Galatian Conundrums

[RickStudies]

just to put this out there. I don't think Rickstudies is suggesting salvation through the law, which is what Paul was talking against. I think there's just a bit of confusion in the thread that may or may not be intentional. Doesn't seem intentional.

personally I ascribe critical importance to the law in my understanding of grace. It shows me where I need it when I get too wrapped up in self-righteousness...I know the law is a schoolmaster (Gal 3:24-25) and that has been evident throughout my life. For me it is about "remembrance" of the law and what it points to.


I presume that most don't vacillate on the pharasaical extreme as much so it makes sense why there are disagreements. I certainly would love to go back to "law keeping" in humanistic strength "if" it could be done. It can't though, only Yeshua fulfilled the law and I have attempted and failed. It is enough to know that whatever I am attempting when I do that, the Lord is not pleased with. So I don't do that anymore.

currently wrestling with the concept of law based grace vs grace based law but it's vague at present and I'd need to be considerably less vague.


I just think that people vacillate on a spectrum with the work of the cross at the center.

here's a post about this in a sabbath thread @RickStudies that I typed.

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/sabbath.186759/page-4#post-4006336


I'm still figuring out the messianic jew side of christianity and I think it's an individual calling/path not a prescription.



Is this more or less what you mean? I think there is potential error in saying there are two gospels...I'll have to think on it but it makes more sense to say that there are two methods for the gospel. Which can be seen in the ministry of circumcision and uncircumcision. You speak to an orthodox Jew differently than a pagan.

I appriciate your post, I needed something intelligent to respond to. Forgive my snarkyness but i`m getting fed up. I`m not used to people having such issue with scriptures anymore.

There is one everlasting gospel according to the book of Revelation. In Galatians 7:2 the word gospel appears twice each is assigned to a different Apostle presiding over two distinct groups who led very different lifestyles. 1 + 1 = 2 which is why I said the number 2

The Gosple of Peter is gospel of the Kingdom as preached by Jesus. Jesus taught to keep the law and it carried over into Peter`s preaching which is why you see Peter in Acts 10 still keeping the law. You cannot find a verse in which Christ says to quit the Law.

Paul spent 3 years in the desert with Jesus where he recieved his gospel. Paul`s Gospel is the amended version of Jesus gospel that contains knowledge/doctrine that had not previously been made known.

The Messianic Jew side is a modern day/end time equilivant to Peter`s churches. Prophetically a very important development.
As a Gentle you not called to sojourne in spite of what the Hebrew Root cult says. Don`t get the two mixed up. Thx

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Yes I remember. I was just trying to work with what he is giving me. I`ve almost had enough harassment for one day

this is a discussion forum

not the rickstudies exclusive commentary on all things rick has studied

you can always create your own website or blog

 

[RickStudies]

well perhaps you underestimate the work of the Holy Spirit

I won't bring up the obvious conclusion I see there

anyway, you know what is unreasonable?

a person who stands under a lone tree on a golf course when a thunderstorm gathers above him because 'he was there first'

If you think the Holy Spirit is leading the Messianic Jews away from their traditions and the Torah then you are badly mistaken.
Maybe you knew some Christian Jews. Messianic Jew don`t consider themselves Christians.

 

[RickStudies]

this is a discussion forum

not the rickstudies exclusive commentary on all things rick has studied

you can always create your own website or blog

I did create this thread and the topics in it.

 

[RickStudies]

tradition is not law

Gentile Christians have traditions also

tradition is not the gospel though

and at the risk of boring the flighty among us, tradition is not law

Many of the Jewish traditions are part of the law, especially the holidays.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

That one is funny. My Biblical expertise keeps getting criticized but I`ve seen see very little Biblical rebutal. Nothing solid, to be expected tho because there isn`t any.

oh ricky ricky what are we going to do with you ... you little wearer of the cloth of wikination

I for one posted an entire section of scripture from Galatians and you called it a rant because I pointed out what was being said

others have also posted scripture

however do you get your head through normal sized doorways?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I did create this thread and the topics in it.

hahahahahaha


welcome to CC

you don't own it dude

you are just allowed to type in your whatever...kinda like wiki

you didn't create the Bible either...but you are using it...badly I might add

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Many of the Jewish traditions are part of the law, especially the holidays.

no

they are about remembering the acts of God towards them as a Jewish nation

I cannot believe how ignorant you are of something you fancy you are an expert on...and I quote 'my expertise'

certain Christian holidays are derived from Jewish days...so says wiki

I am really questioning your comment that holidays are part of the law...in a rhetorical fashion not because I want to actually know how you reached that conclusion

smh

 

[7seasrekeyed]

this thread is hijacked?

I would say it never left the runway

 

[posthuman]

oh ricky ricky what are we going to do with you ... you little wearer of the cloth of wikination

let's archive all his posts; we can call it 'Rickypedia'

 

[posthuman]

this thread is hijacked?

i thought that was weird, too. from the opening it was about Rick rolling with two different gospels. we're still talking about there being only one gospel, right? and subtopics directly related to it. *shrug*

 

[7seasrekeyed]

If you think the Holy Spirit is leading the Messianic Jews away from their traditions and the Torah then you are badly mistaken.
Maybe you knew some Christian Jews. Messianic Jew don`t consider themselves Christians.

I didn't say that though

just as there are groups within broad 'Christianity', at least they are referred to as Christian BY WIKI...such as Jehovah's Witness, Mormons, 7th Dayers etc, there are groups within Messianic believers who make their own rules as they go along

I especially like to hear spirit filled Messianics talk about the Messiah

they really are on fire

 

[RickStudies]

no


I am really questioning your comment that holidays are part of the law...in a rhetorical fashion not because I want to actually know how you reached that conclusion

smh

I read the Bible.

Leviticus 23 King James Version (KJV)

23 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

4 These are the feasts of the Lord, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the Lord's passover.

6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

9 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:

11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.

12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the Lord.

13 And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the Lord for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.

14 And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:

16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the Lord.

17 Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals; they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the Lord.

18 And ye shall offer with the bread seven lambs without blemish of the first year, and one young bullock, and two rams: they shall be for a burnt offering unto the Lord, with their meat offering, and their drink offerings, even an offering made by fire, of sweet savour unto the Lord.

19 Then ye shall sacrifice one kid of the goats for a sin offering, and two lambs of the first year for a sacrifice of peace offerings.

20 And the priest shall wave them with the bread of the firstfruits for a wave offering before the Lord, with the two lambs: they shall be holy to the Lord for the priest.

21 And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.

22 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the Lord your God.

23 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.

25 Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord.

26 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

27 Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord.

28 And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the Lord your God.

29 For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.

30 And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people.

31 Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.

33 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

34 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the feast of tabernacles for seven days unto the Lord.

35 On the first day shall be an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

36 Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord: it is a solemn assembly; and ye shall do no servile work therein.

37 These are the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day:

38 Beside the sabbaths of the Lord, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the Lord.

39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.

40 And ye shall take you on the first day the boughs of goodly trees, branches of palm trees, and the boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook; and ye shall rejoice before the Lord your God seven days.

41 And ye shall keep it a feast unto the Lord seven days in the year. It shall be a statute for ever in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month.

42 Ye shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are Israelites born shall dwell in booths:

43 That your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.

44 And Moses declared unto the children of Israel the feasts of the Lord.

 

[RickStudies]

Also


Deuteronomy 16 King James Version (KJV)
16 Observe the month of Abib, and keep the passover unto the Lord thy God: for in the month of Abib the Lord thy God brought thee forth out of Egypt by night.

2 Thou shalt therefore sacrifice the passover unto the Lord thy God, of the flock and the herd, in the place which the Lord shall choose to place his name there.

3 Thou shalt eat no leavened bread with it; seven days shalt thou eat unleavened bread therewith, even the bread of affliction; for thou camest forth out of the land of Egypt in haste: that thou mayest remember the day when thou camest forth out of the land of Egypt all the days of thy life.

4 And there shall be no leavened bread seen with thee in all thy coast seven days; neither shall there any thing of the flesh, which thou sacrificedst the first day at even, remain all night until the morning.

5 Thou mayest not sacrifice the passover within any of thy gates, which the Lord thy God giveth thee:

6 But at the place which the Lord thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt.

7 And thou shalt roast and eat it in the place which the Lord thy God shall choose: and thou shalt turn in the morning, and go unto thy tents.

8 Six days thou shalt eat unleavened bread: and on the seventh day shall be a solemn assembly to the Lord thy God: thou shalt do no work therein.

9 Seven weeks shalt thou number unto thee: begin to number the seven weeks from such time as thou beginnest to put the sickle to the corn.

10 And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks unto the Lord thy God with a tribute of a freewill offering of thine hand, which thou shalt give unto the Lord thy God, according as the Lord thy God hath blessed thee:

11 And thou shalt rejoice before the Lord thy God, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and the Levite that is within thy gates, and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, that are among you, in the place which the Lord thy God hath chosen to place his name there.

12 And thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in Egypt: and thou shalt observe and do these statutes.

13 Thou shalt observe the feast of tabernacles seven days, after that thou hast gathered in thy corn and thy wine:

14 And thou shalt rejoice in thy feast, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and the Levite, the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, that are within thy gates.

15 Seven days shalt thou keep a solemn feast unto the Lord thy God in the place which the Lord shall choose: because the Lord thy God shall bless thee in all thine increase, and in all the works of thine hands, therefore thou shalt surely rejoice.

16 Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the Lord thy God in the place which he shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles: and they shall not appear before the Lord empty:

17 Every man shall give as he is able, according to the blessing of the Lord thy God which he hath given thee.

18 Judges and officers shalt thou make thee in all thy gates, which the Lord thy God giveth thee, throughout thy tribes: and they shall judge the people with just judgment.

19 Thou shalt not wrest judgment; thou shalt not respect persons, neither take a gift: for a gift doth blind the eyes of the wise, and pervert the words of the righteous.

20 That which is altogether just shalt thou follow, that thou mayest live, and inherit the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

 

[garee]

This states in effect that on gospel teaches the law is required,

If the law condems anyone who does not meet its standard, how can that be good news (gospel). That can only be bad news for one group. Who have no means of salvation.

Before you get mad, you said on group must follow the law as per the gospel given to them. So what i said is true,

The letter of the law condemns to death . . ."You will surely die" and will continue to until the last day when the letter of the law (death) is thrown into the judgment fire of God while the unseen law of faith creates anew and heals.. Two kinds of laws that together create one perfect law ,The written laws reveal the wrath of God from heaven. A dying creation. . . . and the unseen law of faith

Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Those who do not mix the unseen will of God in what they hear or see forfeit the gospel understanding. They receive no rest from God working in their hearts as the believers daily sabbath. (Hebrews 4)

The letter of the law as the judgments of God were met by the suffering of Christ by the work of the father and Son giving us the peace of God.

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

We are perfected, made complete by his three day labor of love the father and son working together .It did the work of converting our souls giving us His understanding so that we could believe Him not seen . One new law made perfect by the work of two.of .


Psalm 19:6-8 King James Version (KJV) His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.

The perfect law works all of the works of God faithfully in the believer .

 

[RickStudies]

The letter of the law condemns to death . . ."You will surely die" and will continue to until the last day when the letter of the law (death) is thrown into the judgment fire of God while the unseen law of faith creates anew and heals.. Two kinds of laws that together create one perfect law ,The written laws reveal the wrath of God from heaven. A dying creation. . . . and the unseen law of faith

Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Those who do not mix the unseen will of God in what they hear or see forfeit the gospel understanding. They receive no rest from God working in their hearts as the believers daily sabbath. (Hebrews 4)

The letter of the law as the judgments of God were met by the suffering of Christ by the work of the father and Son giving us the peace of God.

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

We are perfected, made complete by his three day labor of love the father and son working together .It did the work of converting our souls giving us His understanding so that we could believe Him not seen . One new law made perfect by the work of two.of .


Psalm 19:6-8 King James Version (KJV) His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.

The perfect law works all of the works of God faithfully in the believer .

Psalm 19 is an enthusiastic endorsement of Moses law. It doesn`t reinforce your assertion.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

you know ricky, I really cannot help you out with the fact that you reading the Bible does not correspond to you understanding what you are reading

Jesus said 'this do in remembrance of me'... meaning the bread and the wine

your understanding is that Jesus was making a law for believers in Him

that is your understanding

you came in here with that faulty comprehension and I daresay you will exit the same way

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Psalm 19 is an enthusiastic endorsement of Moses law. It doesn`t reinforce your assertion.

you are not being very smart here ricky

maybe go look at Psalm 19.

you mean Psalm 119 but that does not support your assertion of 2 gospels either

God's laws cannot be broken without repercussions. those repercussions are being cut off from God because He is holy and sin cannot be in His presence, and death

we all endorse what God states if we actually believe what He states

we accept His only way out of our sin predicament by accepting His offering of His only Son on the cross

we agree the law of the Lord is good because it is a representation of His holiness and we cannot keep it and breaking it results in both spiritual and physical death

in fact, Jesus even said our thoughts judge us and not just our actions

you need to go back and study more but this time, instead of wiki, try and take a concordance and possibly a commentary or two with you and when you know how to use those, you can graduate to actually looking into the original languages and possibly the culture and history of the time

I have 0 expectations you will do that but we can hope

I read the Bible.

well that's great. the Bible is still the most widely read book in the world I think, so you are a part of those ranks

if I or someone else here who has pointed out your errors would reply to you with 'I read the Bible' in response to your assertions, you would say 'so what that proves nothing. you have denied all scripture posted that refutes your 2 gospel sideways dance routine, so you know, it appears the only responsible thing to say regarding you reading the Bible is

so what

moving on...

 

[RickStudies]

you know ricky, I really cannot help you out with the fact that you reading the Bible does not correspond to you understanding what you are reading

Jesus said 'this do in remembrance of me'... meaning the bread and the wine

your understanding is that Jesus was making a law for believers in Him

that is your understanding

you came in here with that faulty comprehension and I daresay you will exit the same way

I dunno what that rant is supposed to mean but I don`t think you are capable of helping anyone. Your demeaner suggests you are unregenerate. Nice fit for several of your peers.

 

[RickStudies]

you are not being very smart here ricky

maybe go look at Psalm 19.

you mean Psalm 119 but that does not support your assertion of 2 gospels either

God's laws cannot be broken without repercussions. those repercussions are being cut off from God because He is holy and sin cannot be in His presence, and death

we all endorse what God states if we actually believe what He states

we accept His only way out of our sin predicament by accepting His offering of His only Son on the cross

we agree the law of the Lord is good because it is a representation of His holiness and we cannot keep it and breaking it results in both spiritual and physical death

in fact, Jesus even said our thoughts judge us and not just our actions

you need to go back and study more but this time, instead of wiki, try and take a concordance and possibly a commentary or two with you and when you know how to use those, you can graduate to actually looking into the original languages and possibly the culture and history of the time

I have 0 expectations you will do that but we can hope



well that's great. the Bible is still the most widely read book in the world I think, so you are a part of those ranks

if I or someone else here who has pointed out your errors would reply to you with 'I read the Bible' in response to your assertions, you would say 'so what that proves nothing. you have denied all scripture posted that refutes your 2 gospel sideways dance routine, so you know, it appears the only responsible thing to say regarding you reading the Bible is

so what

moving on...

Garee said it was psalm 19, I didn`t fact check him. You seem worked up. How about those holidays eh