God or Guns?
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I believe God deals with people according to what they can understand.
Hence the seemingly violent God of the Old Testament, and the 'forgive your brothers' 'none come to the father except by me' Jesus and God of the New Testament.
God doesn't change. But people do.
But the Old writings are still valid. a lot of their imagery and idiom forms the concepts for the new testament. Laws fulfilled. Prophecies come true etc.
But no doubt, it's Jesus who says turn the other cheek. Abraham didn't, but Abraham came many, many years before us. And on the scale of who was on Earth when, Jesus' time came after Abraham's.
Hence the seemingly violent God of the Old Testament, and the 'forgive your brothers' 'none come to the father except by me' Jesus and God of the New Testament.
God doesn't change. But people do.
But the Old writings are still valid. a lot of their imagery and idiom forms the concepts for the new testament. Laws fulfilled. Prophecies come true etc.
But no doubt, it's Jesus who says turn the other cheek. Abraham didn't, but Abraham came many, many years before us. And on the scale of who was on Earth when, Jesus' time came after Abraham's.
You see if the Pharisees came across someone who had been robbed and beaten and was lying in the road they would have walked on by because it was against their law to work on the Sabbath. It isn't against God's law though and the annoying thing is that they had replaced God's law that already existed with something that was inferior. But that's humankind for you.
But Melchizedek commended Abraham for what he did. So, evidently your understanding of the Ten Commandments is in error. And, as I have pointed out, since God Himself gave people the right to kill as punishment for breaking the Law, it should be apparent to you by now that it IS God's Law I am talking about, and not the additions that the Pharisees created.
I don't know how much plainer I can make it. The Lord told Moses that all those who commit adultery should be killed.
The Lord told Moses. The Lord told Moses. The Lord told Moses.
This has nothing to do with the Pharisees.
I don't know how much plainer I can make it. The Lord told Moses that all those who commit adultery should be killed.
The Lord told Moses. The Lord told Moses. The Lord told Moses.
This has nothing to do with the Pharisees.
So are those who commit adultery today, to be killed? Moses was head of a tribe, a section, a part of a movement of faith. And God specifically gave Moses that command for his group of people.
Jesus is Lord over every man woman and child that was and ever will be. And He gave us the command to forgive.
Jesus is Lord over every man woman and child that was and ever will be. And He gave us the command to forgive.
Of course not. You are not getting the point.
You are claiming that there is no lawful way today for killing and that all killing is wrong in every situation.
I need only show that there have been lawful ways to kill in the past, (under God's Law), and I have disproved your point. I have accomplished that mission.
You see it is very simple. You try to muddy the waters to hide the deficiencies in your argument.
In order to make a case that we have no right to defend our families today by force, as Abraham did, then you have to show that the Moral Law is no longer in effect, OR that the Moral Law has changed. I look forward to your attemt at that.
You are claiming that there is no lawful way today for killing and that all killing is wrong in every situation.
I need only show that there have been lawful ways to kill in the past, (under God's Law), and I have disproved your point. I have accomplished that mission.
You see it is very simple. You try to muddy the waters to hide the deficiencies in your argument.
In order to make a case that we have no right to defend our families today by force, as Abraham did, then you have to show that the Moral Law is no longer in effect, OR that the Moral Law has changed. I look forward to your attemt at that.
Like I said. Are we talking about killing today, under Jesus commands? Or are we all members of Moses' party?
Times change. There is no lawful killing today. Because people get to God through Christ's commands and word, and what he did. 'None will get to the father except through me' He fulfilled it all.
'Forgive others'
Times change. There is no lawful killing today. Because people get to God through Christ's commands and word, and what he did. 'None will get to the father except through me' He fulfilled it all.
'Forgive others'
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Each idol had its own band of prophets, priests and soothsayers who spoke in the name of the Lord which was their false god. If you remember the Golden Calf was LORD and the Golden Calf is not God Almighty.
We need to be so careful when reading the Old Testament and just to be on the safe-side as Christians we need to follow the teaching of Jesus, that is what being a Christian is all about.
We need to be so careful when reading the Old Testament and just to be on the safe-side as Christians we need to follow the teaching of Jesus, that is what being a Christian is all about.
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I can only surmise that you have little understanding of the Law. Jesus never did away with the Law. He only made us aware of the spiritual nature of the Law. The Moral Law does not change.
Do you not understand that the Moral Law reflects the nature of God? To say that the Moral Law has changed is to say that God Himself has changed.
Romans 3: 28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29 Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
It is the righteousness of Jesus Christ, whose blood covers our guilt, that allows us to be found justified under the Law. God's moral Law does not change, and to believe so shows that you do not know the nature of God.
Please show Scripturally where the Moral Law has changed.
Do you not understand that the Moral Law reflects the nature of God? To say that the Moral Law has changed is to say that God Himself has changed.
Romans 3: 28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29 Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
It is the righteousness of Jesus Christ, whose blood covers our guilt, that allows us to be found justified under the Law. God's moral Law does not change, and to believe so shows that you do not know the nature of God.
Please show Scripturally where the Moral Law has changed.
Have you ever heard the saying 'eating swines flesh'. It means something like what the Pharisees did.
They used the law for the sake of its loopholes. As Paul said, it became a burden. Like a 'forbidden fruit'. And Jesus changed perspective, not content.
Eating swines flesh means using the law (particularly of eye for eye) to cover bad moral standing.
They used the law for the sake of its loopholes. As Paul said, it became a burden. Like a 'forbidden fruit'. And Jesus changed perspective, not content.
Eating swines flesh means using the law (particularly of eye for eye) to cover bad moral standing.
The Mosaic Law otherwise known as the Mitzvot is not the law given to Moses on Mount Sinai.
If you want to follow Jewish law I suggest you become a Jew and even then you wouldn't be allowed to follow it, things like stoning an adulteress have been banned and neither do they offer burnt offerings, unless you count burnt toast.
Anyway, I'm going to bed. Goodnight.
If you want to follow Jewish law I suggest you become a Jew and even then you wouldn't be allowed to follow it, things like stoning an adulteress have been banned and neither do they offer burnt offerings, unless you count burnt toast.
Anyway, I'm going to bed. Goodnight.
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Look, I can only debate using Scripture and reason. You like to debate with lot's of Scripture, but with little reason. When I see reason being cast aside, it is usually an indication that someone is so in love with an opinion that they cannot depart with it. God expects us to use both the Scriptures and reason.
There is an old adage. You can bring a person to reason, but you can't make him think.
If you are going to be unreasonable, I can only bid you adieu.
There is an old adage. You can bring a person to reason, but you can't make him think.
If you are going to be unreasonable, I can only bid you adieu.
Indeed. I don't particularly understand where I am being unreasonable, though I can hazard a guess at where you think I am.
Just ask yourself this question; if someone comes into your home, whether or not you are covered by the law in killing them, is there a more righteous alternative?
I have heard people on this forum bash many doctrines and ideals, never-mind religions, for their seemingly 'Anti-christ' inspired ways of thought. Particularly to do with the penalties, and eye for eye mentalities. Words like 'harsh', 'violent' and things of that nature are used.
Now, the bible is also privy (to other sections of society) to be tarred by the same accusations.
But in this I believe; that the Kingdom of God IS of peace, love and joy in the holy spirit.
It is a perspective. An attitude. an intent. A motive.
Compassion, forgiveness, meekness, gentleness, humility, restraint, patience, kindness, charity, hope. Things which bring peace. Things which show love. Things which cause joy.
I understand wholly, that you believe you are right by law in doing what is necessary to prevent harm to your family, even unto killing. But I ask you to think and question (as I myself have questioned within me), will such legality exist within the life that you have in eternity?
You will be in a state which serves you worthy of seeing God. As God is as He is.
And we are told that what is left after mortality, is immortality. That there is but, faith, love and hope. And the greatest of these is love. That is what God is. His will is that all be saved. That there is but peace, love and joy.
The author of Ecclesiastes knew this when he said 'all is pointless. Just a chasing after the wind'.
What you feel, this urge to even go to the lengths of killing. You will not feel no such bondage in heaven. So then what point does it serve on Earth?
If anything is outside love, peace, joy and faith, then it ceases to be prevalent when all knowledge ceases, and all tungues still and all creatures bow to God. So then what point is there in anything outside love, while we are on Earth?
What point is there in sin? What point is there in debauchery? Murder? Spite? Hatred?
All these things are flesh. And no flesh shall inherit the kingdom of God.
I am in love with God.
Just ask yourself this question; if someone comes into your home, whether or not you are covered by the law in killing them, is there a more righteous alternative?
I have heard people on this forum bash many doctrines and ideals, never-mind religions, for their seemingly 'Anti-christ' inspired ways of thought. Particularly to do with the penalties, and eye for eye mentalities. Words like 'harsh', 'violent' and things of that nature are used.
Now, the bible is also privy (to other sections of society) to be tarred by the same accusations.
But in this I believe; that the Kingdom of God IS of peace, love and joy in the holy spirit.
It is a perspective. An attitude. an intent. A motive.
Compassion, forgiveness, meekness, gentleness, humility, restraint, patience, kindness, charity, hope. Things which bring peace. Things which show love. Things which cause joy.
I understand wholly, that you believe you are right by law in doing what is necessary to prevent harm to your family, even unto killing. But I ask you to think and question (as I myself have questioned within me), will such legality exist within the life that you have in eternity?
You will be in a state which serves you worthy of seeing God. As God is as He is.
And we are told that what is left after mortality, is immortality. That there is but, faith, love and hope. And the greatest of these is love. That is what God is. His will is that all be saved. That there is but peace, love and joy.
The author of Ecclesiastes knew this when he said 'all is pointless. Just a chasing after the wind'.
What you feel, this urge to even go to the lengths of killing. You will not feel no such bondage in heaven. So then what point does it serve on Earth?
If anything is outside love, peace, joy and faith, then it ceases to be prevalent when all knowledge ceases, and all tungues still and all creatures bow to God. So then what point is there in anything outside love, while we are on Earth?
What point is there in sin? What point is there in debauchery? Murder? Spite? Hatred?
All these things are flesh. And no flesh shall inherit the kingdom of God.
I am in love with God.
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