God LIED!

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L

LPT

Guest
You can try and justify the awful title of this thread all you want, but it does not belong on a Christian forum. There are hundreds of non-believers and seekers checking things out and they must wonder what kind of a Christian would dare start a thread with this title. So the best thing to do in hiNdsight is ask the admins to correct the title to GOD CAN NEVER LIE!
Good point probably many things Christians don't realize others are watching who might be on the fencepost about somethings they might not even know yet. like God lied, Jesus did away with the law, predestined chosen to believe no free will needed and so on and on, yea I could see newbies running to the hills looking at all these questions in BF. lol
 

Sean66

Junior Member
Apr 1, 2016
4
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Interesting question, though I notice you haven’t and can’t share a scripture that says we can lose our salvation by God taking it away. This doctrine is not supported in any way by scripture, it is expressed by church denominations as a form of control.

There are many verses that say how Christians should be.and how they should act, though many were expressed to and for a specific individual though are used incorrectly as a global standard of what being a Christian is, ie preaching the word and converting people, Jesus told many to spread the word but he also told some, at least one I can think of, to just go home and not to preach.

The key is, our salvation will not be “taken away” from us, it was given to us unconditionally it is ours to keep or give up.

Satan turned away , left and fell from heaven.
adam and eve were punished and thrown out of Eden, but God left with them.
Moses failed God so often he never made it to the promised land but made it to heaven.
judas stole money and betrayed Jesus, but only lost his salvation when he could not accept Gods forgiveness and hanged himself.
samson was blessed with strength as long as his hair was NEVER cut, he sinned and broke nearly every law of God. Then he lost faith believing God left him when his hair was cut and believed God was with him again when it re-grew, even though it could never be as long as it should be if it was NEVER cut, God had never left him.
The bible is filled with people God chose who where and continued being damaged, weak and sinful and God never left them or took their salvation away.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
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The key is, our salvation will not be “taken away” from us, it was given to us unconditionally it is ours to keep or give up

Nope.

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand." (John 10:28-29)

No one includes yourself.

"For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8:38-39)


Are you a created being? Then not even you can do it.
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,099
41
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To those that truly are and he knows, but not the fakers,. if they are snatched back , it is because they were never in his hands in the first place.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Nope.
"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand." (John 10:28-29)

No one includes yourself.
"For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8:38-39)


Are you a created being? Then not even you can do it.
Shouldn't we listen to ALL of God's Words?

Matt. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

God never lies

Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

God never lies.

Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

There is only one religion on the planet who comes in Christ's name, and who claims He is truly the Messiah.

God never lies.

Jer. 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

God never lies

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24
He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.


God never lies.

Rom. 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

God never lies.

The Word which became Flesh has prepared for us everything we need to "Endure" this evil world. He warns over and over about false preachers who look good and sound reasonable, as the serpent did to Eve.

Jesus said we don't live by bread alone, but by EVERY Word which comes from God.

Is. 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God (The Word which became Flesh) shall stand for ever.

Matt. 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

God never lies.

Matt. 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

In closing, This broad path the MANY follow to destruction. Do you think the leaders of this path are declaring "Come follow us on the path to destruction"? Of course not, why would many follow that path?

I would say these leaders are declaring "Come follow us on the path to eternal life", and the people believe them over the Word's of God which last forever. We have also been given this knowledge should we care to listen.

Jer. 5:30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;
31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

I believe there is only one safe place to be in this evil time. Not in the word's of the "MANY" who come in Christ's Name, but in EVERY Word which proceeds from the mouth of God.

Because God never lies.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
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HBG. Pa. USA
To those that truly are and he knows, but not the fakers,. if they are snatched back , it is because they were never in his hands in the first place.
Paul through the Spirit did not think so.

1Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected.
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
246
63
I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him. (Ecclesiastes 3:14)
 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
410
124
43
Okay, now that I have your attention....

One of the main things that is troublesome to my soul, are those who believe one must strive to live the "Christian life" in order to remain saved. They believe that if you sin too much after your conversion, you can lose your salvation. Or they believe you can "give" your salvation back to God and walk away. Or, they'll say, if you don't live and act in a Christian "manner" it proves you were never saved at all.

I wanted to point out, that if one can lose their salvation, based on their performance in any way, then that makes God a liar.

Jesus said that He gives us eternal life, and that we shall never perish, and that no one can snatch us out of His, or the Father's hand. (John 3:16, 10: 28-29)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will perish, and we will indeed be snatched out of the hands of Jesus and the Father.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says that we have been sealed by the Holy Spirit which is a pledge guaranteeing our inheritance. (Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 5:5)

If we can lose our salvation, then there is no guarantee of our inheritance and the seal of the Holy Spirit is conditional.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says Jesus will never leave us or forsake us. (Hebrews 13:5)

If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus has left and forsaken us.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says Jesus always lives to make intercession for us. (Hebrews 7:25)

If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus will not always make intercession for us - only while we remain saved.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says we are sealed for the Day of Redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)

If we can lose our salvation, then we are not sealed until the Day of Redemption, but only up until we are lost again.

Verdict: God LIED.

Jesus said that He will lose none of us, but will raise us up on the last day. (John 6:39)

If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus will, in fact, lose some of us, and will not raise us up on the last day.

Verdict: God LIED.

Jesus said that believers will never come into judgment, and have passed from death into life. (John 5:24)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will go back under judgment, and pass from life back into death.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says our calling is irrevocable. (Roman 11:29)

If we can lose our salvation, then our calling is indeed revocable.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says salvation is a gift from God. (Ephesians 2:8)

If we can lose our salvation, then salvation is not a gift, but a wage to be earned.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says nothing in all creation (that includes us as created beings) can separate us from the love of God. (Romans 8:38-39)

If we can lose our salvation, then something can indeed separate us from the love of God.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says God will complete the good work that He began in us. (Philippians 1:6)

If we can lose our salvation, then God's good work will not be completed.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says we have been perfected for all time. (Hebrews 10:14)

If we can lose our salvation, then we certainly are not perfected for all time.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says our inheritance is imperishable, can never spoil, and is unfading, guarded by God's power. (1 Peter 1:3-5)

If we can lose our salvation, then our inheritance will perish, will spoil, and will fade.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says if we drink from the living water that is Christ, we will never be thirsty again. (John 4:14)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will indeed be thirsty again.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says God will sustain us to the end, guiltless in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Corinthians 1:8)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will not be sustained until the day of the Lord.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says that our debt to God has been canceled through Christ Jesus. (Colossians 2:13-14)

If we can lose our salvation, our debt has not truly been canceled.

Verdict: God LIED.

Jesus said that those who are His will never hunger nor thirst again. (John 6:35)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will again hunger and thirst.

Verdict: God LIED.



So, what is your verdict? Did God lie to us when He made all of those promises, or is our salvation indeed eternal and irrevocable?
So, you agree that God can't do all things, the only thing He can't do lie. So when He promises to save you, you know you're 100% guaranteed that He will finish the work He started.
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
418
83
I wonder if it is possible to tally how many threads that argue against eternal salvation being Biblical can be counted here? There are a huge number of pages in just the Bible discussion forum. It would take quite awhile to find them all I'm sure since they would appear under different subject titles.

These arguments concerning denial of eternal salvation and those who doubt it is a free gift, that instead they have to labor to help God save them, likely appear in every Christian forum on the net ad nausea.
Shall we hope to dissuade genuine posting people, not those who arrive in forums to stir conflict for their own thrill, that they should stop trying to help God save them? No. Think what they believe is on the line if they do.
Live the truth of the scripture and what Jesus died to seal as eternal truth and let those who don't go on their way. We'll never change their mind when they think God needs their help to save themselves. They think their eternal soul is on the line. They'll not budge from errant teachings that led them down that false path. And when they stand before God it is they alone that will answer for what they believed. We can't talk them out of what they're going to have to answer to God for.

For those that are of malicious intent pursuing that counter eternal salvation argument in any Christian forum they might join that is precisely what they want to accomplish among the Christians there.
For those that claim Christ and argue in that way they shall never be dissuaded to not believe they have to help God save them.


God saw them thousands of years ago. And his son insured there would be a record so we would not be surprised when we encountered them in any age. And all arguing with such people can accomplish in those who are in Christ is causing upset of the peace we're to live being we are in Christ. When God's word doesn't reach such people how can our own? Live peace. Let those that live falsely and refuse to learn truth live to regret it.


1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
 

Placid

Senior Member
Sep 27, 2016
316
36
28
Hi Budman,

Quote: "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand." (John 10:28-29)
No one includes yourself.

Response: ---

An interesting discussion, and the consensus is that ‘God does not lie,’ so we can look at some of the exceptions, which are perhaps conditional.

--- I agree that God does not go back on His promise of eternal life to believers, but as one poster quoted the verse from Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.”

When Jesus sent out the 12 disciples in Matthew 10:1 “He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease.” --- Then it names them all, and Matthew says “And Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.”

The sending out would have been about 30 AD, and the time of Matthew’s writing was the late 50’s or 60’s, so it was written after the fact.

--- If we accept that Judas was one of the twelve, it would indicate that he was a believer, and at that time had received the Holy Spirit’s power for that occasion.

When Judas asked the Pharisees, “What will you give me if I deliver Him unto you?” ---Did he not take himself out of God’s hand?

Paul said of his companion Demas in 2 Timothy 4:10 “Demas has forsaken me, having loved this present world, and has departed for Thessalonica.”

In Luke 9:61 And another also said, “Lord, I will follow You, but let me first go and bid them farewell who are at my house.”

62 But Jesus said to him, “No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”

Enough for now but I will add more later.
 
P

pjharrison

Guest
Okay, now that I have your attention....

One of the main things that is troublesome to my soul, are those who believe one must strive to live the "Christian life" in order to remain saved. They believe that if you sin too much after your conversion, you can lose your salvation. Or they believe you can "give" your salvation back to God and walk away. Or, they'll say, if you don't live and act in a Christian "manner" it proves you were never saved at all.

I wanted to point out, that if one can lose their salvation, based on their performance in any way, then that makes God a liar.

Jesus said that He gives us eternal life, and that we shall never perish, and that no one can snatch us out of His, or the Father's hand. (John 3:16, 10: 28-29)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will perish, and we will indeed be snatched out of the hands of Jesus and the Father.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says that we have been sealed by the Holy Spirit which is a pledge guaranteeing our inheritance. (Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 5:5)

If we can lose our salvation, then there is no guarantee of our inheritance and the seal of the Holy Spirit is conditional.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says Jesus will never leave us or forsake us. (Hebrews 13:5)

If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus has left and forsaken us.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says Jesus always lives to make intercession for us. (Hebrews 7:25)

If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus will not always make intercession for us - only while we remain saved.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says we are sealed for the Day of Redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)

If we can lose our salvation, then we are not sealed until the Day of Redemption, but only up until we are lost again.

Verdict: God LIED.

Jesus said that He will lose none of us, but will raise us up on the last day. (John 6:39)

If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus will, in fact, lose some of us, and will not raise us up on the last day.

Verdict: God LIED.

Jesus said that believers will never come into judgment, and have passed from death into life. (John 5:24)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will go back under judgment, and pass from life back into death.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says our calling is irrevocable. (Roman 11:29)

If we can lose our salvation, then our calling is indeed revocable.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says salvation is a gift from God. (Ephesians 2:8)

If we can lose our salvation, then salvation is not a gift, but a wage to be earned.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says nothing in all creation (that includes us as created beings) can separate us from the love of God. (Romans 8:38-39)

If we can lose our salvation, then something can indeed separate us from the love of God.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says God will complete the good work that He began in us. (Philippians 1:6)

If we can lose our salvation, then God's good work will not be completed.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says we have been perfected for all time. (Hebrews 10:14)

If we can lose our salvation, then we certainly are not perfected for all time.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says our inheritance is imperishable, can never spoil, and is unfading, guarded by God's power. (1 Peter 1:3-5)

If we can lose our salvation, then our inheritance will perish, will spoil, and will fade.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says if we drink from the living water that is Christ, we will never be thirsty again. (John 4:14)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will indeed be thirsty again.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says God will sustain us to the end, guiltless in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Corinthians 1:8)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will not be sustained until the day of the Lord.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says that our debt to God has been canceled through Christ Jesus. (Colossians 2:13-14)

If we can lose our salvation, our debt has not truly been canceled.

Verdict: God LIED.

Jesus said that those who are His will never hunger nor thirst again. (John 6:35)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will again hunger and thirst.

Verdict: God LIED.



So, what is your verdict? Did God lie to us when He made all of those promises, or is our salvation indeed eternal and irrevocable?
If you loose your salvation then you where never saved in the first place. If you are really saved and start to sin, God will let be beat up by the devil until you get it right.
 
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pjharrison

Guest
And what do you think that scripture is saying?
Well, it didn't say what I was trying to say. I was looking for the scripture when one of the brothers was sinning and one of the other brothers tried to get him to repent, and if he didn't he would be thrown out of the fellowship with them. Or is there such a scripture?
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
418
83
Well, it didn't say what I was trying to say. I was looking for the scripture when one of the brothers was sinning and one of the other brothers tried to get him to repent, and if he didn't he would be thrown out of the fellowship with them. Or is there such a scripture?
I'm reaching here to answer your question as to those scriptures.
Are you thinking of this one?
Matthew 18:15-17 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Or this one.
II Thessalonians 3:14-15 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

As I mentioned, I am reaching there.
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
418
83
You can try and justify the awful title of this thread all you want, but it does not belong on a Christian forum. There are hundreds of non-believers and seekers checking things out and they must wonder what kind of a Christian would dare start a thread with this title. So the best thing to do in hindsight is ask the admins to correct the title to GOD CAN NEVER LIE!
It is long past possible that a Moderator would correct the poor choice of title for this thread I guess. That's a real shame. For if someone is hoping to glean understanding and happen on that thread title in a search engine could they then stop searching. Thinking that declaration answers everything they were thinking to ask?
 
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pjharrison

Guest
I'm reaching here to answer your question as to those scriptures.
Are you thinking of this one?
Matthew 18:15-17 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Or this one.
II Thessalonians 3:14-15 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

As I mentioned, I am reaching there.
Yes the first one was the one I was looking for, but it said nothing about him being beat up by the devil. I added that because I'm a witness. It happened to me.
 
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pjharrison

Guest
You can bet I'm on the right track now. I don't read the bible daily now, but I read it over nd over again. I know what's in it, but have to refer to my concordance when looking for something. I'm not saying that I know everything, but I have good understanding.