HIZIKYAH'S TOPIC: DID PAUL SIN [DESPITE BEING T DESIGNATED HUMAN EXAMPLE IN THE NT]?

[Hizikyah]

But God has appointed teachers (1Co 12:29) for his people because we need them.

Many teachers, one poimen (Shepard/Pastor)

Ephesians 4:11, "And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors (4166. poimén) and teachers,"

John 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd (4166. poimén)."

John 10:27-30, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; neither will any man snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who gave them to Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand: I and My Father are in accord."

John 7:16-17 "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching--whether it comes from Yahweh, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."

"he will know about this teaching" why? Because YHWH doesn't change...

However others do...

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."

 

[Hizikyah]

Well Mr Atwood, I hope you're happy now.

I woke up this morning with a jo from Yah, strongly, and then I found this thread.... I knew what time it was.

 

[ISeeYou]

Yes, Sis - I know .... I cut things short after that long post ...

Rom 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Rom 3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Rom 3:5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
Rom 3:6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
Rom 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?


But I've yet to read anything of Paul that would deem him a 'sinner' - not even Phil 3:7-20.
I was just reading this before seeing your post ...

2Co 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
2Co 13:2 I told you before, and foretell you, as if I were present, the second time; and being absent now I write to them which heretofore have sinned, and to all other, that, if I come again, I will not spare:
2Co 13:3 Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you.
2Co 13:4 For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.
2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
2Co 13:6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.
2Co 13:7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.
2Co 13:8 For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.
2Co 13:9 For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection.
2Co 13:10 Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction.
2Co 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2Cor 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

2Tim 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.




Romans 6 etc. etc. etc. - Paul preached 'perfection' & holiness and how could he, unless he had lived that life himself?
I believe that he said that he did, in the long post about him, earlier.


I don't believe that the latter part of Romans 7 was Paul speaking present tense after reading chpt 6 and 8 and all else that Paul had written.

I do love Phil 3:7-20 and seeing the diiferent Greek words for 'perfect' and their different definitions elsewhere.
I do think Paul was 'perfect' in the sense of Phil 3:15, lest he couldn't write that verse - nor these ...

1Co 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible [crown].
1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

2Ti 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
2Ti 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
2Ti 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.





God Bless you!!

God bless you too sis!

I think you brought in his lie and Elin his blamelessness, but when Paul speaks of the two things they are in separate accounts in respects to two different things, both of them would have to be true, and shouldnt have to be pitted against, but its always about how to recconcile a thing and thats what I sought was to recconcile these both as being true but I never touched on the blameless part.

For example, Paul write,

Philp 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

That was not blameless in love, or faith expressing itself in love (obviously)

Jesus even called them blameless, its not as they were not profaining it but they did.

Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

Or before that in verse 4,

Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?

So theses too are blameless

Then there were others like Zacharias and Elizabeth who were walking in the commandments and ordinances who are referred to as blameless in the same.

Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

But even if we would set the blamelessness which he might have been through the law aside (in whatever way that might mean) given the examples, a deacon/minister ought to be blameless also.

What happens is online is people start accumulating their crap on Paul and then just shoot it out at him as if its honest questioning, but the amount of it shows thats what has been festering against him (in them) for quite awhile. Since Paul does say some things which are hard to understand (as Peter acknowleged) and most christians are off talking on their face book accounts theres not too many equipped to handle someone elses unhealthy studious (vendetta like passions) against the apostle. Except what? One man three women trying to pull together while the other has a bunch of men cheerleaders I personally see this as trying to make a name for oneself while trying to sabotage peoples faith by going after one of the apostles of our Lord.

Theres nothing wrong with copy pasting things where you can help others with connections (even if just to help equip the body better, so as to help build up anothers faith ) but thats kind of hard these days, because its like you have those of your own number standing up just to go after an apostle of our Lord Jesus Christ.

All the copy pasting only goes to show all the time he has apparently invested to bring in doubts concerning Paul, and this has obviously been building up for a long time.

Tossing out a scripture at folks gets you to bite, just to set a trap to spring on you according to how one reasons against Paul.

Well, I have seen God rescue Paul out of the lions mouth (even today) might not always happen in that given moment, as we should always study to answer (even as apparently this non Pauline movement might study to answer against the apostles). Im sure took some time to wrest and build the same against Paul.

Sometimes you cant answer something right away though, because sometimes you havent taken something into consideration according to a specific angle someone else might be coming in at (concerning a thing). So sometimes you need time to untwist the thinking, and untangle it and lay it out where he will not contradict and Ive have seen that happen so often where someones line of thinking (against) where they made it contradict be overturned and made straight. Thats your Holy Ghost teacher there.

God bless you sis

 

[kennethcadwell]

I was using the word blame and razzing Elin, I wouldnt take me doing so very seriously

I wasn't taking it seriously, or trying to sound like I was getting on to you.
Sorry if that is the way you took it, as I was asking if you knew why Paul was blaming Peter in Galatians.

 

[ChristIsGod]

Well Mr Atwood, I hope you're happy now.

Coward. But I don't miss his large colored font insane looking posts, neither.


But to Hizikyah --- I was as fired up upset and teary eyed the minute I saw the thread title but I got to posting to you because of this post http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-designated-human-example-nt.html#post1849938


Can you understand why?

 

[ChristIsGod]

And I haven't the foggiest idea what you're saying here Sis "I see you" ...

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...esignated-human-example-nt-9.html#post1850713



Bad day at black rock - that's all that I know right now.



1Co 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
1Co 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
1Co 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
1Co 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
1Co 3:8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
1Co 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
1Co 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
1Co 3:20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
1Co 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
1Co 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
1Co 3:23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

 

[ISeeYou]

I wasn't taking it seriously, or trying to sound like I was getting on to you.
Sorry if that is the way you took it, as I was asking if you knew why Paul was blaming Peter in Galatians.

Thats one thing I run into alot on this forum, "do you know this"? And for what purpose? To argue what I know or dont know? LOL I dont often like to answer those type of questions just because I might not come in at it in the same way as another or in the context of the thread and because I see things in patterns sometimes the persons question just seems out of place often.

This is how I regard it after an offense to Christ, for example,

Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Jesus starts speaking of his cross,

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me

Why?

For thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Just as Jesus speaks of the cross Paul says this...

And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.

Now Peter here

But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

For before that certain came from James, he (Peter)did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

Fear of man bringeth a snare and the offense unto Christ in that mind

And said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan Thou art an offence unto me:

For thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Again, Fear of man brings a snare

And Peter fearing them which were of the circumcision.

And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution?

then is the offence of the cross ceased.

I gotta make dinner but I really want to be done with this thread, if you dont see anything in it, then you dont, no biggy, Im not going to argue over these things.

 

[ISeeYou]

And I haven't the foggiest idea what you're saying here Sis "I see you" ...

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...esignated-human-example-nt-9.html#post1850713



Bad day at black rock - that's all that I know right now.



1Co 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
1Co 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
1Co 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
1Co 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
1Co 3:8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
1Co 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
1Co 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
1Co 3:20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
1Co 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
1Co 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
1Co 3:23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

Thats ok, just pass over me if I make no sense, I have to get dinner started and Im kind of rushing around, and really wanting to get off this thread, anyway its perfect you dont then.

 

[Hizikyah]

Coward. But I don't miss his large colored font insane looking posts, neither.


But to Hizikyah --- I was as fired up upset and teary eyed the minute I saw the thread title but I got to posting to you because of this post http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-designated-human-example-nt.html#post1849938


Can you understand why?

I logged back in real fast, when I read your post... I did not start this thread as I know this topic is a bit much for most people, but when someone paints you in a certain way, especially amongst followers I must respond, I multiply that by the guidance I have had the past 2 days, It is stronger than I have ever felt it, so I without a doubt know that this thread was supposed to happen, truth is all I care for, if I am in error may Yahweh correct me, hopefully gently but if it has to be hash so be it, however with His guidance leading me in this matter, I fell comfort from Him not fear or uncertainty......I fully understand, im one who seeks truth over anything, that is why I will explore every angle, if I dont how will I ever find truth... If you seek Messiah I love you and over the net anyone can say anything so this maybe empty or maybe not, depends how you take it, but know that I seek to follow Messiah in truth, He is "the prophet we must hear and obey." I want to follow Him.

 

[Hizikyah]

John 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

"White stone of acquittal"

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

"Black stone of judgement"

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

No matter what happens in my life I can say I promoted the words of the one we must shamah.
....and in this world that is about the only thing I can say I feel right about.

 

[ChristIsGod]

Thats ok, just pass over me if I make no sense, I have to get dinner started and Im kind of rushing around, and really wanting to get off this thread, anyway its perfect you dont then.

I was supposed to clean my OWN apt today but instead, from the time I signed on here, except for the one post to "word of faith" you can see what I did all day today here http://christianchat.com/search.php?searchid=865258

ALL DAY I've been reading and grieving and reading and grieving. Don't take it personal Sis, because I do understand.

The problem is - I understand BOTH SIDES and that's why I'm a wreck now. Gotta go pop some heart pills before I get an early out off of this dang-blasted planet.

Bon appetite!
with His Love.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also should have mentioned in my last post that it wasn't just post 11 - but 12 & 13 as well that dropped me today and dropped my house cleaning too.

And the pain that this thread has caused to some dear Sister and not just me but maybe for different reasons.

I should have just left it at my first post to this thread and left the forum for a Season.


RED ~ and even some BIG font ~

Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as "I am the apostle of the Gentiles", I magnify mine office:
Rom 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

 

[Elin]

Many teachers, one poimen (Shepard/Pastor)

Ephesians 4:11, "And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and
some as pastors (4166. poimén) and teachers,"

Actually, multiple pastors.

 

[Hizikyah]

Many teachers, one poimen (Shepard/Pastor)

Ephesians 4:11, "And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors (4166. poimén) and teachers,"

John 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd (4166. poimén)."

Actually, multiple pastors.

I should have not logged back in...

Why did you cut His words out of my quote? Is that you trying to tell me something or what?

I guess if you strike the words of Messiah from the record than yeah more than one, but according to Him only one poimen:

John 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd (4166. poimén)."

Hiz out.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Was Paul a human born in sinful flesh?

or

Was Paul infallible?

 

[Elin]

I wasn't taking it seriously, or trying to sound like I was getting on to you.
Sorry if that is the way you took it, as I was asking
if you knew why Paul was blaming Peter in Galatians.

Actually Paul is quite clear about why he blamed Peter.

Peter had succumbed to pressure from the Judaizers and had quit living in line with the gospel,
by not eating with Gentiles.

Peter lived like a Gentile (did not observe Jewish dietary restrictions, 2:12) but then went back
to living like a Jew (separating himself from the Gentiles) because of the Judaizers.

So Paul challenges him for living like a Gentile himself, but requiring Gentiles to live
like Jews because of the Judaizers (2:14).

 

[Elin]

Im a grafted in Israylite, and
I only read Scripture,

God has appointed teachers (1Co 12:29) for the body because we need them.

Many teachers, one poimen (Shepard/Pastor)

Ephesians 4:11, "And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors (4166. poimén) and teachers,"

John 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd (4166. poimén)."

Actually, multiple pastor/teachers.

I should have not logged back in...

Why did you cut His words out of my quote? Is that you trying to tell me something or what?

I guess if you strike the words of Messiah from the record than yeah more than one,
but according to Him only one poimen:

The teachers of 1Co 12:29 are didaskalos, not poimen.

God has appointed multiple teachers for the body because we need them.

 

[psychomom]

Re: HIZIKYAH'S TOPIC: DID PAUL SIN [DESPITE BEING T DESIGNATED HUMAN EXAMPLE IN THE

does anyone else see this possible problem...?

if we reject certain Words of Scripture...if we say we will stick to the Words of Jesus...

what we're really saying is we trust Matthew, Mark, Luke and John as 'amanuenses'
more than other writers...aren't we?

either they're ALL the Words of Jesus, or none are...right?

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Was Paul a human born in sinful flesh?

or

Was Paul infallible?

Sorry . . . I see how ignorant my post was - this is speaking of Paul getting scripture wrong - right? Paul received revelation from Jesus Christ . . . how could his scripture be wrong.

Man, I hope I didn't blunder again . . . .

 

[Elin]

Im a grafted in Israylite, and
I only read Scripture,

God has appointed teachers (1Co 12:29) for the body because we need them.

Many teachers, one poimen (Shepard/Pastor)

Ephesians 4:11, "And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors (4166. poimén) and teachers,"

John 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd (4166. poimén).

"Actually, multiple pastor/teachers.

The teachers of 1Co 12:29 are didaskalos, not poimen.

God has appointed multiple teachers for the body because we need them.

Hizzi, I think I did not fully understand that your point was
1) while there are many teachers,
2) there is only one shepherd.

So let me address those:

1) Yes, only Jesus is the Good Shepherd, and the Chief Shepherd,
but that does not negate the need for teachers in the body.

2) And Jesus appointed Peter to be shepherd of his flock when he told Peter to feed his lambs,
and take care of his sheep (Jn 21:15-16), which is the meaning and function of a shepherd (poimen).

Jesus did not intend that only he would be shepherd of his sheep.

And then Peter accordingly appointed further shepherds of the flock of God (1Pe 5:2-4).

God has appointed many shepherds as well as many teachers for the flock because we need them.

 

[weakness]

​I have looked back several pages to see whats going on. But, although understanding whats being said, It does't go any where. What you guys point? What is the basis of your discussion? I kinda know but not really. Is this all personal or inter whatever?