Has anyone found secret messages in the bible?

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seekingthemindofChrist

Casting down imaginations
Jul 10, 2023
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573
113
Then what do you say to people who rightfully accuse the Bible of being corrupt?
I am just going to honestly answer your question once, and, hopefully, this will suffice.

For starters, I believe that the underlying texts are fine in the KJV, even as I have already said. With that being the case, even if something has been poorly or wrongly translated into English from those texts, then I would not personally call that "the Bible being corrupt." In other words, the translation may be poor or faulty, but the underlying texts themselves are not corrupt. This is my well-researched opinion which has been formulated over many years of personal study, and nobody is going to change my mind. Beyond that, I have proven the Bible to be true in a multitude of ways over the years, so my faith in it being the word of God is unshakeable.

When it comes to many other Bible versions, I do fully believe that they have been terribly and deliberately corrupted...both in the underlying texts and in the English translations. I am not going to get into an argument with anybody over the things that I just said, but this is what I fully and firmly believe.

Now, to answer your question...

I simply preach to people the incorruptible seed of God's word (whether they believe it to be incorruptible or not) by which they must be born again, and then I pray for God to convince them of the same or to give the increase by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth.

Basically what I am saying is this...

I could not care less, to a very real degree, what people think about the Bible. It is the truth, whether others believe it to be so or not, and if it is truly preached, then the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, will seek to bring its hearers to a place of repentance.

This is how I operate.
 

NTNT58

Active member
Sep 20, 2023
525
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With respect, faith is for things we can't see, like the certainty of our resurrection. We can see that the word of God is true, by reason of fulfilled prophecy, internal consistency, scientific facts unknowable when they were written, and many other reasons. :)
"internal consistency" What are you talking about?! You don't even know which version is 100% correct. There are over 400,000 manuscripts and scholars are divided on which ones are true. They can't all be true because THEY CONTRADICT EATCH OTHER.

Also Quran has it's own scientific facts.
 

NTNT58

Active member
Sep 20, 2023
525
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This is my well-researched opinion which has been formulated over many years of personal study, and nobody is going to change my mind.
WOW! That is just textbook definition of confirmation bias - I'm set in my ways, I don't care what facts I see, I'm sticking to MY facts and nothing is ever going to change my mind.

I could not care less, to a very real degree, what people think about the Bible. It is the truth, whether others believe it to be or not, and if it is truly preached, then the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, will seek to bring its hearers to a place of repentance.
So you could care less about billions of people going astray? Are you one of those street preachers who just yells and insults people all day?

1 Corinthians 13 1 - If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

I simply preach to people the incorruptible seed of God's word (whether they believe it to be incorruptible or not) by which they must be born again, and then I pray for God to convince them of the same or to give the increase by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth..
That is what I preach as well, but the effects of your preaching will be greatly reduced when you lack love and when you refuse to defend the very Bible you are preaching.
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
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I've asked you this before and you never answered... How do you answer someone who accuses the Bible of being corrupt?
I did answer you. I told you I have never experienced that accusation. Remember?
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
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With respect, faith is for things we can't see, like the certainty of our resurrection. We can see that the word of God is true, by reason of fulfilled prophecy, internal consistency, scientific facts unknowable when they were written, and many other reasons. :)
Yes, but there are many prophecies yet to be fulfilled; they’re still in the future. Also, we have faith that our Father will keep every single promise He has ever made to us in His Word.
Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised) - Hebrews 10:23 (KJV)
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
7,179
1,801
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You don't even know which version is 100% correct.
Who sets the decision about what is 100% correct? You??
Correct grammatically?
Correct in spelling?

I believe many translations are correct. Small discrepancies that do not change the basic message of the Word do not make a translation trash.

There IS no "100% correct" version by YOUR definition..... except, of course, the one YOU choose to call correct.

You should take your KJV only-ism and head on down the road. It's been hashed and re-hashed many times in this forum alone. It basically comes down to the KJV only-ists chanting their mantra about 100% correct, or every word the true word of God, yada, yada... and the sensible people proving that several other main stream translations are actually more accurate, and certainly more understandable than the KJV.
I have nothing against the KJV, other than the archaic language, with words and phrases that mean nothing to present day new scholars.... the very people you claim to be trying to reach... I've seen more people completely miss a thought or teaching, simply because they did not understand the old English words and phrases.

The sensible solution is to use 3 or 4 different translations, and compare them.... get a parallel Bible, and read them side by side. Any discrepancies should be easy to spot and understand.

There is no other book that has stood the test of time like the word of God has.... that should be proof enough for anyone seeking the truth.
 

NTNT58

Active member
Sep 20, 2023
525
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Who sets the decision about what is 100% correct? You??
Correct grammatically?
Correct in spelling?

I believe many translations are correct. Small discrepancies that do not change the basic message of the Word do not make a translation trash.

There IS no "100% correct" version by YOUR definition..... except, of course, the one YOU choose to call correct.

You should take your KJV only-ism and head on down the road. It's been hashed and re-hashed many times in this forum alone. It basically comes down to the KJV only-ists chanting their mantra about 100% correct, or every word the true word of God, yada, yada... and the sensible people proving that several other main stream translations are actually more accurate, and certainly more understandable than the KJV.
I have nothing against the KJV, other than the archaic language, with words and phrases that mean nothing to present day new scholars.... the very people you claim to be trying to reach... I've seen more people completely miss a thought or teaching, simply because they did not understand the old English words and phrases.

The sensible solution is to use 3 or 4 different translations, and compare them.... get a parallel Bible, and read them side by side. Any discrepancies should be easy to spot and understand.

There is no other book that has stood the test of time like the word of God has.... that should be proof enough for anyone seeking the truth.
So in other words you haven't read anything I said before replying...

I am NOT a KJV only-ist. I use other translations for easier under standing. I DONT LIKE KJV for it's difficulty and being confusing at times. I challenged people to disprove the mathematical evidence provided in the links and videos I posted. I also challenged people to point out an error in the KJV version, so far the two people that tried failed.

Do you know what the doctrine of inerrancy is? Are you willing to throw it away?

I don't know which version is 100% correct (and neither do you) this is why I'm trying to find out. And at this point I'm not sure if you're trying to help or just trolling.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,596
13,859
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I also challenged people to point out an error in the KJV version, so far the two people that tried failed.
2 Kings 8:26 Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Athaliah, the daughter of Omri king of Israel.

2 Chronicles 22:2 Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Athaliah the daughter of Omri.

There's your error... one of many, but only one is needed.
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
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Ok, let me rephrase the question... how *would* you answer such accusation?
I don’t know because, to be honest, only through the Holy Spirit can anyone understand spiritual truths.

Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

- 1 Corinthians 2:6-16 (KJV)





 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,502
2,707
113
I feel like God called me to minister to atheists because I used to be one and I know all their arguments and their line of thinking, but one thing I still cannot refute is their accusation of the Bible being corrupt. I can share my faith and inspire belief in God. I can provide some proof for Christianity, but the only way I can defend the Bible as inerrant is compare the thousands of different "religions" we have in the world today to thousands of manuscripts of the Bible - they contradict each other, but that doesn't mean there isn't one that is 100% true, we just don't know which one of the manuscripts it is.

Bible corruption is the main reason why billions of people are now Muslim and will soon be majority of the population. Their main argument is Bible is corrupted and Quran is preserved. I can explain ALL apparent contradictions in the Bible, but some of them require nothing short of mental gymnastics.

Should we just throw away the doctrine of inerrancy? Could we say that God inspired the human writers of the Bible, but humans just make mistakes? So the main message of the Bible is God inspired, but the Bible is just full of errors because humans corrupt everything they touch.
This is why so many do not reach people they rely on their knowledge pf scripyutr they present the truth bu human means to those who do not know the truth. I feel I am called to the broken the wounded those who have only knwon pain and suffering attact from so called Christians I have seen the results of such methods they are broken bleeding they sta away from Christians many I have encountered were shock to find out I was a Christian

I didn't point ouyt their sins and relentless ly point out their sins using scripture to reach people you require a heart of understanding pain and suffering makes people go away from God instead of showing them where they are wrong when you treat them as Jesus treated the sinners they see something in you

presenting the truth is not to attack with scripture or show them how much of a sinner how much they lack how far away trhey are from God Jesus is the truth the way and the life so going about it any other way is simply foolish.

You know the struggle so you are already well equipeed to understand empathise and help them it is the method you go about that makes the difference.

No one accept it by scripture becaus they don'y accept God to begin with you will only make them go farther from God than before but if they see you different in your actions your words the presence you bring actions speak far more than words.

You first have to seek after the truth without refusing anythin else you have go toChrist himself to surrender utterlt him not just as your savior but your Lord many call him Lord but do not know the gravity of that title is you have actual reverence to him and give up your wants your willingness what you think as truth

Beleive me this seems like something many do but they do not truly know him and do not live with him they do not go into the deeper mystery and wonders of himself because they rely on their knowledge of the wriitten word but the living word shows you what the actual truth of the word of God he brings in you a real of the things we speak and read and teach about is real not just an idea or doctrine it changes you you see and understand things you never dreamed of he will if you utterly surrender to him come and live with you he even shows up physically you are not seperated by heaven and earth not spirit and flesh you actually know him you meet him and love living with him

When you get to this point you reach people where those who use scriipture and their knowledge of scripture fail how often do you see scripture and so called truth change a persons heart? you seek the truth the real truth you go and bow before Jesus himself as if he is right in front of you refusing to move until he gives you and trust me if your dead serious he will it changes you the truth needed begins with our utter surrender to him as king giving up anytinh we have our understanding what we think the word of God is and accepting what he says goes no matter what we think or believe

This is when he changes you when he fills you with truth the actualy experience of being with him and thus people just see this in you just in the words you speak they tell you that you are different they tell of all the Christians and churches that with their method only made them go further from God

I have spoken of this to many Christians because I got an actual tase him the power of God left me stunned unable to move just smiling he hS FILLED MY ROOM WITH HIS GOLDEN MIST OF HIS PRESENCE YOU ARE HOME YOU KNOW HIM SO MUC MORE IN HIS PRESNEC jESUS HAS VISITED ME several times because I was I was tired of this battle of scriptuire and trui\th that people only use to prove their doctrine their view AND SAY OTHERS ARE FALSE i HAVE only seen wars debates arguments the bllatent use of his word as if is a toy to use how you see fit and not to help ecerouge or strengthen our brethen but make war to make themselves right it is used to attack

Jesus did the opposite even among the sinners and ubelievers he showed compassion understanding he saw past their sins and that is how so many were saved and loved him the Pharisees thought themselves to be truth and looked down on other they knew the scripture but used it only for themselve how many did they save?

I am sick of Christians claining to attack in the so called truth I have seen first hand the damage they do to the misunderstoo the sinners who do do not have anyone to be there for them who tell them what God sees not society not Christianhs not even themselves
To me and trust me I have met a blood warlock see someone worth fighting for I don't point out their sins that they have told over and over I show them compassion I tell them they are not what everyone say I use scripture to heal encourage build and empathis

While it seems most use it as a sword or to debate and try to prove themselves and then opthers wrong but I have used it to heal to encourage to build up even amogst the worst of sinners and turns out that was the cure needed
I have been a liar a hypocrite a false prophet delusional lacking understanding of doctrine and scripture and people can say what they want but the sinners I was able to reach where other Christians failed to me this is what truth is what good is having all thge knowledge scripture if you don't do anything with it if it doesn't hope encouragment if it doeasn't help yp heal I wounded soul?

People his word for the opposite reason so the truth is granted to only a few those who have it get actual results not back and forth bickering and pointing others flaws
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,923
2,118
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2 Kings 8:26 Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Athaliah, the daughter of Omri king of Israel.

2 Chronicles 22:2 Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Athaliah the daughter of Omri.

There's your error... one of many, but only one is needed.
Usually one can look at both "BlueLetterBible" and "BibleHub" to see what differences there are between manuscripts;
but in the case of these two verses, both BLB and B-Hub show the same distinctions in the Hebrew (between these two verses)... so what would a translator do in this case, purposely fudge one of verses (so that they'll "match" each other)?;
or should they translate them from the Hebrew AS THEY ARE [apparently, according to these sources, below]?


2Kings8:26 -
-- BLB
- https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/2ki/8/26/ss1/t_conc_321026
--BibleHub - https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_kings/8-26.htm



2Chron22:2 -
--BLB
- https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/2ch/22/2/t_conc_389002
--BibleHub - https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_chronicles/22-2.htm






So, is it really that the "translation" is incorrect; or is it that the actual Hebrew (in each of these two verses) is actually different for whatever reason?
 

seekingthemindofChrist

Casting down imaginations
Jul 10, 2023
1,178
573
113
WOW! That is just textbook definition of confirmation bias - I'm set in my ways, I don't care what facts I see, I'm sticking to MY facts and nothing is ever going to change my mind.



So you could care less about billions of people going astray? Are you one of those street preachers who just yells and insults people all day?

1 Corinthians 13 1 - If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.



That is what I preach as well, but the effects of your preaching will be greatly reduced when you lack love and when you refuse to defend the very Bible you are preaching.
Great job totally misapplying everything that I said.

It is an absolute waste of time trying to reason with you.

I will leave you in your own little world.
 

seekingthemindofChrist

Casting down imaginations
Jul 10, 2023
1,178
573
113
WOW! That is just textbook definition of confirmation bias - I'm set in my ways, I don't care what facts I see, I'm sticking to MY facts and nothing is ever going to change my mind.
This would be funny if it was not so ironically sad.

The only "fact" that you have presented here is the fact that you are a self-deluded and proud individual who fancies himself to be the savior of the ignorant (the rest of us...in your deluded mind).

Now I can leave in peace.

Oh, and you are officially on ignore from this point onward.
 

NTNT58

Active member
Sep 20, 2023
525
41
28
2 Kings 8:26 Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Athaliah, the daughter of Omri king of Israel.

2 Chronicles 22:2 Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Athaliah the daughter of Omri.

There's your error... one of many, but only one is needed.
How do you know which one is correct?
 

NTNT58

Active member
Sep 20, 2023
525
41
28
This is why so many do not reach people they rely on their knowledge pf scripyutr they present the truth bu human means to those who do not know the truth. I feel I am called to the broken the wounded those who have only knwon pain and suffering attact from so called Christians I have seen the results of such methods they are broken bleeding they sta away from Christians many I have encountered were shock to find out I was a Christian

I didn't point ouyt their sins and relentless ly point out their sins using scripture to reach people you require a heart of understanding pain and suffering makes people go away from God instead of showing them where they are wrong when you treat them as Jesus treated the sinners they see something in you

presenting the truth is not to attack with scripture or show them how much of a sinner how much they lack how far away trhey are from God Jesus is the truth the way and the life so going about it any other way is simply foolish.

You know the struggle so you are already well equipeed to understand empathise and help them it is the method you go about that makes the difference.

No one accept it by scripture becaus they don'y accept God to begin with you will only make them go farther from God than before but if they see you different in your actions your words the presence you bring actions speak far more than words.

You first have to seek after the truth without refusing anythin else you have go toChrist himself to surrender utterlt him not just as your savior but your Lord many call him Lord but do not know the gravity of that title is you have actual reverence to him and give up your wants your willingness what you think as truth

Beleive me this seems like something many do but they do not truly know him and do not live with him they do not go into the deeper mystery and wonders of himself because they rely on their knowledge of the wriitten word but the living word shows you what the actual truth of the word of God he brings in you a real of the things we speak and read and teach about is real not just an idea or doctrine it changes you you see and understand things you never dreamed of he will if you utterly surrender to him come and live with you he even shows up physically you are not seperated by heaven and earth not spirit and flesh you actually know him you meet him and love living with him

When you get to this point you reach people where those who use scriipture and their knowledge of scripture fail how often do you see scripture and so called truth change a persons heart? you seek the truth the real truth you go and bow before Jesus himself as if he is right in front of you refusing to move until he gives you and trust me if your dead serious he will it changes you the truth needed begins with our utter surrender to him as king giving up anytinh we have our understanding what we think the word of God is and accepting what he says goes no matter what we think or believe

This is when he changes you when he fills you with truth the actualy experience of being with him and thus people just see this in you just in the words you speak they tell you that you are different they tell of all the Christians and churches that with their method only made them go further from God

I have spoken of this to many Christians because I got an actual tase him the power of God left me stunned unable to move just smiling he hS FILLED MY ROOM WITH HIS GOLDEN MIST OF HIS PRESENCE YOU ARE HOME YOU KNOW HIM SO MUC MORE IN HIS PRESNEC jESUS HAS VISITED ME several times because I was I was tired of this battle of scriptuire and trui\th that people only use to prove their doctrine their view AND SAY OTHERS ARE FALSE i HAVE only seen wars debates arguments the bllatent use of his word as if is a toy to use how you see fit and not to help ecerouge or strengthen our brethen but make war to make themselves right it is used to attack

Jesus did the opposite even among the sinners and ubelievers he showed compassion understanding he saw past their sins and that is how so many were saved and loved him the Pharisees thought themselves to be truth and looked down on other they knew the scripture but used it only for themselve how many did they save?

I am sick of Christians claining to attack in the so called truth I have seen first hand the damage they do to the misunderstoo the sinners who do do not have anyone to be there for them who tell them what God sees not society not Christianhs not even themselves
To me and trust me I have met a blood warlock see someone worth fighting for I don't point out their sins that they have told over and over I show them compassion I tell them they are not what everyone say I use scripture to heal encourage build and empathis

While it seems most use it as a sword or to debate and try to prove themselves and then opthers wrong but I have used it to heal to encourage to build up even amogst the worst of sinners and turns out that was the cure needed
I have been a liar a hypocrite a false prophet delusional lacking understanding of doctrine and scripture and people can say what they want but the sinners I was able to reach where other Christians failed to me this is what truth is what good is having all thge knowledge scripture if you don't do anything with it if it doesn't hope encouragment if it doeasn't help yp heal I wounded soul?

People his word for the opposite reason so the truth is granted to only a few those who have it get actual results not back and forth bickering and pointing others flaws
Ah yes I've heard the phrase "ain't no hate like Christian love". Never really got much of an example of it until i came to this forum. So much hatred and unchristian behavior! People are so close minded and gnash their teeth at you (figuratively speaking) if you ever challenge their worldview. I've seen similar behavior ministering to Muslims. I often forget we must have humility and forgiveness when others insult us. Other times I do remember, but I feel like not matching their energy would just make my point look weak and theirs strong, leading others to believe their lies and insults.

God's word is like a sword that is used to discern evil from good, but people often forget about love - 1 Corinthians 13 1"If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient, love is kind."

I know it's the holy spirit that converts, and there is no converting people who are destined by God to be lost, but we don't know who they are, so we have to try and address everyone's questions, including ones about the scripture. If we shy away from it or dismiss them, that's only going to drive people away from faith. And even if they are saved eventually, that's still sin and havoc in the world that could have been prevented.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,422
3,679
113
Many formulas are only present in KJV, why is that? My judgement (and yours) is irrelevant in light of evidence. So either find a way to disprove the evidence or stop complaining.
There is no evidence. You can't disprove something that doesn't exist.
 

Anni

Active member
Sep 27, 2023
201
137
43
Searches for secret, hidden knowledge reminds me of Genesis 3 verse 5.
I don't understand why we would need to seek anything like codes or hidden knowledge in the Bible.
Sounds like an old idea wearing a new cloak. That's Gnosticism.
Proverbs 30 verses 5-6.