Grace: A License to Sin (FALSE!)

[valiant]

If a believer backslides into sin and they refuse to repent of it, they are not saved during the time they are backslidden. God's grace does not cover any kind of rebellion done against Him.

This is where you go so TOTALLY wrong. You do not understand salvation. You think we have to participate in saving ourselves, and that if we falter we 'lose salvation'. But that is because to you 'salvation' is an end result. We have to attain it whilst of course God has to contribute by cleansing from sin again and again because there is no overall cleansing..

But the Bible picture of salvation is so totally different. First of all it is the consequence of God's grace, that is, His active unmerited love and favour. As we become aware of God's saving activity being carried out towards us solely due to His unmerited love and favour we respond by believing. It is all God's work, we simply accept it by faith (by recognising His gracious work and saying thank you).

'By grace (God's unmerited love and favour) you have been and are now saved (perfect tense) through faith, and that salvation is not of yourselves IT IS THE FREE GIFT OF GOD not of works lest any man should boast.' (Eph 2.8-9)

Note WE HAVE BEEN SAVED as a free gift, not as a loan. Jesus Christ is now our Savior. It happened in the past and it continues to the present. There is nothing more for us to do. From now on it is His work. A licence to sin? Nonsense. God has dealt with that too. 'For we are created in Christ Jesus UNTO good works which God has before ordained that we should walk in them' (verse 10). God is at work in us to will and do of His good pleasure (Phil 2.13).

Salvation is God's work not ours, and it includes having the guilt of sin removed from the start (Rom 4.5), (we have been saved), God continually working in us 'bringing us from one degree of glory to another' (2 Cor 3.18), we are being saved (1 Cor 1.18); AND THE GUARANTEE THAT HE WILL FINALLY PRESENT US PERFECT BEFORE HIM (EPH 5.25-27).

It is all His work. We simply respond in love and gratitude.

 

[Jason0047]

Oh I hear ya, Osas'ers only take in half the picture. But there's a point at which, having presented the truth with scripture, anything more is just beating your head against a brick wall. Turn and walk away.

You would like it if I stopped preaching those verses that convict people of their wrong belief and of their wrong actions. But I will never stop preaching the truth of God’s Word just because people do not like it.

 

[mailmandan]

And your point does not refute what the Word says in 1 Peter 4:1, Galatians 5:24, and Romans 6:14.

I am not trying to refute what the Word says and the Word does not teach salvation by sinless perfection. Are you sure that you are correctly interpreting these passages of Scripture?

Again, how many sins did it take for Adam to fall? Why do you believe you are better?

When did I say that I was better than Adam? The bottom is - Romans 3:23 - All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Romans 6:23 - The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Not through our sinless performance.

While I have not overcome all sin yet in my life

Who has? I rest my case.

 

[valiant]

You would like it if I stopped preaching those verses that convict people of their wrong belief and of their wrong actions. But I will never stop preaching the truth of God’s Word just because people do not like it.

well then preach the truth of God's word, not your half truths which miss the important bits out. all you can see is a process. you know nothing about a beginning as God acts in power and justification and no faith in Christ's power to see it through to the end.

 

[gb9]

You would like it if I stopped preaching those verses that convict people of their wrong belief and of their wrong actions. But I will never stop preaching the truth of God’s Word just because people do not like it.

actually you should really try to do just that. and maybe stop teaching your version of God's word?? because that is exactly what you do. make the Bible say what you want it to say, not what it says.

 

[Jason0047]

This is where you go so TOTALLY wrong. You do not understand salvation. You think we have to participate in saving ourselves, and that if we falter we 'lose salvation'. But that is because to you 'salvation' is an end result. We have to attain it whilst of course God has to contribute by cleansing from sin again and again because there is no overall cleansing..

But the Bible picture of salvation is so totally different. First of all it is the consequence of God's grace, that is, His active unmerited love and favour. As we become aware of God's saving activity being carried out towards us solely due to His unmerited love and favour we respond by believing. It is all God's work, we simply accept it by faith (by recognising His gracious work and saying thank you).

'By grace (God's unmerited love and favour) you have been and are now saved (perfect tense) through faith, and that salvation is not of yourselves IT IS THE FREE GIFT OF GOD not of works lest any man should boast.' (Eph 2.8-9)

Note WE HAVE BEEN SAVED as a free gift, not as a loan. Jesus Christ is now our Savior. It happened in the past and it continues to the present. There is nothing more for us to do. From now on it is His work. A licence to sin? Nonsense. God has dealt with that too. 'For we are created in Christ Jesus UNTO good works which God has before ordained that we should walk in them' (verse 10). God is at work in us to will and do of His good pleasure (Phil 2.13).

Salvation is God's work not ours, and it includes having the guilt of sin removed from the start (Rom 4.5), (we have been saved), God continually working in us 'bringing us from one degree of glory to another' (2 Cor 3.18), we are being saved (1 Cor 1.18); AND THE GUARANTEE THAT HE WILL FINALLY PRESENT US PERFECT BEFORE HIM (EPH 5.25-27).

It is all His work. We simply respond in love and gratitude.

So no sin after becoming a believer can separate you from God? Sorry, that is not what we see when we read 2 Peter 2:20, Hebrews 10:26, Hebrews 10:38, Romans 11:22, Proverbs 28:13, Isaiah 59:2, Ezekiel 18:24, Matthew 6:15, 1 John 3:15.

 

[Jason0047]

actually you should really try to do just that. and maybe stop teaching your version of God's word?? because that is exactly what you do. make the Bible say what you want it to say, not what it says.

If what you say is true, then you would be explaining the verses I brought forth.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

My life does not change what the Word says. As I said, your belief here is sight based and not faith based. In addition, giving into the idea that one will always sin is an attitude of defeat that is making an excuse for sin to take place in your life (When it doesn't have to be that way). Your belief leads to unrighteousness as a guarantee (And it does not lead to holiness). For god wants believers to be ye holy as He is Holy. Paul says sin shall not have dominion over you, but you say sin will continue to have dominion over the believer because you do not believe they can crucify the affections and lusts or suffer in the flesh so as to cease from sin.

NOPE . . . WRONG . . . . "giving into the idea that one will always sin is an attitude of defeat" . . . NO - it does not produce an attitude of defeat. It produces an attitude of don't give up, tomorrow is another day in which we again have another chance to walk without sin; an attitude of fighting; another day in which to fight our flesh, fight the adversary; not with an attitude of "I have to reach perfection" but with the attitude of one day living without sin for we can only live one day at a time. How can we help but NOT want to live in obedience for the love God has for us that he has made us his children through faith in his Son Jesus Christ. How can we NOT want to live in obedience after Christ gave his life for us? No defeatism when we know God never stops forgiving - that he cast our sins away from us as far as the east is from the west; that he has marked those that are his and will keep those that are his . . . trying to attain perfectionism brings about an attitude of defeat for one gives up when the more he tries to live sinless . . . the more he tries to practice that which is good - the more he finds himself sinning! Then it's like - "Why even try? God just gives up on me so why should I try? God is not faithful to his promises so why should I remain faithful?"

Those of us who know that we are made righteous by what Christ accomplished do not make excuses for sin - most are basically right up front with our heavenly Father - it's called honesty. God looking upon us knows we won't be able to be obedient 24/7. He knows that we are weak "in the flesh" - that's why he sent his Son. If we could practice perfectionism at all times - why wouldn't we still be under the law? God wants his children to obey - of that there is no question . . . we should obey. The question lies in - will we? And if we can honestly be without any sin - Why 1 John 1:9? And if we can honestly be without any sin - What need do we have of an advocate? If the blood of Jesus ONLY cleanses if we walk in the light - How did it cleanse us in the first place when we were wretched sinners who didn't even know to do good?

 

[Jason0047]

well then preach the truth of God's word, not your half truths which miss the important bits out. all you can see is a process. you know nothing about a beginning as God acts in power and justification and no faith in Christ's power to see it through to the end.

Your statement here does not really mean anything unless you can prove your case with Scripture and properly e plain those verses that refute OSAS.

 

[Jason0047]

NOPE . . . WRONG . . . . "giving into the idea that one will always sin is an attitude of defeat" . . . NO - it does not produce an attitude of defeat. It produces an attitude of don't give up, tomorrow is another day in which we again have another chance to walk without sin; an attitude of fighting; another day in which to fight our flesh, fight the adversary; not with an attitude of "I have to reach perfection" but with the attitude of one day living without sin for we can only live one day at a time. How can we help but NOT want to live in obedience for the love God has for us that he has made us his children through faith in his Son Jesus Christ. How can we NOT want to live in obedience after Christ gave his life for us? No defeatism when we know God never stops forgiving - that he cast our sins away from us as far as the east is from the west; that he has marked those that are his and will keep those that are his . . . trying to attain perfectionism brings about an attitude of defeat for one gives up when the more he tries to live sinless . . . the more he tries to practice that which is good - the more he finds himself sinning! Then it's like - "Why even try? God just gives up on me so why should I try? God is not faithful to his promises so why should I remain faithful?"

Those of us who know that we are made righteous by what Christ accomplished do not make excuses for sin - most are basically right up front with our heavenly Father - it's called honesty. God looking upon us knows we won't be able to be obedient 24/7. He knows that we are weak "in the flesh" - that's why he sent his Son. If we could practice perfectionism at all times - why wouldn't we still be under the law? God wants his children to obey - of that there is no question . . . we should obey. The question lies in - will we? And if we can honestly be without any sin - Why 1 John 1:9? And if we can honestly be without any sin - What need do we have of an advocate? If the blood of Jesus ONLY cleanses if we walk in the light - How did it cleanse us in the first place when we were wretched sinners who didn't even know to do good?

You are only deceiving yourself because you do not believe the Scriptures that say we can cease from sin. Not giving up does not matter if you believe you always ultimately fail. It is a future declaration that you are going to serve evil instead of God.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

If your child destroyed half the world and was seeking to kill you, would he really still be your loving son?

If that child had my DNA - then YES, he would still be my child . . . I have an adult child that is addicted to drugs - we have tried to help her when she was younger but it seems she is beyond our help - Is she still my child although she lives in disobedience? Our fellowship, our communion together as mother/daughter is very strained but she is still my child. So I just continue to pray for her.

 

[gb9]

If what you say is true, then you would be explaining the verses I brought forth.

see, here we go again. verses do not refute, or contradict. they complement. I believe the Bible, not certain verses that back up my opinions. because that is what you have opinions of what verses mean, not what they in context, rightly divided mean.

 

[skylove7]

Jason please forgive me.

Im not trying to fuss.

But if you would be kind enough to answer
One question

In all these forums
I only asked u once

In one thread for ur opinion

And u avoided my question

I think you reminded me to repent..likely of u.

But that question...Im still curious for you to answer

Is...

U acknowledge yourself.....
And others for this sin free life
U claim u live...
U claim is possible...

But I once asked you

Jason..what about people that

Yesssd! Live sin free

They get publicly praised

But I asked you

What if their quote 'sin free'

Physically body....

Was really a secret evil pervert in their minds

It happens everyday Jason

People are praised for Cellibacy....and Worship to God


Yet....
They are secret perverts
That fantacize murder and molestation

You avoided this one and only question from me I other threads

When are you goingvto answer

Your. Justification of people

We can all live physically sin free
U toot that horn..its your triumph!

But u always avoid the answer I need

What about the mental creeps

The ones that are cellibate publicly

Yet may murder or molest in mind

Thats what Id like u to say ur thought on

For u truly post after post

Try to make us believe
That just because a person dont drink smoke fornicate murder

I am going to believe they are perfect?

 

[peacefulbeliever]

You are only deceiving yourself because you do not believe the Scriptures that say we can cease from sin. Not giving up does not matter if you believe you always ultimately fail. It is a future declaration that you are going to serve evil instead of God.

Thank you for answering my questions. (NADA)

I didn't say "always ultimately fail". Each child of God has areas in which they are weak . . . some are easier to overcome than others . . . so we continue to mortify those deeds daily. You act like someone who believes in eternal security doesn't even try to please God by walking in obedience! Not giving up DOES matter even knowing that I MAY fail . . . It's the attitude of heart -

Doesn't matter - then I would be living like hell and wouldn't even care if I were sinning or not . . . That's the attitude you have toward anyone who believes in eternal security and that is not TRUE.

I'm so glad you aren't God. I'm so glad that I am His daughter because of the spirit born within me; because He chose me and adopted me whereby I cry Abba, Father . . . I go boldly before the throne of God knowing that regardless of my faults and failures He chose me . . . He knows my every weakness, He knows my every failure, and He still loves me - His Son died for me when I was sinner and headed for death without hope and without Him in this world!!!! How much more will He do for me being His child?

 

[skylove7]

Im sorry Jason

But when I fall in love someday.
My love will not be perfect
And I am not either!

But I will adore his imperfections

For that is what makes us human ! Not Jesus!
For they are forgiven

And I shall adore his whole being
Because
Jesus loves us and forgives that we are not perfect

Please for ur own good Jason

Just admit sometimes

You are at fault too

For u accuse us all of being such atrocious sinners

I feel guilty when I laugh at ur treatment of us....

Yet ur self righteousness

Is such a joke

I dunno how to feel

I just dont

 

[skylove7]

Forgive me loved ones.

But fakes that claim we can all be sin free.

They just want your praise to them folks.

Yess Jason claims he is sin free

Your effervescent robes blind me Jason

U never lust in your head for sexual pleasure?
U never get pissed at a bill company thats in error?

Oh please!

 

[Jason0047]

I am not trying to refute what the Word says and the Word does not teach salvation by sinless perfection. Are you sure that you are correctly interpreting these passages of Scripture?

Well, then, please quote those passages and tell me what you think they say. Quote the text and give a word by word explanation on 1 Peter 4:1, Galatians 5:24, John 8:34, Romans 6:14, Psalm 119:11, and Ezekiel 18:24.

When did I say that I was better than Adam?

Do you believe you can die in unrepentant sin like lying, lusting and hating another and still be saved?
Is not saying you are going to sin sometime in the future essentially making an excuse for sin?

The bottom is - Romans 3:23 - All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Romans 6:23 - The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Not through our sinless performance.

These passages are primarily talking about Justification when one first receives Christ after they repent of their sins and accept Christ as their Savior. They are not talking Sanctification which is where the believer continues on in their faith and walk with the Lord. Remember, Hebrews 5:9 says Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him. Do you believe that passage?

Who has? I rest my case.

Jesus Christ, and if Christ lives in a person then they can overcome sin and by allowing Christ to defeat it. For Jesus Christ was manifested to destroy the works of the devil. Also, like I said before, there are many things we take by faith in God's Word, too. For you did not see the universe created in six days. But even if someone did live sinless, does that mean you are like God whereby you would be aware of them? No. For lets just say that only 1 out of 10-15 million people are actually living sinless upon this Earth. Would you really be aware of them? Remember, narrow is the way that leads unto life and it is not the wide gate path that everyone is on.

 

[skylove7]

You fail Jason

You fail to live a perfect life
Like all of us U battle here at CC

Why didnt u resign months ago?

Back when u kept my friends upset?

Why wont they ban you?

Because technical
You are not violent

So Robo keeps u

But ur still a Sad Sad legalist

Shall I really break out my pictures of experiences

That Jesus loves...oh yes..us imperfect children!

Stop it Jason# U got words...I got pics that God loves us inperfect reborn sinners.

Oh nooo dont make mr break out Jesus on ur vanity

 

[Jason0047]

Granted, I am not saying you have to be perfect or stop sinning completely in order to be saved. But if you say you will always sin the rest of your life, then you are setting yourself up for failure to sin (And signing over your allegiance to sin and not God and His good ways). What I am saying is that it is an attitude in how you view God and sin. Are you making excuses for it by saying you will forever be a slave to it? Do you believe 1 Peter 4:1 that you can cease from sin as it states? Why wouldn't you want to cease from sin so as to please your Lord? Do you believe Galatians 5:24 that those who are Christ's are they that have crucified the affections and lusts? Do you believe Romans 6:14 when it says sin shall not have dominion over you? Is sin having dominion in our lives? Do you believe that you can overcome sin? I sure do. Do you not know that Jesus was manifested to destroy the works of the devil?

 

[Jason0047]

How were the false prophets identified by Peter? He said they could not cease from sin and they had eyes full of adultery (2 Peter 2:1, 14).