Have you believed the false grace message?

[wsblind]

Now this is the dividing line. Either you want this or you do not. Christ is saying He can deliver
this in your life. I am testifying to this being true. It appears to me for different reasons people
are in rebellion against this and believe it is a lie of the enemy.

I wish you could understand us Peter. We want this. Heck, I GOT(a good life,love God, want to walk in His ways) this. And I would suspect that most people here who "argue" have GOT it to.

It is our motive,our motive,our motive that God sees and counts. Not the fact that we live like this. Most of us here have pretty much overtly cleaned up our lives and want to walk in His ways.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Amen. People are supposed to be able to tell we are abiding in Him by how well we love our brothers and sisters in Christ. When I look at some of the dialogue here, all I see is self love.

I cannot give credit for this quote because I don't remember the man who said it, but one of you will probably know -
How we treat someone at their worst shows how well love is working in us.

 

[PeterJens]

This last comment is rude, It is evil, and it is the root of all of why no one can have any conversation with you. You think everyone is out to attack you, Not that people care honestly wanting to know what you believe or care for your soul

I do not know what your main problem is, But you need to repent Peter. All you had to do was answer. this is nonsense.

I should have known better. "It is evil" "need to repent" "nonsense"

I can say no more. Whatever I say it will go through the legalist mill to try and spin something
else out, and it the end I will have done something evil or said it.

Now EG believes I am a lost soul trying to prove myself to God. I need to stop trying to prove
myself to God, and accept the cross and Christs sacrifice on it.

At what point does someone accept they 100% understand the proposition and are walking in
Christ, yet the real issue is the other party do not believe you can walk righteously.
And if you do you must be a legalist etc. so the cycle follows.

I wonder if the belief in security and no effort, leads one to believe there is no point walking
righteously or even seeking the Lord, on such an issue.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

so are they saved or not? Do they lose salvation if they do not give up every area of their life?

Why do you want to be the one who declares or judges what is Gods' to judge?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why do you want to be the one who declares or judges what is Gods' to judge?

I have never judged,, But people in here have judged,,

Thats why I asked you. Would you judge them as unsaved or not?

 

[PeterJens]

I wish you could understand us Peter. We want this. Heck, I GOT(a good life,love God, want to walk in His ways) this. And I would suspect that most people here who "argue" have GOT it to.

It is our motive,our motive,our motive that God sees and counts. Not the fact that we live like this. Most of us here have pretty much overtly cleaned up our lives and want to walk in His ways.

Amen. Individuals here vary a lot, and their beliefs though they share a lot of common
points of view.

And my motive to follow God is love. Now each person here can only declare what their
reason is from the inside. It does help to confess it, because that turns an intellectual
assent into something declared.

And how much people have cleaned up their lives is their issue, but it is obvious this
varies a lot. And brother I have never said I am different from you, quite the opposite.

My brothers and sisters love Christ and I love them. We are one in heart, mind and soul.
Now a few will always polarise and create division and distraction, and say this issue is sooooo
important, the whole world depends upon it. God bless you all, Amen.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am perceiving that by salvation, you mean eternal life?

They are one and the same,

So then if that is correct, then I would say a branch that does not abide will die because the life is not in the branch unless it remains in the vine. If it remains attached to the vine, it will not die. The branch does not receive or keep its' life if it does not remain on the vine. The branch cannot say, I have eternal life apart from remaining attached to the vine. Well...the branch could SAY that, but of course it would be false.

A branch not attached will not bear fruit.. When this happens the vine dresser lifts is up and prunes it..

The branch has eternal life, Because God said it does.. Not because the branch said it did, It has nothing to do with the branch.

So no, I would not say that "one can lose eternal life if they stop working" because they do not live by working but by abiding.

Work produces fruit, if you do not work, you will not produce fruit.And this happens when we abide in the vine, so the vine can give us the life blood and power to do those works.

but this has nothing to do with weather or not someone has eternal life or not.. does it?

Is eternal life based on faith or works?

 

[PeterJens]

I wish you could understand us Peter. We want this. Heck, I GOT(a good life,love God, want to walk in His ways) this. And I would suspect that most people here who "argue" have GOT it to.

It is our motive,our motive,our motive that God sees and counts. Not the fact that we live like this. Most of us here have pretty much overtly cleaned up our lives and want to walk in His ways.

Can I just say also Amen.

Strange people often want to come among Gods people and point out things
that are terrible and the solution, when we all have Christ and His words to
follow. Now call people to listen, believe and follow those, then Amen, we
are one with Christ.

bdf was meant to be about seeing more of Christ in His word, and then spuring
each other on to good works. I hope and pray we can actually achieve this.

 

[PeterJens]

Is eternal life based on faith or works?

We are no longer strangers to each other so we all have given answers to
this question.

Dear Lord, bring the peace of your presence in out hearts and the discernment
of those wishing to bring division among your people for no good reason,
In Jesus Name, Amen

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen. Individuals here vary a lot, and their beliefs though they share a lot of common
points of view.

And my motive to follow God is love. Now each person here can only declare what their
reason is from the inside. It does help to confess it, because that turns an intellectual
assent into something declared.

And how much people have cleaned up their lives is their issue, but it is obvious this
varies a lot. And brother I have never said I am different from you, quite the opposite.

My brothers and sisters love Christ and I love them. We are one in heart, mind and soul.
Now a few will always polarise and create division and distraction, and say this issue is sooooo
important, the whole world depends upon it. God bless you all, Amen.

I love because God first loved and saved me eternally

It is not my love, My love is powerless, It is gods love, overflowing in me, and making me desire to serve others..

We must be careful in saying other people do not love God, and we also must understand what kind of love they are talking about..

 

[PennEd]

EG - this has never been an argument, it is an experience, God finding us.

When you find you love someone, you do not ask, do I love them or have I created
this love to prove I love them. Do I buy flowers or want to spend time with them
because I want to prove something is happening or it has happened?

Whatever you or I do, we are lost if we do not love Christ, and no one can imagine
or make up this love. You either do love Him or you do not. And I love Christ.

Your thoughts used to be very obviously out of whack with the Gospel. You have gotten MUCH better at disguising a false Gospel. You seem to always have a portion of Truth with juuuust a dash of UN-truth that negates much of the real Truth you profess.

It is fantastic that you love Jesus, but this post of yours implies that it's YOUR love towards HIM that saves you.

We are LOST if we do not believe the one true Gospel: That God wrapped Himself in Flesh in the form of His Son, Jesus Christ. That He was born of a woman, conceived of the Holy Spirit, suffered, was crucified, died, and rose again to life on the 3rd day, according to the Scriptures.

Believe THAT Gospel and you WILL be saved! Period, end of story. YOU loving Him will become a byproduct of accepting Him, but it has NOTHING to do with what He did, and who He is, and your Salvation.

 

[PeterJens]

Your thoughts used to be very obviously out of whack with the Gospel. You have gotten MUCH better at disguising a false Gospel. You seem to always have a portion of Truth with juuuust a dash of UN-truth that negates much of the real Truth you profess.

It is fantastic that you love Jesus, but this post of yours implies that it's YOUR love towards HIM that saves you.

Thankyou for this uplifting affirmation of my love of Christ.
It warms my heart that you regard me is such a positive light as a brother
in Christ, walking as part of the family into the heavenlies.

God bless you, Ed.

 

[valiant]

We are no longer strangers to each other so we all have given answers to
this question.

Dear Lord, bring the peace of your presence in out hearts and the discernment
of those wishing to bring division among your people for no good reason,
In Jesus Name, Amen

sounds as though you are praying for yourself ?

 

[FreeNChrist]

That's the insidiousness of pride, it so often fools us by masquerading as humbleness and humility.

 

[PeterJens]

sounds as though you are praying for yourself ?

A prayer is a request to God, the creator of all, to bring peace into our hearts to
know who has saved us and secured us in the heavenlies.

Maybe you do not need to have peace from the Lord, but I do believe all of us
need this reassurance from Him, including myself.

 

[PeterJens]

Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”
Luke 23:34

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your thoughts used to be very obviously out of whack with the Gospel. You have gotten MUCH better at disguising a false Gospel. You seem to always have a portion of Truth with juuuust a dash of UN-truth that negates much of the real Truth you profess.

It is fantastic that you love Jesus, but this post of yours implies that it's YOUR love towards HIM that saves you.

We are LOST if we do not believe the one true Gospel: That God wrapped Himself in Flesh in the form of His Son, Jesus Christ. That He was born of a woman, conceived of the Holy Spirit, suffered, was crucified, died, and rose again to life on the 3rd day, according to the Scriptures.

Believe THAT Gospel and you WILL be saved! Period, end of story. YOU loving Him will become a byproduct of accepting Him, but it has NOTHING to do with what He did, and who He is, and your Salvation.

that is interesting, I did not see that.

We are saved BECAUSE we love God.

I heard we love BECAUSE we are saved (God loved us first)

how simple wording can so change the meaning..

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Why do you always want to answer him?

What does the works of the law have to do with anything, I never asked about them, I asked 2 plain simple questions.

And i never asked about abiding, I asked about a person who stops doing works..

When I say works, I mean any work, A work is something you do, a work of righteousness would be a good deed something that God would do (serving others) ..A work of evil would be a bad work, something you do for self (carnal)

Why is it so hard for him to answer?

and why do I keep asking?

1. He keeps saying we slander him
2. People like you keep saying we misrepresent him
3. People say we believe the same, just word it different.

My goal is to get rid of the confusion and set things straight, It will not happen UNTIL HE ANSWERS and explains WHY..

So...your question is:if a person stops being nice and is never nice again, and never does anything kind to or for someone else, but instead is always doing mean and selfish things, will they lose eternal life...? I'm not sure what you're asking. I don't believe eternal life is in doing nice things but is in HIM and abiding in Him...and you seem to want to get me to say that a nasty, unkind person who does everything out of consideration of self has eternal life..and I can't figure out why you would want someone to say that...

There is no saved status apart from abiding. If we abide we don't sin. When we don't abide, we sin.
I can be as nice as pie, but if I don't abide in Him, I don't have eternal life. And if I abide in Him, I'm not going to be nasty and selfish because that is not what He is like. So I will grow more and more like Him as I abide. I will improve and grow in the virtues.

I think the confusion comes at trying to grasp for a saved status apart from abiding. To own a saved status for yourself instead of just abiding so you don't die. It's so much time and energy trying to possess for self what is only in Him and abiding in Him. You seem to think others make it all about works and yet to me it looks like you are the one who always makes it about works because it is what you always talk about. You want some assurance that you will live eternally that involves long and bitter conversations about how it is yours forever no matter what you do or do not do and it always is a conversation about works and hammering on works and insisting all must agree that there is eternal life no matter what one does or doesn't do, abide or not abide, improve in virtue or not ever improve at all, and it just makes me so tired for you.

I think you should stop worrying about having everyone agree with you and just abide so you don't die. If all of this energy was put into abiding more and more instead of a courtroom of cross examination of everyone to make sure they agree you can be nasty as all get out and you will live eternally nevertheless, you would be teaching us so many wonderful things by now!

You HAVE to be exhausted with this by now...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi my friend......I like this post however, I will have to disagree on one point.

It has been said that once you are saved, you are saved forever. you can only lose your rewards given out in the Bema Seat.

In fact, Jesus tells use through John 10:28..." And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."

I agree with you here in that no man shall take salvation away from them.
Having said that, I believe IF,,IF,,IF one turns away by their own volition from Jesus Christ to the "Other Gospel", I think it is very clear that they may just lose their salvation.

Galatians 5:1-4...

1.Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that[COLOR="#[B]006400[/B]"]if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."


The allusion to this situation where one can lose their salvation is in the 1st verse of the Chapter. "AGAIN", tells us that at least some of these Galatians had been at one time subject and/or was following the "other Gospel". Along comes Paul and converts them to Christianity and they are saved. Some time later Paul returns and finds that at least some of them have fallen off of the wagon and "AGAIN" have turned to the "Other Gospel". Here Paul tells them in Verse 4 that if they turn their ways from the teaching of Jesus Christ to the teachings of the "Other Gospel", they will lose their salvation..by way of "ye are fallen from Grace" . Even if in verse 2, Paul tells them IF you do this, Christ shall have NOTHING for you.

Saying you can walk away is no different than saying God made a mistake to begin with.

God knew you before you came to him, He knew you life from beginning to end, He did not save you, Give you his precious gift, The seal of his Holy Spirit. the promise of eternal life.

Then one day in the future have to relent because he did not know you would change your mind and walk away..

plus the only people who walk away as john said, were never of us, if they had been they never would have left.

No one leaves jesus, because jesus NEVER GIVES US A REASON TO.

 

[zone]

1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.