God didn't think it robbery to be equal to Himself

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
The first to lie is a liar. To repeat a lie is lying. My point was that John MacArthur misrepresented what the book of Daniel actually predicted for the Roman period. Why can't you understand that?



Why don't you first acknowledge that there's nothing in the book of Daniel itself about some kind of abeyance and then a resurgence of the Roman Empire? I'm beginning to think that I'm just talking to dead wood.

William Miller made the false prophecies that made him a liar. And you would rather believe believe a proven liar, than Dr. John MacArthur. Does that make any sense to a rational mind?

William Miller was totally wrong about how to interpret Scripture, his prophecy about the Second Coming being in 1843 or 1844 proved that, and thus those errors begat more errors. Lies beget more lies. Lies do NOT beget Truth.

Open your eyes a see, PLEASE.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
That's hilarious because you're the one that produced a multiplied teachers' list in post #215. And as the Scriptures teach, the judgments of hypocrites are the judgments of self.
All from Mainline Christianity's highly respected Theologians, teaching exactly the same thing.

NONE from a proven false prophet, like the one you have apparently fallen for, hook-line-and sinker.
 
Jun 22, 2014
312
2
0
William Miller made the false prophecies that made him a liar. And you would rather believe believe a proven liar, than Dr. John MacArthur. Does that make any sense to a rational mind?
William Miller correctly interpreting Daniel 8:14 to mean that the world was scheduled to end after 2300 years from a certain date doesn't make him a false prophet any more than Jesus rightly interpreting the book of Daniel made Him a false prophet for saying, “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.” (Matthew 24:34).

And make no mistake. I applaud John MacArthur for preaching the second angel's message and for his contributions to the Millerite understanding of the Investigative Judgment.
 
Jun 22, 2014
312
2
0
All from Mainline Christianity's highly respected Theologians, teaching exactly the same thing.
I said that I respect John MacArthur for preaching the second angel's message and for his contributions to the Millerite understanding of the Investigative Judgment. That doesn't mean that he understands prophecy. And why should he? MacArthur isn't even using the grammatical-historical method to interpret prophecy.
 
Jun 22, 2014
312
2
0
All from Mainline Christianity's highly respected Theologians, teaching exactly the same thing.
John MacArthur is a sympathizer of the third demon's message. You are right in saying that mainline Christianity respects that.
 
Feb 7, 2013
1,276
21
0
A Commentary on Philippians 2:6

It seems that many Trinitarian translators have a difficulty understanding Philippians 2:6. Here are a few reasonable translations of this verse:

New English Bible (NEB)
For the divine nature was his from the first; yet he did not think to snatch at equality with God

New American Standard Bible
who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
Who, though existing in the demut of the mode of being of Elohim [His etzem or essential nature], nevertheless Moshiach did not regard being equal with G-d as a thing to be seized,

Young's Literal Translation
who, being in the form of God, thought not robbery to be equal to God,


The meaning of Philippians 2:6 depends on understanding two things: the phrase "the form of God" and the Greek word harpagmos (translated, robbery).

The word translated form is morphe (pronounced mor-fay'). It occurs only in three places in the New Testament and in each place is rendered form (Mark 16:12; Philippians 2:6-7). In Mark it is applied to the form which Jesus assumed after his resurrection, and in which he appeared to two of his disciples on his way to Emmaus. "After that he appeared in another form unto two of them." This "form" was so unlike his usual appearance, that they did not know him. The word properly means 1. the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision; 2. external appearance. The word form does not suggest that the appearance is the true revelation of the object itself. The form merely participates in the reality.

Millerites believe that Christ is a divine and infinite Being that has the form of God and has all the essential qualities of God and yet is not God. Here is the scholarly support:

The Septuagint makes use of the term morphe in such passages as Judges 8:18, where it describes Gideon's brothers as having the "form" of princes. And in Isaiah 44:13 where the craftsman is described as making idols in the "form" of a man. Clearly, an idol in the "form" of a man is not equally great as a man. True exegesis reaches this irrefutable conclusion: "The form of something" refers to appearance, likeness and similarity. It is never a reference to exact equality.

Now consider harpagmos. The basic idea of the word ([Greek: harpagmos] in Philp. 2:6) is that of seizing what one does not possess. —F. F. Bruce, Answers to Questions, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan Publishing House, 1972, p. 109.

Let's make use of both of these impressive summations and translate the essential meaning of Philippians 2:6.

"Christ, who was nearly God, did not think of grasping at equality with God."

If you think about it, every Trinitarian translation of this verse that attempts to be literal is empty of content. See KJV and NKJV. It is nonsense to translate Philippians 2:6 to mean God didn't think it robbery to be equal to Himself.
Please let the HOLY SPIRIT our TEACHER of the Holy Bible, correct and rewrite in love for that person, to stay awake and be alert, the deception in that title, posted in weakness blindness and ignorance;

" 'God', LORD JESUS CHRIST, to and for the Christian, HIS own body, who are 'abiding' to HIS words and love teachings of the New Covenant and are conformed to all of them members, being fruitful and also their fruits 'abiding' and are in togetherness, being the Grace and Truth given founded witnesses, the New Testament true worshipers, who worship the FATHER who is SPIRIT, in 'spirit' and 'truth', a living testimony to this world for the Kingdom of GOD, as salt and light for the world's Salvation, the only escape route from GOD's justified wrath and condemnation, didn't think it robbery to be equal to 'GOD', 'His' FATHER and 'HIS' will overall, who is the Holy Bible's 'Alpha' and 'Omega' , who LORD JESUS CHRIST is the only 'one', made as LORD of Lords and KING of Kings, Leader over Heaven and earth where every knee must bow and every tongue shall confess, JESUS CHRIST is LORD, who is still same yesterday, today and forever subjected to His FATHER, as ever a sinless second person of the Trinity and is the firstfruit of resurrection."

Please let this short sentence that came from the gift of the third person in the Trinity, the HOLY SPIRIT, to remind and stir up the memory of all believers, in all that you have been taught in the Holy Bible by the HOLY SPIRIT, who inspired them through lame men, to write them for our witnessing ever.

As it is written and spoken by our LORD in the Gospel;

"..................................................................., but if you speak against the HOLY SPIRIT, you will not be forgiven."
 
S

StoneThrower

Guest
John MacArthur is a sympathizer of the third demon's message. You are right in saying that mainline Christianity respects that.
“It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it.”
Maurice Switzer
 
Jun 22, 2014
312
2
0
Please let the HOLY SPIRIT our TEACHER of the Holy Bible, correct and rewrite in love for that person, to stay awake and be alert, the deception in that title, posted in weakness blindness and ignorance;
Are you speaking to me? I have no idea what you're talking about.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
I said that I respect John MacArthur for preaching the second angel's message and for his contributions to the Millerite understanding of the Investigative Judgment. That doesn't mean that he understands prophecy. And why should he? MacArthur isn't even using the grammatical-historical method to interpret prophecy.

The way we see it, you and those who still follow the false prophet William Miller, have been deceived and even give a different definition to prophecy, as well as a different definition to the term historical-grammatical method of interpretation.

Wikipedia
The historical-grammatical method is a Christian hermeneutical method that strives to discover the Biblical author's original intended meaning in the text. It is the primary method of interpretation for many conservative Protestant exegetes who reject the historical-critical method to various degrees from the complete rejection of historical criticism of some fundamentalist Protestants to the moderated acceptance of it . . .
We are what used to be called Fundamentalists, until in recent years when there was an explosion of false teachers latching onto and perverting the term Fundamentalists, by meaning something much different meaning than we ever did. So as to not be associated with those who pervert the meaning of the term Fundamentalists into the false teaching of easy believism, most of us now use the term Conservative Evangelicals.

The following will give you some idea about how we use the Term historical-grammatical method and it's primary characteristics:

. . .
The Bible is unique
The Apocrypha should not be included in the Canon
The text in the original language is definitive
The Bible is the final authority for the church (sola scriptura)
The literal meaning of a text is the primary meaning

. . .
Modern conservative Christian interpreters will almost always identify themselves as "Historical-Grammatical" interpreters -- despite the wide variety of modern Christian views on hermeneutics. Many conservative Christian interpreters are now finding value in exploring the extra-Biblical history surrounding the events of Scripture. For example, this might help the interpreter understand the context of a story, or literary references, or genre, etc.
http://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/422/what-is-the-difference-between-historical-grammatical-and-historical-criticism

So Dr. John MacArthur, Dallas Theological Seminary, Talbot Seminary, Biola University, Moody Bible Institute, and many, many more Conservative Evangelicals, ARE those who follow the: historical-grammatical method, a Christian hermeneutical method. You come along now, and obviously are meaning something totally different by that term.
 
Jun 22, 2014
312
2
0
The way we see it, you and those who still follow the false prophet William Miller, have been deceived and even give a different definition to prophecy, as well as a different definition to the term historical-grammatical method of interpretation.
I thought that my challenge was clear enough. Use the historical-grammatical method of interpretation to persuade me that Daniel was directed to understand something about some kind of abeyance and then a resurgence for the 4th world kingdom.
 

SolidGround

Senior Member
Jan 15, 2014
904
17
18
I thought that my challenge was clear enough. Use the historical-grammatical method of interpretation to persuade me that Daniel was directed to understand something about some kind of abeyance and then a resurgence for the 4th world kingdom.
The text itself does not speak of abeyance (can we use a different word please, like suspended or remission or dormancy, or postponed. I doubt even 2% of the American population know what the word abeyance means.)

The text definitely identifies Rome as being the final world power to take the mantle of Babylon. It also Identifies the man of sin as being of the final empire, and that the people of this empire would destroy Jerusalem.

I believe that God didn't lie to Daniel.

Your only hope is to say that this is fulfilled in 70ad,
but none of the math is right.
 
Last edited:

SolidGround

Senior Member
Jan 15, 2014
904
17
18
'weeks' don't mean 'years'. they either mean 'weeks'(7 days), or 'weeks of years'(7 years).
 
Jun 22, 2014
312
2
0
The text itself does not speak of abeyance.
Then MacArthur is misleading his audience and is not using the historical-grammatical method of interpretation.

The next challenge is truly fundamental for arriving at the true meaning of Daniel's prophecies. Why does Daniel 2 & 7 present the world coming to an end at the end of the divided fourth world kingdom but Daniel 11-12 presents the world coming to end at the later end of the divided Greek kingdom? Why does the vision of Daniel 8 end so abruptly?
 

SolidGround

Senior Member
Jan 15, 2014
904
17
18
Then MacArthur is misleading his audience and is not using the historical-grammatical method of interpretation.

The next challenge is truly fundamental for arriving at the true meaning of Daniel's prophecies. Why does Daniel 2 & 7 present the world coming to an end at the end of the divided fourth world kingdom but Daniel 11-12 presents the world coming to end at the later end of the divided Greek kingdom? Why does the vision of Daniel 8 end so abruptly?
go ahead and tell us
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
I thought that my challenge was clear enough. Use the historical-grammatical method of interpretation to persuade me that Daniel was directed to understand something about some kind of abeyance and then a resurgence for the 4th world kingdom.

You can read it for yourself, it is in Daniels interpretation of King Nebuchadnezzar's dream:

Daniel 2:12-49 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Because of this, the king became violently angry and gave orders to destroy all the wise men of Babylon.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] The decree was issued that the wise men were to be executed, and they searched for Daniel and his friends, to execute them.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Then Daniel responded with tact and discretion to Arioch, the commander of the king’s guard, who had gone out to execute the wise men of Babylon.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] He asked Arioch, the king’s officer, “Why is the decree from the king so harsh?” Then Arioch explained the situation to Daniel.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] So Daniel went and asked the king to give him some time, so that he could give the king the interpretation.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then Daniel went to his house and told his friends Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah about the matter,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] ⌊urging⌋ them to ask the God of heaven for mercy concerning this mystery, so Daniel and his friends would not be killed with the rest of Babylon’s wise men.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] The mystery was then revealed to Daniel in a vision at night, and Daniel praised the God of heaven
[SUP]20 [/SUP] and declared: May the name of God be praised forever and ever, for wisdom and power belong to Him.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] He changes the times and seasons; He removes kings and establishes kings. He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] He reveals the deep and hidden things; He knows what is in the darkness, and light dwells with Him.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] I offer thanks and praise to You, God of my fathers, because You have given me wisdom and power. And now You have let me know what we asked of You, for You have let us know the king’s mystery.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Therefore Daniel went to Arioch, whom the king had assigned to destroy the wise men of Babylon. He came and said to him, “Don’t kill the wise men of Babylon! Bring me before the king, and I will give him the interpretation.”
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Then Arioch quickly brought Daniel before the king and said to him, “I have found a man among the Judean exiles who can let the king know the interpretation.”
[SUP]26 [/SUP] The king said in reply to Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, “Are you able to tell me the dream I had and its interpretation?”
[SUP]27 [/SUP] Daniel answered the king: “No wise man, medium, diviner-priest, or astrologer is able to make known to the king the mystery he asked about.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] But there is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries, and He has let King Nebuchadnezzar know what will happen in the last days. Your dream and the visions ⌊that came into⌋ your mind ⌊as you lay⌋ in bed were these:
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Your Majesty, while you were in your bed, thoughts came ⌊to your mind⌋ about what will happen in the future. The revealer of mysteries has let you know what will happen.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] As for me, this mystery has been revealed to me, not because I have more wisdom than anyone living, but in order that the interpretation might be made known to the king, and that you may understand the thoughts of your mind.
[SUP]31 [/SUP] “My king, as you were watching, a colossal statue appeared. That statue, tall and dazzling, was standing in front of you, and its appearance was terrifying.
[SUP]32 [/SUP] The head of the statue was pure gold, its chest and arms were silver, its stomach and thighs were bronze,
[SUP]33 [/SUP] its legs were iron, and its feet were partly iron and partly fired clay
.
[SUP]34 [/SUP] As you were watching, a stone broke off without a hand touching it, struck the statue on its feet of iron and fired clay, and crushed them.
[SUP]35 [/SUP] Then the iron, the fired clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were shattered and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors. The wind carried them away, and not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.
[SUP]36 [/SUP] “This was the dream; now we will tell the king its interpretation.
[SUP]37 [/SUP] Your Majesty, you are king of kings. The God of heaven has given you sovereignty, power, strength, and glory.
[SUP]38 [/SUP] Wherever people live—or wild animals, or birds of the air—He has handed them over to you and made you ruler over them all. You are the head of gold.
[SUP]39 [/SUP] “After you, there will arise another kingdom, inferior to yours, and then another, a third kingdom, of bronze, which will rule the whole earth.
[SUP]40 [/SUP] A fourth kingdom will be as strong as iron; for iron crushes and shatters everything, and like iron that smashes, it will crush and smash all the others.

[SUP]41 [/SUP] You saw the feet and toes, partly of a potter’s fired clay and partly of iron—it will be a divided kingdom, though some of the strength of iron will be in it. You saw the iron mixed with clay,
[SUP]42 [/SUP] and that the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly fired clay—part of the kingdom will be strong, and part will be brittle.

[SUP]43 [/SUP] You saw the iron mixed with clay—the peoples will mix with one another but will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with fired clay.
[SUP]44 [/SUP] “In the days of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, and this kingdom will not be left to another people. It will crush all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, but will itself endure forever.
[SUP]45 [/SUP] You saw a stone break off from the mountain without a hand touching it, and it crushed the iron, bronze, fired clay, silver, and gold. The great God has told the king what will happen in the future. The dream is true, and its interpretation certain.”
[SUP]46 [/SUP] Then King Nebuchadnezzar fell down, paid homage to Daniel, and gave orders to present an offering and incense to him.
[SUP]47 [/SUP] The king said to Daniel, “Your God is indeed God of gods, Lord of kings, and a revealer of mysteries, since you were able to reveal this mystery.”
[SUP]48 [/SUP] Then the king promoted Daniel and gave him many generous gifts. He made him ruler over the entire province of Babylon and chief governor over all the wise men of Babylon.
[SUP]49 [/SUP] At Daniel’s request, the king appointed Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego to manage the province of Babylon. But Daniel remained at the king’s court.

NOTICE: The Statue represent Four Major World EMPIRES and an extension (or revival) of Fourth that is like the Fourth but weaker because it is still divided and the divisions bicker among themselves.

GOLD Head = THE BABYLONIAN EMPIRE - Who were FAMOUS for the Gold Smiths.

SILVER Upper Torso = The MEDO-PERSIAN EMPIRE- Who were FAMOUS for the Silver Smiths.

BRONZE Lower Torso and Waist = The EMPIRE of ALEXANDER THE GREAT - Was famous for their Bronze Shields and Swords.

IRON Legs = The ROMAN EMPIRE - Who were famous for being the first EMPIRE to exploit the Iron Age, thus their shields and swords were much stronger.

FEET Mixed with IRON and CLAY = A revival of the IRON EMPIRE that is NOT called a FIFTH KINGDOM, which is like the Roman Empire but weaker because it is a divided Kingdom that refuses to erase it's borders, thus the divisions bicker weakening the Empire. The European Union fits this picture prophecy perfectly.

STONE that smashes the final worldly Empire = none other than the Chief Corner Stone Himself, The Thousand Year Kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Why did you miss all that, because you were blinded by formulas, and hunting for hidden meanings taught by William Miller that do not exist. The TRUTH is as plain as the print on the page.
 
Jun 22, 2014
312
2
0
go ahead and tell us
Millerites have the answer and I will share it. However, before I do that, let's hear what total confusion and nonsense sounds like by hearing your answer first.
 

SolidGround

Senior Member
Jan 15, 2014
904
17
18
Then MacArthur is misleading his audience and is not using the historical-grammatical method of interpretation.

The next challenge is truly fundamental for arriving at the true meaning of Daniel's prophecies. Why does Daniel 2 & 7 present the world coming to an end at the end of the divided fourth world kingdom but Daniel 11-12 presents the world coming to end at the later end of the divided Greek kingdom? Why does the vision of Daniel 8 end so abruptly?
you are proposing that God has a series of possible times to end the world, but just never chose one.
He kept telling people His intention, but never followed through.

You are certainly trying to make God a liar, that Mr. Miller might be seen as honest.

I think it is best that I activate the ignore button and move on. There is no edification that you will accept.
Casting pearls and all that.