Hell's Population Clock

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K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#21
Even though there will be a very big number of people that get cast into the lake of fire after judgment.
The bible in Revelation makes it clear that there will be a very big number of believers that are saved as well;

Revelation 7:9
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
9,900
699
113
#22
I had a vision of hell about 6 years before I was saved. Actually, I was in hell, and it was very scary.

So what did I do about it? Nothing, I continued to live my foolish ways.

I don't think most people in our society can be scared about hell, causing them to repent and believe. How much better to preach of God's love, explaining it is sin that separates us from God? And that Jesus paid the price for us to be saved on Calvary!

"Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save, or his ear dull, that it cannot hear; but your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you so that he does not hear." Isaiah 59:1-2

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23

"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23

"For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might becomethe righteousness of God." 2 Cor. 5:21

"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed." 1 Peter 2:24

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—" Galatians 3:13
 
Nov 30, 2012
2,396
25
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#23
Thomas that is a pretty big accusation to make...the realities of hell and people pouring into it is a current reality....the bible speaks of hell moving to meet thee at thy coming and being enlarged without measure......what the Westboro people did was contrary...but to bring to light the realities of hell is biblical.....and just because Catholics believe in a non-existent place called purgatory does not alleviate the realities of hell.
Oh but updating a "clock" with a number of how many are now in Hell is acceptable? Seriously, my accusation is spot on...go to the Westboro websites. They have a counter at the bottom of each page that tells you how many people are in hell since you started looking at the page.
 

WebersHome

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2014
1,940
20
0
#24
How would you choose to have men saved?
As far as sparing people the Great White Throne event depicted at
Rev 20:11-15; God isn't open to suggestions: He has a closed mind.

==============================
 

Nicee

Senior Member
Mar 27, 2013
272
0
0
#25
No one is in hell at the moment. Hell is not burning currently. It burns AFTER the Millennium and the Last Great Day.
If you say so. Regardless of what we believe about hell. Satan is still doing what I stated. "Came from walking to n from the earth" chapter 1 or 2 of job.
 

WebersHome

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2014
1,940
20
0
#26
Pop Clock Update

-
Judas goats are trained for use in slaughterhouses and herd control. In
stockyards, they lead sheep to slaughter; and are also used to lead other
animals to specific pens and on to trucks. The term is a reference to the
biblical traitor Judas Iscariot.

The phrase has also been used to describe goats utilized to locate feral goats
targeted for eradication. They're usually outfitted with a transmitter, painted
in red and then released. The goats then locate the remaining herds of feral
goats, allowing hunters with tracking devices to find and exterminate them.
The red paint marks the goat with the transmitter so the hunters know
which one not to shoot.

You know what can be even worse than going to hell? Your own children
following you there: and they trusted you.

Here's a cute story I heard once. I don't know if it's true but I guess it sure
is pertinent.

A boozing farmer went out to his barn in the dead of night after a snowfall to
sneak a pull from his liquor bottle. Just as he got to the barn door he heard
something behind him. Turning, the farmer recognized his little boy coming
towards him. In amazement he asked the little guy how he ever managed to
find his way out to the barn in the dark. His son replied: It was easy; I
walked in your footsteps.

For some families, the only thing they have to look forward to in the afterlife
is a sad reunion in fire; for example:

†. Luke 16:27-29 . . Then he said: I beg you therefore, father [Abraham]
that you would send [Lazarus] to my father's house, for I have five brothers,
that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.

That poor man had no way to contact his surviving kin and let them know
where he was; but his biggest fear was that he knew them well enough to
know that all five were coming down where he was-- there was nothing he
could do to prevent it. Imagine that man's anguish had those five been his
children.

BTW: the man's five brothers have long since joined him. Luke recorded
that event nearly two-thousand years ago.

Pop Clock Update: 9 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 527,229 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since December 10,
2014.

====================================
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,095
968
113
#27
Oh but updating a "clock" with a number of how many are now in Hell is acceptable? Seriously, my accusation is spot on...go to the Westboro websites. They have a counter at the bottom of each page that tells you how many people are in hell since you started looking at the page.
First of all no one can accurately know the number but God....
Second--->Broad and wide is the way that leads there and MANY go in thereat
Third-->Straight and NARROW is the way that leads unto LIFE and few there be that find it

We can rightfully surmise that the number that goes to hell is far greater than the number that makes heaven!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,095
968
113
#28
I had a vision of hell about 6 years before I was saved. Actually, I was in hell, and it was very scary.

So what did I do about it? Nothing, I continued to live my foolish ways.

I don't think most people in our society can be scared about hell, causing them to repent and believe. How much better to preach of God's love, explaining it is sin that separates us from God? And that Jesus paid the price for us to be saved on Calvary!
Well, a couple of thoughts.......

1. The rich man while cooking in hell in Luke 16 still refuses to believe that God's plan will work as found in the word of God
2. He does desire Abraham to send Lazarus back to his brothers to warn them...
3. Abraham states that if they refuse to hear the word of God that they would not believe though one rose from the dead
4. ONE did rise from the dead and people still reject.....

Psalm 90:3 Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men.

Jesus<---I will tell you who you shall fear....HIM that as the authority to KILL and then cast into HELL.

While I agree with what you say about preaching LOVE, I will not alleviate the fact that Jesus and the bible also uses HELL and or destruction as a motivator to repent and trust the Lord.

The FEAR of the LORD is the beginning of KNOWLEDGE
, but fools despise wisdom and instruction!
 
Nov 30, 2012
2,396
25
0
#29
First of all no one can accurately know the number but God....
Second--->Broad and wide is the way that leads there and MANY go in thereat
Third-->Straight and NARROW is the way that leads unto LIFE and few there be that find it

We can rightfully surmise that the number that goes to hell is far greater than the number that makes heaven!
You are missing the point. Those is hell are not a number. They aren't "checking in to the fiery sector" in that sickly joking manner Weber uses. These are people. Who loved and are loved, cried, sang, raged, fathered, mothered, and have and had family. Would you walk up to the families and proclaim at their funeral their deaths and entrances to hell? Let's be honest here. We are not to rejoice at those who enter Hell. We are not to make it a laughing or joking matter, such as "checking in". We are to preach its existence as the outcome of a world that rejects the Love of God. However, to update a "clock" with cold numbers as if these people never mattered and then to use jovial language in describing their torment sounds more like the actions of one without Love than one who has Love.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
22,508
1,139
113
63
#30
I pray that no one goes to hell. No clocks, zero population.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,095
968
113
#31
You are missing the point. Those is hell are not a number. They aren't "checking in to the fiery sector" in that sickly joking manner Weber uses. These are people. Who loved and are loved, cried, sang, raged, fathered, mothered, and have and had family. Would you walk up to the families and proclaim at their funeral their deaths and entrances to hell? Let's be honest here. We are not to rejoice at those who enter Hell. We are not to make it a laughing or joking matter, such as "checking in". We are to preach its existence as the outcome of a world that rejects the Love of God. However, to update a "clock" with cold numbers as if these people never mattered and then to use jovial language in describing their torment sounds more like the actions of one without Love than one who has Love.
You know what...not going to argue with you other than to say......

1. God does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked
2. They died ENEMIES of the cross by the rejection of Jesus
3. All are in the hands of a living, merciful God, yet he will send people there you reject the LOVE HE OFFERS dia his SON

and NO I would not say ANYONE is in hell at their death unless they went out denying the LORD like Thomas Paine who had two witnesses at his death that he went out denying the LORD JESUS.......

Read his book...The AGE of REASON and see what he thinks and how he died an ENEMY of the CROSS and Biblical Christianity!
 

WebersHome

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2014
1,940
20
0
#32
Would you walk up to the families and proclaim at their funeral their deaths
and entrances to hell?
I know of the Protestant minister who was asked by Audie Murphy's widow
Pamela to speak at her husband's funeral. Audie Murphy, as you may
already know, was a 32nd degree Scottish Rite Mason and a Shriner; but he
wasn't a Christian.

In amazement, the minister asked Mrs. Murphy why she chose a Christian to
speak at her husband's funeral. Though Audie himself wasn't a Christian, his
widow was; and she explained that the Hollywood crowd would be there the
day of his funeral, and having hob-nobbed with them during her husband's
acting career, she was fully aware that many of them rarely listened to
something on the afterlife related to Christ's crucifixion. Well . . that day they
did, and were very annoyed because they were expecting the usual sappy,
feel-good platitudes to which pampered celebrities are accustomed.

†. Ecc 7:4 . . The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning; but the
heart of fools is in the house of mirth.

Some may feel that hell isn't an appropriate topic at a funeral. But I think
that, other than Xmas and Easter, you couldn't pick a better time to bring it
up, especially since Jesus said that the majority of the human race is ending
up there. (Matt 7:13-14, Matt 22:14)

†. Ecc 7:2 . . It is better to go to a house of mourning than to go to a house
of gaiety, for death is the destiny of every man; the living should take this
seriously.

As I watched some of the splendor and pomp of President Gerald Ford's
funeral back in January of 2007, I couldn't help but wonder if he was in a
position to really appreciate it; as I suspect people in Hell would certainly no
longer really care anymore whether they were given an unknown pauper's
disposal in a City incinerator, or reverently placed in a grand tomb in the
National Cemetery with world-wide television coverage.

=======================================
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#33
You are missing the point. Those is hell are not a number. They aren't "checking in to the fiery sector" in that sickly joking manner Weber uses. These are people. Who loved and are loved, cried, sang, raged, fathered, mothered, and have and had family. Would you walk up to the families and proclaim at their funeral their deaths and entrances to hell? Let's be honest here. We are not to rejoice at those who enter Hell. We are not to make it a laughing or joking matter, such as "checking in". We are to preach its existence as the outcome of a world that rejects the Love of God. However, to update a "clock" with cold numbers as if these people never mattered and then to use jovial language in describing their torment sounds more like the actions of one without Love than one who has Love.

I am with you on this, we are not to rejoice, laugh, or make a joking matter out of those who are going to hell or lake of fire. We are to be sad for them, and try to help them while they are still alive on the earth to lead them away from that outcome. Some will listen, and a lot will not. But to say we are to rejoice, be happy, and joke about it is just a seriously wrong thing to do. And like you said and I would agree, that by doing that shows an act of no love.
 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
14,546
394
83
#34
well I would prefer that few as possible have to even see what hell is like, but a clock predicting how many are entering hell not only seems pointless to me but could be used by the enemy to cause fear in ppls hearts and lead them from having a loving relationship with God. I don't trust statistics never have never will but we as humans actually have no clue as to the number of ppl going to heaven or hell and if we tried to guess or estimate I doubt we would even get close to the actual number.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,095
968
113
#35
well I would prefer that few as possible have to even see what hell is like, but a clock predicting how many are entering hell not only seems pointless to me but could be used by the enemy to cause fear in ppls hearts and lead them from having a loving relationship with God. I don't trust statistics never have never will but we as humans actually have no clue as to the number of ppl going to heaven or hell and if we tried to guess or estimate I doubt we would even get close to the actual number.
Jesus had no problem using hell as a motivator!


Psalm 90:3 Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men.

Jesus<---I will tell you who you shall fear....HIM that as the authority to KILL and then cast into HELL
.

While I agree with what you say about preaching LOVE, I will not alleviate the fact that Jesus and the bible also uses HELL and or destruction as a motivator to repent and trust the Lord.

The FEAR of the LORD is the beginning of KNOWLEDGE
, but fools despise wisdom and instruction!
 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
14,546
394
83
#36
Jesus had no problem using hell as a motivator!


Psalm 90:3 Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men.

Jesus<---I will tell you who you shall fear....HIM that as the authority to KILL and then cast into HELL
.

While I agree with what you say about preaching LOVE, I will not alleviate the fact that Jesus and the bible also uses HELL and or destruction as a motivator to repent and trust the Lord.

The FEAR of the LORD is the beginning of KNOWLEDGE
, but fools despise wisdom and instruction!
what you say is true but that isn't the spirit of the op is it? when you read the op did it seem to you like he was trying to help others? This is why I believe the enemy can and will use such things. I share what I have seen when I went to hell a lot on cc but I don't do it merely to speak of my supernatural experience I also do it to be a living testimony of what hell is like and what lays ahead for for us who refuse to accept Gold's love and grace.
The op is mere statistics and the motive behind every post, behind every thing we say is what is important. a person can do great wonders can heal ppl can save the lost but if their hearts were not on and for God then profits them? even if a person does come to God from fear of hell or damnation if they stay in that position as years go by they will never truly know God or form an actual relationship with him and will become one of those ppl who love to preach on God's wrath and condemn ppl who they have ill feeling against
 

WebersHome

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2014
1,940
20
0
#37
Pop Clock Update

-
Through me; the way to the eternal city.
Through me; the way to eternal sadness.
Through me; the way to lost people.

Justice moved my supreme maker:
I was shaped by divine power,
By highest wisdom, and by primal love.

Before me, nothing was created
That is not eternal: and eternally I endure.
Abandon all hope, you that enter here.

The Divine Comedy
by Dante Alighieri
Inferno: canto 3, v.1-9

Dante's Divine Comedy is called a comedy because it has a happy ending as
opposed to a tragedy; at least for Dante anyway. The souls he and Virgil
pass along the way through the Inferno portion of Dante's odyssey will
never, nor anon, have a happy ending; hence the sign above the entrance to
the netherworld: "Abandon all hope, you that enter here."

Pop Clock Update: 12 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 702,972 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since December 10,
2014.

=======================================
 

WebersHome

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2014
1,940
20
0
#38
Pop Clock Update

-
†. Luke 13:4-5 . . And what about the eighteen men who died when a tower
of Siloam fell on them? Were they the worst sinners in Jerusalem? No, and I
tell you again that unless you repent, you will likewise perish.

The koiné Greek word for "tower" in that passage is purgos (poor'-gos)
which is an ambiguous word that can mean not only an isolated structure
like a skyscraper; but also a special battlement which protrudes from the
face of a castle's curtain wall-- consisting of crenellations, merlons, and
machicolations --providing occupants a tactical advantage for observing and
defending the curtain wall's exterior face. Sometimes though, purgos were
simply architectural facades that made otherwise insipid stone walls
aesthetically pleasing to the eye.

Unfortunately, in the days prior to steel reinforcing bar and structural steel
beams, purgos (which were often constructed of either stones or bricks or
wood) weren't all that stable, and sometimes crumbled; thus detaching
themselves from the curtain wall like an old swallow's nest; resulting in
pieces raining down on whoever happened to be standing below. The tower
depicted in Luke was possibly a decorative part of an architectural enclosure
surrounding the pool of Siloam. (cf. John 9:7)

The people who were killed when that tower collapsed, weren't killed by the
hand of God. No, they were just simply in the wrong place at the wrong
time; viz: it was just dumb luck. It's like when people plan all month for a
camping trip in the mountains. Upon arrival, they set up camp; and after
lunch, walk a hiking trail. Just then, a tree limb, that's been silently growing
in the forest for who knows how many years, suddenly decides to snap off
and fall to earth right then; subsequently killing one of the campers just as
they walk under it.

One minute earlier and it would have missed. One minute later and it would
have missed. But no, the limb falls right on cue as if the forces of nature
conspired to hold that tree limb in place till just the right moment; waiting
for that one specific person to walk under it.

In a similar incident Friday, Feb 19, 2010 --a centuries-old Mosque minaret
in Meknes Morocco collapsed and fell into a crowd of worshippers during
prayer time, killing 41.

Saturday, June 27, 2010, a 6-month-old baby girl was killed and her mother
seriously injured when the pair were struck by a falling tree branch in New
York City's Central Park Zoo. The girl's father was taking their picture near
the sea lion exhibit when a branch above them suddenly snapped off and
fell.

On Tuesday, July 3, 2007; nineteen year-old Ramiro Gonzalez was returning
home to Nyssa Oregon from a week-end honeymoon in northern California
with his bride Idalia asleep in the back seat when their 1997 Pontiac Grand
Am hit a cow twenty miles east of Burns. The Pontiac went off the road,
through a fence, and burst into flames. Idalia escaped with only minor
injuries, but Ramiro died at the Ste. Charles Medical Center in Bend the very
next day.

Ramiro and his bride didn't get to live in a home of their own for even one
single minute of their marriage-- never had a baby, never joined the PTA,
never saved for college, never went to ballet lessons, nor to soccer or little
league, never went on family picnics, never took home movies and photos at
Christmas, Easter, or birthdays, never went to the beach and built sand
castles --no, their entire future, and all their dreams of family life, were
shattered in an instant by a lame-brained bovine; and Ramiro wasn't even
20 years old yet.

March 20, 2008; fifty-seven year old Judy Kay Zagorski, of Pigeon, Michigan,
was sitting in the front seat of her father's boat going 25 knots on the
Atlantic Ocean side of Vaca Key in Florida, when a Spotted Eagle Ray, with a
wingspan of 5 to 6 feet; leaped up out of the water-- for who knows what
reason --and collided with Zagorski, knocking her backwards onto the deck
of the boat. She died from the impact. Judy's sister, standing next to her,
was not injured.

On a November morning in 1998, Alan Pakula climbed into his Volvo station
wagon and began the 100-mile drive from Manhattan to his Long Island
house. The acclaimed movie director of Sophie's Choice, All The President's
Men, and The Pelican Brief, had made that trip countless times with no
incident.

As the 70 year-old Pakula neared exit 49 on the Long Island Expressway just
before noon, the tires of a vehicle ahead of him flipped a 7-foot piece of
steel rod into the air. Within seconds, the rod shot through Pakula's
windshield, smashing into his forehead, killing him almost instantly.

Death often comes when people least expect it. As a rule, they don't usually
get up in the morning planning it to be their last day on earth. The 169,752
killed, and 127,294 listed as missing, in more than eleven countries by the
tsunami of 2004, were taken by surprise, and given no warning it was to be
their last day on earth.

The 2,829 people who perished in a terrorist attack on the World Trade
Center on September 11, 2001, and the 189 who died in the Pentagon,
didn't go in to work expecting their lives to end before lunch that day. No,
people's lives often end while they still have obligations and commitments,
aspirations, things to do, places to go, and people to see; when a car
accident, train wreck, act of nature, plane crash, crime, heart attack, or
stroke puts an abrupt end to every plan they ever made.

Tuesday, Jan 12, 2010, a 7.0 earthquake struck Port au Prince Haiti right out
of the blue subsequently causing the loss of more than 200,000 lives. A
similar act of nature on March 11, 2011, left 25,000 dead and/or missing in
Japan.

Okeechobee woman Dawn Johnston, 38, was killed Wednesday June 30,
2010 after part of a portable toilet crashed through her car's windshield.
Dawn was driving south on SR 15 shortly after 11 a.m. when two portable
toilets fell from the trailer of a pickup truck traveling north,. The portable
toilets shattered when they hit the road, and a piece of one of them crashed
through the woman's windshield, striking her. Johnston's car then veered off
the road and collided with a tree.

A rain-saturated hillside above the Stillaguamish River on the outskirts of the
rural town of Oso in the State of Washington gave way March 22, 2014
leaving behind a current death toll of 41 souls. The landslide happened to
suddenly and so rapidly that nobody saw it coming and/or had the slightest
chance of getting out of the way. Listed among the dead and missing was a
four-month old infant.

Freak incidents like those listed above can happen to anybody in the form of
a stray bullet from a drive-by, lightening strike, gas explosion, choking on a
piece of meat, electrocution, earthquake, a drunk driver, a fall in the bath
tub; bricks dropped from an overpass, or any number of out-of-the-blue
surprises. I don't think the Lord was saying that repentance will protect
people from dying in an unexpected incident, but rather, that if they don't
start thinking about the afterlife now, while they have the chance; then they
risk being caught off guard by sudden death where there will be no time to
think; and they'll find themselves suddenly thrust into the afterlife a lot
sooner than they ever expected.

NOTE: I was taught in catechism that repentance always means sorrow and
regret for one's sins; but I don't think that's what the Lord was getting at.

The koiné Greek word for "repent" in the Lord's statement is metanoeo
(met-an-o-eh'-o) which means: to think differently; viz: to reconsider-- in
other words: to change one's mind and/or change one's direction.

I was also taught in catechism that repentance and confession of one's sins
are joined at the hip; so to speak. But confession of sins is not the emphasis
in Luke 13:4-5; metanoeo is the emphasis.

The Lord preceded the statement recorded in Luke 13:4-5 with another like
it.

†. Luke 13:1-3 . .There were present at that season some who told Him
about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And
Jesus answered and said to them: Do you suppose that these Galileans were
worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? I
tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.

The record doesn't explain why Pilate executed those men in particular; nor
even where the executions took place. But just for brevity's sake, I'll assume
for now that those particular men were known insurrectionists, and the
executions took place on the grounds of the Temple compound in Jerusalem
while the men were there to worship. In other words: the men were pounced
upon in a place they would never suspect; and Pilate's soldiers sprung on
the Galileans so suddenly and so efficiently that the men had no chance to
either escape or to defend themselves.

It's at a time like that when your religion of choice had better be the right
one because you'll have neither time nor opportunity to reconsider and
switch to another one.

†. Ecc 9:10-12 . . For the time of mischance comes to all. And a man cannot
even know his time. As fishes are enmeshed in a fatal net, and as birds are
trapped in a snare, so men are caught at the time of calamity, when it
comes upon them without warning.

Pop Clock Update: 15 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 878,715 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since December 10,
2014.

========================================
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,095
968
113
#39
Re: Pop Clock Update

A reality check for sure.....Solomon said that time and chance happen unto all......the first thing I think about someone who dies unexpectedly is...I wonder if they were truly born again and if Jesus KNEW them.....Today is the day of salvation Paul said and no one is guaranteed tomorrow......!


-
†. Luke 13:4-5 . . And what about the eighteen men who died when a tower
of Siloam fell on them? Were they the worst sinners in Jerusalem? No, and I
tell you again that unless you repent, you will likewise perish.

The koiné Greek word for "tower" in that passage is purgos (poor'-gos)
which is an ambiguous word that can mean not only an isolated structure
like a skyscraper; but also a special battlement which protrudes from the
face of a castle's curtain wall-- consisting of crenellations, merlons, and
machicolations --providing occupants a tactical advantage for observing and
defending the curtain wall's exterior face. Sometimes though, purgos were
simply architectural facades that made otherwise insipid stone walls
aesthetically pleasing to the eye.

Unfortunately, in the days prior to steel reinforcing bar and structural steel
beams, purgos (which were often constructed of either stones or bricks or
wood) weren't all that stable, and sometimes crumbled; thus detaching
themselves from the curtain wall like an old swallow's nest; resulting in
pieces raining down on whoever happened to be standing below. The tower
depicted in Luke was possibly a decorative part of an architectural enclosure
surrounding the pool of Siloam. (cf. John 9:7)

The people who were killed when that tower collapsed, weren't killed by the
hand of God. No, they were just simply in the wrong place at the wrong
time; viz: it was just dumb luck. It's like when people plan all month for a
camping trip in the mountains. Upon arrival, they set up camp; and after
lunch, walk a hiking trail. Just then, a tree limb, that's been silently growing
in the forest for who knows how many years, suddenly decides to snap off
and fall to earth right then; subsequently killing one of the campers just as
they walk under it.

One minute earlier and it would have missed. One minute later and it would
have missed. But no, the limb falls right on cue as if the forces of nature
conspired to hold that tree limb in place till just the right moment; waiting
for that one specific person to walk under it.

In a similar incident Friday, Feb 19, 2010 --a centuries-old Mosque minaret
in Meknes Morocco collapsed and fell into a crowd of worshippers during
prayer time, killing 41.

Saturday, June 27, 2010, a 6-month-old baby girl was killed and her mother
seriously injured when the pair were struck by a falling tree branch in New
York City's Central Park Zoo. The girl's father was taking their picture near
the sea lion exhibit when a branch above them suddenly snapped off and
fell.

On Tuesday, July 3, 2007; nineteen year-old Ramiro Gonzalez was returning
home to Nyssa Oregon from a week-end honeymoon in northern California
with his bride Idalia asleep in the back seat when their 1997 Pontiac Grand
Am hit a cow twenty miles east of Burns. The Pontiac went off the road,
through a fence, and burst into flames. Idalia escaped with only minor
injuries, but Ramiro died at the Ste. Charles Medical Center in Bend the very
next day.

Ramiro and his bride didn't get to live in a home of their own for even one
single minute of their marriage-- never had a baby, never joined the PTA,
never saved for college, never went to ballet lessons, nor to soccer or little
league, never went on family picnics, never took home movies and photos at
Christmas, Easter, or birthdays, never went to the beach and built sand
castles --no, their entire future, and all their dreams of family life, were
shattered in an instant by a lame-brained bovine; and Ramiro wasn't even
20 years old yet.

March 20, 2008; fifty-seven year old Judy Kay Zagorski, of Pigeon, Michigan,
was sitting in the front seat of her father's boat going 25 knots on the
Atlantic Ocean side of Vaca Key in Florida, when a Spotted Eagle Ray, with a
wingspan of 5 to 6 feet; leaped up out of the water-- for who knows what
reason --and collided with Zagorski, knocking her backwards onto the deck
of the boat. She died from the impact. Judy's sister, standing next to her,
was not injured.

On a November morning in 1998, Alan Pakula climbed into his Volvo station
wagon and began the 100-mile drive from Manhattan to his Long Island
house. The acclaimed movie director of Sophie's Choice, All The President's
Men, and The Pelican Brief, had made that trip countless times with no
incident.

As the 70 year-old Pakula neared exit 49 on the Long Island Expressway just
before noon, the tires of a vehicle ahead of him flipped a 7-foot piece of
steel rod into the air. Within seconds, the rod shot through Pakula's
windshield, smashing into his forehead, killing him almost instantly.

Death often comes when people least expect it. As a rule, they don't usually
get up in the morning planning it to be their last day on earth. The 169,752
killed, and 127,294 listed as missing, in more than eleven countries by the
tsunami of 2004, were taken by surprise, and given no warning it was to be
their last day on earth.

The 2,829 people who perished in a terrorist attack on the World Trade
Center on September 11, 2001, and the 189 who died in the Pentagon,
didn't go in to work expecting their lives to end before lunch that day. No,
people's lives often end while they still have obligations and commitments,
aspirations, things to do, places to go, and people to see; when a car
accident, train wreck, act of nature, plane crash, crime, heart attack, or
stroke puts an abrupt end to every plan they ever made.

Tuesday, Jan 12, 2010, a 7.0 earthquake struck Port au Prince Haiti right out
of the blue subsequently causing the loss of more than 200,000 lives. A
similar act of nature on March 11, 2011, left 25,000 dead and/or missing in
Japan.

Okeechobee woman Dawn Johnston, 38, was killed Wednesday June 30,
2010 after part of a portable toilet crashed through her car's windshield.
Dawn was driving south on SR 15 shortly after 11 a.m. when two portable
toilets fell from the trailer of a pickup truck traveling north,. The portable
toilets shattered when they hit the road, and a piece of one of them crashed
through the woman's windshield, striking her. Johnston's car then veered off
the road and collided with a tree.

A rain-saturated hillside above the Stillaguamish River on the outskirts of the
rural town of Oso in the State of Washington gave way March 22, 2014
leaving behind a current death toll of 41 souls. The landslide happened to
suddenly and so rapidly that nobody saw it coming and/or had the slightest
chance of getting out of the way. Listed among the dead and missing was a
four-month old infant.

Freak incidents like those listed above can happen to anybody in the form of
a stray bullet from a drive-by, lightening strike, gas explosion, choking on a
piece of meat, electrocution, earthquake, a drunk driver, a fall in the bath
tub; bricks dropped from an overpass, or any number of out-of-the-blue
surprises. I don't think the Lord was saying that repentance will protect
people from dying in an unexpected incident, but rather, that if they don't
start thinking about the afterlife now, while they have the chance; then they
risk being caught off guard by sudden death where there will be no time to
think; and they'll find themselves suddenly thrust into the afterlife a lot
sooner than they ever expected.

NOTE: I was taught in catechism that repentance always means sorrow and
regret for one's sins; but I don't think that's what the Lord was getting at.

The koiné Greek word for "repent" in the Lord's statement is metanoeo
(met-an-o-eh'-o) which means: to think differently; viz: to reconsider-- in
other words: to change one's mind and/or change one's direction.

I was also taught in catechism that repentance and confession of one's sins
are joined at the hip; so to speak. But confession of sins is not the emphasis
in Luke 13:4-5; metanoeo is the emphasis.

The Lord preceded the statement recorded in Luke 13:4-5 with another like
it.

†. Luke 13:1-3 . .There were present at that season some who told Him
about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And
Jesus answered and said to them: Do you suppose that these Galileans were
worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? I
tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.

The record doesn't explain why Pilate executed those men in particular; nor
even where the executions took place. But just for brevity's sake, I'll assume
for now that those particular men were known insurrectionists, and the
executions took place on the grounds of the Temple compound in Jerusalem
while the men were there to worship. In other words: the men were pounced
upon in a place they would never suspect; and Pilate's soldiers sprung on
the Galileans so suddenly and so efficiently that the men had no chance to
either escape or to defend themselves.

It's at a time like that when your religion of choice had better be the right
one because you'll have neither time nor opportunity to reconsider and
switch to another one.

†. Ecc 9:10-12 . . For the time of mischance comes to all. And a man cannot
even know his time. As fishes are enmeshed in a fatal net, and as birds are
trapped in a snare, so men are caught at the time of calamity, when it
comes upon them without warning.

Pop Clock Update: 15 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 878,715 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since December 10,
2014.

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WebersHome

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2014
1,940
20
0
#40
Pop Clock Update

-
Right Back Atcha.

I once heard President Obama reply to criticism with almost those exact
same words; viz: he didn't deny the truth of the criticism, but instead
employed the age-old tactic of accusing his critic of the very same things;
which, I guess in his mind; somehow mitigated his own culpability; but the
honorable response would have been for him to man-up and admit his
conduct was unbecoming rather than stoop to recriminations.

It's very common for people to respond to criticism the same way Mr.
Obama did. It's all the same as saying "Who are you to talk?". Well;
regardless of who someone is to talk, if the criticism is true; then it stands;
viz: recriminations are futile. All they do is pull someone down with you so
you don't go down alone.

I suspect there's going to be a quite a bit of resentment and indignation at
the Great White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15 when the dead see
people in heaven who they know to be guilty of the very same things for
which they are being sentenced to hell.

Human nature is funny. If I criticize a tree, it doesn't react. If I criticize a
spider; it doesn't react. If I criticize a Guinea pig, it doesn't react. If I
criticize a parakeet, it doesn't react. But if I criticize a human being; it
becomes defensive. It's a curious behavior.

So; how might I describe the human spirit? I think I could accurately
describe it as both judgmental and defensive.

†. Rom 2:15 . .Their thoughts the meanwhile accusing or else excusing one
another.

Pop Clock Update: 18 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 1,054,458 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since December 10,
2014.

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