God's Chosen People per Romans 11

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Awakened

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2016
127
7
18
as a nation, not as an induvidual.

two nations are in context. Not induvidual people who belong to those nations. Does this make sense?
I see the nation as being divided, the election and the hardened.* I'm still reading though. Lol

Romans 11:7/17
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree
 
Nov 19, 2016
502
23
0
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

God has not cast away His people Israel,and God said there is always Jews in the truth,even when the nation is going astray from the truth,and God is not going to blame the Jews in the future,for what they did in the past.

God said if the ordinances of heaven are still in effect,the sun,moon,and stars,then His covenant with Israel still stands,and in the future the kingdom will be restored to them.

The physical dominion on earth is to be Israel,but because as a nation they did not accept Jesus,the Gentiles have the physical control for now,but He is still with Israel the same as He has ever been,and God said He is going to bring the whole house of Jacob back to their land,all 12 tribes,in which they shall no more be 2 nations,but one,and after they have borne their shame,God will restore the kingdom to them,and the heathen shall know that God was with Israel all along,but they lost the physical dominion,but it was restored to them.

Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
Rom 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

Some Jews accept,some Jews reject,but it has no bearing on them for God's covenant is still with Israel the same as ever,but as a nation they reject so they lost the physical dominion for now.When the Bible says they were not all of Israel it means they did not accept the truth.

Jews accepting and rejecting is the same as Gentiles accepting and rejecting,and has no bearing on God dealing with Jews,and Israel,as it has no bearing on God dealing with the Gentiles,some accept,and some reject.The only bearing it has is a temporary loss of physical dominion where no enemy can harm,and no enemy can prosper against her.

Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Rom 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
Rom 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

The Gentiles should not boast against Israel as if they are better,for the truth is all is part of Israel if they are saved,whether Jew or Gentile,and when saved a Jew inward,and part of the commonwealth of Israel,and if any Gentile is saved,but do not continue in the goodness of God,they can be cut off the same as the Jews who were cut off.

Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

If Gentiles can be graffed in,how much more the Jews.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Israel is blinded in part because as a nation they do not accept Jesus as their God and Messiah,until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in,salvation is no longer available to the Gentiles,which will occur during the 7 years that God is giving the world their way to cause all who do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom,and brings Israel to the truth.

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

All Israel shall be saved,which the kingdom will be restored to them,and God said He will make a full end of all Gentile nations,but not make a full end of Israel,and God will work with them like He always has,and has not forsaken them,for the gifts if God are without repentance on God's part.

In the future there will not be two kingdoms,but one kingdom,and God said He will bring all 12 tribes to Israel from the nations,and some Jews accept,and some Jews reject,the same as anybody,and the only thing is Israel lost their physical dominion,and God gave the physical dominion to the Gentiles,which the Roman Empire has the dominion until God puts them down,but the kingdo will be given back to the Jews.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I see the nation as being divided, the election and the hardened.* I'm still reading though. Lol

Romans 11:7/17
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree

I see,

He is still talking to them as a nation (notice he does not discuss blind gentiles)

He also talks about them as a nation in other ways,

1. they have been blinded in part.
2. They are the natural branches
3. They as apposed to gentile Christians (he is separating Jewish believers called the remnant, from gentile believers)

he finally says that one day the blindness will be removed, That in that day ALL ISREAl (the nation) will be saved.

They (the nation) are hated because of the gospel. but they (the nation) are beloved for the promises.

because Gods gifts (given to the fathers, and why they still loved) still stand.


the gift given to the fathers was land, and promise of blessing if they obeyed, Not eternal life.

thats how I see it.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
What function has national Israel had in the affairs of God in the last 2000 years.... I'm not attacking lol. I consider you one of the good guys. :)
Non, they were "cut off"
 

Awakened

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2016
127
7
18
What function has national Israel had in the affairs of God in the last 2000 years.... I'm not attacking lol. I consider you one of the good guys. :)
Lol.. I'm not sure how to answer this one. I think they are still divided. Some are part of God's church and some are still hardened.
 

Awakened

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2016
127
7
18

I see,

He is still talking to them as a nation (notice he does not discuss blind gentiles)

He also talks about them as a nation in other ways,

1. they have been blinded in part.
2. They are the natural branches
3. They as apposed to gentile Christians (he is separating Jewish believers called the remnant, from gentile believers)

he finally says that one day the blindness will be removed, That in that day ALL ISREAl (the nation) will be saved.

They (the nation) are hated because of the gospel. but they (the nation) are beloved for the promises.

because Gods gifts (given to the fathers, and why they still loved) still stand.


the gift given to the fathers was land, and promise of blessing if they obeyed, Not eternal life.

thats how I see it.
Well, you both inspired me to read and learn more. Lol I think that's what I need to do. ❤
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Well, you both inspired me to read and learn more. Lol I think that's what I need to do. ❤
Keep an open mind. Even if you never agree with me,, As long as you show an open mind and not judge, all we ask. And I will do the same for you..
 
Dec 13, 2016
744
6
0
What function has national Israel had in the affairs of God in the last 2000 years.... I'm not attacking lol. I consider you one of the good guys. :)
Israel is the Church, so quite a lot
 
Dec 13, 2016
744
6
0
Spiritual Israel is THE Israel.

Physical Israel is NOW (post Old Covenant) a shadow.

Spiritual Israel is the Body that casts the shadow.

A shadow without a body is a ghost.

If the ghost reenters the body, it will come back to life.

(I just made that up - maybe a bit too much poetic licence)
 
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
236
63
Thats your interpretation.

But it is not true.

but hey, if you want to believe that, feel free.


again,

God cast away THE NATION of Isreal as his representatives on earth.

The remnant is not representing ISRAEL It is part of the CHURCH,


if you want to think otherwise, feel free that is your right.
This reeks of hyper-dispensationalism.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
Romans 11:7 KJV
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

What was Israel seeking for?
What had the ELECT obtained?
Who are the rest?
 
Dec 13, 2016
744
6
0
Salvation through the Messiah

Salvation through the Messiah

Physical Israel who were not: the Church / spiritual / children of Faith / sons of Abraham
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
Salvation through the Messiah

Salvation through the Messiah

Physical Israel who were not: the Church / spiritual / children of Faith / sons of Abraham
Why is the elect separate from Israel in that verse?
 
Dec 13, 2016
744
6
0
The Jews (Paul here terms them Israel) have not obtained what they were searching for; those Jews saved by grace which we call the Church or "The Elect" have obtained it, but the rest of the Jews have not.
 
Mar 23, 2014
702
4
0
Because not all Israel is Israel.
Biblically speaking,"Israel" was a person; not a place who by the way was remamed "Israel" from whom;;what was his name?;
as in his born name

:)-
 
Last edited:
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
Romans 11:8-10 KJV
(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
[9] And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: [10] Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

As far back as David Israel has had a spirit of slumber and they're blind and they can't hear even into the time of Paul. God made their table a trap and a stumbling block unto THEMSELVES. And their eyes were darkened so that they could not see.

Agree with this Spurge? Anything to add?