Galatians 4:30 - the death knell for dispensationalism
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The literal words seen, convey a spiritual meaning ....not seen . We compare the spiritual not seen to the same called "faith to faith as it is written . The literal words the letter of the law kill. The spiritual understanding heals.
Calling it "mythical" as if it remains a mystery does not dismiss the theological responsibility of rightly dividing what it infallibly informs us.
The prescriptions for rightly dividing must be theologically applied. Without parables the allegorical teaching, the spiritual understanding is hid. Christ, the word of God spoke not without parables.
Without the prescription for rightly dividing parables found in 2 Corinthians 4:18 men would have no idea what it means that the church is the mother of us all. It certainly has nothing to do with the outward flesh of a Jew or a gentile. That’s a man distinction which disappears in the parables.
2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which “are seen”, but at the things which “are not seen”: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Paraphrased it would read.. While we look not at the things which are seen, the flesh of a Jew or a Gentile , but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen flesh and blood are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal, the new promised incorruptible bodies
Failure to distinguish between the things seen of man from the things not seen of God, clearly offends God who is not a man as us and remains not seen .
That can be seen when Peter blasphemes the Holy name by which we are called heavenward. Acting as a dynamic duel (God said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan ) as one of the many antichrists that were there at that time period as an example this helps us define how the spirit of the antichrist (Satan) works to prevent the gospel from going out.
(Purple in parenthesis) my personal comments.
Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the (unseen) things that be of God, but those (seen) that be of men. Mat 16:22
Calling it "mythical" as if it remains a mystery does not dismiss the theological responsibility of rightly dividing what it infallibly informs us.
The prescriptions for rightly dividing must be theologically applied. Without parables the allegorical teaching, the spiritual understanding is hid. Christ, the word of God spoke not without parables.
Without the prescription for rightly dividing parables found in 2 Corinthians 4:18 men would have no idea what it means that the church is the mother of us all. It certainly has nothing to do with the outward flesh of a Jew or a gentile. That’s a man distinction which disappears in the parables.
2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which “are seen”, but at the things which “are not seen”: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Paraphrased it would read.. While we look not at the things which are seen, the flesh of a Jew or a Gentile , but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen flesh and blood are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal, the new promised incorruptible bodies
Failure to distinguish between the things seen of man from the things not seen of God, clearly offends God who is not a man as us and remains not seen .
That can be seen when Peter blasphemes the Holy name by which we are called heavenward. Acting as a dynamic duel (God said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan ) as one of the many antichrists that were there at that time period as an example this helps us define how the spirit of the antichrist (Satan) works to prevent the gospel from going out.
(Purple in parenthesis) my personal comments.
Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the (unseen) things that be of God, but those (seen) that be of men. Mat 16:22
7
actually, the corg presents Dwight's renderings as though they were the Bible and represented what ALL dispensationalists believe
much like a preterist telling us that Revelation is fulfilled and we are living in the kingdom
much like a cessationist will teach we have the 'perfect' now
wondering what it would look like, if all 3 groups had to wrestle this out at the same time
oh wait...that is what goes on in almost every thread
my bad
much like a preterist telling us that Revelation is fulfilled and we are living in the kingdom
much like a cessationist will teach we have the 'perfect' now
wondering what it would look like, if all 3 groups had to wrestle this out at the same time
oh wait...that is what goes on in almost every thread
my bad
7
I think you may need to review some very, and I do mean very, basic biblical concepts if you believe the above verse, or Galatians in general, but especially the above verse, has anything to do with what you believe and are trying to 'prove'
Sarah was the freewoman and had Issac by the will of God since she was waaay past the age of childbearing
Ishmael was the son of the bondwoman
the antagonism exists to this day
middle east
check it out
actually, the corg presents Dwight's renderings as though they were the Bible and represented what ALL dispensationalists believe
much like a preterist telling us that Revelation is fulfilled and we are living in the kingdom
much like a cessationist will teach we have the 'perfect' now
wondering what it would look like, if all 3 groups had to wrestle this out at the same time
oh wait...that is what goes on in almost every thread
my bad
much like a preterist telling us that Revelation is fulfilled and we are living in the kingdom
much like a cessationist will teach we have the 'perfect' now
wondering what it would look like, if all 3 groups had to wrestle this out at the same time
oh wait...that is what goes on in almost every thread
my bad
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
Tit 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine
For the cause of Christ
Roger
E
Locutus just condemned all people who were Jews living at the time paul wrote the book of galations, in order to try to refut dispensationalsim.
is it any wonder I have him on ignore. His hatred against a doctrine he does not even understand is so deep. He is willing to go this far.
Look at his bolder point, the son of the bondwoman (Who paul said in vs 25 was represented by present day Jerusalem in his letter, which would include peter. James, John, the church in Jerusalem and all who lived there who were also a part of the church) would have nothing to do with the heir of the free woman)
If people would not try to refute things they do not understand so hard. They would not make such grave mistakes.
E
* your second point, can you expound further, what do you mean by different arrangements.
* your third point is wrong, Isreal is the promised nation to whome would come the seed. And God also gave them special things he never gave to any other nation'
* your thirst point is wrong, the heir to the promises made to abraham is anyone who is saved by the seed which came form abraham (i.e., there is no jew or gentile spoken of in the NT)
* Your 4th point is wrong, participation in the abrtahamic covenaqnt is free to all nations, through the seed (in you shall all the nations be blessed)
* your fifth point is faulty, Thge two groups were Israel and Gentile. Both Israel in the OT and the church had gentiles included. (king davids grandmother was a gentile etc etc)
* your 6th point, The church of the OT was Isreal, it was taken away and given to the Gentiles in the NT through paul as Isreal was cut off due to unbelief
* Your 7th point is wrong, Salvation has been by faith in all dispensations,
* Your 8th point is true, The HS only entered certain people in the OT and only for specific times
* your 9th point is true although he will reign after his return and defeat of the final great gentile kingdom. This may be different than the actual rapture, which many think occurs much earlier.
There is a lot more to dispensationalism than these point also.
E
true, and they as a nation are our enemy, but romans 11 makes it clear. We gentiles should not boast of this fact. And hate on Isreal. Because just as they were cut off, we too will be cut off. isreal is just blind in part until the time of the gentile is complete. Then Isreal will repent, and be restored.
The reason you agree with that is because you read the bible, and you believe what it says.
But once you fall into the heresy of preterism which states that the resurrection has already happened, all the prophecies have been fulfilled and we are just hanging around on this planet with no end in sight, you have to start putting everything into "70A.D." this is their favorite mantra. 70Ad 70Ad 70Ad. Everything happened in 70A.D. which of course is just blatantly false.
I encourage you to check it out to learn their horrible arguments and this way you can avoid this doctrine like the flaming garbage can it is.
It aint hard to see why full-preterism isnt taught in any bible believing church.
But once you fall into the heresy of preterism which states that the resurrection has already happened, all the prophecies have been fulfilled and we are just hanging around on this planet with no end in sight, you have to start putting everything into "70A.D." this is their favorite mantra. 70Ad 70Ad 70Ad. Everything happened in 70A.D. which of course is just blatantly false.
I encourage you to check it out to learn their horrible arguments and this way you can avoid this doctrine like the flaming garbage can it is.
It aint hard to see why full-preterism isnt taught in any bible believing church.
I think you need to understand how Paul is using the allegory 7skeered. Paul is not writing about the current situation in the middle east at all at all.
Let's look at what protestant bible scholar Adam Clark had to say:
Full text at:
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/acc/galatians-4.html
Let's look at what protestant bible scholar Adam Clark had to say:
Verse 22
For it is written - Viz. in Genesis 16:15; Genesis 22:1, etc., that Abraham had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac; the one; Ishmael, by a bond maid, Hagar; the other, Isaac, by a free woman, Sarah.
Which things are an allegory - They are to be understood spiritually; more being intended in the account than meets the eye.Allegory, from αλλος, another, and αγορεω, or αγορευω, to speak, signifies a thing that is a representative of another, where the literal sense is the representative of a spiritual meaning; or, as the glossary expresses it, ἑτερως κατα μεταφρασιν νοουμενα, και ου κατα την αναγνωσιν·"where the thing is to be understood differently in the interpretation than it appears in the reading."
For these are the two covenants - These signify two different systems of religion; the one by Moses, the other by the Messiah.
The one from the Mount Sinai - On which the law was published; which was typified by Hagar, Abraham's bond maid.
Which gendereth to bondage - For as the bond maid or slave could only gender - bring forth her children, in a state of slavery, and subject also to become slaves, so all that are born and live under those Mosaic institutions are born and live in a state of bondage - a bondage to various rites and ceremonies; under the obligation to keep the whole law, yet, from its severity and their frailness, obliged to live in the habitual breach of it, and in consequence exposed to the curse which it pronounces.
Is free, which is the mother of us all - There is a spiritual Jerusalem, of which this is the type; and this Jerusalem, in which the souls of all the righteous are, is free from all bondage and sin: or by this, probably, the kingdom of the Messiah was intended; and this certainly answers best to the apostle's meaning, as the subsequent verse shows. There is an earthly Jerusalem, but this earthly Jerusalem typifies a heavenly Jerusalem: the former, with all her citizens, is in bondage; the latter is a free city, and all her inhabitants are free also. And this Jerusalem is our mother; it signifies the Church of Christ, the metropolis of Christianity, or rather the state of liberty into which all true believers are brought. The word παντων, of all, is omitted by almost every MS. and version of antiquity and importance, and by the most eminent of the fathers who quote this place; it is undoubtedly spurious, and the text should be read thus: But Jerusalem, which is above, is free, which is our mother.
Persecuted him - Isaac, who was born after the Spirit - who had a supernatural birth, according to the promise, and through the efficacy, of the Holy Spirit, giving effect to that promise - Sarah shall have a son,Genesis 17:16-21; Genesis 21:1, etc.Persecuted him; the persecution here referred to is that mentioned Genesis 21:9. It consisted in mocking his brother Isaac.
Even so it is now - So the Jews, in every place, persecute the Christians; and show thereby that they are rather of the posterity of Hagar than of Sarah.
Verse 30
What saith the Scripture? - (In Genesis 21:10. Cast out the bond woman and her son: and what does this imply in the present case? Why, that the present Jerusalem and her children shall be cast out of the favor of God, and shall not be heirs with the son of the free woman - shall not inherit the blessings promised to Abraham, because they believe not in the promised seed.
For it is written - Viz. in Genesis 16:15; Genesis 22:1, etc., that Abraham had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac; the one; Ishmael, by a bond maid, Hagar; the other, Isaac, by a free woman, Sarah.
Verse 23
Was born after the flesh - Ishmael was born according to the course of nature, his parents being both of a proper age, so that there was nothing uncommon or supernatural in his birth: this is the proper meaning of the apostle's κατα σαρκα, after or according to the flesh, and answers to the Hebrew phrase, בשר דרך על al derec basar, according to the manner of the flesh, i.e. naturally, according to the common process of nature.
By promise - Both Abraham and Sarah had passed that age in which the procreation of children was possible on natural principles. The birth, therefore, of Isaac was supernatural; it was the effect of an especial promise of God; and it was only on the ground of that promise that it was either credible or possible.
Verse 24 Was born after the flesh - Ishmael was born according to the course of nature, his parents being both of a proper age, so that there was nothing uncommon or supernatural in his birth: this is the proper meaning of the apostle's κατα σαρκα, after or according to the flesh, and answers to the Hebrew phrase, בשר דרך על al derec basar, according to the manner of the flesh, i.e. naturally, according to the common process of nature.
By promise - Both Abraham and Sarah had passed that age in which the procreation of children was possible on natural principles. The birth, therefore, of Isaac was supernatural; it was the effect of an especial promise of God; and it was only on the ground of that promise that it was either credible or possible.
Which things are an allegory - They are to be understood spiritually; more being intended in the account than meets the eye.Allegory, from αλλος, another, and αγορεω, or αγορευω, to speak, signifies a thing that is a representative of another, where the literal sense is the representative of a spiritual meaning; or, as the glossary expresses it, ἑτερως κατα μεταφρασιν νοουμενα, και ου κατα την αναγνωσιν·"where the thing is to be understood differently in the interpretation than it appears in the reading."
For these are the two covenants - These signify two different systems of religion; the one by Moses, the other by the Messiah.
The one from the Mount Sinai - On which the law was published; which was typified by Hagar, Abraham's bond maid.
Which gendereth to bondage - For as the bond maid or slave could only gender - bring forth her children, in a state of slavery, and subject also to become slaves, so all that are born and live under those Mosaic institutions are born and live in a state of bondage - a bondage to various rites and ceremonies; under the obligation to keep the whole law, yet, from its severity and their frailness, obliged to live in the habitual breach of it, and in consequence exposed to the curse which it pronounces.
Verse 25
For this Agar is Mount Sinai in Arabia - Το γαρ Αγαρ Σινα ορος εστιν εν τη Αραβια . This is the common reading; but it is read differently in some of the most respectable MSS., versions, and fathers; thus: το γαρ Σινα ορος εστιν εν τῃ Αραβια, for this Sinai is a mountain of Arabia; the word Αγαρ, Agar, being omitted.
Answereth to Jerusalem - Hagar, the bond maid, bringing forth children in a state of slavery, answereth to Jerusalem that now is, συστοιχει, points out, or, bears a similitude to, Jerusalem in her present state of subjection; which, with her children - her citizens, is not only in bondage to the Romans, but in a worse bondage to the law, to its oppressive ordinances, and to the heavy curse which it has pronounced against all those who do not keep them.
But Jerusalem which is above - The apostle still follows the Jewish allegory, showing not only how the story of Hagar and Sarah, Ishmael and Isaac, was allegorized, but pointing out also that even Jerusalem was the subject of allegory; for it was a maxim among the rabbins, that "whatsoever was in the earth, the same was also found in heaven for there is no matter, howsoever small, in this world, that has not something similar to it in the spiritual world." On this maxim, the Jews imagine that every earthly thing has its representative in heaven; and especially whatever concerns Jerusalem, the law, and its ordinances. Rab. Kimchi, speaking of Melchizedec, king of Salem, says: מעלה של ירושלם זו zu Yerushalem shel malah, "This is the Jerusalem that is from above." This phrase frequently occurs among these writers, as may be seen in Schoettgen, who has written an express dissertation upon the subject. Hor. Hebr., vol. i. page 1205.Verse 26
Is free, which is the mother of us all - There is a spiritual Jerusalem, of which this is the type; and this Jerusalem, in which the souls of all the righteous are, is free from all bondage and sin: or by this, probably, the kingdom of the Messiah was intended; and this certainly answers best to the apostle's meaning, as the subsequent verse shows. There is an earthly Jerusalem, but this earthly Jerusalem typifies a heavenly Jerusalem: the former, with all her citizens, is in bondage; the latter is a free city, and all her inhabitants are free also. And this Jerusalem is our mother; it signifies the Church of Christ, the metropolis of Christianity, or rather the state of liberty into which all true believers are brought. The word παντων, of all, is omitted by almost every MS. and version of antiquity and importance, and by the most eminent of the fathers who quote this place; it is undoubtedly spurious, and the text should be read thus: But Jerusalem, which is above, is free, which is our mother.
Verse 29
But as then he - Ishmael, who was born after the flesh - whose birth had nothing supernatural in it, but was according to the ordinary course of nature,Persecuted him - Isaac, who was born after the Spirit - who had a supernatural birth, according to the promise, and through the efficacy, of the Holy Spirit, giving effect to that promise - Sarah shall have a son,Genesis 17:16-21; Genesis 21:1, etc.Persecuted him; the persecution here referred to is that mentioned Genesis 21:9. It consisted in mocking his brother Isaac.
Even so it is now - So the Jews, in every place, persecute the Christians; and show thereby that they are rather of the posterity of Hagar than of Sarah.
What saith the Scripture? - (In Genesis 21:10. Cast out the bond woman and her son: and what does this imply in the present case? Why, that the present Jerusalem and her children shall be cast out of the favor of God, and shall not be heirs with the son of the free woman - shall not inherit the blessings promised to Abraham, because they believe not in the promised seed.
Full text at:
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/acc/galatians-4.html
E
rom 11: 28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they arebeloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
7
have you actually read the story of Abraham, his wife and his wife's servant?
now, I'm not going to be so polite, nor am I joking, with regards to the following quote from Mr Clark
do you go looking for people who hate Jews or do you have a subscription?
the quote was written by someone who is sowing hatred, lies and doing the job of the devil for him
I guess you think Hitler didn't happen either
your Adam Clark lived in the 18th C when lies of this nature abounded and were spread because Jews were persecuted as the ones who killed Christ
it seems you go out of your way to find the most distasteful and inaccurate renderings of scripture written with skewed outlooks on biblical events that you may believe supports your timeline
7
the following indicates Clark hatred of the Jews, again, not uncommon in the era in which he lived
Adam Clarke (1760 or 1762 - 1832) was a British Methodist theologian and Biblical scholar. He is chiefly remembered for writing a commentary on the Bible which took him 40 years to complete and which was a primary Methodist theological resource for two centuries.
Contained in 6 volumes, consisting of nearly 1,000 pages each, it was considered the most comprehensive commentary on the Bible ever prepared by one man. His commentary, particularly that on Revelation, identified the Catholic Church with the antichrist and bordered on antisemitic, as illustrated by the following quote:
As a theologian, Clarke reinforced the teachings of Methodist founder John Wesley. He taught that the Bible provides a complete interpretation of God's nature and will. He considered Scripture itself a miracle of God's grace that "takes away the veil of darkness and ignorance." With such an understanding, Clarke was first and foremost a Biblical theologian, often uneasy with purely systematic approaches to theology.
source
now it seems you forgot to mention that Clark was a Jew hater and extremely prejudiced in his biblical interpretation, so I helped you out
Adam Clarke (1760 or 1762 - 1832) was a British Methodist theologian and Biblical scholar. He is chiefly remembered for writing a commentary on the Bible which took him 40 years to complete and which was a primary Methodist theological resource for two centuries.
Contained in 6 volumes, consisting of nearly 1,000 pages each, it was considered the most comprehensive commentary on the Bible ever prepared by one man. His commentary, particularly that on Revelation, identified the Catholic Church with the antichrist and bordered on antisemitic, as illustrated by the following quote:
"The Jewish philosophy, such as is found the Cabala, Midrashim, and other works, deserves the character of vain deceit, in the fullest sense and meaning of the words. The inspired writers excepted, the Jews have ever been the most puerile, absurd, and ridiculous reasoners in the world. Even Rabbi Maimon or Maimonides, the most intelligent of them all, is often, in his master-piece, the Moreh Neochim, the teacher of the perplexed, most deplorably empty and vain." A.C. 1831 VI p. 486
As a theologian, Clarke reinforced the teachings of Methodist founder John Wesley. He taught that the Bible provides a complete interpretation of God's nature and will. He considered Scripture itself a miracle of God's grace that "takes away the veil of darkness and ignorance." With such an understanding, Clarke was first and foremost a Biblical theologian, often uneasy with purely systematic approaches to theology.
source
now it seems you forgot to mention that Clark was a Jew hater and extremely prejudiced in his biblical interpretation, so I helped you out