God didn't think it robbery to be equal to Himself

[LT]

LOL. Have not seen you in a while.

I've been lurking in the silly Sabbath forums for some reason. Good reading there.

Sry Esanta, I shouldn't have brought up your background. Ad hominem on my part.

 

[StoneThrower]

I really do not know why I waste my time with people like this. It is like arguing with a child. When one's fundamental ideas about who and what God is are flawed it is impossible for them to develop a biblically constructed theology.

It’s a balance; I used to think everyone in these Bible forums had an unquenchable thirst for truth and knowledge.
That they would come here to ask what they wouldn’t or couldn’t ask their pastor.
An unrealistic expectation on my part, leading to frustration.
I would beg, plead, waste hours looking up references, from someone that I thought they might esteem higher than my two cents, and then get criticized for quoting someone else, I used scripture to the cows came home, and I would get frustrated and sin.
Now, I throw it out there, if they seem like they are genuinely interested I will invest time in them, if someone wants Biblical counsel I will try to provide it. Sometimes I give a little poke in fun.
Years ago, I thought this was a ministry opportunity until God would provide a church to pastor. Once He started opening other doors for ministry, now this is just a place to kill time when bored.
You’re correct though when blinded to the truth by Satan, it’s a challenge.
Were called to proclaim it, not to convince.
The Bible study thread is a perfect example anything that requires some effort, either reading or consideration, or heaven forbid some study is too much work.

 

[oldhermit]

[TABLE="class: views-table cols-0, width: 100%"]
[TR="class: odd views-row-first, bgcolor: #EEEAEA"]
[TD="class: views-field views-field-field-concordance-reference"]Matthew 20:12[/TD]
[TD="class: views-field views-field-body"]saying, ‘These last worked but one hour, and you have made them equal (isous | ἴσους | acc pl masc) to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat.’[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: even"]
[TD="class: views-field views-field-field-concordance-reference"]Mark 14:56[/TD]
[TD="class: views-field views-field-body"]For many were giving false testimony against him, but their testimonies were not in (isai | ἴσαι | nom pl fem) agreement (isai | ἴσαι | nom pl fem).[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: odd, bgcolor: #EEEAEA"]
[TD="class: views-field views-field-field-concordance-reference"]Mark 14:59[/TD]
[TD="class: views-field views-field-body"]Yet not even about this was their testimony in agreement (isē | ἴση | nom sg fem).[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: even"]
[TD="class: views-field views-field-field-concordance-reference"]Luke 6:34[/TD]
[TD="class: views-field views-field-body"]And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners that they may receive in return (isa | ἴσα | acc pl neut).[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: odd, bgcolor: #EEEAEA"]
[TD="class: views-field views-field-field-concordance-reference"]John 5:18[/TD]
[TD="class: views-field views-field-body"]This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because he not only used to break the Sabbath, but he also was calling God his own Father, thus making himself equal (ison | ἴσον | acc sg masc) with God.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: even"]
[TD="class: views-field views-field-field-concordance-reference"]Acts 11:17[/TD]
[TD="class: views-field views-field-body"]If then God gave the same (isēn | ἴσην | acc sg fem) gift to them as he gave to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to stand in God’s way?”[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: odd, bgcolor: #EEEAEA"]
[TD="class: views-field views-field-field-concordance-reference"]Philippians 2:6[/TD]
[TD="class: views-field views-field-body"]who, although he was in the form of God, did not regard equality (isa | ἴσα | adverb) with God a thing to be grasped,[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: even views-row-last"]
[TD="class: views-field views-field-field-concordance-reference"]Revelation 21:16[/TD]
[TD="class: views-field views-field-body"]The city was laid out as a square, its length the same as its width. He measured the city with the measuring rod at twelve thousand stadia, its length, width, and height being equal (isa | ἴσα | nom pl neut).[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Strong's Concordance

isos: equal​

Original Word: ἴσος, η, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: isos
Phonetic Spelling: (ee'-sos)
Short Definition: equal, identical
Definition: equal, equivalent, identical.

 

[Esanta]

I've been lurking in the silly Sabbath forums for some reason. Good reading there.

Sry Esanta, I shouldn't have brought up your background. Ad hominem on my part.

You should also be more careful with your profile choices. Your picture is clearly of a man older than you, whose other profile picture on Bandmix shows him with a wedding ring, while your profile says you aren't married. He is also a 27 year old male, not 19 like your profile, and he's from Rhode Island, not New York like your profile says.

This guy has also been playing guitar for 10 years and written things from renaissance concertos to nu-metal.

In otherwords, either the guy in that picture isn't you, or someone's using your profile pic with a guitar in hand so that they can arrange gigs with other musicians. I think I know which one it is, LT.

See, I'd rather be Buddhist than be a Christian and lie about who I am.

string6philo - Musician in North Smithfield RI - BandMix.com

 

[Esanta]

Strong's Concordance

isos: equal​

Original Word: ἴσος, η, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: isos
Phonetic Spelling: (ee'-sos)
Short Definition: equal, identical
Definition: equal, equivalent, identical.

It's not ALWAYS an adjective.

 

[oldhermit]

It's not ALWAYS an adjective.

It is here.

 

[Esanta]

Strong's Concordance

isos: equal​

Original Word: ἴσος, η, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: isos
Phonetic Spelling: (ee'-sos)
Short Definition: equal, identical
Definition: equal, equivalent, identical.

Bibelehub (Strongs) says something different to BibleGateway (teknia) but BOTH of them agree that the sentence means Jesus didn't grasp for equality.

HUB::

[TABLE="class: maintext, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: top, width: 17%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Strong's[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 20%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Transliteration[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Greek[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]English[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Morphology[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3739 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hos[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὃς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]who,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]RelPro-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1722 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]en[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]in[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3444 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]morphē[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]μορφῇ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"][the] form[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-DFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2316 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Theou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Θεοῦ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of God[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]5225 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hyparchōn[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὑπάρχων[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]subsisting,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PPA-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3756 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ouch[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]οὐχ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]not[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adv[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]725 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]harpagmon[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἁρπαγμὸν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]something to be grasped[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-AMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2233 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hēgēsato[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἡγήσατο[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]esteemed it[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-AIM-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]to[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τὸ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-ANS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1510 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]einai[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]εἶναι[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]to be[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PNA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2470 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]isa[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἴσα[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]equal[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-ANP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2316 [e]



GATEWAY::

[TABLE="class: views-table cols-0, width: 100%"]
[TR="class: odd, bgcolor: #EEEAEA"]
[TD="class: views-field views-field-field-concordance-reference"]Philippians 2:6[/TD]
[TD="class: views-field views-field-body"]who, although he was in the form of God, did not regard equality (isa | ἴσα | adverb) with God a thing to be grasped,[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: even views-row-last"]
[TD="class: views-field views-field-field-concordance-reference"][/TD]
[TD="class: views-field views-field-body"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"][/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"][/TD]
[TD="class: eng"][/TD]
[TD="class: pos"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Shubee]

I would beg, plead, waste hours looking up references,

And let's no overlook the time you have wasted slandering me.

 

[oldhermit]

Well, lets just look at the possible ways this text can be interpreted. There are only three possibilities to the syntactical meaning of this Greek construction. Is Paul saying that Jesus did not consider being equal with God, or is Paul is saying that Jesus did not consider his equality something to be seized by some means, or is Paul is saying that Jesus did not consider his equality with God an act of robbery or seizure. The first two possibilities must be immediately dismissed because as Paul points out as I said earlier he already existed in the form of God. So, if he is God by intrinsic nature - μορφῇ, he is equal to God in everything this implies. It was this equality that was emptied out.

 

[Shubee]

[TABLE="class: views-table cols-0"]
[TR="class: odd, bgcolor: #EEEAEA"]
[TD="class: views-field views-field-field-concordance-reference"]Philippians 2:6
[/TD]
[TD="class: views-field views-field-body"]who, although he was in the form of God, did not regard equality (isa | ἴσα | adverb) with God a thing to be grasped,[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

And it's clear from my opening post that I accept this translation.

 

[Esanta]

Well, lets just look at the possible ways this text can be interpreted. There are only three possibilities to the syntactical meaning of this Greek construction. Is Paul saying that Jesus did not consider being equal with God, or is Paul is saying that Jesus did not consider his equality something to be seized by some means, or is Paul is saying that Jesus did not consider his equality with God an act of robbery or seizure. The first two possibilities must be immediately dismissed because as Paul points out as I said earlier he already existed in the form of God. So, if he is God by intrinsic nature - μορφῇ, he is equal to God in everything this implies. It was this equality that was emptied out.

Or perhaps what Paul meant was that Jesus was subsisting, by the form of God, an equally valid outlook on the text, and what he emtpied from himself was haughtiness and any thinking that he could be God, which would be validated easily by the obvious instances wherein Jesus calls God in the third person and the several moments wherein Jesus says things to distinguish himself from God, like 'Why do you call me good? None are good except for God'.

That translation makes much more sense, looking at the bible from an outside standpoint and being someone not indoctrinated into trinitarian viewpoints.

All I'm saying is that it is possible to read the bible and come to different conclusions than yours.

 

[oldhermit]

Bibelehub (Strongs) says something different to BibleGateway (teknia) but BOTH of them agree that the sentence means Jesus didn't grasp for equality.

HUB::

[TABLE="class: maintext, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: top, width: 17%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Strong's[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 20%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Transliteration[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Greek[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]English[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Morphology[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3739 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hos[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὃς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]who,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]RelPro-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1722 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]en[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]in[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3444 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]morphē[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]μορφῇ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"][the] form[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-DFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2316 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Theou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Θεοῦ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]of God[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]5225 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hyparchōn[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὑπάρχων[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]subsisting,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PPA-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3756 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ouch[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]οὐχ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]not[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adv[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]725 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]harpagmon[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἁρπαγμὸν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]something to be grasped[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-AMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2233 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hēgēsato[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἡγήσατο[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]esteemed it[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-AIM-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]to[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τὸ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-ANS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1510 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]einai[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]εἶναι[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]to be[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PNA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2470 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]isa[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἴσα[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]equal[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-ANP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2316 [e]



GATEWAY::

[TABLE="class: views-table cols-0, width: 100%"]
[TR="class: odd, bgcolor: #EEEAEA"]
[TD="class: views-field views-field-field-concordance-reference"]Philippians 2:6[/TD]
[TD="class: views-field views-field-body"]who, although he was in the form of God, did not regard equality (isa | ἴσα | adverb) with God a thing to be grasped,[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: even views-row-last"]
[TD="class: views-field views-field-field-concordance-reference"][/TD]
[TD="class: views-field views-field-body"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"][/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"][/TD]
[TD="class: eng"][/TD]
[TD="class: pos"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Englishman's Concordance also represents it as a adjective. I do not know why gateway is suggesting this is an adverb. As far as their suggestions on the interpretation of the text, this is nothing more that commentary offered by independent commentators whose views are not always shared by the host site.

 

[Shubee]

Well, lets just look at the possible ways this text can be interpreted. There are only three possibilities to the syntactical meaning of this Greek construction. Is Paul saying that Jesus did not consider being equal with God, or is Paul is saying that Jesus did not consider his equality something to be seized by some means, or is Paul is saying that Jesus did not consider his equality with God an act of robbery or seizure. The first two possibilities must be immediately dismissed because as Paul points out as I said earlier he already existed in the form of God.

And that shows your willful ignorance of how the Greek word morphe was used in the Septuagint and in Mark 16:12.

 

[oldhermit]

Or perhaps what Paul meant was that Jesus was subsisting, by the form of God, an equally valid outlook on the text, and what he emtpied from himself was haughtiness and any thinking that he could be God, which would be validated easily by the obvious instances wherein Jesus calls God in the third person and the several moments wherein Jesus says things to distinguish himself from God, like 'Why do you call me good? None are good except for God'.

That translation makes much more sense, looking at the bible from an outside standpoint and being someone not indoctrinated into trinitarian viewpoints.

All I'm saying is that it is possible to read the bible and come to different conclusions than yours.

There is no possible way to get that out of this grammatical construction. This is not what he said. If he had meant that he would have said that. Remember, the Holy Spirit is the author of this material, not Paul. You also have to remember that The Father himself referred to Jesus as God. The deity of Jesus the most profoundly attested to theological concepts in the New testament. Phil. 2 in only one of these texts.

 

[oldhermit]

And that shows your willful ignorance of how the Greek word morphe was used in the Septuagint and in Mark 16:12.

I really do not think there is much point in wasting any more of my time with you on this.

 

[Shubee]

I really do not think there is much point in wasting any more of my time with you on this.

You never had any words for the claims asserted about the Greek word morphe in the Septuagint and in Mark 16:12. Willful ignorance is your strength.

 

[crossnote]

Or perhaps what Paul meant was that Jesus was subsisting, by the form of God, an equally valid outlook on the text, and what he emtpied from himself was haughtiness and any thinking that he could be God, which would be validated easily by the obvious instances wherein Jesus calls God in the third person and the several moments wherein Jesus says things to distinguish himself from God, like 'Why do you call me good? None are good except for God'.

That translation makes much more sense, looking at the bible from an outside standpoint and being someone not indoctrinated into trinitarian viewpoints.

All I'm saying is that it is possible to read the bible and come to different conclusions than yours.

If this was the case he did a pretty poor job at emptying Himself at being haughty or grasping at being God since He clearly received worship from others...something only due to God.

 

[Shubee]

So He somehow eternally self-existed apart from God not being made?

No one said anything about the Son being apart from God.

 

[Shubee]

If this was the case he did a pretty poor job at emptying Himself at being haughty or grasping at being God since He clearly received worship from others...something only due to God.

No one said that Christ was being haughty or grasping.

 

[oldhermit]

You never had any words for the claims asserted about the Greek word morphe in the Septuagint and in Mark 16:12. Willful ignorance is your strength.

All you are doing is attempting to confine the full scope of the word μορφῇ into your limited definition. Yes, μορφῇ can mean form or shape but it also means intrinsic nature, that which makes a thing what it is. Jesus is God by virtue of his very nature. This is how the Holy Spirit describes him in John 1.