"God loves everyone" - false

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Again, the question is "DOES GOD LOVE EVERYONE" and not about how we should treat each other.
Please define "GOD'S LOVE" so I know where you are coming from. Common definitions are the foundation of communication.
I feel like this is going to be one of those around in circles discussion..

Love
Ἀγαπᾶτε (Agapate)

Verb – Present Imperative Active – 2nd Person Plural
Strong’s Greek 25: To love, wish well to, take pleasure in, long for; denotes the love of reason, esteem. Perhaps from agan; to love.

If we love because God first Loved us then obviously we must love them with the Love of God.

If you have no answer that is fine or if you think we should not love our enemies that is fine too.

I do not end up in the quandary because I know that God does not only love believers.
 
May 3, 2020
33
42
18
God is love and to deny that is to deny God's very existence. But you can't cancel it out in lieu of His love. Wrath is just as much one of His attributes as love is. And there are vessels of wrath that will be shown His wrath.
I'm not trying to cancel anything out, my friend. If anything you are the one doing that. You are saying that God's justice cancels out His love when you imply that He must not love those in the lake of fire. I am saying that the two coexist. But even though they coexist, wrath is NOT just as much an attribute of God as His love is. You will not find a single verse in the Bible that says "God is wrath". It just isn't there.

God is HOLY. Yes. But holiness is not wrath. God's wrath is contingent on the existence of sin. If sin did not exist there would be no divine wrath, but God's love has existed from everlasting to everlasting because of the communion of love within the Trinity. God's love has always existed and is an essential attribute of God. So has His holiness. But NOT His wrath. That only enters the picture with sin.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
So the statement stands

God is demanding we do what God himself does not do.
My point exactly.... Thank you.

Seems some lofty theologians did not realize that they in fact contradict scripture by stating God hates those who we are commanded to love.
 
May 22, 2020
403
127
43
Verb – Present Imperative Active – 2nd Person Plural
Strong’s Greek 25: To love, wish well to, take pleasure in, long for; denotes the love of reason, esteem. Perhaps from agan; to love.
Thank you for a your definition. Further qualification is needed please. I defined love in a similar manner, but went further. I said God loves according to the degree of the loviliness of the object. So I ask:

Your definition ... Take pleasure in is a definition of God's Love:
Does God "take pleasure in" the wicked as much as he does those IN CHRIST ????

If your answer is NO. Would that not be good reason to say "God does not love everyone the same amount"?



If we love because God first Loved us then obviously we must love them with the Love of God.
Again, I don't want to conflate WHAT GOD DOES to mean that IS WHAT I SHOULD DO. I cannot LOVE God perfectly like He does me, I cannot judge perfectly like God does, I do not understand perfectly as God does. These are all examples of why one should not conflate our abilities, goals, etc. with that of God.
Lunch time
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Thank you for a your definition. Further qualification is needed please. I defined love in a similar manner, but went further. I said God loves according to the degree of the loviliness of the object. So I ask:

Your definition ... Take pleasure in is a definition of God's Love:
Does God "take pleasure in" the wicked as much as he does those IN CHRIST ????

If your answer is NO. Would that not be good reason to say "God does not love everyone the same amount"?



Again, I don't want to conflate WHAT GOD DOES to mean that IS WHAT I SHOULD DO. I cannot LOVE God perfectly like He does me, I cannot judge perfectly like God does, I do not understand perfectly as God does. These are all examples of why one should not conflate our abilities, goals, etc. with that of God.
Lunch time
So then the conclusion is.......

I am commanded to love my enemies, but God decides to Love based on the loveliness of the object . therefore my love must surpass the Love of God.
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
Again, the question is "DOES GOD LOVE EVERYONE" and not about how we should treat each other.
Please define "GOD'S LOVE" so I know where you are coming from. Common definitions are the foundation of communication.
Lol, when you ask for rational and reasonable discussion in context of defined terms you get callow ridicule. Immaturity reigns here. :sneaky:
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,761
29,128
113
I ask:

Your definition ... Take pleasure in is a definition of God's Love:
Does God "take pleasure in" the wicked as much as he does those IN CHRIST ????

If your answer is NO. Would that not be good reason to say "God does not love everyone the same amount"?
There are none good but God alone. We all fall short. God is no respecter of persons.

Therefore what it comes down to, really, is: who is in Christ?
That is what will matter in the final analysis.
For they alone will escape the second death.


In the meantime, can we know who is saved, and/or who will be saved?
We may believe we now know people who are saved, but we cannot know who may yet be saved.
God does know. Our love of God and others is to be a light to them who may yet respond.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Lol, when you ask for rational and reasonable discussion in context of defined terms you get callow ridicule. Immaturity reigns here. :sneaky:
Answer the question then. :)

If there is a rational, reasonable scriptural response then provide it... why let the question remain unanswered?
 
May 22, 2020
403
127
43
So then the conclusion is.......

I am commanded to love my enemies, but God decides to Love based on the loveliness of the object . therefore my love must surpass the Love of God.
NO. Not sure how you came to that conclusion.
....I gave reasons for not to determining the question GOD LOVES EVERYONE with HOW WE ARE TO LOVE OUR ENEMIES based on the fact that GOD NOT EQUAL US so you should not draw a parallel. We are talking about GOD's love, not God's commandments for us to love others.

In other words, you are comparing 'apples' and 'oranges'. Better to use scripture dealing directly with God's love, not ours. Give verses where GOD loves those that are going to hell (like God loved Judas Iscariot), now that would be of interest. Does God love Judas as much as John or Peter.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,761
29,128
113
Does God love Judas as much as John or Peter.
Jesus called Judas friend.

Matthew 26:50
Jesus replied, "Do what you came for, friend." Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him.

Jesus also requested forgiveness for those who crucified Him.

And Jesus was saying, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do." And they cast lots, dividing His garments.
Luke 23:34
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Again, the question is "DOES GOD LOVE EVERYONE" and not about how we should treat each other.
Please define "GOD'S LOVE" so I know where you are coming from. Common definitions are the foundation of communication.
So you are telling me God is commanding me to act in a manner that is contrary to how He is towards people, are there other instance of this? :unsure:
 

JohnRH

Junior Member
Mar 5, 2018
670
321
63
Could I ask my brothers and sisters to faithfully read the whole post and seek to understand, rather than have a knee jerk reaction to the thread title.
Sorry that I feel I have to say this, but the reaction I've got in other threads has been as a result of a reaction to the thread title from people who haven't sought to understand the thread content :)


There are many generalised expressions within our faith, that if you take the time to pick apart, just aren't true.
"God loves everyone" is one such false expression.
"Jesus died for everybody's sins" is another one, which is covered in another thread.

John 3:16 is always cited as support for "God loves everyone", but the verse does not say these words.
Below is the full passage that shows the context of the often referenced verse:


John 3:16:
"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten God. 19 And this is the condemnation that light is come into the world and men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved"


Notice that the verse does not say "God loves everyone".
It says that whosoever believeth should not perish but have eternal life.

Verse 15 always seems to be left out of the "God loves everyone" message because it is restrictive, and does not suit the purpose of those who push the "God loves everyone" message.

"For God so loved the world" refers to the fact that Jesus was speaking to a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews (John 16:1) who believed that only the Jews were saved to the exclusion of the rest of the world. John 3:18 and 19 clear up any question about the matter.

"God loves everyone" is straight from the mind of satan and the ministers that serve him. In essence it teaches that man can lead a sinful life, violate the commandments of God daily, not fear him and still go to heaven.


At this point there may be a few people who will equate having to keep the commandments of God with preaching a 'salvation by works' doctrine, but this is not the case. Those who say this do so because they have no intention of trying to keep God's commandments, and so they seek to accuse.

John 14:15
"If you love me, keep my commandments".

John 15:14
"You are my friends if you do what I command you".

Ecclesiastes 12:13
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man".


"God loves everyone" doctrine implies that man does not have to be accountable for his/her sins. It teaches that because "God loves everyone", that there is no need to fear him.

"God loves everyone", aka
"God loves and accepts everyone no matter what", "God's attributes are ONLY love and forgiveness for all", "God has no anger and is accepting of all behaviors".
False:

Rev 14:10
Jeremiah 25:15
Jude 14-15
Rev 14:11
Deut 32:22
Isaiah 30:33
2 Thes 1:6
2 Thes 1:8-9
Matthew 10:34-35
Matthew 7:21
Matthew 7:22-23
Matthew 12:30
Matthew 12:34-35
Matthew 12: 36-37
Matthew 15:8-9
Matthew 23:14
Matthew 23:15
Matthew 23:29-33
Mark 9:42-48
Mark 16:16
Luke 13:23-28
Luke 16:19-31
Luke 18:6-8
John 8:44
John 17:9
Rev 21:8
Isaiah 13:9
Isaiah 66:24
Psalms 7:11
Romans 1:18
1 Thes 5:3
2 Peter 2:9-10
Rev 6:10
Rev 6:15-17
Rev 20:12-15
Psalms 55:15


I could continue quoting scripture in order to reveal the true nature of God, which flies in the face of the "God loves everyone" doctrine, but I think 36 verses will suffice for now ;)
That sounds like a devilish excuse for not loving your neighbor; you'd be loving someone God doesn't.
 
May 22, 2020
403
127
43
If God demands we love our enemy
Then he to must love his enemy
Otherwise He is asking us to do what he hiself does not do

Your argument assumes that we must do whatever God does.

Logically, if I can show that we do something that God does not do, then you argument fails.

Does God worship himself as He has told us to do?
Does God fear himself as He has told us to do?
Did God sacrifice goats and sheep to Himself like he told us to do?
.... thus, in my opinion, your argument fails


Your turn to explain God's words of hatered, repulsion, wrath, loathing, etc. for those you suppose God loves.
Assuming your father loved you (I hope he did), did he ever use words like hatered, repulsion, wrath, loathing?? Surely not.

Deuteronomy 25:16 For everyone who does such things, everyone who acts unjustly [without personal integrity] is utterly repulsive to the Lord your God.

Leviticus 20:23 You shall not follow the statutes (laws, practices, customs) of the nation which I am driving out before you; for they did all these things, and therefore I have loathed them.
Deuteronomy 18:12 For everyone who does these things is utterly repulsive to the Lord; and because of these detestable practices the Lord your God is driving them out before you.
Psalm 2:4-5 Lord scoffs at them ...His displeasure ...
Psalm 11:5 The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, And His soul hates the [malevolent] one who loves violence
Proverbs 3:32 For the devious are repulsive to the Lord;
Proverbs 6:16–19;
Nahum 1:2 And He reserves wrath for His enemies.
Hosea 9:15 All their wickedness [says the Lord] is focused in Gilgal; Indeed, I came to hate them there!
 
May 22, 2020
403
127
43
Nothing is more absurd than to imagine that anyone beloved of God can eternally perish or shall ever experience His everlasting vengeance. It is the imagination of those that gently coos, “God hates the sin, but loves the sinner.” This statement is a profane lie! Should Noah have had a banner across the side of the ark comforting the drowning rebels with the words, “God hates the sin, but loves the sinner”? There is nothing in man justifying God’s love; there is nothing in God requiring He love man. It is a result of confused thinking to say, “God hates the sin, but loves the sinner.” Sin is not a separate thing that can be hated and punished by itself. Sin is the rebellious choice of a rational creature to despise His Creator and violate His commandments. God hates the actor and activity of this rebel creature. He will send persons to hell, not sins.
 
May 22, 2020
403
127
43
God hates sin and sinners because He is holy

God is holy, and His absolutely holy nature requires that He hate sin wherever He finds it.

The definition of true holiness and righteousness includes hatred for sin (Psalm 45:7; Hebrews 1:9).

Habakkuk 1:13 Your eyes are too pure to approve evil, And You cannot look favorably on wickedness.

Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is holy ... undefiled ... and separate from sinners (Hebrews 7:26).

God is so pure in His holiness that angelic sin was not accepted in His sight (Job 15:15-16).

Any man who truly fears and loves God will hate sin with Him (Proverbs 8:13; Psalm 45:7; Hebrews 1:9).

God’s holiness requires that He hate sin (Psalm 5:5; Psalm 73:20b; Proverbs 6:16-19; Zechariah 8:17).

God is holy, and this character trait of God cannot be neglected (Isaiah 6:1-7; Revelation 4:8).

There is no place in heaven for anything that defiles, for God and heaven are holy (Revelation 21:27).

Consider how the holiness and justice of God poured out wrath on Jesus for the elect’s sins.

If He forsook His Son and took pleasure in bruising Him ... because of our sins ... how much more shall He forsake, bruise, and hate those without faith, who continue in rabid rebellion?