History of the Sabbath - Have you been tricked?

prove-all · Sep 17, 2016

The Lord hath done that which he had devised;
he hath fulfilled his word that he had commanded in the days of old:
he hath thrown down, and hath not pitied: and he hath caused thine enemy
to rejoice over thee, he hath set up [the horn of thine adversaries].

-

In the seventh chapter of the book of Daniel is an amazing prophecy picturing for 2,500
years into the future, from the day it was written, the course of the Gentile kingdoms.

Starting with the ancient Chaldean Empire of Nebuchadnezzar, this prophecy foretells
the successive [world rule] of the Persian Empire, Alexander’s Greco-Macedonian
kingdom with its four divisions, and finally, of the mighty Roman Empire.

Out of the original Roman Empire, symbolized by 10 “horns” growing out of the head
of a “beast,” are pictured the 10 resurrections of the Roman Empire that have continued
since its fall to the present, and are scheduled to continue until the coming of Christ.

Among these 10 kingdoms which have ruled in the Western world since the fall of Rome
to the present, appeared another “little horn,” whose “look was more stout than his fellows.”
In other words, another government, actually smaller, yet dominating over all the others.

Students of prophecy recognize this “little horn” as a great religious hierarchy. And in the
25th verse of this prophecy, it is stated that this hierarchy shall “think to change times and laws.”

How Time Was Changed

This same power is mentioned again in the 17th chapter of Revelation, here pictured
as ruling over the kings and kingdoms of the Earth, persecuting the true saints.

In every possible manner, this power has changed time!

God begins the days at sunset, but “the little horn” has changed it so the world now
begins the day in the middle of the night by a man-made watch.

God begins the week with the ending of the true Sabbath, the seventh day of the week,
but the world begins the working week in the middle of the night, the second day of the week.

God begins the months with the new moons, but this “little horn” has induced the world
to begin the months according to a clumsy man-made calendar of heathen origin.

-

there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets,
and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar
what shall be in the (latter days)” (Daniel 2:28)

8And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord,
what shall be the end of these things?

9And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are
(closed up) and (sealed) till the time of (the end).

4But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end:
many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Daniel chastened himself before God gave him those secrets(Daniel 10:3-5, 12).
Those secrets opened Daniel to Satan’s most vicious attack!

The prince of Persia is Satan.(Daniel 10:18-21).
Satan fought against the two great archangels,
Michael and Gabriel, for 21 days (Daniel 10:13).

why else would God reveal it but use to know and be a witness.
Daniel nor anyone else understood then, the message is for us now.

TheAristocat · Sep 17, 2016

disciplemike said:

I enjoyed the last part of the video about the definition of a day, but I'm not completely sold on it.

1. Many of his points did not explicitly refer to morning as being the beginning of a new day, but you could say that it implied such or hinted at it. Still not a solid connection.
2. Those points that did make a more explicit connection between morning being the start of a new day occurred later in the Bible, which was centuries after the Sabbath law was written. And he does not take into account the fact that he uses human narration about history to support his point regarding the Sabbath. Who's to say that the human narration was not tinted by the secular cultures in which they lived or the practices of the people around them at that point in history? A good example of that would be in America today. We'd no doubt define a day as lasting from 12:00 to 12:00 in our narration, regardless of our religious beliefs.
3. He didn't make a good rebuttal to the idea that Leviticus 23:32 was not defining what a day was. He made an attempt at it, but did not provide any evidence for his belief. He simply said that it was defining the limits of a special day of the year, but that for every other day of the year it was defined differently.
4. The earliest source we have regarding how a day was defined by God seems to explicitly define its beginning at evening. Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. This statement is repeated in Genesis for each day of the week.

So I'm not quite ready to change how I observe the Sabbath day, but interesting thoughts nevertheless.

pottersclay · Sep 17, 2016

I sincerely hope that those who choose to follow the law know what libertys they have given up. And how serious of a matter this is. The Lord will not be mocked. For he has sent a redeemer for all to satisfy and fulfill the law. To say that one can follow the law and still abide in grace is a mockery in my opinion. That's like opening the prison door for a prisoner but he refuses to leave the cell but confesses he a free man.
I don't think God honors this in fact I remember the words of the pastor who my wife and I saw and received marriage counseling before we got married. He had told us that God had deemed man the head of the household as Christ is the head of the church. My wife had a stern look on her face that slowly became a smile, she looked at me and said, "good if anything goes wrong I know who to blame. My point being what the pastors said shortly after " anything born with 2 heads is a freak. I look at serving Christ and serving the law as such.

disciplemike · Sep 17, 2016

pottersclay said:

I sincerely hope that those who choose to follow the law know what libertys they have given up. And how serious of a matter this is. The Lord will not be mocked. For he has sent a redeemer for all to satisfy and fulfill the law. To say that one can follow the law and still abide in grace is a mockery in my opinion. That's like opening the prison door for a prisoner but he refuses to leave the cell but confesses he a free man.
I don't think God honors this in fact I remember the words of the pastor who my wife and I saw and received marriage counseling before we got married. He had told us that God had deemed man the head of the household as Christ is the head of the church. My wife had a stern look on her face that slowly became a smile, she looked at me and said, "good if anything goes wrong I know who to blame. My point being what the pastors said shortly after " anything born with 2 heads is a freak. I look at serving Christ and serving the law as such.

what does that term mean, to satisfy the law?
was the law unsatisfied?
elaborate please for a slower brother.

pottersclay · Sep 17, 2016

disciplemike said:

The law required a perfect sacrifice without spot or blemish A willing sacrifice, acceptable to God in all ways. Jesus was the sacrifice that satisfied God. Putting a end to any other sacrifice needed. Once and for all.

TMS · Sep 17, 2016

KenAllan said:

Love includes all the laws, just because stealing was not mentioned or murder was not mentioned doesn't mean that i am free to do those sins.
Jesus said the law would remain until all (ALL) was fulfilled and He was referring to the ten commandments if you read it in context. Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Paul kept the Sabbath, Acts 13.
Isa 66 states that we will keep the Sabbath in the new heaven and earth. Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
James states that if we break 1 we are guilty of breaking them all. Jas_2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas_2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas_2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas_2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. (The Sabbath was one of those laws).
It is grace alone that saves us but Paul tells us that grace is not an excuse to make void the law.
Rom_3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom_3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom_7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom_7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Please understand that the Sabbath was created before sin and was not made for the Jews but made for mankind. God made it a commandment because He loves us, it is our blessing to obey. Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

TMS · Sep 17, 2016

pottersclay said:

"That's like opening the prison door for a prisoner but he refuses to leave the cell but confesses he a free man."
Not really - The door has been opened and i'm free to leave (my choice), and i'm free to sin, and transgress the law that put me in that prison (My choice). Just because the doors are open and the penalty has been paid do i continue to sin?
If i was let out for murder, Jesus paid the price for my life sentience, can i run free and continue to murder. To run free and obey Jesus and His holy example is what i desire to do.
To obey the law is to obey Jesus, The law represents love, God is love. The Law is holy and just and Good, Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. It is sin that holds us in bondage, not the law.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Get it in the right order and you are not serving two masters ... I love Jesus and my love for Him delights to serve and obey Him. That isn't serving 2 masters.

disciplemike · Sep 17, 2016

pottersclay said:

okay, no more bulls & goats for sins.
I think God says He always preferred obedience over sacrifice anyway.
the bulls & goats were only like a sin Band-Aid.

prove-all · Sep 17, 2016

pottersclay said:

are you sure any other sacrifice not needed?

Romans 12:1 (KJV)
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies
a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

1 Peter 2:5 (KJV)
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood,
to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:16 (KJV)
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1 Corinthians 6:19 (KJV)
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you,
which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1 Corinthians 3:17 (KJV)
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy;
for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

2 Corinthians 6:16 (KJV)
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple
of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them;
and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

garee · Sep 17, 2016

It’s a noun. It means exactly what it says...a native or inhabitant of the city of Christ.

It I believe is one of those words that seemed to have lost its intended usefulness somewhere down the line.

Those terms ("brethren", "disciples", "apostles", "servants", "believers", "followers", "the faithful", "the elect", "the called", and "saints.") could be adjectives to describe the noun Christian. (...a native or inhabitant of the city of Christ). The name Christian he uses to describe himself as the founder.

By looking at the word called in “first called Christian” the word “called” in that verse is used nine times in the new testament. The idea that anyone but God did the calling I would be believe would be coming to a false conclusion .God uses words with intended meaning.

God purposed to first called His people Christian. The word Christian that God used has a meaning intended to fit right to central theme of the bible, ultimately his bride coming down prepared as a city in Revelation 21. .Christian without adding any other meaning to means residence to the city of Christ with its founder Christ as the foundation. The word is used the same way any other residents of a city are used in respect to its founder. Like the Philippians...a native or inhabitant of the city of Philippi named after its founder, or Thessalonians ...a native or inhabitant of the city of Philippi, e.t.c

He calls the heavenly city made up of born again Jews and Gentiles” Hephzibah” (my delight is in her). It is a symbolical name of Zion, as representing the Lord's favor toward her. I think that can be found in Isiah 62 where it speaks of the promised “new name” He did name His church, Christian, as to the residence thereof. .

KenAllan · Sep 17, 2016

1 Corinthians 9:20-21
[SUP]20 [/SUP]To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; [SUP]21 [/SUP]to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

Even Paul taught he was not under the Law. We are under the Law of Christ. Not the Law of the Old Testament.

pottersclay · Sep 17, 2016

prove-all said:

are you sure any other sacrifice not needed?

Romans 12:1 (KJV)
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies
a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

1 Peter 2:5 (KJV)
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood,
to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:16 (KJV)
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1 Corinthians 6:19 (KJV)
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you,
which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1 Corinthians 3:17 (KJV)
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy;
for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

2 Corinthians 6:16 (KJV)
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple
of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them;
and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Very sure.....can you explain what is taught here

prove-all · Sep 18, 2016

pottersclay said:

are you sure any other sacrifice not needed?
Romans 12:1......

pottersclay said:

pretty obvious verses say , that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice

mpaper345 · Sep 18, 2016

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

in them.
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.

Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

I have not been tricked,thank you Jesus for the Sabbath,a spiritual Sabbath,a spiritual rest,by the Holy Spirit,but some would not hear.

disciplemike · Sep 18, 2016

mpaper345 said:

We were taught lies, my friend.
The people of Colossae were learning to keep God's dietary laws and God's holy days, unlike their pagan neighbors. (v8).

We were taught it in reverse; a satanic trick.
The people of Colossae were being judged by their pagan neighbors because they WERE doing Bible things in Bible ways.
It is the truth.
Please, read the whole chapter without your preconceived ideas.

pottersclay · Sep 18, 2016

L

prove-all said:

And how do we do that?

Joidevivre · Sep 18, 2016

Being a woman of few words, how can I be tricked on the Sabbath when I live everyday as the Sabbath day. I continually worship - pray - listen for guidance - study the Word, and walk in His presence every day the same.

Now, just what could I do different on one specific day?

disciplemike · Sep 18, 2016

Joidevivre said:

Being a woman of few words, how can I be tricked on the Sabbath when I live everyday as the Sabbath day. I continually worship - pray - listen for guidance - study the Word, and walk in His presence every day the same.

Now, just what could I do different on one specific day?

perhaps honor God's choice?

Dan_473 · Sep 18, 2016

disciplemike said:

None of us do! and I mean this with all gentleness, but I think you've been tricked again.

one of the tricks and seductions of the hebrew roots movement is that hebrew language and culture is somehow more holy or godly than hellenistic language / culture.

(hellenistic = greek, from which our modern western culture is related)

Yeshua is better than Jesus

Yahweh is better than Ho Kyrios

Pentecost is replaced with the old hebrew name

I met one Roots person who actually believed (wrongly) that the NT was originally written in hebrew.

I'd love to talk about this in a calm, friendly fashion with you, Mike (or anyone)

disciplemike · Sep 18, 2016

Dan_473 said:

to begin, we need to understand that we are reading a TRANSLATION or a VERSION of the original Hebrew Scriptures. Some of the NT may have been written in Greek, but the writers are still Hebrews.

Also, if I remember correctly, you will only find the word "Scripture" used in reference to the NT only once. Every other time the word "Scripture" is used, it is referring mainly to the Old Testament.
That was a shocker when I first pondered that.
Feel free to discuss all you want.
Just don't do like some, and equal disagreement with hate.

History of the Sabbath - Have you been tricked?

Senior Member

Senior Member

pottersclay

Guest

Banned

pottersclay

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

pottersclay

Guest

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

pottersclay

Guest

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Banned