HIZIKYAH'S TOPIC: DID PAUL SIN [DESPITE BEING T DESIGNATED HUMAN EXAMPLE IN THE NT]?
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C
Well, it's personal against the Apostle Paul and God only knows which Apostle will be scratched off the list of writers of our New Covenant that The LORD CHOSE to write His Words for Him so we could read His thoughts after His ascension.
Things normally fall like dominos. Error breeds more error - every time. Like the principle of two parallel lines. If they're off just a 10th of a milimeter - down the road they'll be miles apart.
HRM throws Paul out!
That's ticks me off - but I'm sure none of you noticed.
Trying to laugh here.
Won't be the first time that someone fooled the heart right out of me but sure do pray that it's the last.
Gird up that heart - is all I got out of today - and better now then down a longer road of caring & sharing.
LORD, why'd you knock Paul down with Your presence and then call him and assign him to be Your 2nd main man?
Don't you know that You made a big mistake there and that he doesn't deserve to be in the same book with the others?
I guess Your not blameless after all and You got informed of that today - didn't You?
End of Rant.
Bring in the clowns. Sure could use some!
Things normally fall like dominos. Error breeds more error - every time. Like the principle of two parallel lines. If they're off just a 10th of a milimeter - down the road they'll be miles apart.
HRM throws Paul out!
That's ticks me off - but I'm sure none of you noticed.
Trying to laugh here.
Won't be the first time that someone fooled the heart right out of me but sure do pray that it's the last.
Gird up that heart - is all I got out of today - and better now then down a longer road of caring & sharing.
LORD, why'd you knock Paul down with Your presence and then call him and assign him to be Your 2nd main man?
Don't you know that You made a big mistake there and that he doesn't deserve to be in the same book with the others?
I guess Your not blameless after all and You got informed of that today - didn't You?
End of Rant.
Bring in the clowns. Sure could use some!
P
[SUP]1 Cor. 9:18 [/SUP]What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
[SUP]21 [/SUP]To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Your friend in Christ
pug32
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
[SUP]21 [/SUP]To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Your friend in Christ
pug32
C
Re: HIZIKYAH'S TOPIC: DID PAUL SIN [DESPITE BEING T DESIGNATED HUMAN EXAMPLE IN THE
Thank you for your kind words, Sis. Compassionate of you. I still have swollen ducts and feel like one of my brothers has died. I get to really caring and loving folks - I don't take anyone lightly.
But to remove 20 of the 28 chpts of the book of Acts and 13 Epistles from the N.T. is more than I can deal with.
If others can receive that from anyone and still make room for that - fine - but it's making a statement about Christ making a mistake choosing this Apostle to the Gentiles and putting ALL of GOD'S WORD in Question now to those that know enough to believe that the Whole Book is HIS WORD and HE can be Trusted 1000% to have left us one Book that testifies to Himself .... if He can create all that we see in just 6 days .... HE CAN PROTECT HIS BOOK and His People.
It's a cursed belief to throw out almost 14 books of the N.T. and it should not by any means be taken lightly.
If any sister or brother wants to drop me as a friend over this - well ......... like the old saying goes - "You Don't Lose a 'Friend'."
Whoever is not a friend to The One Who delivered The Word in it's entirety to us - is not a friend to His Sheep neither.
God help any that do reject His Apostles - any one of them. And I mean "GOD help them" because I can't and won't even try.
This has happened before with a friend of mine that I worked with ... so I know what you're saying and know what it's about and know why they discard Paul ... have seen this on the internet for 12 yrs and it grieves the life right out of me.
His Word is what we may be persecuted for and may one day give our lives for - so losing friends over this is just the beginning and the boot-camp that readies us for the days to come - to test our loyalty and trust in His Word, as we have in that Book and the books within it - just as we have been given it and it remains to this day.
I agree that this is our boot-camp days, readying us for the days to come and it can strengthen not weaken us to put our loyalties and our RESOLVE where they belong.
This is also part of the great falling away.
Thank you again. Your words have helped to get me to talk about the pain in my heart of hearts - talk therapy, Elin ~*~ Thank you ~ with His Love.
Thank you for your kind words, Sis. Compassionate of you. I still have swollen ducts and feel like one of my brothers has died. I get to really caring and loving folks - I don't take anyone lightly.
But to remove 20 of the 28 chpts of the book of Acts and 13 Epistles from the N.T. is more than I can deal with.
If others can receive that from anyone and still make room for that - fine - but it's making a statement about Christ making a mistake choosing this Apostle to the Gentiles and putting ALL of GOD'S WORD in Question now to those that know enough to believe that the Whole Book is HIS WORD and HE can be Trusted 1000% to have left us one Book that testifies to Himself .... if He can create all that we see in just 6 days .... HE CAN PROTECT HIS BOOK and His People.
It's a cursed belief to throw out almost 14 books of the N.T. and it should not by any means be taken lightly.
If any sister or brother wants to drop me as a friend over this - well ......... like the old saying goes - "You Don't Lose a 'Friend'."
Whoever is not a friend to The One Who delivered The Word in it's entirety to us - is not a friend to His Sheep neither.
God help any that do reject His Apostles - any one of them. And I mean "GOD help them" because I can't and won't even try.
This has happened before with a friend of mine that I worked with ... so I know what you're saying and know what it's about and know why they discard Paul ... have seen this on the internet for 12 yrs and it grieves the life right out of me.
His Word is what we may be persecuted for and may one day give our lives for - so losing friends over this is just the beginning and the boot-camp that readies us for the days to come - to test our loyalty and trust in His Word, as we have in that Book and the books within it - just as we have been given it and it remains to this day.
I agree that this is our boot-camp days, readying us for the days to come and it can strengthen not weaken us to put our loyalties and our RESOLVE where they belong.
This is also part of the great falling away.
Thank you again. Your words have helped to get me to talk about the pain in my heart of hearts - talk therapy, Elin ~*~ Thank you ~ with His Love.
Re: HIZIKYAH'S TOPIC: DID PAUL SIN [DESPITE BEING T DESIGNATED HUMAN EXAMPLE IN THE
I get called out, and am serious about reading and seeking truth in Scripture, stand on the Messiah words, and if there SEEMS to be a discrepancy I go with Messiah, and you guys talk about me like that, really? I am stronger in following Messiah thatn I have ever been, but because I will not wist Paul's writing into Lawlessness, like Peter warns of IM talked about like this.... are we seeking truth or comfort? Or just to be able to talk down on another without actually saying their name? KNOW I speak very openly, know I am not angry, weakened, or anything of that nature, but surprised I guess,
John 7:16-17 "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching--whether it comes from Yahweh, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."
I get called out, and am serious about reading and seeking truth in Scripture, stand on the Messiah words, and if there SEEMS to be a discrepancy I go with Messiah, and you guys talk about me like that, really? I am stronger in following Messiah thatn I have ever been, but because I will not wist Paul's writing into Lawlessness, like Peter warns of IM talked about like this.... are we seeking truth or comfort? Or just to be able to talk down on another without actually saying their name? KNOW I speak very openly, know I am not angry, weakened, or anything of that nature, but surprised I guess,
John 7:16-17 "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching--whether it comes from Yahweh, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."
Who would have know the great falling away would be listening to the one we must hear and obey?
Is it heresy or falling away to believe this, that is written in the final message to mankind?
Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."
King James Bible
Revelation 22:12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Is it heresy or falling away to believe this, that is written in the final message to mankind?
Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."
King James Bible
Revelation 22:12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
I believe It is those that think Paul taught not to follow the Law of the Creator is what is causing the error...
Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."
Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."
Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you, yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."
Romans 7:7, Shall we therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet."
Romans 7:12, "Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous."
Ephesians 6:2-3, "Honor your father and mother; which is the first commandment with a promise: That it may be well with you, and you may live long on the earth."
Galatians 3:13,(KJV) "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the Law, being made a curse for us, for it is written, Cursed is everyone who hangeth on a tree."
2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."
I want to point out that the words that are in italics are ADDED:
Ephesians 2:15-16, (NKJV), "having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. "
Not only odes the next verse tell us what was abolished, but when you remove the ADDED words the meaning changes.
Ephesians 2:15-16, "Abolishing the enmity Law, the Commandments, and the Ordinances, through His own flesh, in order to create in Himself one new man from the two; making peace, That would reconcile both in one body to Yahweh through the sacrifice--having killed the enmity through Himself."
enmity is:
Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
Feminine of G2190; hostility; by implication a reason for opposition:—enmity, hatred.
He abolished the hatred of the Law;
Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."
Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the Law."
Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."
Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."
Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you, yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."
Romans 7:7, Shall we therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet."
Romans 7:12, "Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous."
Ephesians 6:2-3, "Honor your father and mother; which is the first commandment with a promise: That it may be well with you, and you may live long on the earth."
Galatians 3:13,(KJV) "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the Law, being made a curse for us, for it is written, Cursed is everyone who hangeth on a tree."
2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."
I want to point out that the words that are in italics are ADDED:
Ephesians 2:15-16, (NKJV), "having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. "
Not only odes the next verse tell us what was abolished, but when you remove the ADDED words the meaning changes.
Ephesians 2:15-16, "Abolishing the enmity Law, the Commandments, and the Ordinances, through His own flesh, in order to create in Himself one new man from the two; making peace, That would reconcile both in one body to Yahweh through the sacrifice--having killed the enmity through Himself."
enmity is:
Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
Feminine of G2190; hostility; by implication a reason for opposition:—enmity, hatred.
He abolished the hatred of the Law;
Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."
Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the Law."
Re: HIZIKYAH'S TOPIC: DID PAUL SIN [DESPITE BEING T DESIGNATED HUMAN EXAMPLE IN THE
1Timothy 1:15 …14and the grace of our Lord was more than abundant, with the faith and love which are found in Christ Jesus. 15It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. 16Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.…
1Timothy 1:15 …14and the grace of our Lord was more than abundant, with the faith and love which are found in Christ Jesus. 15It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. 16Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.…
Where does he talk about teaches after mentioning Paul?
He says, "which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures"
And where is "the second coming" talked about?
My words will be in (bold)
2 peter 3:15-17,
"And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters."
(Context so far "Paul's letters")
"There are some things in them that are hard to understand,"
(Some things in his letters are hard to understand)
"which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures."
(Which those not learned in the word twist to error as they do all Scripture)
"You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."
(You knowing this, because Peter just told you, make sure not to get carried away into Lawlessness)
PLEASE if I made an error in my understand/breakdown, please line by line correct me?
2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."
He says, "which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures"
And where is "the second coming" talked about?
My words will be in (bold)
2 peter 3:15-17,
"And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters."
(Context so far "Paul's letters")
"There are some things in them that are hard to understand,"
(Some things in his letters are hard to understand)
"which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures."
(Which those not learned in the word twist to error as they do all Scripture)
"You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."
(You knowing this, because Peter just told you, make sure not to get carried away into Lawlessness)
PLEASE if I made an error in my understand/breakdown, please line by line correct me?
2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."
You are being called out, not for "serious about reading and seeking truth in Scripture, stand on the Messiah words, and if there SEEMS to be a discrepancy I go with Messiah", but for your failure to consider all related scriptures to find the truth. Rather than post the scriptures that support your understanding, integrate those which conflict with your understanding into your study, and you will find the real truth.
Hiz, people just find your idea about Paul problematic, because it creates problems with preservation of the Word of God.
I am honestly surprised that you believe that God would allow a false apostle to take the most place in the New Testament? And to be taught for centuries and centuries to all His sheep, and God allowing the sheep to be taught falsely and not knowing this for 2000 years... then suddenly remember after 2000 years and start revealing to rare individuals to discard whatever Paul has written because he is a false teacher. It makes no sense, that is just not how God operates. That would make God a deceiver. Also, Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles. How did God save the Gentile believers, if He sent a liar to them?
Hope you see that this isnt personal strife or anything like that, the idea that Paul is false is just hard to accept because it results in the above reasoning. If the Bible is not preserved and lies have been mixed into it, why should we believe anything in it? You are my brother because you believe Jesus and I'll treat you the same no matter what, you know already that we have disagreements on some things, this never made me hate you. There are problems with this teaching about Paul - I am only trying to bring closer to you why many dont agree and why they are being so emphatic about it. It challenges the preservation of the Word of God, which is the foundation of our faith. Either it was fully preserved at all times, or God allowed His people to believe a lie.
What people are saying above all is that there is no discrepancy whatsoever in the Word of God (He is not a sower of confusion). As Elin pointed out earlier, if it seems discrepant or verse against verse, our understanding is wrong. Praise God for this. Bible is full of paradoxes, He uses them in order to make us think spiritually and not carnally, and also, by resolving of paradoxes is exactly how we know we're onto the truth. Per example, Jesus says that we need to die in order to live. Carnally understood, this is a contradiction. But proper spiritual understanding resolves this paradox and reveals the truth: there is no contradiction anymore.
Some more about discrepancies. A simple non-doctrinal example (in order not to create debate) and fun Bible trivia: the robe of Jesus prior to crucifixion was said to be purple in the gospel of John and Mark and red in Matthew, twice in each. Seems discrepant? Yes. Atheist yell, contradiction! Is the Bible really in error? No, both are true, we just need to expand our understanding and knowledge in order to grasp the paradox. If we actually look into what color it was - tyrian purple, the rare and very expensive pigment, extracted from a seashell, that was used to dye kingly robes - it could be pretty much reddish kind of purple similar to blood. Also, it could have been Jesus' blood of many beatings that made the robe scarlet. Here is how that pigment actually looks like, it leans towards cherry red:
Paul NEVER advocated "do whatever you want". Although there might be people with itchy ears who twist Scriptures to their own liking. And Paul also said this:
Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
I am honestly surprised that you believe that God would allow a false apostle to take the most place in the New Testament? And to be taught for centuries and centuries to all His sheep, and God allowing the sheep to be taught falsely and not knowing this for 2000 years... then suddenly remember after 2000 years and start revealing to rare individuals to discard whatever Paul has written because he is a false teacher. It makes no sense, that is just not how God operates. That would make God a deceiver. Also, Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles. How did God save the Gentile believers, if He sent a liar to them?
Hope you see that this isnt personal strife or anything like that, the idea that Paul is false is just hard to accept because it results in the above reasoning. If the Bible is not preserved and lies have been mixed into it, why should we believe anything in it? You are my brother because you believe Jesus and I'll treat you the same no matter what, you know already that we have disagreements on some things, this never made me hate you. There are problems with this teaching about Paul - I am only trying to bring closer to you why many dont agree and why they are being so emphatic about it. It challenges the preservation of the Word of God, which is the foundation of our faith. Either it was fully preserved at all times, or God allowed His people to believe a lie.
What people are saying above all is that there is no discrepancy whatsoever in the Word of God (He is not a sower of confusion). As Elin pointed out earlier, if it seems discrepant or verse against verse, our understanding is wrong. Praise God for this. Bible is full of paradoxes, He uses them in order to make us think spiritually and not carnally, and also, by resolving of paradoxes is exactly how we know we're onto the truth. Per example, Jesus says that we need to die in order to live. Carnally understood, this is a contradiction. But proper spiritual understanding resolves this paradox and reveals the truth: there is no contradiction anymore.
Some more about discrepancies. A simple non-doctrinal example (in order not to create debate) and fun Bible trivia: the robe of Jesus prior to crucifixion was said to be purple in the gospel of John and Mark and red in Matthew, twice in each. Seems discrepant? Yes. Atheist yell, contradiction! Is the Bible really in error? No, both are true, we just need to expand our understanding and knowledge in order to grasp the paradox. If we actually look into what color it was - tyrian purple, the rare and very expensive pigment, extracted from a seashell, that was used to dye kingly robes - it could be pretty much reddish kind of purple similar to blood. Also, it could have been Jesus' blood of many beatings that made the robe scarlet. Here is how that pigment actually looks like, it leans towards cherry red:
Paul NEVER advocated "do whatever you want". Although there might be people with itchy ears who twist Scriptures to their own liking. And Paul also said this:
Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
P
and if the Holy Spirit doesn't give understanding right away, there's always Ps 131
O Lord, my heart is not proud, nor my eyes haughty;
Nor do I involve myself in great matters,
Or in things too difficult for me. Surely I have composed and quieted my soul;
Like a weaned child rests against his mother,
My soul is like a weaned child within me.
O Israel, hope in the LORD
From this time forth and forever.
we can afford to be patient...God will not forsake us.
O Lord, my heart is not proud, nor my eyes haughty;
Nor do I involve myself in great matters,
Or in things too difficult for me. Surely I have composed and quieted my soul;
Like a weaned child rests against his mother,
My soul is like a weaned child within me.
O Israel, hope in the LORD
From this time forth and forever.
we can afford to be patient...God will not forsake us.
I have to reply to that before I read the rest, you and others are putting that on me, it is false testimony and I am bothered by that.
I think Paul writes in a was that can be confusing to one who does not know all Scripture, I also think Paul made errors just like I think Abraham, Moses, Jacob, Jonah, Matt, John, James, etc made errors, ONLY Yahshua did not make errors. That is not to say Scripture is wrong but rather I believe Yahsua words are the purest and most "efficient"
Why does no one FREAK out when I say Moses made errors?
Is that not uneven and raising one above another?
I think Paul writes in a was that can be confusing to one who does not know all Scripture, I also think Paul made errors just like I think Abraham, Moses, Jacob, Jonah, Matt, John, James, etc made errors, ONLY Yahshua did not make errors. That is not to say Scripture is wrong but rather I believe Yahsua words are the purest and most "efficient"
Why does no one FREAK out when I say Moses made errors?
Is that not uneven and raising one above another?
I have read Foxes book of martyrs, I know Paul had his head cut off because he would not bow to Rome....
So here is a problem I have...
So how many different manuscripts of a certain book have discrepancies?
am I evil if I seek the most reliable one?
Some minor some not so minor.
1 John 5:7 For there are three which testify: 8 The Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three are of one accord."
Verses 5:7-8 -- In the King James Version and later renditions ofthe Latin Vulgate, the received Greek and Latin texts include the words: “ ...In heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth... ”. This text concerning the heavenly witness is not contained in any authentic Greek manuscript written earlier than the Fifteenth Century of this current era. It does not appear in any of the oldest Greek manuscripts; neither does it even appear in the earliest Latin translations. This text is not cited by any of the Greek or early Latin writers, even when the subject they wrote of would naturally have led them to appeal to its authority. The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, Page 803, The Jerusalem Bible, New Testament, Page 419. Other scholars and researchers have frankly admitted that these words are a deliberate forgery that was never a part of the original inspired Holy Scriptures.
So am I super evil and doubting God for seeking out if this is true or not?
Or am I being a diligent child seeking His truth?
Think about that for a second? (selah)
DO I only trust God if I read the "Authorized version" aka KJV?
what if I believe that a certain branch of manuscripts is more reliable than another branch of munuscrits, do I not trust the Creator?
What I see, and Im going to be up front, because im getting called ALL kinds of false things that if can not be proven are false witness, and i NEVER get apologies.... what I see is many people who do not diligently seek and if the first thing they heard or the first translation they got is not true then everyone is evil anbd everyone is wrong besides them...
In the Spirit huh?
Lets think about this, you knw who replaced the name "YHWH" with "the Lord"?
The pharisees......
So im supposedly a judaizer because guess what I dont obey the pharisess and cease to speak His name....
You know who is following the Pharisees in ceasing to say His name? Everyone accusing me....
This is a microcosm... if you dont care about what He thinks in this matter do you care in any other matter?
LOL if one cant get past something so simple how will they ever grow on to important matters in the word?
Now I know Im SO SO evil for speaking His name right, and OHHH NOOO he said other should spaek it to hes a justified by works judgmental donkey....
and please before you say im going overboard, I have had more then a few people PM me and tell me to stop using it, some asked too...
and they "departed" saying I was in error because I would not cease....
Tell me is His Name important to Him?
Exodus 20:7, "You shall not take the Name of Yahweh your strength to bring it to nothing, for Yahweh will not hold him guiltless who brings it to nothing."
7723 - shav
shav: emptiness, vanity - Original Word: שָׁוְא - Part of Speech: Noun Masculine - Transliteration: shav - Phonetic Spelling: (shawv) - Short Definition: vain
Yeremyah 23:26-27, "How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Yes, they are prophets of the deceit of their own minds plan and scheme, to cause My people to forget My Name through their dreams, which they tell every man to his neighbor, just as their fathers have forgotten My Name for Baal."
Micahyah (Micah) 4:5, "For all people walk each in the name of his god, but we will walk in the Name of Yahweh our Father forever and ever."
Listen I know I dont always word things nicely or the best way, but some of the people on here are some of the most judgemental and false accusing believers I have ever met.
So here is a problem I have...
So how many different manuscripts of a certain book have discrepancies?
am I evil if I seek the most reliable one?
Some minor some not so minor.
1 John 5:7 For there are three which testify: 8 The Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three are of one accord."
Verses 5:7-8 -- In the King James Version and later renditions ofthe Latin Vulgate, the received Greek and Latin texts include the words: “ ...In heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth... ”. This text concerning the heavenly witness is not contained in any authentic Greek manuscript written earlier than the Fifteenth Century of this current era. It does not appear in any of the oldest Greek manuscripts; neither does it even appear in the earliest Latin translations. This text is not cited by any of the Greek or early Latin writers, even when the subject they wrote of would naturally have led them to appeal to its authority. The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, Page 803, The Jerusalem Bible, New Testament, Page 419. Other scholars and researchers have frankly admitted that these words are a deliberate forgery that was never a part of the original inspired Holy Scriptures.
So am I super evil and doubting God for seeking out if this is true or not?
Or am I being a diligent child seeking His truth?
Think about that for a second? (selah)
DO I only trust God if I read the "Authorized version" aka KJV?
what if I believe that a certain branch of manuscripts is more reliable than another branch of munuscrits, do I not trust the Creator?
What I see, and Im going to be up front, because im getting called ALL kinds of false things that if can not be proven are false witness, and i NEVER get apologies.... what I see is many people who do not diligently seek and if the first thing they heard or the first translation they got is not true then everyone is evil anbd everyone is wrong besides them...
In the Spirit huh?
Lets think about this, you knw who replaced the name "YHWH" with "the Lord"?
The pharisees......
So im supposedly a judaizer because guess what I dont obey the pharisess and cease to speak His name....
You know who is following the Pharisees in ceasing to say His name? Everyone accusing me....
This is a microcosm... if you dont care about what He thinks in this matter do you care in any other matter?
LOL if one cant get past something so simple how will they ever grow on to important matters in the word?
Now I know Im SO SO evil for speaking His name right, and OHHH NOOO he said other should spaek it to hes a justified by works judgmental donkey....
and please before you say im going overboard, I have had more then a few people PM me and tell me to stop using it, some asked too...
and they "departed" saying I was in error because I would not cease....
Tell me is His Name important to Him?
Exodus 20:7, "You shall not take the Name of Yahweh your strength to bring it to nothing, for Yahweh will not hold him guiltless who brings it to nothing."
7723 - shav
shav: emptiness, vanity - Original Word: שָׁוְא - Part of Speech: Noun Masculine - Transliteration: shav - Phonetic Spelling: (shawv) - Short Definition: vain
Yeremyah 23:26-27, "How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Yes, they are prophets of the deceit of their own minds plan and scheme, to cause My people to forget My Name through their dreams, which they tell every man to his neighbor, just as their fathers have forgotten My Name for Baal."
Micahyah (Micah) 4:5, "For all people walk each in the name of his god, but we will walk in the Name of Yahweh our Father forever and ever."
Listen I know I dont always word things nicely or the best way, but some of the people on here are some of the most judgemental and false accusing believers I have ever met.
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