GOD IS FOR YOU, NOT AGAINST YOU

[Grace777x70]

I have been thinking some more on your post here and it made me go back to my Christian life..when I was first born again. I thought things would go smoothly because God was for us. Obviously..that was wrong thinking..

I believe the so-called wilderness experiences are really God's storehouses. They expose everything to the life of Christ in us.

Sometimes we have troubles - not because we have done something wrong -- but because we are doing something right. Satan comes immediately to steal the word that was sown in our hearts.

Sometimes God protects us from the trouble and sometimes He allows us to go through it.

Psalm 66:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] You made men ride over our heads; We went through fire and through water, Yet You brought us out into a place of abundance. Spoils of war do not come unless there has been a battle.

There is always an abundance in all things in knowing Him. He is our true treasure!

You have a beef with name it and claim Peter, not grace.

I am pretty sure that the folks that I line up with grace on this forum are "healers", "tongues", "God doesn't want you sick(physically)" and that ALL the gifts of the Spirit are active. Not me.

We have the word, His problem solving devices for our lives, and we go through sickness,problems,distress to GLORIFY Him. Not to get out of the problem.

Its not the problem that is the "problem".......It is how we solve the problem. And to wimp out and not figure out how to solve the problem and just pray for the end of it...........is failure in Gods plan.

We don't pray to get out the suffering, we use HIS solutions to get through the suffering.

 

[PeterJens]

You have a beef with name it and claim Peter, not grace.

I am pretty sure that the folks that I line up with grace on this forum are "healers", "tongues", "God doesn't want you sick(physically)" and that ALL the gifts of the Spirit are active. Not me.

We have the word, His problem solving devices for our lives, and we go through sickness,problems,distress to GLORIFY Him. Not to get out of the problem.

Its not the problem that is the "problem".......It is how we solve the problem. And to wimp out and not figure out how to solve the problem and just pray for the end of it...........is failure in Gods plan.

We don't pray to get out the suffering, we use HIS solutions to get through the suffering.

Thanks for putting me right.
The truth is I am beginning to realise there is a simple spiritual divide here between those who discern Gods word and those who do not.

What it comes down to is trust. Do you trust God.

A lot want a miracle answer to all lifes challenges but it does not come.

The obvious divide is righteousness and morality.

The mark of the lawless one, is lawlessness and a rejection of love.

So anyone who does not know love from the heart or this working in their lives, has not yet really met Jesus.
If Gods law bothers them, they have not walked in victory and overcoming.

The rest is just distractions and diversion, polluting Jesus with the world, which ofcourse goes down great with the enemy and those who want to be promised heaven with none of the realities.

 

[Utah]

The truth is I am beginning to realise there is a simple spiritual divide here between those who discern Gods word and those who do not.

Ahhh, those pesky people who don't discern God's Word.

 

[KennethC]

I agree with this statement you made.... 'christians should be healthy and wealthy, and if they are not they are living the devil's lie'... those preachers ARE LIARS."..

I don't know what context this is given in....context is always key......but sickness and poverty are curses for sure...check out Deut 28

I believe that God wants us to be healthy and to have an abundance in order to be a blessing to others...as per the scriptures I provided..


..and yes some of the Old Testament people did have much trouble on this earth..and in the same token there were those in the Old Testament that had great blessings...like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, David , Solomon and whole host of other people...

And yes..there are "Hucksters" out there too..as I said in one of my posts..like this one below..

This foolish poverty mentality being pawned off as being "spiritual" is just as bad as the hucksters "wanting to be rich "..there is no difference between them ..except one is more religious sounding...

You do realize that Deuteronomy 28 is speaking on the curses that come from disobedience to the LAW and His commandments ???

Under the New Covenant as believers in Christ we are redeemed from the curse of the LAW, therefore a believer living who is living in poverty is not being cursed !!!

Curses of the Law do not apply to believers !!!

 

[KennethC]

To say that people that are not healthy and wealthy are of the devil or living with him in some form or other is most definitely a wrong statement. I have said 3 times now that God wants us well and to have an abundance to be a blessing for others ..

....and people that say God has ceased the gifts of the Holy Spirit are liars as well. Do you agree with this statement?

Let me ask you a question...do you believe God make us sick?...that He wants us sick..for some reason..like to "teach" us things?

Thanks for your thoughts..

God does not make us sick, but He does allow it to take place in cases for learning and teaching !!!

How else do you think a person who has never been through the same exact issue and over came it through Christ can be a light to somebody who needs guidance going through it now ???

A person who has never experienced the exact same situation can not clearly know how to speak to and handle others who are now going through it, which is why we get a number of people speaking on things that they know nothing about.

They are only going by what they have heard from other sources but not actually experienced it, and in some of those cases those sources don't know what they are talking about either as they were done by another individual who has no personal experience.

The problem also comes from a place of properly discerning God's word, as just because the Word says "RICH" or "ABUNDANCE" does not necessarily mean money. Some to most of the time when speaking on believers it means love, mercy, forgiveness, and the rest of the fruit of the Holy Spirit !!!

 

[crossnote]

To say that people that are not healthy and wealthy are of the devil or living with him in some form or other is most definitely a wrong statement. I have said 3 times now that God wants us well and to have an abundance to be a blessing for others ..

....and people that say God has ceased the gifts of the Holy Spirit are liars as well. Do you agree with this statement?

Let me ask you a question...do you believe God make us sick?...that He wants us sick..for some reason..like to "teach" us things?

Thanks for your thoughts..

i don't believe God has ceased gifts. He has ceased the Offices of Apostles and Prophets insofar as there is no longer new revelation inspired by God.

God doesn't make us sick, but He allows sickness either through, natural decay, satanic agencies or our own stupid choices.
Sometimes it is for discipline.
Does God allow for the dissolution of the body? Of course, all have died no matter how much faith they had.

 

[KennethC]

i don't believe God has ceased gifts. He has ceased the Offices of Apostles and Prophets insofar as there is no longer new revelation inspired by God.

God doesn't make us sick, but He allows sickness either through, natural decay, satanic agencies or our own stupid choices.
Does God allow for the dissolution of the body? Of course, all have died no matter how much faith they had.

I agree with you except that of saying Apostles and Prophets have ceased !!!

The Word of God clearly says and shows from Acts to Revelation that prophecy still will be around tell the end, and as for being an apostle that simply means one sent from God to spread the good news........

This does not have to be one who has personally seen or walked with Jesus, as there are a number of people in the Bible named as apostles that came later under the guidance of Paul, Peter, and John.............

 

[Grace777x70]

true Kenneth.. ..abundance means abundance in all things...the lowest of which is money...but it does include it..

As far as healing goes...IMO..it is the will of the Father for all of us to be well physically...some don't get healed...the same why some people get saved and others don't.....some do get healed....our outer body is getting older and thank God we will get a new one some day..but sickness is not from God.

All who came to Jesus were healed..

You never see Jesus saying to those who came to Him:

1)..I can't heal you today as you have sin in your life....

2) No healing for you until you repent of hating your mother-in-law

3) No can do..no healing for you...you have a generational curse that needs to be taken care of first.

4) Definitely I will NOT heal you - as the Father wants to "teach" you something

All these above are man-made traditions and religious beliefs not grounded on the word of God. We cannot make our experience change what Jesus did in His life here on earth to reveal the heart and will of our good, loving Father.

Jesus did the will of the Father. God does not cause sickness to happen but He sure can prove His love and grace for us in every situation when we are attacked.


Jesus is perfect theology:

Jesus is the exact representation of the Father. Jesus said no one knows my Father. So, whatever understanding of God we get from the Old Covenant that doesn't line up with Jesus' manifestation of the Father will be inaccurate.

Hebrews 1:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

God does not make us sick, but He does allow it to take place in cases for learning and teaching !!!

How else do you think a person who has never been through the same exact issue and over came it through Christ can be a light to somebody who needs guidance going through it now ???

A person who has never experienced the exact same situation can not clearly know how to speak to and handle others who are now going through it, which is why we get a number of people speaking on things that they know nothing about.

They are only going by what they have heard from other sources but not actually experienced it, and in some of those cases those sources don't know what they are talking about either as they were done by another individual who has no personal experience.

The problem also comes from a place of properly discerning God's word, as just because the Word says "RICH" or "ABUNDANCE" does not necessarily mean money. Some to most of the time when speaking on believers it means love, mercy, forgiveness, and the rest of the fruit of the Holy Spirit !!!

 

[Grace777x70]

So, would you say that all preachers that say the gifts of the Holy Spirit are ceased are LIARS?

i don't believe God has ceased gifts. He has ceased the Offices of Apostles and Prophets insofar as there is no longer new revelation inspired by God.

God doesn't make us sick, but He allows sickness either through, natural decay, satanic agencies or our own stupid choices.
Sometimes it is for discipline.
Does God allow for the dissolution of the body? Of course, all have died no matter how much faith they had.

 

[JaumeJ]

Any would have to be either deceived or liars. God is always the same, always.

So, would you say that all preachers that say the gifts of the Holy Spirit are ceased are LIARS?

 

[KennethC]

true Kenneth.. ..abundance means abundance in all things...the lowest of which is money...but it does include it..

As far as healing goes...IMO..it is the will of the Father for all of us to be well physically...some don't get healed...the same why some people get saved and others don't.....some do get healed....our outer body is getting older and thank God we will get a new one some day..but sickness is not from God.

All who came to Jesus were healed..

You never see Jesus saying to those who came to Him:

1)..I can't heal you today as you have sin in your life....

2) No healing for you until you repent of hating your mother-in-law

3) No can do..no healing for you...you have a generational curse that needs to be taken care of first.

4) Definitely I will NOT heal you - as the Father wants to "teach" you something

All these above are man-made traditions and religious beliefs not grounded on the word of God. We cannot make our experience change what Jesus did in His life here on earth to reveal the heart and will of our good, loving Father.

Jesus did the will of the Father. God does not cause sickness to happen but He sure can prove His love and grace for us in every situation when we are attacked.


Jesus is perfect theology:

Jesus is the exact representation of the Father. Jesus said no one knows my Father. So, whatever understanding of God we get from the Old Covenant that doesn't line up with Jesus' manifestation of the Father will be inaccurate.

Hebrews 1:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Still a believer living in poverty is not cursed !!!............Do you agree ???


If you don't agree then you place the curse of the law on believers when it does not apply !!!

 

[Grace777x70]

They themselves are definitely not cursed........but poverty is a curse....not the person....just like sickness is a curse but not the person...

Jesus redeemed us from the curse of the law! Praise God.

Still a believer living in poverty is not cursed !!!............Do you agree ???


If you don't agree then you place the curse of the law on believers when it does not apply !!!

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is a question ...it seems that Paul was saying in Galatians that we can put ourselves back under the law by not relying on the grace of God instead.....if we do that..can those curses of the law come upon us..because we know none of us can keep the law...

What's your take on that?

Galatians 3:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM."

Still a believer living in poverty is not cursed !!!............Do you agree ???


If you don't agree then you place the curse of the law on believers when it does not apply !!!

 

[Yet]

Trusting God is good. But there's more to it. Obeying God. For years i trusted God, prayed to God, worked for God witnessing and winning souls and following the churches commands. I was miserable. Not blessed according to the word. But that was the whole problem. I was doing what man commanded and not what God commanded.
I was under man made laws and rules and traditions of men. Under law, under a curse. Under traditions of men that make the word of God of none effect.

So i add to 'trust', obedience to His word, not man's! Makes all the difference.

 

[JaumeJ]

2Co 8:9
For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Grace 777 said

but sickness is not from God.

God does not cause sickness to happen but He sure can prove His love and grace for us in every situation when we are attacked.

God created all things, even the serpent, evil and darkness, and even pestilence and disease as part of His wrath and righteous indignation. God sends forth the sword, plague, pestilence, famine, disease, and even evil angels as part of his righteous judgments and wrath upon a wicked, rebellious, and disobedient world.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

John 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

2 Corinthians 5:18
And all things are of God,

Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Colossians 1:17
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Hebrews 2:10
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

 

[tourist]

Grace 777 said

God created all things, even the serpent, evil and darkness, and even pestilence and disease as part of His wrath and righteous indignation. God sends forth the sword, plague, pestilence, famine, disease, and even evil angels as part of his righteous judgments and wrath upon a wicked, rebellious, and disobedient world.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

John 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

2 Corinthians 5:18
And all things are of God,

Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Colossians 1:17
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Hebrews 2:10
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

It may be God's will that He allows bad things happen to good people for our spiritual growth but it is not His desire that His children suffer.

 

[KennethC]

They themselves are definitely not cursed........but poverty is a curse....not the person....just like sickness is a curse but not the person...

Jesus redeemed us from the curse of the law! Praise God.

Instead of answering the question you try to worm your way around it by calling the poverty a curse but not the person !!!

The problem is with that understanding is you have that person that is a believer that lives in poverty still under that curse when it can not be. We are redeemed from the curse therefore poverty is not a curse !!!

As a matter of fact there are a couple of places where those believers living in poverty are called more blessed then others !!!

God's word says that because they go through some of the most trying and harder obstacles in their life yet still keep their faith in Him.

People who go through the hardest situations in life understand God's grace a lot better then those who have lived a comfortable financial lifestyle all their lives.

Unless you have hit rock bottom or live in an area where your life was on line because of your belief you would not understand fully how hard it is to contend and stand firm in the faith.

 

[Grace777x70]

As far as God "creating evil"..in Isa 45:7 ....as the KJV states it......there's more then meets the eye..but I do understand now where some views of God come from...

Darkness is the absence of light. The absence of light existed before God created light (Genesis 1:2). So, God didn’t really “create” darkness. But God forms the light and defines anything other than light as darkness. Likewise, the Lord doesn’t create evil, but establishes peace and calls anything else evil.

Vine’s Expository Dictionary says that the Hebrew word “RA’,” which was translated “evil” in this verse, “refers to that which is ‘bad’ or ‘evil,’ in a wide variety of applications.” Vine’s usage note on this word in this verse says,

“In Isaiah 45:7 Yahweh describes His actions by saying, ’...I make peace, and create evil [RA’]...’; moral ‘evil’ is not intended in this context, but rather the antithesis of SHALOM (‘peace; welfare; well-being’). The whole verse affirms that as absolute Sovereign, the Lord creates a universe governed by a moral order. Calamity and misfortune will surely ensue from the wickedness of ungodly men.”

Therefore, this verse is saying that God creates moral order and defines anything that doesn’t conform to that morality as evil. Only in that sense does He create evil. He determines or defines what evil is. This is not saying the Lord originates or promotes evil.

The Scriptures do say the Lord sent evil angels among people (Psalms 78:49). This is in reference to the death angel passing among the Egyptians and killing all the firstborn (Exodus 12:29-30).

This angel wasn’t evil in the sense that it was demonic, but it was evil in the sense that it brought evil or punishment upon the Egyptians. The American Heritage Dictionary says the word “evil” means not only “morally bad or wrong; wicked,” but it also means “harmful, injurious.” The death angel and other angels who brought the plagues on Egypt were “evil” in the sense that they were harmful to the Egyptians.

This is the way “the evil spirit from the LORD” (1 Samuel 16:14-16) was upon Saul. This wasn’t a demonic spirit but a godly angelic spirit that was sent for punishment upon Saul. It was God’s judgment upon Saul. Things like that will not happen to us as New Testament believers. All of our judgment has been placed on Jesus (see my note at John 12:32).

 

[KennethC]

2Co 8:9
For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

Yes and like I said before the usage of "rich" here does not mean financially !!!