"God loves everyone" - false

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throughfaith

Well-known member
#581
Aug 4, 2020
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#581
awelight said:
This is what I meant in the other post about trying to be clever. Along with my other complaints about a reasonable conversation.

Look at what you said here:

////If a "dead in spirit sinner", is at the bottom of the pit of destruction and a lifeline is thrown to him, in the person of Jesus Christ, how can he grab it, if he is dead. A dead person cannot SEE are HEAR are physically react to the lifeline. Correct? Or do you have some other meaning for what a dead person can or cannot do?/////

The above is what I said. Anyone who reads this would see that this is an analogy. I defined it up front, with the statement, "dead in spirit sinner" For the rest of the analogy, the person has to be physical because the "lifeline" concept, in this case, is a physical line or rope. Obviously, Christ is not a line or a rope.

You then responded by saying:

The issue here is we are not physically dead . Thats were calvinism goes weird on us . Physically dead people ,don't hold jobs , pay taxes , get married ,have children, believe things , fly aeroplanes, build rockets , invent things , create medicines, become doctors, lawyers ,teachers , follow religions, believe in the Quran , the book of Mormon, ride bikes and go fishing .

The above response is foolish and unhelpful to anyone. Look at this ridiculous conclusion, you said: The issue here is we are not physically dead . Thats were calvinism goes weird on us.

When did Calvin or anybody else claim we were physically dead. No one is that childishly stupid, to claim dead people are walking around on this world, unless we have changed gears to the Zombie Apocalypse.

This is nothing more than an attempt to dodge the real issue.
Click to expand...
Not at all .
//If a "dead in spirit sinner", is at the bottom of the pit of destruction and a lifeline is thrown to him, in the person of Jesus Christ, how can he grab it, if he is dead. A dead person cannot SEE are HEAR are physically react to the lifeline. Correct? Or do you have some other meaning for what a dead person can or cannot do?/////// Jesus refers to ' us as having ' sickness ' , not 'deadness ' . When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Mark 2.17.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#582
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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113
#582
awelight said:
This is what I meant in the other post about trying to be clever. Along with my other complaints about a reasonable conversation.

Look at what you said here:

////If a "dead in spirit sinner", is at the bottom of the pit of destruction and a lifeline is thrown to him, in the person of Jesus Christ, how can he grab it, if he is dead. A dead person cannot SEE are HEAR are physically react to the lifeline. Correct? Or do you have some other meaning for what a dead person can or cannot do?/////

The above is what I said. Anyone who reads this would see that this is an analogy. I defined it up front, with the statement, "dead in spirit sinner" For the rest of the analogy, the person has to be physical because the "lifeline" concept, in this case, is a physical line or rope. Obviously, Christ is not a line or a rope.

You then responded by saying:

The issue here is we are not physically dead . Thats were calvinism goes weird on us . Physically dead people ,don't hold jobs , pay taxes , get married ,have children, believe things , fly aeroplanes, build rockets , invent things , create medicines, become doctors, lawyers ,teachers , follow religions, believe in the Quran , the book of Mormon, ride bikes and go fishing .

The above response is foolish and unhelpful to anyone. Look at this ridiculous conclusion, you said: The issue here is we are not physically dead . Thats were calvinism goes weird on us.

When did Calvin or anybody else claim we were physically dead. No one is that childishly stupid, to claim dead people are walking around on this world, unless we have changed gears to the Zombie Apocalypse.

This is nothing more than an attempt to dodge the real issue.
Click to expand...
I pointed out the analogy does not make sense . I do not agree with and believe it is the wrong analogy. You are claiming sinners are alike to being physically dead unable to respond to the Gospel when presented b because they cannot see or ' hear it And yet we see in the bible all through people responding to God and His revelation . Unless you have a verse that says man can not respond positively to the Gospel and believe it . And I don't mean implies ,I mean a verse or verses that SAY we cannot believe the gospel ?
 
Lion222

Lion222

Banned
#583
Jul 6, 2020
905
328
63
#583
throughfaith said:
Not at all .
//If a "dead in spirit sinner", is at the bottom of the pit of destruction and a lifeline is thrown to him, in the person of Jesus Christ, how can he grab it, if he is dead. A dead person cannot SEE are HEAR are physically react to the lifeline. Correct? Or do you have some other meaning for what a dead person can or cannot do?/////// Jesus refers to ' us as having ' sickness ' , not 'deadness ' . When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Mark 2.17.
Click to expand...
Come let us reason together, though your sins be a scarlet they can be made white as snow.
Yes they can reason and grab onto Christ Jesus.
Because they see the light and power of God and most run and hide.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#584
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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113
#584
throughfaith said:
I pointed out the analogy does not make sense . I do not agree with it and believe it is the wrong analogy. You are claiming sinners are alike to being physically dead unable to respond to the Gospel when presented b because they cannot see or ' hear it And yet we see in the bible all through people responding to God and His revelation . Unless you have a verse that says man can not respond positively to the Gospel and believe it . And I don't mean implies ,I mean a verse or verses that SAY we cannot believe the gospel ?
Click to expand...
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#585
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#585
awelight said:
This is what I meant in the other post about trying to be clever. Along with my other complaints about a reasonable conversation.

Look at what you said here:

////If a "dead in spirit sinner", is at the bottom of the pit of destruction and a lifeline is thrown to him, in the person of Jesus Christ, how can he grab it, if he is dead. A dead person cannot SEE are HEAR are physically react to the lifeline. Correct? Or do you have some other meaning for what a dead person can or cannot do?/////

The above is what I said. Anyone who reads this would see that this is an analogy. I defined it up front, with the statement, "dead in spirit sinner" For the rest of the analogy, the person has to be physical because the "lifeline" concept, in this case, is a physical line or rope. Obviously, Christ is not a line or a rope.

You then responded by saying:

The issue here is we are not physically dead . Thats were calvinism goes weird on us . Physically dead people ,don't hold jobs , pay taxes , get married ,have children, believe things , fly aeroplanes, build rockets , invent things , create medicines, become doctors, lawyers ,teachers , follow religions, believe in the Quran , the book of Mormon, ride bikes and go fishing .

The above response is foolish and unhelpful to anyone. Look at this ridiculous conclusion, you said: The issue here is we are not physically dead . Thats were calvinism goes weird on us.

When did Calvin or anybody else claim we were physically dead. No one is that childishly stupid, to claim dead people are walking around on this world, unless we have changed gears to the Zombie Apocalypse.

This is nothing more than an attempt to dodge the real issue.
Click to expand...
Your anology is unbiblical that's why . All through we see God expect s and commands us to respond . Because we are response able . We don't punish blind people for not seeing and obeying the ' Do not walk on the grass' sign .
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#586
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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113
#586
awelight said:
This is what I meant in the other post about trying to be clever. Along with my other complaints about a reasonable conversation.

Look at what you said here:

////If a "dead in spirit sinner", is at the bottom of the pit of destruction and a lifeline is thrown to him, in the person of Jesus Christ, how can he grab it, if he is dead. A dead person cannot SEE are HEAR are physically react to the lifeline. Correct? Or do you have some other meaning for what a dead person can or cannot do?/////

The above is what I said. Anyone who reads this would see that this is an analogy. I defined it up front, with the statement, "dead in spirit sinner" For the rest of the analogy, the person has to be physical because the "lifeline" concept, in this case, is a physical line or rope. Obviously, Christ is not a line or a rope.

You then responded by saying:

The issue here is we are not physically dead . Thats were calvinism goes weird on us . Physically dead people ,don't hold jobs , pay taxes , get married ,have children, believe things , fly aeroplanes, build rockets , invent things , create medicines, become doctors, lawyers ,teachers , follow religions, believe in the Quran , the book of Mormon, ride bikes and go fishing .

The above response is foolish and unhelpful to anyone. Look at this ridiculous conclusion, you said: The issue here is we are not physically dead . Thats were calvinism goes weird on us.

When did Calvin or anybody else claim we were physically dead. No one is that childishly stupid, to claim dead people are walking around on this world, unless we have changed gears to the Zombie Apocalypse.

This is nothing more than an attempt to dodge the real issue.[/QUOTE it's Calvinism that leads to these silly analogies . When they do try pull one from the bible they use Lazarus , a physical dead person , again .
Click to expand...
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#587
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#587
awelight said:
This is what I meant in the other post about trying to be clever. Along with my other complaints about a reasonable conversation.

Look at what you said here:

////If a "dead in spirit sinner", is at the bottom of the pit of destruction and a lifeline is thrown to him, in the person of Jesus Christ, how can he grab it, if he is dead. A dead person cannot SEE are HEAR are physically react to the lifeline. Correct? Or do you have some other meaning for what a dead person can or cannot do?/////

The above is what I said. Anyone who reads this would see that this is an analogy. I defined it up front, with the statement, "dead in spirit sinner" For the rest of the analogy, the person has to be physical because the "lifeline" concept, in this case, is a physical line or rope. Obviously, Christ is not a line or a rope.

You then responded by saying:

The issue here is we are not physically dead . Thats were calvinism goes weird on us . Physically dead people ,don't hold jobs , pay taxes , get married ,have children, believe things , fly aeroplanes, build rockets , invent things , create medicines, become doctors, lawyers ,teachers , follow religions, believe in the Quran , the book of Mormon, ride bikes and go fishing .

The above response is foolish and unhelpful to anyone. Look at this ridiculous conclusion, you said: The issue here is we are not physically dead . Thats were calvinism goes weird on us.

When did Calvin or anybody else claim we were physically dead. No one is that childishly stupid, to claim dead people are walking around on this world, unless we have changed gears to the Zombie Apocalypse.

This is nothing more than an attempt to dodge the real issue.
Click to expand...
it's Calvinism which attempts the bait and switch . Even when it goes looking into the bible for an example it goes to a physically dead person , Lazarus ?
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#589
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#589
throughfaith said:
Your anology is unbiblical that's why . All through we see God expect s and commands us to respond . Because we are response able . We don't punish blind people for not seeing and obeying the ' Do not walk on the grass' sign .
Click to expand...
The person that has not been quickened to a new spiritual life, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, is "spiritually dead." There is no way that a spiritually dead person can respond favorably to the spiritual gospel.
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

Banned
#590
May 19, 2020
3,050
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#590

Ephesians 2:1-
ForestGreenCook said:
The person that has not been quickened to a new spiritual life, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, is "spiritually dead." There is no way that a spiritually dead person can respond favorably to the spiritual gospel.
Click to expand...

Amen!
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#592
#592
throughfaith said:
it's Calvinism which attempts the bait and switch . Even when it goes looking into the bible for an example it goes to a physically dead person , Lazarus ?
Click to expand...
Total inability is so anti-biblical and concocted by Augustine to refute Pelagianism ... error refuting error.
Scripture makes it more than clear men are able to choose.

Theirs is a game of denial of correct understanding no matter how often it is shown to them.

Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve ; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

1Ki 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions ? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him . And the people answered him not a word.

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life , that both thou and thy seed may live:
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#593
Jul 8, 2018
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#593
EleventhHour said:
Total inability is so anti-biblical and concocted by Augustine to refute Pelagianism ... error refuting error.
Scripture makes it more than clear men are able to choose.

Theirs is a game of denial of correct understanding no matter how often it is shown to them.

Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve ; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

1Ki 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions ? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him . And the people answered him not a word.

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life , that both thou and thy seed may live:
Click to expand...
You had no choice in your natural birth. Neither do you have a choice in your spiritual birth, Eph 2. God granted mankind a free choice as to how mankind wants to live their lives as they sojourn here on earth, but mankind has no choice in being born spiritually. Being quickened to a new spiritual life is by God's sovereign grace, without the consent of mankind,
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#594
Jul 8, 2018
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#594
EleventhHour said:
Total inability is so anti-biblical and concocted by Augustine to refute Pelagianism ... error refuting error.
Scripture makes it more than clear men are able to choose.

Theirs is a game of denial of correct understanding no matter how often it is shown to them.

Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve ; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

1Ki 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions ? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him . And the people answered him not a word.

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life , that both thou and thy seed may live:
Click to expand...
Deu 30:19, The "life" under consideration is not eternal life, but that good and peaceful life that we can live, as we sojourn here on earth, if we strive to follow his commandments. Malachi 2:5-6.
 
awelight

awelight

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#595
Aug 10, 2020
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#595
Lion222 said:
Limited what?

Yes, you can fail to fully apply yourself but you will end up suffering loss in regards to your salvation and end up being saved as through fire.
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That Christ did not die for everyone but rather died for those whom the Father gave to Him. This Limited Atonement.
 
awelight

awelight

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#597
Aug 10, 2020
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#597
throughfaith said:
I pointed out the analogy does not make sense . I do not agree with and believe it is the wrong analogy. You are claiming sinners are alike to being physically dead unable to respond to the Gospel when presented b because they cannot see or ' hear it And yet we see in the bible all through people responding to God and His revelation . Unless you have a verse that says man can not respond positively to the Gospel and believe it . And I don't mean implies ,I mean a verse or verses that SAY we cannot believe the gospel ?
Click to expand...

Well many great Truths of Scripture are by means of implication. Even if I posted a single verse with these words verbatim, it would still mean very little unless it harmonized with all of Scripture.

The Bible is a spiritual book. Since it's author is SPIRIT and TRUTH. God must be approached in spirit because only spirit can worship that which is Spirit. While our spirit is presently encased in a body, a long with a soul, it is the believers spirit that is guided by the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, if a persons spirit died in the transgression, (For we know that Adam and Eve did not physically die when they transgressed), a dead spirit within the body, cannot understand are grasp spiritual things. He must be regenerated in the new birth. God putting into that person a new spirit. Then and only then, can he understand spiritual things and worship God in spirit and truth.

1Cor 2:13-14 Which things also we speak, not in words which man's wisdom is teaching, but which the Spirit is teaching; combining spiritual things with spiritual words. Now the natural man is not receiving the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 
awelight

awelight

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Aug 10, 2020
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#598
throughfaith said:
it's Calvinism which attempts the bait and switch . Even when it goes looking into the bible for an example it goes to a physically dead person , Lazarus ?
Click to expand...

The proper understanding of man falling into a depraved condition, is not to go so far as, to say that man in his fallen state is TOTALLY depraved. He is not. He is capable of many great things. He is only spiritually depraved because his spirit died in trespasses and sins.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#599
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#599
awelight said:
Well many great Truths of Scripture are by means of implication. Even if I posted a single verse with these words verbatim, it would still mean very little unless it harmonized with all of Scripture.

The Bible is a spiritual book. Since it's author is SPIRIT and TRUTH. God must be approached in spirit because only spirit can worship that which is Spirit. While our spirit is presently encased in a body, a long with a soul, it is the believers spirit that is guided by the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, if a persons spirit died in the transgression, (For we know that Adam and Eve did not physically die when they transgressed), a dead spirit within the body, cannot understand are grasp spiritual things. He must be regenerated in the new birth. God putting into that person a new spirit. Then and only then, can he understand spiritual things and worship God in spirit and truth.

1Cor 2:13-14 Which things also we speak, not in words which man's wisdom is teaching, but which the Spirit is teaching; combining spiritual things with spiritual words. Now the natural man is not receiving the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Click to expand...
What things ? Does it look like these believers ( same ones from chapter 2 ) in chapter 3 understand?
1¶And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, NEITHER YE NOW ARE YE ABLE
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#600
Aug 4, 2020
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#600
awelight said:
The proper understanding of man falling into a depraved condition, is not to go so far as, to say that man in his fallen state is TOTALLY depraved. He is not. He is capable of many great things. He is only spiritually depraved because his spirit died in trespasses and sins.
Click to expand...
If his spirit dead the body is dead .
 
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