Hebrews 6:4-6 - not at it seems...
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Here is all of Hebrews 6:4-6
is it speaking of someone who was saved and then fell away???
Hebrews 6:4-6New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,[SUP]5 [/SUP]who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age [SUP]6 [/SUP]and who have fallen[SUP][a][/SUP] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
Hebrews 6:4-6New American Standard Bible (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6[/SUP]and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, [SUP][a][/SUP]since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
PARTAKE:
1. Eat or drink some. Take some.
2. Take or have a share.
3. Have to some extent the nature or character of.
So, if you partake of a cake, you EAT some of the cake.
If you partake of the Holy Spirit, you ABSORB some of the Holy Spirit.
NON-BELIEVERS do NOT partake of the Holy Spirit.
Fran
is it speaking of someone who was saved and then fell away???
Hebrews 6:4-6New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,[SUP]5 [/SUP]who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age [SUP]6 [/SUP]and who have fallen[SUP][a][/SUP] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
Hebrews 6:4-6New American Standard Bible (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6[/SUP]and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, [SUP][a][/SUP]since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
PARTAKE:
1. Eat or drink some. Take some.
2. Take or have a share.
3. Have to some extent the nature or character of.
So, if you partake of a cake, you EAT some of the cake.
If you partake of the Holy Spirit, you ABSORB some of the Holy Spirit.
NON-BELIEVERS do NOT partake of the Holy Spirit.
Fran
E
try to read it as it is written. Your highlighting a few words which are not context..
what is impossible?
if someone falls away, to renew them again to repentance, ofr they crucify for themselves the son of God.
You can not use this passage to declare one can lose salvation, unless you agree with the author that if salvation is lost. it is lost forever and can never be renewed.
The context is people who have left the law. Come to church, and stayed for awhile. having because of that alone, tasted the work of the HS., partook in his blessings, and been enlightened to the truth of God. only to return to the law..
it never said they were saved. and that fact they returned to what they really had faith in proves they never trusted God.
The Holy Spirit might convict a sinner of his sinfulness. Is this what you are thinking? If not, then I have no idea where you are coming from.
(2Cor 6:15 [KJV])
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
There is no communion between light and darkness.
(2Cor 6:15 [KJV])
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
There is no communion between light and darkness.
E
a person who surrounds his or her self with believers who are fellowship in love also experiences that love.
They are exposed (enlightened)to truth. Exposed to Gods love, and taste the gifts of the spirit in the church.
it does not mean they were ever saved..
This actually it what draws many to Christ, and allows the HS to work on them, and many because of this get saved.
sadly, some return to what they really want. some to the world. Some back to religion (as in heb 6, where jews were returning back to law)
this is what I am talking about. does it make more sense? sorry if I confused you
They are exposed (enlightened)to truth. Exposed to Gods love, and taste the gifts of the spirit in the church.
it does not mean they were ever saved..
This actually it what draws many to Christ, and allows the HS to work on them, and many because of this get saved.
sadly, some return to what they really want. some to the world. Some back to religion (as in heb 6, where jews were returning back to law)
this is what I am talking about. does it make more sense? sorry if I confused you
They were never saved.
They never trusted God.
They have left the Law.
They came to church for a while.
Then they returned to the law.
I can't use this passage... Yes I can. Do you know anyone who believed and then left and hated God and then came back to Him? There aren't too many...
And silly me. I thought I understood English. It seems to be plain and simple here.
If you like believing in eternal security because it suits you for some reason that I personally do not understand, well, so be it.
I just hope new Christians reading along don't get the idea they could be born again and decide one day to maybe go on a killing spree and STILL BE SAVED. Because I think at that point they would no longer have any FAITH.
YOU HAVE FAITH .... YOU'RE SAVED
YOU DON'T HAVE FAITH.... YOU'RE NOT SAVED
NO MATTER WHEN THE "HAVING NO FAITH" HAPPENS.
Also, I'm underlining because you seem to be missing IMPORTANT parts of the verses.
CONTEXT. Have you read the entire New Testament?
Did you notice Jesus telling you how you have to BECOME? To be born from on high, I mean. John 3.
So one day you decide you DON'T WANT to be how Jesus said you have to BECOME, like in Mathew 5:3-10 for instance,
But, according to you, you would still be saved?
Sounds to me like Jesus wasn't too sure of what He was talking about. Or maybe He didn't really mean it.
I guess YOU are right and HE was wrong.
Also, did you notice how the other writers, Paul, Peter, James, begged you to hold on to your faith, to not let go, to resist TILL THE END, to fight the good fight, to resist evil, to NOT FALL AWAY?
Why do you suppose they begged you? Just to waste their breath?
It took Mr. Calvin till 1,500 to decide one couldn't lose their salvation. Do you think every other theologian in history was an idiot?
You believe what you want to. You'll be judged on what you know and believe in your heart,
I hope new Christians reading along will read the entire New Testament as a book, and not as verses to be twisted to one's liking, and come up with the proper interpretation.
Love Jesus and follow His ways... You're safe.
Don't love Jesus and don't follow His ways.... You're in danger.
Fran
They never trusted God.
They have left the Law.
They came to church for a while.
Then they returned to the law.
I can't use this passage... Yes I can. Do you know anyone who believed and then left and hated God and then came back to Him? There aren't too many...
And silly me. I thought I understood English. It seems to be plain and simple here.
If you like believing in eternal security because it suits you for some reason that I personally do not understand, well, so be it.
I just hope new Christians reading along don't get the idea they could be born again and decide one day to maybe go on a killing spree and STILL BE SAVED. Because I think at that point they would no longer have any FAITH.
YOU HAVE FAITH .... YOU'RE SAVED
YOU DON'T HAVE FAITH.... YOU'RE NOT SAVED
NO MATTER WHEN THE "HAVING NO FAITH" HAPPENS.
Also, I'm underlining because you seem to be missing IMPORTANT parts of the verses.
CONTEXT. Have you read the entire New Testament?
Did you notice Jesus telling you how you have to BECOME? To be born from on high, I mean. John 3.
So one day you decide you DON'T WANT to be how Jesus said you have to BECOME, like in Mathew 5:3-10 for instance,
But, according to you, you would still be saved?
Sounds to me like Jesus wasn't too sure of what He was talking about. Or maybe He didn't really mean it.
I guess YOU are right and HE was wrong.
Also, did you notice how the other writers, Paul, Peter, James, begged you to hold on to your faith, to not let go, to resist TILL THE END, to fight the good fight, to resist evil, to NOT FALL AWAY?
Why do you suppose they begged you? Just to waste their breath?
It took Mr. Calvin till 1,500 to decide one couldn't lose their salvation. Do you think every other theologian in history was an idiot?
You believe what you want to. You'll be judged on what you know and believe in your heart,
I hope new Christians reading along will read the entire New Testament as a book, and not as verses to be twisted to one's liking, and come up with the proper interpretation.
Love Jesus and follow His ways... You're safe.
Don't love Jesus and don't follow His ways.... You're in danger.
Fran
E
Poor king david. how so many people forget he did this very thing, yet God still loved him and never took his salvation from him.
What does going on a killing spree have to do with someone saying they want nothing to do with God? It seems you went from one extreme to the next. and they do not relate to each other..
ps.. That is what the passage says, If you disagree thats fine, But that is what it says.
That is what God says..
If you have TRUE LIVING FAITH in god. you will never leave, because God will never let you down.
Only those who lack faith leave.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
Your argument is with God not me.
if we become faithless, he remains faithful, he can not deny himself. 2 tim 2: 13
again, your argument is with God. not me.
many times, and the new testament is in agreement, Salvation is eternal. sealed by the spirit. Not by works.. and forever.
if you want to save yourself. Good luck.
Me, I will continue to preach Gods truth. and tell people to trust in God to save them, he is able to save completely that which was lost. he has perfected FOREVER those he is in the process of sanctifying.
I will not teach a baby he can lose salvation. that baby would have no hope.
Hi Oysters, hope you're having a good evening!
So I posted this earlier today in a different thread:
There are 2 elements to Salvation. Confession (A need for a Savior, recognition that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, and Lord of ALL). AND Belief (believing in your heart that Jesus is raised from the dead 3 days after His crucifixion according to the Scriptures). Some confess but don't believe. Some believe but don't confess. If both elements are present in a Christian then I believe they are saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit.
WE can only judge the confession, NOT the belief.
This is why love is so important. We don't know what people truly believe in their hearts. If they are saved, then they are our brothers and sisters in Christ and we must love them. If they are not, then the love we show them may be the instrument God uses to bring them to Him.
So I posted this earlier today in a different thread:
There are 2 elements to Salvation. Confession (A need for a Savior, recognition that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, and Lord of ALL). AND Belief (believing in your heart that Jesus is raised from the dead 3 days after His crucifixion according to the Scriptures). Some confess but don't believe. Some believe but don't confess. If both elements are present in a Christian then I believe they are saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit.
WE can only judge the confession, NOT the belief.
This is why love is so important. We don't know what people truly believe in their hearts. If they are saved, then they are our brothers and sisters in Christ and we must love them. If they are not, then the love we show them may be the instrument God uses to bring them to Him.
E
murder seems to be the go to "sin" of people enslaved by works..
they seem to forget. James said the least of all sins we can commit make us guilty of the law. and worthy of death.
so the murderer is no more worthy of eternal death than the one who knew to do right, but did not do it. even if that sin of ommision was the only sin they commited., They are still just as worthy of hell as the murderer of millions.
this is hard for people to grasp. which is why grace is so difficult to grab on to..
they seem to forget. James said the least of all sins we can commit make us guilty of the law. and worthy of death.
so the murderer is no more worthy of eternal death than the one who knew to do right, but did not do it. even if that sin of ommision was the only sin they commited., They are still just as worthy of hell as the murderer of millions.
this is hard for people to grasp. which is why grace is so difficult to grab on to..
I wish you would not try so hard to demonize everyone who does not agree 100% with you.
There is a perfectly good reason why most of us say we have never lost our salvation. It is because we love Jesus and have the blessed assurance that He loves us. We also love you and have the same appreciation of the atoning power of the blood of Jesus that you do. We have no desire to leave the one we love. We are not involved in any deep, dark conspiracy to deceive and destroy your soul, dcon.
There is a perfectly good reason why most of us say we have never lost our salvation. It is because we love Jesus and have the blessed assurance that He loves us. We also love you and have the same appreciation of the atoning power of the blood of Jesus that you do. We have no desire to leave the one we love. We are not involved in any deep, dark conspiracy to deceive and destroy your soul, dcon.
