Gods will vs mans free will

[Lafftur]

But what happens in the real world when we run into people who are incompetent to make choices on their own? Don't family members or close friends usually step up to help such helpless people out of their unenviable situation? And when such people do help, are they not manifesting love with their compassionate choice? Isn't it loving to help those who are incapable of making right, rational choices?

The ancient descendants of Abraham in Egypt for the most part had no love for God; for over the four centuries that they had been held captive by various Pharaohs, they evidently turned as pagan as their captors and became idol worshipers. Yet, God loved them and rescued them in spite of their sins and lack of love for him. God took that initiative on behalf of his covenant people -- a people who, again for the most part, had no love for God.

Yes, God greatly desires that his love be reciprocated but what if that could only be accomplished by the power of God's sovereign, effectual grace? Look what Paul wrote for example:

1 Tim 1:14
14 The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
NIV

And this is the same apostle who also wrote:

Rom 5:-5
5 And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.
NIV

Or as John put it:

1 John 4:19
19 We love because he first loved us.
NIV

What if fallen mankind, who has no heart for God, can only love God through the gift of his Holy Spirit who himself is love? And when God gives this precious gift to his chosen people who are powerless to love him due to their evil hearts, should we unjustly accuse God of forcing us to love him? Or accuse Him of making mere robots out of us? Or should we be eternally thankful that he has given his people new hearts that enables us to make those right, loving choices?

Just my 2-1/2 cents worth...

No one is powerless to choose to love. Even those that are evil know how to give good gifts to their children…

I understand some people are mentally handicapped but they fall under a different accountability for their choices. I’m speaking of those that have mental capacity and can reason between life and death, good and evil, right and wrong.

To love is a choice that everyone has the power and authority to choose to do. God has NEVER forced anyone to love Him.

It’s God’s goodness and kindness that leads a person to repent… Jesus Christ first loved us… He chose to love us.

In response to His love for us, we can choose to love Him back or not to love Him… it is each individual’s God given and God protected right… no one makes this choice for us, not even God… because if God made the choice for us, He would end up with a bunch of robots.

 

[PaulThomson]

And you're assuming that God really didn't call Job to Satan's attention, so now you're all set to perform magical feats of eisegesis?

And pray tell, what was God's intention behind this:

Job 1:8-12
8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."

9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face."

12 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger."
NIV

Would Satan been able to afflict Job apart from seeking God's permission (v.11)? Or was the devil just being courteous to God and deferring to his Lordship?

And why did God grant Satan his request (v.12)? Why did God suddenly lift his protective hedge from around Job (vv. 9-10)?

Satan tried to goad God into Himself afflicting Job. God would not do that. Satan was claiming the the only reason Job was willingly serving God was because God was protecting him from Satan, who wanted to steal, kill and destroy Job. God allowed Satan to assail Job to show Satan that God could secure the willing allegiance of a righteous man even without God having to cotton wool him in constant physical blessings. Knowing God will keep a righteous man trusting God. But saints going through deep adversity require a deeper knowledge of God to continue standing strong in faith, as God gave to Job to steady him.

Satan could have afflicted Job without seeking God's permission, if he could have stopped Job from trusting in God's protection and blessing. By Job's faith in God had been too strong and constant for Satan to gain entry. Job's refusal to rebel against God despite his suffering was a rebuke to Satan who had not been suffering at all, when he rebelled against God.

 

[LifelongLearner]

It struck me with some force a year ago summer time that I was almost seventy. Heh, it sounded so old! I was not yet 69 then, but that has come and gone, now, too. I was laid off with the COVID closures mid March of '20, after turning 65 and getting a cancer diagnosis, went through all my treatments: chemo, radiation, surgery, more chemo, another surgery, months and months and months of wound care, then a hernia repair... when my boss called me back to work! I said yes because otherwise I sit in my chair tinkering with my designs and am not nearly active enough... Hugs to you too and I hope you are feeling much better very soon! Have a cuppa with lemon and honey...

You've certainly kept your fire too Magenta, definitely didn't think you were 70 and glory! You've been through the wars me darling but looks like the big guy upstairs is watching out for you. Don't think the Lord minds us using affectionate terms for him, least i hope not

Thanks for the concern too and wow you're still in employment after all you've been through. A backbone of steel for sure, good on you lassie! Feeling a lot better but still tiredish, think i'll be up to some posting tomorrow, this forum has been really lively. God's blessings and big hugs to you, all that's good for now.