Giving money to church

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,957
8,067
113
#41
Does Christ rebuke the devourer if the Believer in Christ doesn't tithe?
Can a Christian test God in the New Testament? If so how?
Can a Christian live in the open windows of Heaven if they don't tithe?


Please post your scripture(s) to support your statement.
Fallacy: burden of proof reversal. You (attempt to) support your assertions from Scripture and I'll be happy to deflate them.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,957
8,067
113
#42
No, rational debates don't work like that.

Disguising a statement as a question and wording it in such a way that suggests anybody who answers in a certain manner is wrong, but then places the onus on them to prove that their position is valid is not how rational conversation is undertaken.

This is in part because there may be a statement in the Bible, but not its converse.

For example you asked "Can a Christian live in the open windows of heaven if they don't tithe?".
Hypothetically, the Bible may say that those who give to God will be blessed.
BUT, it doesn't say specifically that "if you don't give money to your local church, you will NOT be blessed".

So you're setting up a false dichotomy, not to mention attributing your own meaning to God's word.

If you would like to make a point, simply state it and backup your own claim.
Fantastic response! :)
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,957
8,067
113
#44
Ok so here's a point for discussion.

In my church it is said that tithing is still required and Malachi is often referred to for justification.

Any of you fine people wish to clarify God's word?
Malachi was written under the Mosaic covenant, no less than Leviticus. Chapter 2 opens with a rebuke of priests; it was written to Israel, not to the Church. The local church is not the "storehouse". The Law required Israel to tithe on their agricultural produce, not their monetary income. There isn't a single verse of Scripture written under the new covenant (in Christ's blood) that affirms the practice of tithing for believers. There also isn't a single verse of Scripture anywhere that affirms surrendering ten percent of one's monetary income to anyone or anything. Giving, even generously, is affirmed under the new covenant, but not 'tithing'.
 
Sep 3, 2016
5,562
479
83
#45
Most Christian are operating in the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law. This makes them a transgressor (Gal. 2:18).

Still searching for answers to the questions.
Does Christ rebuke the devourer if the Believer in Christ doesn't tithe?
Can a Christian test God in the New Testament? If so how?
Can a Christian live in the open windows of Heaven if they don't tithe?

Please post your scripture(s) to support your statement.
 
Sep 3, 2016
5,562
479
83
#46
Most Christian are operating in the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law. This makes them a transgressor (Gal. 2:18).

Still searching for answers to the questions.
Does Christ rebuke the devourer if the Believer in Christ doesn't tithe?
Can a Christian test God in the New Testament? If so how?
Can a Christian live in the open windows of Heaven if they don't tithe?


Please post your scripture(s) to support your statement.
Are Christians curse for not tithing? What does the bible say?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,957
8,067
113
#47
Most Christian are operating in the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law. This makes them a transgressor (Gal. 2:18).

Still searching for answers to the questions.
Does Christ rebuke the devourer if the Believer in Christ doesn't tithe?
Can a Christian test God in the New Testament? If so how?
Can a Christian live in the open windows of Heaven if they don't tithe?


Please post your scripture(s) to support your statement.
Still fallacious.

Post your assertions, with Scripture.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
12,453
5,460
113
#49
"I think you could be more generous with your money" and "so, when are YOU going to make a commitment to God and start tithing" has been said to me.
What you give as AN ACT OF WORSHIP is nobody s business.

MATTHEW 6

1
Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
 
Oct 28, 2018
85
25
18
#50
Most Christian are operating in the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law. This makes them a transgressor (Gal. 2:18).

Still searching for answers to the questions.
Does Christ rebuke the devourer if the Believer in Christ doesn't tithe?
Can a Christian test God in the New Testament? If so how?
Can a Christian live in the open windows of Heaven if they don't tithe?


Please post your scripture(s) to support your statement.
I notice that you've chosen to ignore the responses given to this, the first of which was the last post on the previous page and the second appears at the top of this page.

You've taken no notice, despite the fact you've been quoted, and simply asked again.

If you have a point to make then make it, then back up your own point(s) with scripture.
 
Oct 28, 2018
85
25
18
#51
Malachi was written under the Mosaic covenant, no less than Leviticus. Chapter 2 opens with a rebuke of priests; it was written to Israel, not to the Church. The local church is not the "storehouse". The Law required Israel to tithe on their agricultural produce, not their monetary income. There isn't a single verse of Scripture written under the new covenant (in Christ's blood) that affirms the practice of tithing for believers. There also isn't a single verse of Scripture anywhere that affirms surrendering ten percent of one's monetary income to anyone or anything. Giving, even generously, is affirmed under the new covenant, but not 'tithing'.
So why are these types of churches using this to justify their assertion that tithing is compulsory in these times?
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,054
2,192
113
#52
They have quarterly director's meetings, but no annual general meeting.

No financial report is published.
They do say that we have an open book policy, but does anybody actually ever look at it?

In reality nobody has any idea how much is being raised or spent, or on what.

So I don't feel any ownership (if you will) in the church or any form of shared responsibility.

It feels like a business that purports to be an open club.

As I said, I don't want this to sound negative, but I'm just reaching out in faith and asking for advice.

It's possible I'm just be tight, to be blunt.
Having said that, I've got my wits about me and when my spidey senses are tingling there is usually a very good reason.
First, I do believe you need to attend church. Hebrews 10:25 says we are to meet with other believers.

Second, I don’t believe tithing is for the NT church. Tithing was giving 10% to the priests and Levites in the OT. Even modern Jews do not tithe.

That being said, my husband does believe in tithing. So back when we got married, he was just out of college, and I had a few years to go. We had no money. Certainly not enough to make ends meet.

Yet there we were every month, throwing all this money in the offering basket monthly. But never because someone pressured us.

We never starved, always had a roof over our heads and the bills were paid. My husband got his dream job, and I finally started teaching. Except by then we had 4 kids, 3 boys who ate us out of house and home. And sports and music lessons.

We kept on tithing and we had more money. The kids grew up, and we had an expensive home, paid for, now living happily on our pensions. I think if we had not given cheerfully, we would not be where we are today, financially.

As far as no AGM and no open books, no voting by members on the budget? Find another church. Shades of Judas being the treasurer! As far as haranguing and harassing you for money? Do not walk, run to a different church. I’ve been attending Christian Churches since I was a small child. I have never heard of a church constantly begging for money. We are always under budget, but we went away from an offering time, to internet giving and a locked box for Cheques. We simply never hear about money, and that is the way it should be!

Try a non-charismatic non-Pentecostal church. You might find people who want your live for Christ instead of mammon.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,054
2,192
113
#53
Ok so here's a point for discussion.

In my church it is said that tithing is still required and Malachi is often referred to for justification.

Any of you fine people wish to clarify God's word?
You need to never go back to that church. To make a long story short, read this article. I believe it is correct. However, I still think we need to give, but not because we are being battered or pushed to do it.

The article is long, but it will be what you are looking for.

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/TheTitheisIllegal.html
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
3,953
786
113
#54
Ok so here's a point for discussion.

In my church it is said that tithing is still required and Malachi is often referred to for justification.

Any of you fine people wish to clarify God's word?
Here's my red flag....the church is approaching you that is not bibical. Now if you personally being convicted well that's another story.
My advice is ask them where their faith is. It's not tithing if it does not come from the heart, it serves no purpose other than paying the bills. Spiritual or others wise when you are pressured to give.
The Lord gives the increase.....look what Jesus did with the fish and chips. I also see a respector of persons here. So you have a business...so you should be able to give? Wrong message in my opinion. Might want to seek out other fellowship as I think the Lord is showing you something.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
6,085
6,650
113
#55
We are called to give, to help in all ways, share our resources. Besides If your church has value, why not chip in? There is so much need out there. Now with that said, it isn't that we have to or even that we should, I think we should want to. Be thankful that we get to. We all have our limited funds to contend with, I know I do. We are called to be wise and good stewards so why not apply balance here and give what you can, when you can? I do think any good church should be just like any good non profit organization, and have transparency so you can see that the church administration are too a good steward of their resources.
 

ComeLordJesus

Senior Member
Dec 26, 2017
372
39
28
#56
What!!!!!!!!!!!
I have gone to a Baptist church for 70 years and we have never used donation envelops.
There are many brances of Baptist churches. I know for a fact that Southern Baptist churches are notorious for their boxes of contribution envelopes.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,457
2,551
113
#57
My question is: If you got money, why not tithe? The OP said he doesnt have any to spare. Thats a different thing.

I believe God will bless a CHEERFUL giver. As Paul says.
 
Oct 28, 2018
85
25
18
#58
My question is: If you got money, why not tithe? The OP said he doesnt have any to spare. Thats a different thing.

I believe God will bless a CHEERFUL giver. As Paul says.
I don't have any spare because I'm running a new business, and cash (especially at this stage) is key.

There is an interesting side to this:

1. An internal contradiction arises in that while they teach that all we need for our salvation is faith and belief in Jesus, they also teach that we're REQUIRED to give money.

2. An external contradiction also arises in that other Christians (outside these types of churches) say that tithes are not REQUIRED, although from a pragmatic perspective the church does have bills to pay (different issue).

Well, somebody must be teaching God's word correctly while the other incorrectly, they can't both be teaching it correctly because they contradict each other and state the complete opposite.

Choosing to celebrate Jesus in a slightly more 'outward' way or more quiet way is fine, as long as you're sincerely celebrating in your hearts.
But teaching God's word in two different and contradictory ways! It's a wonder how this situation arises.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,957
8,067
113
#59
My question is: If you got money, why not tithe? The OP said he doesnt have any to spare. Thats a different thing.

I believe God will bless a CHEERFUL giver. As Paul says.
They aren't the same thing. Tithing, biblically, is giving one-tenth of war spoils to the priest of God Most High (none of which belonged to you beforehand), or giving one-tenth of your agricultural produce and every tenth animal that you own to the Levitical priest (good luck finding one today). It is giving an additional amount (not clear in Scripture) for the poor, the widows, the alien in your land, etc. It is also taking your "tithe" (agricultural produce) to the temple every so often and feasting on it there. All of this (except the war spoils) is required under the Law, not optional.

Transferring one-tenth of your monetary income to your local church is generous giving, not tithing. It is not required in Scripture... anywhere.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,957
8,067
113
#60
So why are these types of churches using this to justify their assertion that tithing is compulsory in these times?
Why? Tradition, not studying the matter for themselves, , ignorance, fear and worry, not trusting God for provision, pride, greed, corruption, etc.

I brought up the subject with a pastor once. His immediate reaction was essentially, "How will the bills get paid at the church building?" He had no concept of the distinction between tithing and giving.