HELL

Locutus · Mar 22, 2017

Death in the bible can be both physical death and separation from God in a spiritual sense.

Adam "died" in the day that he ate from the tree - yet he physically lived well past that day:

(Gen 2:17 KJV) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Magenta · Mar 22, 2017

People will make up other things, like saying that the parable of the rich man and
Lazarus cannot be a parable because names are used, a real person is referenced.
WOW!!! Please can somebody, ANYBODY, show me where this rule is written?

Another thing naysayers do is cite one or two verses from the highly symbolic
apocalyptic literature of Revelation to counteract a multitude of Scripture and
REFUSE to deal with the multitude of Scripture that proclaim right from the first
declaration out of the mouth of God about the consequence of sin: DEATH. It is
repeated over and over and over and over again but people say somehow I am
the one ignoring Scripture. Quite frankly it gets ridiculous. Annihilation is a
perfectly legitimate and solidly Scripturally backed view that aligns far more
with the nature of God than everybody's else's hell fire torture and torments.

Man is MORTAL. NOWHERE is man said to be immortal, nowhere is the soul
said the be immortal, Scripture EXPLICITLY states that only God is immortal.
Life is found only through faith in Christ. All else pass into the second death.
God says He never thought about burning people. He abhors the idea!

People want to believe there is going to be some torture chamber in the new
heaven and earth tucked away somewhere. It is one of those things that just
blows my mind, ya know? All things will be made new oh except for over here
we have the oven (lake of fire) to torture and torment those who rejected God.

StanJ · Mar 22, 2017

Magenta said:

Because it is the same mistake all anihilists make. Death refers to the body, not the soul. The soul goes to hell or Paradise. What do you think Jesus was referring to in Luke 16, a spiritual destination or physical destination?
Our bodies never go beyond the grave. The first resurrection is only for believers who will live forever with Jesus the second Resurrection is only for unbelievers. Hell and separation from God is a spiritual thing not a physical thing. The dead exist in a non-corporeal state, but they still exist, as Jesus taught. When Jesus said fear Him who can kill the body and soul he meant in Jewish terms the physical body in the existence of corporeal life.

StanJ · Mar 22, 2017

Magenta said:

I don't see any Scripture here to support your assertions and you also have not addressed the issue of Matthew 25:41 and Revelation 20:10. Together they teach that those who are not of Christ will exist in everlasting torment with the devil and his angels. That existence will be a spiritual one. The Lake of Fire is the second death but only for those who were judged in Rev 20:11-15. Their spirits will be forever bound there with the Devil in eternal punishment.

StanJ · Mar 22, 2017

Locutus said:

Adam died effectually not actually but it's still relates to the body not the spirit.
Gen 2:17
[FONT=&quot]but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will surely die.

[/FONT]The pronouncement of death by God refers to the future or eventuality, not the present or day of the eating.

Ahwatukee · Mar 22, 2017

StanJ said:

Hello StanJ,

Don't be concerned about this, you are correct in that you are believing what the scripture says about eternal punishment. Regarding what Magenta said:

The answer is, if she was thorough in her exegesis, she would merely have to compare other parables in scripture where she would see that, in parables symbolism is always used to represent the literal.

As I am sure that you know, scripture states that for those who worship the beast, his image or receive his mark in the hand or forehead, that the smoke of their torment will rise up forever and ever and they will have no rest day or night. Anyone with any kind of logic would understand that one would have to be existing, conscious and aware, in order to experience the above. For one could not experience those states if they were non-existent. The phrase "everlasting fire" or "eternal fire" what make no sense. Once you throw the last person in, you don't need the fire anymore.

Further more, if one reads the event of the rich man and Lazarus at face value, without forcing it as being parabolic, then it means what it says. There seems to be a spirit of deception in the world and many who claim to be in Christ seem to always be departing from the truth, which is what scripture says would happen in the last days.

The fact that Abraham, Moses, Lazarus, the prophets and the literal place of Hades is used in this event demonstrates that a literal event is in view and not a parable. I believe that she and others are more concerned with protecting their Biblical positions than admitting to the truth of scripture. The only reason to make the rich man and Lazarus into a parable, is because it destroys their belief in annihilation, which the word of God does not support.

None of the words Apollumi, Apoliea and Olethros which are used to describe punishment or destruction for the unrighteous, are defined as annihilation or extinction. What she has done, is taken one of the translated words "destruction" and applied her own meaning to it i.e. annihilation. Yet, we must stick with the original meaning of the word, which is "complete loss of well being, ruination."

Everyone who comes into this world exists forever. Life and Death are both states of conscious existence. A persons decision regarding Christ will determine which state they will spend eternity in.

I wouldn't pull my hair out over this, even though you have scripture on your side. I've gone over the same information with her that you are presenting, but it won't matter, because she doesn't pay any attention to it, not even the actual meanings of the Greek words used. It's like trying to prove scripture to a devout amillennialist or Preterist. They are just going to have to find out the truth of these matters when it is revealed.

StanJ · Mar 22, 2017

Eternal torment proved ... annihilation refuted

samuel23 · Mar 22, 2017

Hi Magenda; Your views are similar to that of the JWs...are you a JWs?

Magenta · Mar 22, 2017

StanJ said:

Not all annihilationists make that mistake which I just told you but you; why do you then choose to repeat your lie? You contradict yourself all over the place, also. The resurrection is physical, Scripture is PLAIN about that. The soul is never said to be immortal which is what you pedal. Scripture explicitly states only God is immortal. Hell is the grave. Hell, translated improperly from the original Hebrew and Greek words Gehenna, Sheol, Hades, and Tartarus, is simply a holding place of the dead until the resurrection and judgement of all, which is physical. Death and hell are eventually thrown into the lake of fire. The second death is the utter destruction of both body and soul.

There are many many many Scriptures that attest to the fact that death is the final everlasting punishment for the person who refuses to accept the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ as a covering for their sin.

The lost perish and are no more.

Strong's concordance word #622 = Perish

apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly
Original Word: ἀπόλλυμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apollumi
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee)
Short Definition: I destroy, lose, am perishing
Definition: (a) I kill, destroy, (b) I lose, mid: I am perishing (the resultant death being viewed as certain).HELPS Word-studies

622 apóllymi (from 575 /apó, "away from," which intensifies ollymi, "to destroy") – properly, fully destroy, cutting off entirely (note the force of the prefix, 575 /apó).

622 /apóllymi ("violently/completely perish") implies permanent (absolute) destruction, i.e. to cancel out (remove); "to die, with the implication of ruin and destruction" (L & N, 1, 23.106); cause to be lost (utterly perish) by experiencing a miserable end.

Matt 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad
that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.

Matthew 10:28
Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but
rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Luke 13:3
I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Here, the Greek word for perish is apoleisthe, which
means to utterly destroy, kill, slay, demolish, make void.

Jesus says that the end for the unrighteous will be the same as for those
in the days of Noah (Luke 17:27), "the flood came and destroyed them all"
(not tortured). And it will be the same as for Sodom (verse 29)
"destroyed them" (not tortured).

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
So a person either receives eternal life, or they perish. Nothing about eternal torment there.

John 5:24, Jesus said
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has
eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift
of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Note: Death, not eternal torment.

1 Corinthians 3:17
If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him,
for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.
Please, note again: Destroy, not torture alive forever.

Galations 6:8
For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption
(phthoran), but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
phthoran: From phtheiro; decay, i.e. Ruin (spontaneous or inflicted, literally or figuratively) -- corruption, destroy, perish. The one who sows to his own flesh reaps destruction, not eternal living torment.

2 Thessalonians 1:9
These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from
the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
Destruction, not eternal living torment. The Greek word is olethron: destruction. From a primary ollumi (to destroy; a prolonged form); ruination, i.e. Death, punishment -- destruction.

Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction,
but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

James 1:15b
and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

James 4:12a
There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the
One who is able to save and to destroy;

2 Peter 3:7
But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for
fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient
toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
All ungodly men will perish unless they repent.

1 John 5:12
He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
If you are not alive you cannot be tormented!

Jude 5
Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.

Revelation 2:11b
He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.
The living and the dead will be judged on the last day. Those in
Christ will not experience the second death. Those not in Christ
will experience a second death. This second death is their destruction.
How can it be any clearer?

Revelation 17:8
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction.
The lake of fire was created for the devil and his angels.

Revelation 20:14-15
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
John interprets this for us: the lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name is not in the book of life, he experiences the second death. This is exactly what it says, death.

Revelation 21:8
“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
They will undergo the second death, which means they are dead!

After the first sin, what was the promised consequence? God said that it was death. God didn't tell them that they would be given eternal life being tormented in hell. If eternal torture in hell is the consequence, it is jarringly missing from any statement by God to Adam and Eve. God even barred Adam and Eve from the garden to prevent them eating from the tree of life and living forever in their state of sin. Paul explains this: Romans 6:23, The wages of sin is death. This is obvious, Paul said what the wages of sin is and it is not to be burned alive forever after you are dead.

Ezekiel 18:4
The soul who sins will die.

Psalm 1:4-6
Not so the wicked!
They are like chaff
that the wind blows away.
Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous.
For the LORD watches over the way of the righteous,
but the way of the wicked leads to destruction.

Psalm 9:5
You have rebuked the nations and destroyed the wicked;
you have blotted out their name for ever and ever.

Psalm 9:6
even the memory of them has perished.

Psalm 34:16
but the face of the LORD is against those who do evil,
to blot out their name from the earth.

Psalm 37:9
For those who are evil will be destroyed,

Psalm 37:20
But the wicked will perish:

Psalm 37:22
those he curses will be destroyed

Psalm 37:28b
Wrongdoers will be completely destroyed

Psalm 37:34
when the wicked are destroyed, you will see it.

Psalm 37:38
But all sinners will be destroyed;
there will be no future for the wicked.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
the dead know nothing

Following the resurrection and judgement of all is when the mortal put on the
immortal, not before. Then too shall the corruptible put on the incorruptible.
See 1 Corinthians 15:54~ Death will be swallowed up in victory.

In fact, Jesus Christ has already overcome death.
Death and Hell will be thrown into the lake of fire.

Magenta · Mar 22, 2017

HADES

Hades in Greek, as sheol in Hebrew, is the general term for the place of the dead. The Greek had another word for "grave" used specifically. This was mnemeion, as in --

"Jesus therefore cometh to the grave -- mnemeion" (John 11:38).

"The graves -- mnemeion -- were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose" (Matt. 27:52).

Hades appears 11 times in the New Testament, and is always translated "hell" except 1 Cor. 15:55, where it is "grave." This is a quotation from Hos. 13:14, where the original is sheol. Acts 2:29-31, where hades is used, is also a quotation from the Old Testament (Psa. 16:10) where the original is sheol.

So it is definitely established that the Holy Spirit uses the word hades as an equivalent for sheol. And the Septuagint (Greek translation of Old Testament) uses the word hades throughout for sheol. So whatever sheol means, so we are to understand hades.

Hades in Greek, has just the same primary meaning as sheol in Hebrew and "hell" in English. It is derived, according to the lexicons, from eidon, "to see," with the prefix a, meaning "not," therefore it means "not seen," or "unseen."

All 11 passages where hades occurs are consistent with the meaning of sheol -- the universal hidden resting place of all the dead, and none give any possible suggestion of, or support to, the orthodox ideas of hell, except one, Luke 16:23, the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, which will be examined later.

This is the only instance, of all the 76 occurrences of sheol and hades, that gives any hint of consciousness or torment, and it will be apparent when we examine it that Christ is speaking in parables, and is using a popular superstition to confound its own supporters.

In Rev. 20:13-14, we learn that hades ("hell" in our version) is to be "cast into the lake of fire." To the orthodox conception, this presents an absurd paradox. To them, hades IS hell, and the lake of fire is hell, therefore hell is going to be cast into hell, and that will be the end of hell -- how then can hell be eternal? And what is the hell that hell is cast into in order to destroy hell?

But in the true Scriptural picture there is harmony and reason. Hades is the grave and the lake of fire is a symbol of everlasting destruction. As the final glorious conclusion, death and the grave, the signs and inseparable accompaniments of this mortal dispensation, are to be abolished, destroyed, consumed. Paul says similarly (1 Cor. 15:26) --

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."

When the wicked have all finally been consumed into smoke and ashes, and all of this dying, mortal race have either been immortalized or destroyed, then there will be no more death, no more grave.

Death and hades (the grave) will have followed all other traces of mortality and evil into eternal oblivion. THIS is hades (the grave) being cast into the lake of fire -- completely consumed and obliterated.

Paul says later in the same chapter (1 Cor. 15:54) --

"So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

Jesus said to Peter (Matt. 16:18) --

"Upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

And when he appeared to John in Patmos he said --

"I have the keys of hades and of death" (Rev. 1:18).

Christ’s church is never, according to the popular conception, in hell, and consequently there would be no point in his having the keys of hell in order to open its gates for them.

But death and the grave DO claim them, but they do not eternally prevail over them. At his return, he will use these keys, and all whom he calls from the graves will come forth (John 5:28) just as he called Lazarus from the grave and he came forth. To this Paul refers when he says (1 Cor. 15:55-57) --

"O Death, where is thy sting? O Grave, where is thy victory? . . .

"Thanks be to God who giveth us the victory through Jesus Christ our Lord!"

To have the keys of death and the grave is to have the power to open its gates and release those held therein. [FONT=&quot]http://www.bereanchristadelphian.com/FirstPrn/hell.htm[/FONT]

Magenta · Mar 22, 2017

GEHENNA

Gehenna appears 12 times, and is always rendered "hell." It has nothing to do with sheol or hades and to translate it by the same word as is done in the Common Version is unfaithful and inexcusable.

Gehenna is a proper name, and should be so used. There is no warrant for translating it "hell," just theological bias. It is the name of a place. It appears 13 times in the Old Testament and is always there treated as a proper name of an actual site -- the Valley of Hinnom.

And in the New Testament, although truly it is used with a symbolic as well as a literal meaning, still it is on the literal meaning that the symbolic is based, and this cannot be understood if it is falsely translated.

For Jesus’ allusions to it to be understood, the facts of the name and place must be known. And one fact we shall find throughout -- it was a place of destruction and corruption, and not of preservation in torment.

Utter consuming destruction is always
the fundamental idea behind this word.

The Greek Gehenna is a transliteration of the Hebrew Gai Hinnom, meaning "Valley of Hinnom." This valley of Hinnom was the refuse dump of the city of Jerusalem. It can be seen on any map of Jerusalem, curving around the southwestern corner of the city. The Septuagint translators of the Old Testament into Greek use the word Gehenna where "Valley of Hinnom" appears in our version.

Originally, in this valley, there was a place called Topheth, and the history of the valley, as we are interested in it, begins with this place. The word Topheth is generally understood to mean "place of burning," and that is what it was. It was a place where, in the Canaanitish worship, human victims were burnt on an altar or sacrificed on the altar and the bodies then burned. Of King Ahaz it is recorded (2 Chron. 28:3) --

"Moreover he burnt incense in the Valley of the son of Hinnom, and burnt his children in the fire, after the abominations of the heathen whom the Lord had cast out before the children of Israel."

The same is recorded of King Manasseh (2 Chron. 33:6).

As a result of these practices by the apostate kings of Judah, we find in 2 Kings 23:10 that Josiah, the reformer --

"Defiled Topheth, which is in the Valley of the children of Hinnom (Gai Hinnom -- Gehenna), that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech."

This defilement by Josiah was the beginning of its use as the repository of the filth of Jerusalem. Here, right up to New Testament times, fires were kept perpetually burning for the consumption of the refuse of the city. The bodies of criminals were often cast into this place, as a final indignity and degradation.

Topheth is mentioned many times in Jeremiah 19. The prophet is sent there to prophesy against Jerusalem, and Topheth, the place of refuse and burning, is used as a symbol of destruction and defilement and consuming judgment.

Isaiah uses the same symbol in foretelling the destruction of Assyria. He says (Isa. 30:33):

"Tophet is ordained of old; for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the Lord, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it."

The use here is both literal and figurative, for while it was actually in this valley that the host of Sennacherib was destroyed, the prophecy obviously refers to the greater complete destruction of the later day Assyrian power -- the combined forces of Russia and Papal Europe.

In the New Testament the same is true. The literal Gehenna, just outside of Jerusalem, will figure largely as a site of the destructive fiery judgments to which the term is figuratively applied.

Thus the terms Tophet, Hinnom, or Gehenna were used to indicate devouring judgments and the destruction of anything that was cast out as useless and offensive and utterly consumed by corruption and fire.

Christ accordingly used the term of the destiny of the wicked, whom we have seen will be consumed to smoke and ashes by God’s fierce anger.

As in the literal all which was rejected, undesirable, and unclean was cast into Gehenna outside the city, so into the consuming lake of fire outside the spiritual new Jerusalem will be cast all who are found unfit for access into the city.

Not one of the 12 references to Gehenna give any hint of sustained torment, but always, in keeping with other references to Tophet and Hinnom, to burning consumption and destruction. There is not the slightest support for the popular doctrine of hell in any of the uses of Gehenna. [FONT=&quot]Hell is the GRAVE[/FONT]

Magenta · Mar 22, 2017

UNQUENCHABLE FIRE

Unquenched or unquenchable fire means neither everlasting fire nor everlasting torment. Unquenchable fire, as scripturally used, means fire that completely consumes it object and fulfills its purpose of destruction.

Sodom and Gomorrah "suffered the vengeance of eternal fire" (Jude 7). It is not still burning.

God warned Israel (Jer. 17:27) that He would --

"Kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and shall not be quenched."

The fire was kindled, Jersualem was burned, but the fire is not still burning. It was not quenched -- it was not halted in its purpose.

Isaiah in the last verse of his prophecy, although he does not mention Topheth or Gehenna, clearly refers to the same final judgment to which they are applied. He says --

"And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against Me:
"For their worm shall not die; neither shall their fire be quenched: and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh."

He does not, it is significant to note, speak of living persons in torment, but of carcases being consumed by worm and fire.

TARTAROS

The third word in the New Testament translated "hell" in the Common Version is Tartaros. This occurs only once, 2 Pet. 2:4 --

"God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down into tartaros, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment."

To the Greeks, tartaros appears to have signified a subterranean prison of dense darkness, or the outer void confines of the earth. And Peter here uses it as synonymous with hades. The chains of darkness and the reservation to future judgment are harmonious with this.

The verse is no support for the popular idea, but very much the reverse, for it describes hell as a place of darkness and confinement WAITING FOR judgment -- a perfect description of sheol or hades scripturally understood, but nothing like the orthodox hell. [FONT=&quot]Hell is the GRAVE[/FONT]

Magenta · Mar 22, 2017

Hell is used in place of four different words, maybe five: Hades, Gehenna, Sheol, Tartaros.

THE word "hell" occurs in our common version 54 times, 31 in the Old Testament and 23 in the New. It is a translation of 4 different words in the original, one (Sheol) in the Old, and three (Hades, Gehenna, Tartaros) in the New.

The last, Tartaros, occurs but once (2 Pet. 2:4).

Gehenna appears 12 times, it is always translated "hell," and it is always connected with burning and corruption.

Sheol and Hades, the other two, are synonymous terms, as will be demonstrated, and altogether occur 76 times. 41 times they are translated hell, 32 times grave, and 3 times pit.

While Sheol, Hades and Tartaros refer to the same place or state, Gehenna is entirely different in meaning.

************************************

SHEOL is a term for the place of the dead in general, and for this reason "hell" in its original and uncorrupted meaning is a better word for sheol than "grave" is.

"Grave" primarily means the specific place of a particular corpse or corpses. The Hebrew for this is geber, as --

"My grave (geber) which I digged for me" (Gen. 50:5).
"The king wept at the grave (geber) of Abner" (2 Sam. 3:32).

On the other hand, sheol in the Hebrew and "hell" in its primary meaning are general terms as (Psa. 6:5) --

"In the grave (sheol) who shall give Thee thanks?"
"Hell (sheol) and destruction are never full" (Prov. 27:20).

However, while "grave" used as a general term will well fit all passages where sheol occurs, "hell" in the popular sense would be absurd in some places and would immediately reveal the popular error. For example, where Jacob says (Gen. 37:35) --

"I will go down into sheol unto my son mourning."

And where Job says (14:13) --

"O that Thou wouldest hide me in sheol."

It is not to be supposed that either Jacob or Job anticipated or hoped to go to eternal torment.

In all the 65 places where sheol is found, there is not one that gives any countenance to the idea of a place of burning torment of the damned. It is always in the sense of the general hidden state of the dead -- all the dead -- good and bad alike.

And not only is sheol used as the resting place of all the dead indiscriminately, but we have specific mention of righteousness and approved men going there and expecting to go there.

We have seen this of Jacob and Job. Also David (Psa. 88:3), Hezekiah (Isa. 38:10), Christ (Psa. 16:10; Acts 2:31; 3:15), and all the faithful (compare Hos. 13:14 with 1 Cor. 15:54-56).

Sheol is a place of silence --

"Let the wicked be ashamed, and let them be silent in Sheol" (Psa. 31:17).

"The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence" (Psa. 115:17).

There is no remembrance there (Psa. 6:5) --

"In death there is no remembrance of Thee, in Sheol who shall give Thee thanks?"

Sheol is "in the dust" and there we "rest together" "in darkness" (Job 17:13-16). Beauty is consumed there (Psa. 49:14). There is no work or knowledge there --

"There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in Sheol whither thou goest" (Ecc. 9:10).

It is dark there, and is called the "land of forgetfulness," and "destruction" --

"Wilt Thou show wonders to the dead? Shall the dead arise and praise Thee?"

"Shall Thy loving kindness be declared in Sheol? Or Thy faithfulness in destruction?"

"Shall Thy wonders be known in the dark? And Thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?" (Psa. 88:10-12).

The "mighty" are spoken of as lying there with "their swords under their heads" (Eze. 32:27). This is a clear reference to the ancient custom of burying warriors in their graves with their weapons of war, but quite at variance with the traditional hell of torment.

Magenta · Mar 22, 2017

And what we are told elsewhere concerning the state of the dead fully harmonizes with what we have learned about sheol. Death is always associated with oblivion, corruption, dissolution, returning to the dust, passing away as a shadow, the end of thought, knowledge, activity or memory.

Consider what Job says of the state of the dead and see how IMPOSSIBLE it is to harmonize with it the tradition of reward or punishment at death --

"But man dieth and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost (gava -- expires), and where is he?

As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: so man lieth down and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their SLEEP" (Job 14:10-15).

Where is heavenly bliss or torment? He continues --

"O that Thou wouldest hide me in sheol, that Thou wouldest keep me secret, until Thy wrath be passed, that Thou wouldest appoint me a set time and remember me!"

In his affliction, he looked forward to the unconscious, peaceful rest in sheol until the day of resurrection and judgment. He had no illusions about sheol or hell being a place of fiery torment. He knew that there the wicked cease from troubling and the weary are at rest, they lie still and are quiet together, for he says (Job 3:11-19) --

"Why died I not from the womb? why did I not expire (gava) when I came out of the belly? Why did the knees prevent me? or why the breasts that I should suck?
"For now should I have lain still and been quiet, I should have slept: then had I been at rest, with kings and counsellors of the earth, which built desolate places for themselves: or with princes that had gold, who filled their houses with silver:
"Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been: as infants which never saw light.
"There the wicked cease from troubling and there the weary be at rest. There the prisoners rest together; they hear not the voice of the oppressor. The small and great are there; and the servant is free from his master."

Such is the great silent congregation of the dead, all together in one sleeping host: kings, counsellors, princes, still-born infants, the wicked, the weary, the prisoners, the small, the great, the servant and master. And of them all the preacher says (Eccl. 9:5) --

"The living know that they shall die, but THE DEAD KNOW NOT ANYTHING."
"In death there is no remembrance of Thee (Psa. 6:5).
"The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence" (Psa. 115:17).
http://www.bereanchristadelphian.com/FirstPrn/hell.htm

PrynceNY · Mar 22, 2017

If you are so passionate about believing in annihilation go ahead. However you aren't going to convince anyone to adopt your beliefs when there's scripture that states otherwise.

garee · Mar 22, 2017

B

The soul is the media for conversing with God. When their soul died (no relationship with God )it limited the time of their spirit. It’s what corruption does as God planned it, when He did corrupt it.. It began aging leading toward the dust it was formed from.

That would be the soul as the spirit essence of life.

Because we as a new creation are given a new spirit that will never die our soul can go to paradise, as the bosom of Abraham , the invisible presence of God.

The resurrection is a twofold work of God. On the last day those who will not experience the second death seeing they will not come in condemnation, is the same day as judgment for the unbeliever.

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

The last day also marks the seventh and final trump, the wake-up call to those dead asleep as the same call to those still here reigning with Christ..Both rise in the twinkling of the eye.

1Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

It was a physical thing for Jonas and how we understand the phrase "heart of the earth". .God does not punish a person because he did not have favor on them or otherwise we could not call it mercy, that provides grace.

Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice. Jon 2:1

You could say as Christ cried experiencing hell (tribulation) .

Note... unto death not died the Spirit of God (Chrsit) could die. It was a living sacrifice.

Mar 14:34 And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch.
Mar 14:35 And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him.
Mar 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

As the father deliverer the Son the same applies to the Holy Spirit that delivered Jonas from hell (more tribulation.)

He meant the whole.. body, soul and spirit. Because they are dead will never rise to new spirit life.

Dust that goes up in smoke has no spirit life of its own. Dead means dead not suspended animation.

Magenta · Mar 22, 2017

PrynceNY said:

I don't need your permission to believe the truth of Scripture!

garee · Mar 22, 2017

PrynceNY said:

Is it much easier for some to believe God is wicked master punishing people because He decided not to have mercy on some.

Dead is dead not suspected animation forever and ever. Hell is not hibernation

Magenta · Mar 22, 2017

garee said:

It is much easier for the many to have the completely disparate view that God is good but then turn around and make Him a sadistic monster Who tortures forever after those who refuse His offer of life more abundant through the propitiatory sacrifice of Jesus on the cross, where He poured out His righteous blood for us due to His great love for us, to reconcile us to God. They pretend they believe that God is loving, but He will fry you like an ant under a magnifying glass. They pretend they believe that God is just, but He will torture you for an eternity if you don't believe in Him. They pretend to believe that God is loving, but He is going to force you to live forever in fiery torments. According to them, God is merciful but He glories in His cruelty, and they call it truth, when so many Scriptures oppose what they claim it boggles my mind they cannot see it. They promote the lie of Satan at the heart of the fall of all creation. It is abhorrent. Then they want to pat me on the back and so oh poor you, you cannot stand that God is going to act this way. Huh? Such nonsense. The thought of burning people never entered God's mind! I love the Truth of God's Word, His loving kindness, His justice, mercy, grace, and goodness and do not accept the lies everyone else tells about God.

blue_ladybug · Mar 22, 2017

Burning people never entered God's mind? Then why does He send them to the lake of fire to burn for all eternity?

HELL

Senior Member

Senior Member

StanJ

Guest

StanJ

Guest

StanJ

Guest

Senior Member

StanJ

Guest

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member