God or Guns?

[iog]

Gun=death

Deuteronomy 30
See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

 

[sabaqtani7]

Are you going to offer your wife's and daughter's cheeks also?

Your wife and daughter are their own people, whose cheeks are their own to offer.

If your daughter gets in a fight and beats the crap out of someone, is that your sin?

Similarly, if your daughter turns her cheek, is that your forgiveness?

Both instances, those are your daughters.

Yes, if someone tried to hurt my girlfriend, I'd be very unwilling to let them. I'd probably fight. But that doesn't mean I'm right to do so.

There are many instances where father's offered daughters in the bible. One being when the angels where at Sodom and Gamorrah.

Perpetrating violence and following Jesus are contradictory terms.

 

[PopClick]

There's a thing swords are banned in the UK the same as knives, unless it is a small pocket knife. I think the Brits are far more sensible.

Is it doing any good? According to this article, the UK has more than four times as many violent crimes per capita than the US does.
Here's a link for you: The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S. | Mail Online

 

[iog]

Are you going to offer your wife's and daughter's cheeks also?

what did the Lord tell you to do?

maybe this will convice you

Ephesians 5

22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

not only will they turn the other cheek they will do as there husband and dad do as the dad will do as his master Jesus did, give his life!!!

 

[iog]

Your wife and daughter are their own people, whose cheeks are their own to offer.

If your daughter gets in a fight and beats the crap out of someone, is that your sin?

Similarly, if your daughter turns her cheek, is that your forgiveness?

Both instances, those are your daughters.

Yes, if someone tried to hurt my girlfriend, I'd be very unwilling to let them. I'd probably fight. But that doesn't mean I'm right to do so.

There are many instances where father's offered daughters in the bible. One being when the angels where at Sodom and Gamorrah.

Perpetrating violence and following Jesus are contradictory terms.

Acts 2:40
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

 

[sabaqtani7]

Is it doing any good? According to this article, the UK has more than four times as many violent crimes per capita than the US does.
Here's a link for you: The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S. | Mail Online

Reported violent crime goes up cause we have a bureaucracy that records everything. We need a crime certificate for a million different things in the UK. Also, what does the US count as violent crime?

Our census sees no increase in violent crime, yet police records show increase in reported crimes.

It's likely the UK's just seeing an increase in the reporting of violent crimes. Particularly rape crimes.

Yes, there have been far fewer deaths by knife and gun since the ban. I'm a personal witness to it. I live in Northern Ireland. It's been bad in the past. Same as London. And they've got a lot better.

Glasgow had the worst knife crime rate in Europe before the ban.

 

[iog]

Matthew 6:30
Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?


Matthew 8:26
And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.


Matthew 14:31
And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?


Matthew 16:8
Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?


Luke 12:28
If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?

 

[sabaqtani7]

Think about it. There is less fear of guns and knives, and particularly threats. So reported crime goes up as fear goes down.

I can safely say, the country is better off for having the two bans. I can't even remember the last time anyone was shot on the news.

 

[iog]

we have proof that without weapons man can live in peace.

before Adam and Eve sinned we had no death or sin

Revelation 12

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

after the sin we have death and weapons

 

[iog]

what are these artificers of brass and iron from the seed of CAIN?




Genesis 4

17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

18 And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech.

19 And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.

20 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.

21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.

22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah.

 

[iog]

Shalom everyone, iv read some of the comments on the abovementioned topic and would like to know what about guns that the Police use? or the Army? or should i rather ask... how does a Cop handle the "no gun" issue if they become believers??

Romans 13:1-7

King James Version (KJV)

13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

Matthew 8:8-10

King James Version (KJV)

8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

 

[superdave5221]

Romans 13:1-7

King James Version (KJV)

13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

Matthew 8:8-10

King James Version (KJV)

8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

Imagine such a man with faith! A killer by profession, and yet he had faith? Probably not enough to turn his cheek in battle and get run through with a sword. Oh well, not everyone is perfect.

 

[iog]

Neither was Jesus happy with Peter for using his sword and told him to put it away and I am sure he would say the same to us today with guns.


PS ... If it is any consolation, We're not happy by having to ensure our liberties and freedoms by use of a gun against Tyranny neither.
What do you propose instead?

Guns don't make freedom
Jesus make one free along his words
John 8:


31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

 

[iog]

Imagine such a man with faith! A killer by profession, and yet he had faith? Probably not enough to turn his cheek in battle and get run through with a sword. Oh well, not everyone is perfect.

he knew enough to beleive in Jesus the creator and giver of life

 

[BarlyGurl]

i am glad my son defended me, it was no dishonor, thanks buddy. It seems to me a child defending his or her parents is a good thing. Especially when they see someone is degrading their parent in a place the whole world can see. The forums question is GOD or guns. i just choose GOD that was my answer. Never did i say i'm for gun control, in fact i feel that is crazy. When i was a child i had guns and hunted. i was in the army. Something happened inside of me that i didn't want anything to do with guns anymore, stopped hunting became vegetarian, got rid of guns. Never did i say i was against people owning guns, was just stating i choose GOD.

Forgive me for offending anybody, that was not my intent i was only answering question. Love you All. Christ Jesus is Lord

Thank you for offering your position here regarding your PARENTING PHILOSOPHY... as it turns out we do not agree on it as I do not allow my child to speak for me when I am in the room and discourage speaking for me at all. There is indeed a child's cause to feel offended for there parent and thus desire to defend them... in my experience that usually happens behind the parents' back and it is unknown to the parent. I do see that in your family, it is apparently permitted that the father speaks for the the son and visa versa... so in addressig you I get the son's interpretation and response and when addressing your son I get yours... hmmm. I find indirect "shell game" dialogues lacking in authentic communication since you can't really know who you are talking to. I am not sure if YOU felt degraded or you just support your son's intepretation. Whatever that "something" was that happened to you... Jesus CHrist can forgive it, heal it and cleanse it... so that you can be raised,restored, renewed to the man God created you to be... instead of the one who has made certain restraining impositions o himself to "live" with whatever that "something" was... God can set you free from the shackles of that "something" and also clear-up the conflicts the "onlookers" are noticing about you. It is your option...I don't see anyone degrading anybody here and hope you can recieve the GOOD NEWS...I urge you... Choose Jesus.

 

[iog]

evil can't touch us unless the Lord allows it.

eveil cannot come into the land unless Jesus allows it

Jesus created evil

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

and it cannot come to you unless the Lord brings it

Amos 3:6
Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?

 

[superdave5221]

he knew enough to beleive in Jesus the creator and giver of life

And he was a killer! The subject of this thread that you have been defending is that guns used to kill, even in self defense, is exclusive from being a Christian. God or Guns. So there does not seem to be an exclusivity between defending oneself in battle, whether it be with combatants in war or criminals in your home, using the latest weapons, AND being a good Christian. You would agree? Or does God not want you to defend your family?

 

[iog]

And he was a killer! The subject of this thread that you have been defending is that guns used to kill, even in self defense, is exclusive from being a Christian. God or Guns. So there does not seem to be an exclusivity between defending oneself in battle, whether it be with combatants in war or criminals in your home, using the latest weapons, AND being a good Christian. You would agree? Or does God not want you to defend your family?

Matthew 8:8-10

King James Version (KJV)

8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

he is a man under authority,
he came to the Lord believing the Lord would heal his servants
he had faith in Jesus, this man under authority to defend and kill.


as far as the thread its a choice

personally i don't think Christians need a gun if they believe that the Lord is capable of protecting them and I have put enough verses to support this.

police officers and military this is their job they are under authority

the christian that is not under authority to carry a gun who do you need a gun for if you are a servant of God.

as the hedges were around Job they should be around us.

when the Lord remove the hedge around Job did he go get a weapon?

the Lord allowed his family to be wiped out and Job did not go get a weapon.

 

[iog]

Psalm 34:7
The angel of the Lord encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them.

this angel should be camped around all the servants of God family and property.

correct?

so who can do us any harm with the Lord's angel their protecting us?

 

[BarlyGurl]

I did notice the mistake of context welder made using "At the same time I do understand where God tells us if someone steals from you offer them your cloak as well"...

The verse does not say that and is not talking about a "theft or mugging"... the verse is about lawsuits... being SUED... so in truth this verse has no use in discussing the use of "deadly force".

... I do thank Welder for taking the time to use scripture for his pesentation... since this is bible discussion forum <smile>.