"God loves everyone" - false
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Could I ask my brothers and sisters to faithfully read the whole post and seek to understand, rather than have a knee jerk reaction to the thread title.
Sorry that I feel I have to say this, but the reaction I've got in other threads has been as a result of a reaction to the thread title from people who haven't sought to understand the thread content
There are many generalised expressions within our faith, that if you take the time to pick apart, just aren't true.
"God loves everyone" is one such false expression.
"Jesus died for everybody's sins" is another one, which is covered in another thread.
John 3:16 is always cited as support for "God loves everyone", but the verse does not say these words.
Below is the full passage that shows the context of the often referenced verse:
John 3:16:
"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten God. 19 And this is the condemnation that light is come into the world and men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved"
Notice that the verse does not say "God loves everyone".
It says that whosoever believeth should not perish but have eternal life.
Verse 15 always seems to be left out of the "God loves everyone" message because it is restrictive, and does not suit the purpose of those who push the "God loves everyone" message.
"For God so loved the world" refers to the fact that Jesus was speaking to a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews (John 16:1) who believed that only the Jews were saved to the exclusion of the rest of the world. John 3:18 and 19 clear up any question about the matter.
"God loves everyone" is straight from the mind of satan and the ministers that serve him. In essence it teaches that man can lead a sinful life, violate the commandments of God daily, not fear him and still go to heaven.
At this point there may be a few people who will equate having to keep the commandments of God with preaching a 'salvation by works' doctrine, but this is not the case. Those who say this do so because they have no intention of trying to keep God's commandments, and so they seek to accuse.
John 14:15
"If you love me, keep my commandments".
John 15:14
"You are my friends if you do what I command you".
Ecclesiastes 12:13
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man".
"God loves everyone" doctrine implies that man does not have to be accountable for his/her sins. It teaches that because "God loves everyone", that there is no need to fear him.
"God loves everyone", aka
"God loves and accepts everyone no matter what", "God's attributes are ONLY love and forgiveness for all", "God has no anger and is accepting of all behaviors".
False:
Rev 14:10
Jeremiah 25:15
Jude 14-15
Rev 14:11
Deut 32:22
Isaiah 30:33
2 Thes 1:6
2 Thes 1:8-9
Matthew 10:34-35
Matthew 7:21
Matthew 7:22-23
Matthew 12:30
Matthew 12:34-35
Matthew 12: 36-37
Matthew 15:8-9
Matthew 23:14
Matthew 23:15
Matthew 23:29-33
Mark 9:42-48
Mark 16:16
Luke 13:23-28
Luke 16:19-31
Luke 18:6-8
John 8:44
John 17:9
Rev 21:8
Isaiah 13:9
Isaiah 66:24
Psalms 7:11
Romans 1:18
1 Thes 5:3
2 Peter 2:9-10
Rev 6:10
Rev 6:15-17
Rev 20:12-15
Psalms 55:15
I could continue quoting scripture in order to reveal the true nature of God, which flies in the face of the "God loves everyone" doctrine, but I think 36 verses will suffice for now
Sorry that I feel I have to say this, but the reaction I've got in other threads has been as a result of a reaction to the thread title from people who haven't sought to understand the thread content
There are many generalised expressions within our faith, that if you take the time to pick apart, just aren't true.
"God loves everyone" is one such false expression.
"Jesus died for everybody's sins" is another one, which is covered in another thread.
John 3:16 is always cited as support for "God loves everyone", but the verse does not say these words.
Below is the full passage that shows the context of the often referenced verse:
John 3:16:
"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten God. 19 And this is the condemnation that light is come into the world and men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved"
Notice that the verse does not say "God loves everyone".
It says that whosoever believeth should not perish but have eternal life.
Verse 15 always seems to be left out of the "God loves everyone" message because it is restrictive, and does not suit the purpose of those who push the "God loves everyone" message.
"For God so loved the world" refers to the fact that Jesus was speaking to a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews (John 16:1) who believed that only the Jews were saved to the exclusion of the rest of the world. John 3:18 and 19 clear up any question about the matter.
"God loves everyone" is straight from the mind of satan and the ministers that serve him. In essence it teaches that man can lead a sinful life, violate the commandments of God daily, not fear him and still go to heaven.
At this point there may be a few people who will equate having to keep the commandments of God with preaching a 'salvation by works' doctrine, but this is not the case. Those who say this do so because they have no intention of trying to keep God's commandments, and so they seek to accuse.
John 14:15
"If you love me, keep my commandments".
John 15:14
"You are my friends if you do what I command you".
Ecclesiastes 12:13
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man".
"God loves everyone" doctrine implies that man does not have to be accountable for his/her sins. It teaches that because "God loves everyone", that there is no need to fear him.
"God loves everyone", aka
"God loves and accepts everyone no matter what", "God's attributes are ONLY love and forgiveness for all", "God has no anger and is accepting of all behaviors".
False:
Rev 14:10
Jeremiah 25:15
Jude 14-15
Rev 14:11
Deut 32:22
Isaiah 30:33
2 Thes 1:6
2 Thes 1:8-9
Matthew 10:34-35
Matthew 7:21
Matthew 7:22-23
Matthew 12:30
Matthew 12:34-35
Matthew 12: 36-37
Matthew 15:8-9
Matthew 23:14
Matthew 23:15
Matthew 23:29-33
Mark 9:42-48
Mark 16:16
Luke 13:23-28
Luke 16:19-31
Luke 18:6-8
John 8:44
John 17:9
Rev 21:8
Isaiah 13:9
Isaiah 66:24
Psalms 7:11
Romans 1:18
1 Thes 5:3
2 Peter 2:9-10
Rev 6:10
Rev 6:15-17
Rev 20:12-15
Psalms 55:15
I could continue quoting scripture in order to reveal the true nature of God, which flies in the face of the "God loves everyone" doctrine, but I think 36 verses will suffice for now
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@Fastfredy0
I think you are conflating and missing the correct rendition of Isaiah:
Isa 53:10 (ESV) Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him;
he has put him to grief;
when his soul makesan offering for guilt,
he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days;
the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
it was the pleasure of the Lord is totally wrong - he had no pleasure, yet it was necessary.
And would contradict:
(Ezek 33:11 KJV) Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
I will stay friendly as long as you are ...but I will be upfront I will not be persuaded... so if you think that is the reason for the discussion it is not .. the sole reason is my desire to refute this doctrine.
I think you are conflating and missing the correct rendition of Isaiah:
Isa 53:10 (ESV) Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him;
he has put him to grief;
when his soul makesan offering for guilt,
he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days;
the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
it was the pleasure of the Lord is totally wrong - he had no pleasure, yet it was necessary.
And would contradict:
(Ezek 33:11 KJV) Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
I will stay friendly as long as you are ...but I will be upfront I will not be persuaded... so if you think that is the reason for the discussion it is not .. the sole reason is my desire to refute this doctrine.
Umm, pardon me, you have responded with a zero scripture in your above post which I have requested. That considered circular argument, nothings new but, to rehash things on post #119 as of below, this is what I posted and it's alright to ignore them.
Now, the bestowing of God's love is Jesus while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us, The scripture of truth says of "us" and who are these"us'? They are the sinners and who are these sinners? The Bible says 'all' are sinners which were subject to God's love though the provision of Christ.
Fact 1 Romans 3:23 King James Version (KJV) -Mankind is a sinner
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Fact 2 1 Timothy 1:15 King James Version (KJV)- Christ came to save sinners
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Fact 3 Romans 5:8 King James Version (KJV)- Christ died for the sinners
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Fact 4 Romans 3:26 King James Version (KJV)- The declaration of righteousness which believes in Jesus
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Now, the bestowing of God's love is Jesus while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us, The scripture of truth says of "us" and who are these"us'? They are the sinners and who are these sinners? The Bible says 'all' are sinners which were subject to God's love though the provision of Christ.
Fact 1 Romans 3:23 King James Version (KJV) -Mankind is a sinner
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Fact 2 1 Timothy 1:15 King James Version (KJV)- Christ came to save sinners
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Fact 3 Romans 5:8 King James Version (KJV)- Christ died for the sinners
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Fact 4 Romans 3:26 King James Version (KJV)- The declaration of righteousness which believes in Jesus
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
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This is a circular argument .... that is the conclusion is also found in the premise.
You did not address the multitude of verses that said God hates, is repulsived by, loathes, etc. those you state he loves.
Given that faith cometh by hearing ... Again, I ask, how does those that have not heard come to be saved. You contend that God loves them, yet the Almighty has not seen to it that they are given the means of faith. How is that? My answer is, God does not love them proving (IMO) that God does not love everyone.
You did not address the multitude of verses that said God hates, is repulsived by, loathes, etc. those you state he loves.
Given that faith cometh by hearing ... Again, I ask, how does those that have not heard come to be saved. You contend that God loves them, yet the Almighty has not seen to it that they are given the means of faith. How is that? My answer is, God does not love them proving (IMO) that God does not love everyone.
Maybe I am losing the context of the argument.
You are stating "he [God] wants us to be more loving that him."
You've lost me.
That being said, I did answer the question posed. You may not agree or accept it, but I did the courtesy of answering.
My question to your stands unanswered ... how can God say He Hates, loathes, is repulsed by those he loves?
How can a HOLY GOD (holy ... is light in which there is no darkness ... separate from evil) love those that are evil? Does He deny himself to love Satan's children? How can this be so?
“A love of holiness cannot be without a hatred of everything that is contrary to it. As God necessarily loves himself, so he must necessarily hate everything that is against himself: and as he loves himself for his own excellency and holiness, he must necessarily detest whatsoever is repugnant to his holiness, because of the evil of it. Since he is infinitely good, he cannot but love goodness Psalm 11:7 “The righteous Lord loveth righteousness,” as it is a resemblance to himself, and cannot but abhor unrighteousness Psalm 11:6A Upon the wicked (godless) He will rain coals of fire, as being most distant from him, and contrary to him. If he have any esteem for his own perfections, he must needs have an implacable aversion to all that is so repugnant to him, that would, if it were possible, destroy him, and is a point directed, not only against his glory, but against his life. If he did not hate it, he would hate himself: for since righteousness is his image, and sin would deface his image; if he did not love his image, and loathe what is against his image, he would loathe himself, he would be an enemy to his own nature. Nay, if it were possible for him to love it, it were possible for him not to be holy, it were possible then for him to deny himself, and will that he were no God, which is a palpable contradiction. Yet this necessity in God of hating sin, is not a brutish necessity, such as is in mere animals, that avoid, by a natural instinct, not of choice, what is prejudicial to them; but most free, as well as necessary, arising from an infinite knowledge of his own nature, and of the evil nature of sin, and the contrariety of it to his own excellency, and the order of his works.
You are stating "he [God] wants us to be more loving that him."
You've lost me.
That being said, I did answer the question posed. You may not agree or accept it, but I did the courtesy of answering.
My question to your stands unanswered ... how can God say He Hates, loathes, is repulsed by those he loves?
How can a HOLY GOD (holy ... is light in which there is no darkness ... separate from evil) love those that are evil? Does He deny himself to love Satan's children? How can this be so?
“A love of holiness cannot be without a hatred of everything that is contrary to it. As God necessarily loves himself, so he must necessarily hate everything that is against himself: and as he loves himself for his own excellency and holiness, he must necessarily detest whatsoever is repugnant to his holiness, because of the evil of it. Since he is infinitely good, he cannot but love goodness Psalm 11:7 “The righteous Lord loveth righteousness,” as it is a resemblance to himself, and cannot but abhor unrighteousness Psalm 11:6A Upon the wicked (godless) He will rain coals of fire, as being most distant from him, and contrary to him. If he have any esteem for his own perfections, he must needs have an implacable aversion to all that is so repugnant to him, that would, if it were possible, destroy him, and is a point directed, not only against his glory, but against his life. If he did not hate it, he would hate himself: for since righteousness is his image, and sin would deface his image; if he did not love his image, and loathe what is against his image, he would loathe himself, he would be an enemy to his own nature. Nay, if it were possible for him to love it, it were possible for him not to be holy, it were possible then for him to deny himself, and will that he were no God, which is a palpable contradiction. Yet this necessity in God of hating sin, is not a brutish necessity, such as is in mere animals, that avoid, by a natural instinct, not of choice, what is prejudicial to them; but most free, as well as necessary, arising from an infinite knowledge of his own nature, and of the evil nature of sin, and the contrariety of it to his own excellency, and the order of his works.
LOL... maybe so ... lol... you got more votes than me. lol You may have a bias as you agree with everything you said.
You owe me (I am taking liberties to use word OWE) answers to:
Question 1:
Your definition ... Take pleasure in is a definition of God's Love:
Does God "take pleasure in" the wicked as much as he does those IN CHRIST ????
If your answer is NO. Would that not be good reason to say "God does not love everyone the same amount"?
Question 2:
Colossians 3:14 Beyond all these things put on and wrap yourselves in [unselfish] love, which is the perfect bond of unity [for everything is bound together in agreement when each one seeks the best
Here is a biblical definition of love (perfect bond of unity). I understand how those "in christ" have a perfect bond of unity. How do you propose unbelievers (son of Satan) have a perfect bond of unity with God which is a definition of love?
My definition of Hate:
Hate is a disposition of disassociation, disfavor and judgment (darkness).
God is impassible. If he doth whatsoever he pleases, nothing can make him miserable, since misery consists in those things which happen against our will.
may be getting off topic ... don't want to go to far on a tangent
You owe me (I am taking liberties to use word OWE) answers to:
Question 1:
Your definition ... Take pleasure in is a definition of God's Love:
Does God "take pleasure in" the wicked as much as he does those IN CHRIST ????
If your answer is NO. Would that not be good reason to say "God does not love everyone the same amount"?
Question 2:
Colossians 3:14 Beyond all these things put on and wrap yourselves in [unselfish] love, which is the perfect bond of unity [for everything is bound together in agreement when each one seeks the best
Here is a biblical definition of love (perfect bond of unity). I understand how those "in christ" have a perfect bond of unity. How do you propose unbelievers (son of Satan) have a perfect bond of unity with God which is a definition of love?
My definition of Hate:
Hate is a disposition of disassociation, disfavor and judgment (darkness).
God is impassible. If he doth whatsoever he pleases, nothing can make him miserable, since misery consists in those things which happen against our will.
may be getting off topic ... don't want to go to far on a tangent
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No need to be nasty.
Your question has been asked and answered ... and answered again. You may not understand my answer, I may not understand your question. You think you have been clear, I think I have been clear. Time to move on.
1) How can a Holy God love that which is unholy? (i.e. son of Satan) Does He deny His own essence? He love that which He is repulsed by?
2) Why does God not ensure the gospel (faith cometh by hearing) is sent to those He loves?
3) Colossians 3:14 Beyond all these things put on and wrap yourselves in [unselfish] love, which is the perfect bond of unity [for everything is bound together in agreement when each one seeks the best
Here is a biblical definition of love (perfect bond of unity). I understand how those "in christ" have a perfect bond of unity. How do you propose unbelievers (son of Satan) have a perfect bond of unity with God which is a definition of love?
4) What is your explanation for so many verses telling us God hates, loathes, is repulsed by ... those you say He loves? Perhaps you are one of those that says God loves the sinners but not the sin. If so, why doesn't He send the sin to hell and save whatever is left over?
5) Given:
John 14:21 “He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father… 23 If a man loves Me, he will keep My words: and My Father will love him”
1 John 4:19 We love, because He first loved us.
Since:
1) God only loves the obedient only - verse 21 says “[they] shall be loved by the father” it indicates Christians (the elect) only
2) God only loves those that love Him - verse 21
3) Only those who obey God love God - verse 23 and they love because God loved them first (ver. 1 John 4:19)
We can conclude that some undefined measurement of obedience (love) must be present in all believers to be loved by God who only loves Christians.
6) Give examples of biblical person's name(s) we know went to hell that God said He loved
7) Give examples of biblical person's name(s) we know went to heaven that God said He hated or loathed or was repulsed by
Questions open to anyone who thinks GOD LOVES EVERYONE
Aside: I wish GOD loved everyone and everyone went to heaven. If there was a vote I would be in favor of this. But, by my definition, whatever God does is the best. So, I think it is best that God does not love everyone. Granted, I could be wrong and God does love everyone.
....If only I knew when I was wrong. There is wisdom in the console of others...perhaps I am wrong ... perhaps not.
Your question has been asked and answered ... and answered again. You may not understand my answer, I may not understand your question. You think you have been clear, I think I have been clear. Time to move on.
1) How can a Holy God love that which is unholy? (i.e. son of Satan) Does He deny His own essence? He love that which He is repulsed by?
2) Why does God not ensure the gospel (faith cometh by hearing) is sent to those He loves?
3) Colossians 3:14 Beyond all these things put on and wrap yourselves in [unselfish] love, which is the perfect bond of unity [for everything is bound together in agreement when each one seeks the best
Here is a biblical definition of love (perfect bond of unity). I understand how those "in christ" have a perfect bond of unity. How do you propose unbelievers (son of Satan) have a perfect bond of unity with God which is a definition of love?
4) What is your explanation for so many verses telling us God hates, loathes, is repulsed by ... those you say He loves? Perhaps you are one of those that says God loves the sinners but not the sin. If so, why doesn't He send the sin to hell and save whatever is left over?
5) Given:
John 14:21 “He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father… 23 If a man loves Me, he will keep My words: and My Father will love him”
1 John 4:19 We love, because He first loved us.
Since:
1) God only loves the obedient only - verse 21 says “[they] shall be loved by the father” it indicates Christians (the elect) only
2) God only loves those that love Him - verse 21
3) Only those who obey God love God - verse 23 and they love because God loved them first (ver. 1 John 4:19)
We can conclude that some undefined measurement of obedience (love) must be present in all believers to be loved by God who only loves Christians.
6) Give examples of biblical person's name(s) we know went to hell that God said He loved
7) Give examples of biblical person's name(s) we know went to heaven that God said He hated or loathed or was repulsed by
Questions open to anyone who thinks GOD LOVES EVERYONE
Aside: I wish GOD loved everyone and everyone went to heaven. If there was a vote I would be in favor of this. But, by my definition, whatever God does is the best. So, I think it is best that God does not love everyone. Granted, I could be wrong and God does love everyone.
....If only I knew when I was wrong. There is wisdom in the console of others...perhaps I am wrong ... perhaps not.
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I asked you the question, not to be nasty, but because I am worried
I never asked a question.
You stated you were confused about what I said. (I highlighted that for a reason, because it was what I was commenting on)
I mean, really? How can you be confused?
its like I said 1 plus 2 = 3
and your response is you are confused about what I mean.
I mean really?
I have not ready your answer. Because I want to know why you do not understand what I was saying.
If you do not understand, Then you have no basis to answer anything.
I never asked a question.
You stated you were confused about what I said. (I highlighted that for a reason, because it was what I was commenting on)
I mean, really? How can you be confused?
its like I said 1 plus 2 = 3
and your response is you are confused about what I mean.
I mean really?
I have not ready your answer. Because I want to know why you do not understand what I was saying.
If you do not understand, Then you have no basis to answer anything.