unseen Spirit of Christ can cause the growth .

It move the Berean's to search the scriptures to see if what Paul said was of God or of men.

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Acts 17.

Walk by faith that comes from hearing the gospel not by sight. Stop looking a Paul
You are replying to my post and yet not addressing any of my points at all.

But its okay, your posts tend to be like that. Cheers.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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BINGO
You just exposed why the paulines are against the 7 letters to the 7 churches.
I have to admit my ignorance regarding the Paulines, it is a sect I am not familiar with with. Maybe you could fill in the gap for me. Thanks.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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I have googled it. I have always known Jews regarded the Messiah as nothing more than a man and now I learn they reject Paul. All I can say is good luck to anyone who does that.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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I have googled it. I have always known Jews regarded the Messiah as nothing more than a man and now I learn they reject Paul. All I can say is good luck to anyone who does that.
Actually they rejected the entire NT, so naturally Paul is also rejected.
 

FollowtheShepherd

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
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Matthew 7:24-27, " 24 “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Actually they rejected the entire NT, so naturally Paul is also rejected.
Thank you, I am learning, and to think I have been a Christian who has followed New Testament teaching for over 60 years and whole heartedly embrace it all. I did not know of this rift. So may I ask if you accept the teaching of Paul?
 

FollowtheShepherd

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
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2 John 1:9-11, " 9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works."

John/ 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Thank you, I am learning, and to think I have been a Christian who has followed New Testament teaching for over 60 years and whole heartedly embrace it all. I did not know of this rift. So may I ask if you accept the teaching of Paul?
After all my postings to you and others in this thread as well as in other threads, I lol when you asked me that question.

Don’t be misled by absolutely, he is a troll. 🤣
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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After all my postings to you and others in this thread as well as in other threads, I lol when you asked me that question.

Don’t be misled by absolutely, he is a troll. 🤣
To be honest I have never properly understood where you were coming from. I am assuming you reject Paul. Is that correct?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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To be honest I have never properly understood where you were coming from. I am assuming you reject Paul. Is that correct?
I am a mid acts dispensationalist. To ask whether I reject Paul is really 🤣.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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I am a mid acts dispensationalist. To ask whether I reject Paul is really 🤣.
Dispensationalism summary
  • Literal interpretation of the Bible
  • God works via different arrangements in distinct periods of history
  • Israel is the literal descendants of Abraham, not spiritual ones
  • Israel is the heir to the promises made to Abraham about the seed being blessed
  • Participation in the Abrahamic Covenant is “mainly” by physical birth in Jewish lineage
  • Two distinct people groups: Israel and the Church
  • Church began at Pentecost
  • Salvation is by faith in accordance to the revelation given in a particular dispensation
  • The Holy Spirit did not indwell people in all dispensations, only during the dispensation of the Church Age
  • Christ will reign in the future 1000 year period which occurs after the rapture
https://carm.org/dispensationalism

Thank you. Personally, I find Paul important. If I were to label people, I would consider you to be a Jew. Would that be correct?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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The dog wants a walk, back soon, if you tell me you are a Jew physically, that will tell me all I need to know, thanks.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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The dog wants a walk, back soon, if you tell me you are a Jew physically, that will tell me all I need to know, thanks.
Your reading of people is really quite bizarre I have to say :)
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Dispensationalism summary
  • Literal interpretation of the Bible
  • God works via different arrangements in distinct periods of history
  • Israel is the literal descendants of Abraham, not spiritual ones
  • Israel is the heir to the promises made to Abraham about the seed being blessed
  • Participation in the Abrahamic Covenant is “mainly” by physical birth in Jewish lineage
  • Two distinct people groups: Israel and the Church
  • Church began at Pentecost
  • Salvation is by faith in accordance to the revelation given in a particular dispensation
  • The Holy Spirit did not indwell people in all dispensations, only during the dispensation of the Church Age
  • Christ will reign in the future 1000 year period which occurs after the rapture
https://carm.org/dispensationalism

Thank you. Personally, I find Paul important. If I were to label people, I would consider you to be a Jew. Would that be correct?
I think you are reading the wrong page. The key error is this
  • Church began at Pentecost
Mid Acts believed that the "church" defined as the body of Christ which comprise of Jews and Gentiles, could not have begun at Pentecost. Peter preached only to the "Men of Israel" throughout the entire Acts, with Cornelius being the only one off exception. Peter also preached the Gospel of the Kingdom throughout Acts.

So it could not have started with Peter at Acts 2. Your page is referring to classical dispensationalism not Mid Acts. The rest of the points are basically correct.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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The dog wants a walk, back soon, if you tell me you are a Jew physically, that will tell me all I need to know, thanks.
Did you really ask me whether I am a Jew, after I just told you I am a mid acts dispensationalist and after you did a google check on the beliefs of dispensationalism?

That is really so bizarre. :LOL:
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
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hmm, would it be useful to define "the church" in this view @Guojing

I'm just having a difficult time understanding why Romans 1:16 couldn't potentially factor in your thought process.

It actually bothers me that the Jews are first but I'm sure it will make sense eventually...my mind has taken that in way too many directions and I sort of leave it alone. It's what was said, and that's that. I digress.


Why is it problematic to presume that the church began first with the Jew and then extended to the Gentile/greek? Seems like a good deal of scriptural support. It does appear like the Lord had to make to the Jews see that the Gentiles also also are of the body but they were second seemingly.


I could take a bit of time thinking it out, but I haven't ever had an issue with that line of thought, other than the why.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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hmm, would it be useful to define "the church" in this view @Guojing

I'm just having a difficult time understanding why Romans 1:16 couldn't potentially factor in your thought process.

It actually bothers me that the Jews are first but I'm sure it will make sense eventually...my mind has taken that in way too many directions and I sort of leave it alone. It's what was said, and that's that. I digress.


Why is it problematic to presume that the church began first with the Jew and then extended to the Gentile/greek? Seems like a good deal of scriptural support. It does appear like the Lord had to make to the Jews see that the Gentiles also also are of the body but they were second seemingly.


I could take a bit of time thinking it out, but I haven't ever had an issue with that line of thought, other than the why.
Remember the final question the 11 asked Jesus before the latter ascended to heaven?

I mean, if you are not going to see the Son of God in the flesh ever again, I am sure your last question would be the most critical to you?

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

Do you realize none of the apostles were asking about whether Jews and Gentiles can now be saved together? They were not told anything about the mystery of the body of Christ comprising of Jews and Gentiles living in equality, that was revealed specifically to the Apostle Paul in Ephesians 2 and 3.

As I have said elsewhere in this thread, U have to understand OT prophecy about the divine timetable.

Many prophecies in the Kingdom program for Israel are dependent on the Jewish nation accepting their King before they can happen. I would think all the Jews then, who have been taught the OT since they were young, would have understood them.

Jeremiah 23:5 KJV Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness.

Luke 1 NLT 30 “Don’t be afraid, Mary,” the angel told her, “for you have found favor with God! 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you will name him Jesus. 32 He will be very great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his ancestor David. 33 And he will reign over Israel[c] forever; his Kingdom will never end!”

Zechariah 8 explains

3 “Thus says the Lord: ‘I will return to Zion, And dwell in the midst of Jerusalem. Jerusalem shall be called the City of Truth, The Mountain of the Lord of hosts, The Holy Mountain.’

Later on, in the chapter in Zechariah 8:20-23 New Living Translation (NLT)

20 “This is what the Lord of Heaven’s Armies says: People from nations and cities around the world will travel to Jerusalem. 21 The people of one city will say to the people of another, ‘Come with us to Jerusalem to ask the Lord to bless us. Let’s worship the Lord of Heaven’s Armies. I’m determined to go.’ 22 Many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the Lord of Heaven’s Armies and to ask for his blessing. 23 “This is what the Lord of Heaven’s Armies says: In those days ten men from different nations and languages of the world will clutch at the sleeve of one Jew. And they will say, ‘Please let us walk with you, for we have heard that God is with you.’”

A similar prophecy was given in Micah Chapter 4 (NLT)
In the last days, the mountain of the Lord’s house will be the highest of all—the most important place on earth. It will be raised above the other hills, and people from all over the world will stream there to worship.
2 People from many nations will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of Jacob’s God. There he will teach us his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” For the Lord’s teaching will go out from Zion; his word will go out from Jerusalem.

Finally, the same prophecy was given in the book of Isaiah chapter 2:2

In the last days, the mountain of the Lord’s house will be the highest of all—the most important place on earth. It will be raised above the other hills, and people from all over the world will stream there to worship.

So, based on these 3 accounts, the timeline was supposed to be Jews are to be saved first, once they accept Jesus as the Messiah, then the Kingdom will be established in Jerusalem and the Jews will then be priests spreading that blessings to all the Gentiles.

That is why the body of Christ could not have begun in Acts 2. The Kingdom program was still valid in early Acts, it ended after Stephen was stoned.

Finally, when Jesus was on Earth, he also said this to the Samaritan woman

John 4:22 New Living Translation (NLT)
22 You Samaritans know very little about the one you worship, while we Jews know all about him, for salvation comes through the Jews.

Once you understand from the perspective of the Jews then, such verses in Acts become easily understood, such as

Acts 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

Why did the 12 stubbornly remained in Jerusalem despite the great persecution?

Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

Why did the majority of those scattered kept preaching to the Jews only? By what you said, shouldn't they understand the GC in Matt 28 is urging them to preach to Gentiles?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Did you really ask me whether I am a Jew, after I just told you I am a mid acts dispensationalist and after you did a google check on the beliefs of dispensationalism?

That is really so bizarre. :LOL:
I find you evasion revealing. If I was one of the apostles I would be saying, "You are not one of us."