Has the law been put aside? If so, when?

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Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
17,246
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Well... I see there's yet another newcomer eager to set the ignorant on the right path.

Just once I'd like to see one who actually exhibits the fruit of the Spirit.
 
Nov 23, 2018
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The New Covenant has one purpose only, to put the Spirit of God into the Jew's inward parts, so he will be able to keep the same law as under the old Covenant, but will love doing it and will do it all, which he was unable to do under the OC. See Jer 31:31-34 and Heb 8:8. The Jews at Pentecost and, 8 years later, the first grafted in Gentiles, experienced a taste of the New Covenant with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The only reason Gentiles received it was because they were then PART of Israel's program. Now, since the Gentiles have absolutely nothing to do with Israel, in any way whatsoever, they have no part in the covenants, which ONLY belong to Israel, Jer 31:31-34. Heb 8:8.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
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I set all the pack of Judaizers to ignore. None of their false teaching could possibly interest me at all and I won't waste any more time with them. Anyone that preaches anything outside of the Bible preaches nonsense. I just pray that no one listens to them. One's afterlife is at stake. Why jeopardize it by believing something that is so totally non-Biblical, it becomes ANTI-Biblical.

There is no Israel today. They were set aside, as a nation, by God, in Acts 28:28, about 64AD, when the Salvation of God (Jesus Christ) was taken from them and given to the Gentiles. The Jews have not kept the Law since 70AD. They can't, without a temple. And, without keeping the law, it is impossible for them to be God's people. Look at them as being on a 2000 year sabbatical, where they are non-existent, as a punishment for severe unbelief. In God's eyes, they are now just another nation. This 2000 year sabbatical will be up about 2064. Israel will then be back in God's Graces. Please note that, during the 2000 Years from Gen 12 through Acts, had they not kept the Law, God would have killed them.

The Law has not been put aside. Israel will have to keep it at least until the New Heavens and New Earth.
Mt 5:18 - ESV
"For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished."

During the Millennium, and probably way before that, animal sacrifices will take place

However, in the 4000 year Bible History, starting at Gen 12, no Gentile, other than a proselyte, has EVER been Commanded to keep the Law, by Moses, by Christ, by the 12, by Paul, by nobody. Today, any Gentile that thinks they should keep the law, severely jeopardizes their chance of spending eternity in the Highest Heaven. Don't pay any attention to the Judaizers or you will suffer for it in the end. What God says is infinitely more important than anything you'll get from these FAKE JEWS.
You ignore the fact that Jesus stated that he did not come to break the law and the prophets but to fulfill. That the law is in place until the heavens and earth disappear. Why do you reject this teaching of Jesus? Also it was prophesied that the Jews would return to Israel. In point of fact all ethnic Jews have the Levitical marker in their DNA.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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The Good Shepherd's flock was 100% Jews, by their relationship to Jacob's 12 sons, with ZERO exceptions, excpt for proselytes. God ALWAYS treats Jews and Gentiles 100% differently. For the 2000 years from Gen 12 through Acts 10, the Gentiles were always filthy infidel dogs, with absolutely no blessings, unless they became Jews themselves, as proselytes. For the present 2000 years, from Ac28:28, 64AD, through about 2064, there is no Israel, in God's eyes. The Gentiles are now God's chosen people (Ephesians 1:4) and Jews must essentially become Gentiles and believe 1Cor 15:1-4, to get saved. All this will change when we Gentiles and Jews who have been given the eyes of understanding to SEE the Hope of His Calling, are resurrected in Heavenly places. After that, Elijah will restore everything, Israel will be back on the scene, and prophecy will once again be fulfilled. The only way God will allow anyone to SEE this Hope, found only in Paul's 7 post-Acts books, is if they totally eliminate everything they think applies to them from the other 59 books EVERYTHING JEWISH.

I will intentionally lose sight of everything you and your ilk will ever say. This is because, without a doubt, you are the same as the Judiazers Paul fought against in Galatians. NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL. Have you gotten circumcised yet, or are you just picking and choosing the best stuff? When did you last sacrifice an animal?

What do you guys have against Scripture? I notice you never quote it.
Would that be 100% inward Jews born of the Spirit of Christ or 100% outward Jews pertaining to the flesh which cannot (impossible) please God? Remember not all Israel is born again Israel or the new name the husband named his bride...…….. "Christian" Literally meaning "residents of the city of Christ" the heavenly Jerusalem not seen describes as the one bride of Christ in Revelation 21

Romans 8:8-10 King James Version (KJV) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

God defines the words he uses to describe his bride the church

Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

, ,
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
399
83
Would that be 100% inward Jews born of the Spirit of Christ or 100% outward Jews pertaining to the flesh which cannot (impossible) please God? Remember not all Israel is born again Israel or the new name the husband named his bride...…….. "Christian" Literally meaning "residents of the city of Christ" the heavenly Jerusalem not seen describes as the one bride of Christ in Revelation 21

Romans 8:8-10 King James Version (KJV) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

God defines the words he uses to describe his bride the church

Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

, ,
Here is Paul lamenting about his inability to live free of sin.

Romans 7 NIV
7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
 
Nov 23, 2018
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Would that be 100% inward Jews born of the Spirit of Christ or 100% outward Jews pertaining to the flesh which cannot (impossible) please God? Remember not all Israel is born again Israel or the new name the husband named his bride...…….. "Christian" Literally meaning "residents of the city of Christ" the heavenly Jerusalem not seen describes as the one bride of Christ in Revelation 21

Romans 8:8-10 King James Version (KJV) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

God defines the words he uses to describe his bride the church

Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

, ,
The Bride will be the occupants of the all-Israel New Jerusalem, where each tribe has its own gate. There is no Gentile gate. We, who have eyes to see the Hope of our Calling, Ephesians 1:17-18, found only in Paul's 7 post-Acts books, wll be in the Highest Heaven, God's abode. We will be the Bridegroom's, actual body, at the marriage of the lamb.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,492
963
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The whole argument regarding Law verses Grace is caused by a distorted view of what the Bible is actually about. Its about Gods plan to bring Humanity back into a relationship with him through Christ as the second Adam. The Old Covenant was an important but temporary stage in this process and ended with
Christs first coming when he fulfilled the law on our behalf
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
113
55
HBG. Pa. USA
The New Covenant has one purpose only, to put the Spirit of God into the Jew's inward parts, so he will be able to keep the same law as under the old Covenant, but will love doing it and will do it all, which he was unable to do under the OC. See Jer 31:31-34 and Heb 8:8. The Jews at Pentecost and, 8 years later, the first grafted in Gentiles, experienced a taste of the New Covenant with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The only reason Gentiles received it was because they were then PART of Israel's program. Now, since the Gentiles have absolutely nothing to do with Israel, in any way whatsoever, they have no part in the covenants, which ONLY belong to Israel, Jer 31:31-34. Heb 8:8.
Same covenant (Gospel) for everyone.
Christ is in the Heart and mouth. The Word is in the Heart and mouth. You Can't have one without the other but they are not the Same. The Word is Part of Christ but Christ is not part of the Word. The Word mentioned by Paul in Romans 10:6-8 To the Jew/Gentile Church in Rome is a paraphrase of Deut 30:10-14 and is in reference to the Book of the Law. This is seen in Deut. 30:10 when one keeps everything into context. Verse 10 says, "the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law".
By Paul Paraphrasing Deut. 30:11-14 he through GOD is drawing a parallel between what is stated in Deut. 30:10-14 and what He is talking about in Romans. We are saved by the Faith. Christ; through which the Word is to be in our hearts and mouths; this is the faith in which we speak

For God It was never about doing the written law. His intent in us has always been the Faith that worketh love through the heart through HIS Spirit; who we are in and through HIM. The following text show this connection between the Old Testament and New. The verses in Romans 10:6-8; Deut. 30:11-14 ; Hebrews 8:10,11; Jeremiah 31:33 are all speaking of GOD's gift of enabling us through HIS Spirit to be as HE would have us be. They are all speaking the same just worded different. Please notice that this gift which is the Good News; the Gospel was availed to us from the beginning of Moses ministry if not even from the time of the fall in Eden. Romans paraphrasing the text found in Deut. 30:11-14 Prove this.

Romans 10:6-8,4; Heb 8:10,11 For GOD has said, "Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (That is, to bring Christ, (the Word, all that GOD would have us be. HIS Commandments) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (That is, to bring up Christ, (the Word, all that GOD would have us be. HIS Commandments) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ; the Word, the commandments manifested in the flesh, our flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, in thy heart, and in thy hand: that we may do it; that is, THE WORD OF FAITH, which we preach. And that is the Gospel, the Kingdom of GOD (CHRIST) in you. For GOD hath said, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them." And HE shall be our GOD and we shall be HIS people, for it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. Christ (the Word, His Commandments, GOD's will) in us the hope of Glory. For Christ (through which the Word is in the heart and mouth) is the end of the law (written on stone and in the Book) for righteousness for all that believe. This is the Faith in which we preach. And without this faith it is impossible to please GOD.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,655
4,409
113
Same covenant (Gospel) for everyone.
Christ is in the Heart and mouth. The Word is in the Heart and mouth. You Can't have one without the other but they are not the Same. The Word is Part of Christ but Christ is not part of the Word. The Word mentioned by Paul in Romans 10:6-8 To the Jew/Gentile Church in Rome is a paraphrase of Deut 30:10-14 and is in reference to the Book of the Law. This is seen in Deut. 30:10 when one keeps everything into context. Verse 10 says, "the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law".
By Paul Paraphrasing Deut. 30:11-14 he through GOD is drawing a parallel between what is stated in Deut. 30:10-14 and what He is talking about in Romans. We are saved by the Faith. Christ; through which the Word is to be in our hearts and mouths; this is the faith in which we speak

For God It was never about doing the written law. His intent in us has always been the Faith that worketh love through the heart through HIS Spirit; who we are in and through HIM. The following text show this connection between the Old Testament and New. The verses in Romans 10:6-8; Deut. 30:11-14 ; Hebrews 8:10,11; Jeremiah 31:33 are all speaking of GOD's gift of enabling us through HIS Spirit to be as HE would have us be. They are all speaking the same just worded different. Please notice that this gift which is the Good News; the Gospel was availed to us from the beginning of Moses ministry if not even from the time of the fall in Eden. Romans paraphrasing the text found in Deut. 30:11-14 Prove this.

Romans 10:6-8,4; Heb 8:10,11 For GOD has said, "Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (That is, to bring Christ, (the Word, all that GOD would have us be. HIS Commandments) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (That is, to bring up Christ, (the Word, all that GOD would have us be. HIS Commandments) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ; the Word, the commandments manifested in the flesh, our flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, in thy heart, and in thy hand: that we may do it; that is, THE WORD OF FAITH, which we preach. And that is the Gospel, the Kingdom of GOD (CHRIST) in you. For GOD hath said, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them." And HE shall be our GOD and we shall be HIS people, for it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. Christ (the Word, His Commandments, GOD's will) in us the hope of Glory. For Christ (through which the Word is in the heart and mouth) is the end of the law (written on stone and in the Book) for righteousness for all that believe. This is the Faith in which we preach. And without this faith it is impossible to please GOD.
no, there is not " the same covenant for everyone ". this is just a man-made , made-up lie.

why? well, in Leviticus 26, God speaks to Moses about the Covenant He made with the fathers of the children who came out of Egypt.

so, unless you can trace your ancestry back to those who crossed the red sea, then that covenant was not made for you.
 

marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
114
31
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no, there is not " the same covenant for everyone ". this is just a man-made , made-up lie.

why? well, in Leviticus 26, God speaks to Moses about the Covenant He made with the fathers of the children who came out of Egypt.

so, unless you can trace your ancestry back to those who crossed the red sea, then that covenant was not made for you.


Outside the fact that I am part Jewish, I have guaranteed lineage by adoption through the blood of Christ. When I believed in Christ by the act of faith, I became a child of God. I became a part of the very lineage you speak about. I became a relative of Abraham. That is our promise by God Himself!!
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
399
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Here is Jesus on the law. Also references to the law scattered through the Torah.

Matthew 5 AMPC
17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.
19 Whoever then breaks or does away with or relaxes one of the least [important] of these commandments and teaches men so shall be called least [important] in the kingdom of heaven, but he who practices them and teaches others to do so shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
http://www.gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html

Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
 
Nov 23, 2018
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The New Covenant has absolutely nothing to do with the Gospel. Apples and oranges. Both the old and new covenants were(are) for Israel only (Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8:8) and the scripture NEVER says they were for any Gentiles except for those that were part of Israel, such as proselytes or the Gentiles in the Acts church, all of whom are grafted into Israel. Israel ceased to be a nation in 64AD, and there is no indication that any Gentile today has any part in the New Covenant.

The only purpose of the New Covenant will be to put the Law in the inward parts of the Jews so they will be able to keep the Law and love doing it. Since today's Gentiles are under Pure Grace, they have no part in the Law and never will have. The only scripture today TO and ABOUT us Gentiles are the 7 books Paul wrote after Acts. Nothing in the other 59 ALL-ISRAEL books are TO us or ABOUT us today. The 59 Jewish books are invaluable FOR our learning, but we will find nothing in them ABOUT our Hope, our Calling, or ANYTHING about our future.

God has ALWAYS treated Israel 100% differently than He treats Gentiles. Except for Christ, NOTHING ever given to Israel was given to Gentiles under PURE GRACE. The only time in the future where we Gentiles will have ANY ASSOCIATION with Israel is when God becomes ALL in ALL
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
399
83
The New Covenant has absolutely nothing to do with the Gospel. Apples and oranges. Both the old and new covenants were(are) for Israel only (Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8:8) and the scripture NEVER says they were for any Gentiles except for those that were part of Israel, such as proselytes or the Gentiles in the Acts church, all of whom are grafted into Israel. Israel ceased to be a nation in 64AD, and there is no indication that any Gentile today has any part in the New Covenant.

The only purpose of the New Covenant will be to put the Law in the inward parts of the Jews so they will be able to keep the Law and love doing it. Since today's Gentiles are under Pure Grace, they have no part in the Law and never will have. The only scripture today TO and ABOUT us Gentiles are the 7 books Paul wrote after Acts. Nothing in the other 59 ALL-ISRAEL books are TO us or ABOUT us today. The 59 Jewish books are invaluable FOR our learning, but we will find nothing in them ABOUT our Hope, our Calling, or ANYTHING about our future.

God has ALWAYS treated Israel 100% differently than He treats Gentiles. Except for Christ, NOTHING ever given to Israel was given to Gentiles under PURE GRACE. The only time in the future where we Gentiles will have ANY ASSOCIATION with Israel is when God becomes ALL in ALL
I posted the laws contained in the Torah. I suggest you browse through them. There are divisions in the law. Here is an explanation from one of the sites listed.
_______________
The 613 mitzvot have been divided also into three general categories: mishpatim; edot; and chukim. Mishpatim ("laws") include commandments that are deemed to be self-evident, such as not to murder and not to steal. Edot ("testimonies") commemorate important events in Jewish history. For example, the Shabbat is said to testify to the story that Hashem created the world in six days and rested on the seventh day and declared it holy. Chukim ("decrees") are commandments with no known rationale, and are perceived as pure manifestations of the Divine will.[4]

Many of the mitzvot cannot be observed now, following the destruction of the Second Temple, although they still retain religious significance. According to one standard reckoning,[5] there are 77 positive and 194 negative commandments that can be observed today, of which there are 26 commands that apply only within the Land of Israel.[6] Furthermore, there are some time-related commandments from which women are exempt (examples include shofar, sukkah, lulav, tzitzit and tefillin).[7] Some depend on the special status of a person in Judaism (such as kohanim), while others apply only to men or only to women.
 
Nov 23, 2018
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Same covenant (Gospel) for everyone.
Christ is in the Heart and mouth. The Word is in the Heart and mouth. You Can't have one without the other but they are not the Same. The Word is Part of Christ but Christ is not part of the Word. The Word mentioned by Paul in Romans 10:6-8 To the Jew/Gentile Church in Rome is a paraphrase of Deut 30:10-14 and is in reference to the Book of the Law. This is seen in Deut. 30:10 when one keeps everything into context. Verse 10 says, "the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law".
By Paul Paraphrasing Deut. 30:11-14 he through GOD is drawing a parallel between what is stated in Deut. 30:10-14 and what He is talking about in Romans. We are saved by the Faith. Christ; through which the Word is to be in our hearts and mouths; this is the faith in which we speak

For God It was never about doing the written law. His intent in us has always been the Faith that worketh love through the heart through HIS Spirit; who we are in and through HIM. The following text show this connection between the Old Testament and New. The verses in Romans 10:6-8; Deut. 30:11-14 ; Hebrews 8:10,11; Jeremiah 31:33 are all speaking of GOD's gift of enabling us through HIS Spirit to be as HE would have us be. They are all speaking the same just worded different. Please notice that this gift which is the Good News; the Gospel was availed to us from the beginning of Moses ministry if not even from the time of the fall in Eden. Romans paraphrasing the text found in Deut. 30:11-14 Prove this.

Romans 10:6-8,4; Heb 8:10,11 For GOD has said, "Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (That is, to bring Christ, (the Word, all that GOD would have us be. HIS Commandments) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (That is, to bring up Christ, (the Word, all that GOD would have us be. HIS Commandments) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ; the Word, the commandments manifested in the flesh, our flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, in thy heart, and in thy hand: that we may do it; that is, THE WORD OF FAITH, which we preach. And that is the Gospel, the Kingdom of GOD (CHRIST) in you. For GOD hath said, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them." And HE shall be our GOD and we shall be HIS people, for it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. Christ (the Word, His Commandments, GOD's will) in us the hope of Glory. For Christ (through which the Word is in the heart and mouth) is the end of the law (written on stone and in the Book) for righteousness for all that believe. This is the Faith in which we preach. And without this faith it is impossible to please GOD.
That's all great, but NONE of it applies TO us or ABOUT us today. If you want scripture that is TO us and ABOUT us today, the ONLY place you'll find it is in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles - Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, Philemon. The other 59 books are ALL-Israel and NOTHING that applies to Israel applies to us Gentiles today.

Proof of this is in the Callings. In the ALL-Israel 59 books, no Jew EVER had a chance of going to Heaven. Israel are an earthly people and they will inherit the New Earth and will be the only occupants of the New Jerusalem, which IS NOT HEAVEN. Each tribe has its own gate - there is no Gentile gate. It comes down out of the created New (starry) Heaven and attaches to the New Earth.\

On the other hand, the Hope of us Gentiles is to live where God lives, in the uncreated Heavenly places, where Christ sits at the right hand of God - Eph 1:20. This is where Christ ascended to and Eph 2:6 is where we will be - the same place.

When the Callings are different, EVERYTHING is Different. God is our Father, not Abraham. The word "Abraham" doesn't even appear once in Paul's last 7 epistles.

So, the bottom line is that Israel are an earthly people and we Gentiles are a Heavenly people.
Col 3:1-4
1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above,
not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.


We are to ignore things of the Earth, which includes EVERYTHING associated with earthly Israel
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
399
83
Your assertion is in
That's all great, but NONE of it applies TO us or ABOUT us today. If you want scripture that is TO us and ABOUT us today, the ONLY place you'll find it is in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles - Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, Philemon. The other 59 books are ALL-Israel and NOTHING that applies to Israel applies to us Gentiles today.

Proof of this is in the Callings. In the ALL-Israel 59 books, no Jew EVER had a chance of going to Heaven. Israel are an earthly people and they will inherit the New Earth and will be the only occupants of the New Jerusalem, which IS NOT HEAVEN. Each tribe has its own gate - there is no Gentile gate. It comes down out of the created New (starry) Heaven and attaches to the New Earth.\

On the other hand, the Hope of us Gentiles is to live where God lives, in the uncreated Heavenly places, where Christ sits at the right hand of God - Eph 1:20. This is where Christ ascended to and Eph 2:6 is where we will be - the same place.

When the Callings are different, EVERYTHING is Different. God is our Father, not Abraham. The word "Abraham" doesn't even appear once in Paul's last 7 epistles.

So, the bottom line is that Israel are an earthly people and we Gentiles are a Heavenly people.
Col 3:1-4
1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above,
not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.


We are to ignore things of the Earth, which includes EVERYTHING associated with earthly Israel
Your assertion is invalid since ALL scripture is for all of us. It is the Word of God to us to provide information we need to know!!
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
113
55
HBG. Pa. USA
Same covenant (Gospel) for everyone.
Christ is in the Heart and mouth. The Word is in the Heart and mouth. You Can't have one without the other but they are not the Same. The Word is Part of Christ but Christ is not part of the Word. The Word mentioned by Paul in Romans 10:6-8 To the Jew/Gentile Church in Rome is a paraphrase of Deut 30:10-14 and is in reference to the Book of the Law. This is seen in Deut. 30:10 when one keeps everything into context. Verse 10 says, "the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law".
By Paul Paraphrasing Deut. 30:11-14 he through GOD is drawing a parallel between what is stated in Deut. 30:10-14 and what He is talking about in Romans. We are saved by the Faith. Christ; through which the Word is to be in our hearts and mouths; this is the faith in which we speak

For God It was never about doing the written law. His intent in us has always been the Faith that worketh love through the heart through HIS Spirit; who we are in and through HIM. The following text show this connection between the Old Testament and New. The verses in Romans 10:6-8; Deut. 30:11-14 ; Hebrews 8:10,11; Jeremiah 31:33 are all speaking of GOD's gift of enabling us through HIS Spirit to be as HE would have us be. They are all speaking the same just worded different. Please notice that this gift which is the Good News; the Gospel was availed to us from the beginning of Moses ministry if not even from the time of the fall in Eden. Romans paraphrasing the text found in Deut. 30:11-14 Prove this.

Romans 10:6-8,4; Heb 8:10,11 For GOD has said, "Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (That is, to bring Christ, (the Word, all that GOD would have us be. HIS Commandments) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (That is, to bring up Christ, (the Word, all that GOD would have us be. HIS Commandments) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ; the Word, the commandments manifested in the flesh, our flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, in thy heart, and in thy hand: that we may do it; that is, THE WORD OF FAITH, which we preach. And that is the Gospel, the Kingdom of GOD (CHRIST) in you. For GOD hath said, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them." And HE shall be our GOD and we shall be HIS people, for it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. Christ (the Word, His Commandments, GOD's will) in us the hope of Glory. For Christ (through which the Word is in the heart and mouth) is the end of the law (written on stone and in the Book) for righteousness for all that believe. This is the Faith in which we preach. And without this faith it is impossible to please GOD.
That's all great, but NONE of it applies TO us or ABOUT us today.
Sure it does
Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.5 14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise. 15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

One can clearly see through the Spirit of GOD that Romans definitely applies to us. For it addresses Jew and us Gentiles specifically.

Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? .....That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law.
(Rom 9:24-33)


Same Gospel for everyone. Christ in us, the Hope of Glory. The Author and finisher of our Faith. Faith; what is this Faith in which we speak?

Christ is in the Heart and mouth. The Word is in the Heart and mouth. You Can't have one without the other but they are not the Same. The Word is Part of Christ but Christ is not part of the Word. The Word mentioned by Paul in Romans 10:6-8 To the Jew/Gentile Church in Rome is a paraphrase of Deut 30:10-14 and is in reference to the Book of the Law. This is seen in Deut. 30:10 when one keeps everything into context. Verse 10 says, "the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law".
By Paul Paraphrasing Deut. 30:11-14 he through GOD is drawing a parallel between what is stated in Deut. 30:10-14 and what He is talking about in Romans. We are saved by the Faith. Christ; through which the Word is to be in our hearts and mouths; this is the faith in which we speak

For God It was never about doing the written law. His intent in us has always been the Faith that worketh love through the heart through HIS Spirit; who we are in and through HIM. The following text show this connection between the Old Testament and New. The verses in Romans 10:6-8; Deut. 30:11-14 ; Hebrews 8:10,11; Jeremiah 31:33 are all speaking of GOD's gift of enabling us through HIS Spirit to be as HE would have us be. They are all speaking the same just worded different. Please notice that this gift which is the Good News; the Gospel was availed to us from the beginning of Moses ministry if not even from the time of the fall in Eden. Romans paraphrasing the text found in Deut. 30:11-14 Prove this.

Romans 10:6-8,4; Heb 8:10,11 For GOD has said, "Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (That is, to bring Christ, (the Word, all that GOD would have us be. HIS Commandments) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (That is, to bring up Christ, (the Word, all that GOD would have us be. HIS Commandments) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ; the Word, the commandments manifested in the flesh, our flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, in thy heart, and in thy hand: that we may do it; that is, THE WORD OF FAITH, which we preach. And that is the Gospel, the Kingdom of GOD (CHRIST) in you. For GOD hath said, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them." And HE shall be our GOD and we shall be HIS people, for it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. Christ (the Word, His Commandments, GOD's will) in us the hope of Glory. For Christ (through which the Word is in the heart and mouth) is the end of the law (written on stone and in the Book) for righteousness for all that believe. This is the Faith in which we preach. And without this faith it is impossible to please GOD.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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Here is Paul lamenting about his inability to live free of sin.

Romans 7 NIV
7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
Chapter seven is Paul's testimony of His Life prior to Christ! Chapter seven's context continues into eight. Where Paul proclaims in verse two of His deliverance from the Law of sin and death which he claimed to be in in service to through his flesh in verse 7:23, 25.

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
(Rom 7:22-25)

Chapter seven's use of the word mind is dealing with head knowledge; knowing the law and desiring to serve it because you know it is good and makes sense to you to do so.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(Rom 8:1-4)
 

Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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Chapter seven is Paul's testimony of His Life prior to Christ! Chapter seven's context continues into eight. Where Paul proclaims in verse two of His deliverance from the Law of sin and death which he claimed to be in in service to through his flesh in verse 7:23, 25.

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
(Rom 7:22-25)

Chapter seven's use of the word mind is dealing with head knowledge; knowing the law and desiring to serve it because you know it is good and makes sense to you to do so.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(Rom 8:1-4)
You misreed what Paul is saying. It is the issue all Christians face. We all sin and come short of the glory of God. Who on this board will say they live a sin free life? In our minds we want to live a pure life but fail. Therefore in order to have salvation we need the grace of God through faith in Jesus. If you read this section of scripture you will see that Paul is talking about the dual nature in all Christians. Our hearts want to follow God but the power of temptation overcomes us and we fall into sin. Therefore as he ends this section of scripture we must thank God for delivering us from the penalty of our sins by grace through faith in Jesus!

In trying to make it something else you imply you are able to live a sin free life. Is that what you are claiming?
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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You misreed what Paul is saying. ?
No I read it context to the surrounding chapters.
Chapter seven's context continues into eight. Paul proclaims in verse two of chapter eight His deliverance from the Law of sin and death which he claimed to be in in service to through his flesh in verse 7:23, 25.

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
(Rom 7:22-25)

Chapter seven's use of the word mind is dealing with head knowledge; knowing the law and desiring to serve it because you know it is good and makes sense to you to do so is did not work for Paul nor will it work for us. The only way is Jesus Christ.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(Rom 8:1-4)

Paul claims he had been Made me free from the law of sin and death. No longer in captivity to the Law of sin which which is in His members. HE HAS BEEN MADE FREE! That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. (Rom 8:2-4; 6:6,7)

Se free from the Law of sin and death. Our old man crucified with with HIM that the Body of Sin be destroyed. That Hence forth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin through Jesus Christ. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
(1Pe 2:24 KJV)
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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I’m not sure why you feel that way.

After adam sinned the law was added because of Adams transgression,somebody might ask,what does the law was added mean.

Mankind would need to know what GODs perfect standard of righteousness (the law)was so that he could know what to do or not do.
Just a couple of questions about these statements. If there was no "LAW" before Adam, then how could he sin? I think you are referring to Galatians where Paul said "The Law was Added because of Transgressions". But if one reads Galatians 3.

Gal. 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Paul is speaking of a "LAW" that was added 430 years after Abraham. If there was "NO LAW" before this, then how was Sodom judged, those in Noah's time. Why was Cain punished? Egypt punished? What about Gen. 26:5?

I know the answer to these questions. The "LAW" that was Added 430 years after Abraham that the Jews were still pushing on the Galatians was the "Levitical Priesthood" and their version of it's "Works and Deeds of the Law" for the cleansing of sins.

I agree with your statement: "Mankind would need to know what GODs perfect standard of righteousness (the law)was so that he could know what to do or not do."

I don't agree that God waited until Moses, after He had already punished thousands for "Sinning" which by the very definition of the word proves God's Laws existed from the beginning.

But the Levitical Priesthood covenant God made with Israel at Mt. Sinai, Abraham didn't have, and neither did Adam. Levi wasn't even born until centuries later.

satan has infiltrated religion and has promoted confusion where these things are concerned.