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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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for sure all of the sacrifices are shadows of Christ, God giving Himself as a Lamb to atone for. our aim and sanctify forever all whose trust is in Him.

but it's nonsense to say He never commanded any sacrifice; misinterpretimf Jeremiah 7 is claiming scripture contradicts itself.
Leviticus 23:37-38​
These are the feasts of the LORD which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire to the LORD, a burnt offering and a grain offering, a sacrifice and drink offerings, everything on its day— besides the sabbaths of the LORD, besides your gifts, besides all your vows, and besides all your freewill offerings which you give to the LORD.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Next we come to First fruits.Lev. 23:10
Although some are willing to jump up and say, "YOUR WRONG" it may be in your mind, not in mine, and you will see why just keep reading. This is without much debate a feast that points to Yeshua being risen from the grave. Yes I know Tomb, same so oh same oh.
It is with this in mind that MANY follow First fruits is held on the 18th of Abib, known today as Nissan. By seeing it in this manner we place Yeshua's resurrection on the 3rd day after His crucifixion.
yes, He was crucified on Pascha at the same time the national lamb was slain in the temple, and rose on Shavuot, the 3rd day, the day after the weekly sabbath.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Now we have seen that HaShem told us He didn't command Israel to give offerings.
No,

we have seen that you misinterpreted Jeremiah 7

Exodus 40:29​
And he put the altar of burnt offering before the door of the tabernacle of the tent of meeting, and offered upon it the burnt offering and the grain offering, as the LORD had commanded Moses.
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
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I came so close to posting something that I may have regretted later down the road. The following is a revised version of that post.
I came to this forum seeking answers. I found out so much about today's religion that explains a lot.
First I found that it seems we have a following of church doctrine over the True Word. As has been made clear in almost every thread I opened. As if your church doctrine holds more truth.
Second, it seems that being a true follower of the True Word, must be shunned at all cost.
The True Word is clear on this, and the words made me ask. Do I truly know? Or am I following what tickles the ear? 2Tim. 4:3-4
Not an exact quote mind you. However it does convey the same idea, and understanding.
As not many people on here has the spirit of worrier as the Word is clear we are called to be, or has the fortitude to even try, I feel for you all. You will be in my prayers in hopes that HaShem, or Yahovah will find a way to lead you to truth. His Truth.
Yeshua when he called out the Pharisees may well have been speaking to religious leaders of today. Again not an exact quote. What he said not an easy thing to swallow.
He called the sons of Satan, hypocrites, teaching man's doctrine as if it was HaShems own. Mat.15:7-9
What so many on here wish to do is push away any that see things in a different light. Wishing to persent themselves as knowing more than they really do. Yet when pressed on a topic, they say they know so well, can't or won't even try to make the other see how they are wrong. It's kind of like telling some one they were speeding, when they were doing 35 in a 40mile an hour zone. You say it, yet when asked your only reply is, Because I said so. Ok not in those words, yet by not engaging on a topic you brought forth, you may as well say it that way.
So now I ask you, if you wish to be the teacher you are in your own mind, why hide from it?
Rather than turn to name calling, belittlement, or be dismissive, why not engage? It gives you the chance to teach, and learn. Yet on here it as though the one that stands a lone prevails simply by asking how your teaching is in context with the Whole of the Word. As for myself, I welcome any challenge to my understanding. As it opens the door to seeing how I may be wrong. That in turns makes me a better teacher, and student.
What it doesn't do is show how right I am. You see once we take on the thinking of ME, MY CHURCH, and so on, we leave the True Word behind in favor of my thoughts, my church, and so on.
As true followers, we should have a hunger to learn, and a thirst for truth. Though for many the quest for understanding stops at the door of their church. They don't study the word, and many don't read it at all. Oh they have it with them, and may even open it when the pastor gives a passage. Then they just blindly follow what ever is told to them.
Once more, in closing, I came here to learn more than I think I know. I came to seek truth. Something that is not forthcoming in a place that one would think it should be. If one follows what the Word truly says, they are called names, belittled, and so on. Yet nothing of substance is ever offered up.
I have seen people say they know the Word, and have mesmerized most of the Bible, or N.T. That's all good, if you have a true understanding of it. Yet is made pointless if you know it, and don't follow it. So will someone please explain to me, why do say you hold more understanding, yet are so unwilling to debate most topics, when you see something wrong with a teaching or understanding?
This site is a perfect sampling of modern “Christendom”. Most have no clue because they hear not the shepherd and they avoid proper labor because they hate the light.

It’s awful but, we can find comfort even in the majority’s heresy because the sovereign Christ foretold it. All is according to plan.

Let those who have ears, hear and those who hear not be given over to satan that perhaps one day they will repent and believe.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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As we know, Yeshua made it clear that until Heaven and earth are done away, (not exact wording) not one jot or tittle will pass from the law. So I ask, how does the understanding of the Law being removed follow those words from Yeshua?
There is however one thing that may work here, do you know of what Law He is speaking? Trust me it isn't the whole of the Torah. As I will make clear in my next post tomorrow.
The Law has NOT been removed, it is in full force which is why people will perish WITHOUT Jesus Christ as their Savior.

Jesus Christ ALONE is the Human Fulfillment of the Law….

His Body is obedience to the Law FULFILLED; and

His Blood is the penalty of the Law FULFILLED.

WITHOUT Jesus Christ, a person is still under the Law.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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No,

we saw that God did not command sacrifices in the day He brought the people out Egypt.
in that day, He only told them to believe and obey Him.

then He tested them in Exodus 16.
He gave them manna and commanded them not to gather it on the 7th day, but to trust Him.
they proved they would not believe Him. or obey Him.

so He gave an unbelieving, disobedient people a Law.
within that Law He commanded sacrifices for sin, because it is a law for a sinful people.
As you wish.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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Who is HaShem? :unsure:

His name is only mentioned once in the Bible… in the list of David’s mighty men… HaShem has no throne.

the sons of Hashem the Gizonite, Jonathan the son of Shagee the Hararite,
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Chr.11.34&version=AMP
The Literal translation of HaShem is The Name. As I have said many many times, it isn't a name so much as a title. It used to keep from useing the name in the wrong way. After all He has 72 titles, (not including HaShem) so unless one knows all 72 titles, they most likly will use the name at times.
Now if we look at the Word we will find His name isn't God, yet that seems to not be an isue at all. Oh I know if we look at any English translation it uses God, LORD, and so on. His true name, the one he gave us is Yahovah. That is if I am getting it right. After all I am not Hebrew, I don't read Hebrew, and only speak it a little.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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The Law has NOT been removed, it is in full force which is why people will perish WITHOUT Jesus Christ as their Savior.

Jesus Christ ALONE is the Human Fulfillment of the Law….

His Body is obedience to the Law FULFILLED; and

His Blood is the penalty of the Law FULFILLED.

WITHOUT Jesus Christ, a person is still under the Law.
I can agree with that to some extent. As you see from my writings on here, or even in our Biblical theology studies. Much of which has turned what I once thought I knew, into what I now think I know. LOL I know, it is strange to have a person say they think they know, however with that I remind my self that not one person on this earth can say they hold a full understanding of the Word. It also keeps us from digging in so deep that we can't see the truth in what others may say. However as I have pointed out in post #345 on page 18 it is does no good to try and ride the fence. It removes any credibility one may think they hold, and leaves the idea in the minds of some the one doing so has no idea what they are doing.
Again I wish make it clear, I teach what I think I know. That in way makes it fool proof, nor 100% accurate. Though it does follow what the Word tells us.
I will say this, from what I have seen of your writing on here, it is clear that we do hold some things in common, yet there is some we simply don't.
As to being under the Law if I may ask you a question on that.
If you know the law is to drive 65 on the highway, and you do just that, are you under that law, and simply free of the condemnation of it?
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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I let off talking of the feast. I did say it was in line with the topic of sacrifice, and failed in showing that. Well I am going to tie it together now.
First off, the feast as I made clear are not Jewish, nor Christian. they are the feast of HaShem. You will see why we must understand that in this post.
Now if we look we find that the feast hold one sacrifice or another, some hold more than just one. As the feast are the topic of the commandment, and they do hold at lest one sacrifice, it can be said that HaShem commanded sacrifice's. Yet if we look at what He told us,

Jer 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
You will not find me trying to speak for Him, if said it, we best take heed to his Words and not that of men. Some for what ever reason wish to pit passage against passage. Speaking of things they may not understand. If one looks at the passage used to say HaShem commanded sacrifices,(Num.28:2) and reads it with an understanding of the Whole Torah, we soon find the sacrifices here are tied to the feast. As the feast are commanded, and HaShem tells us they are His, then all things tied to them are as well. So if one wishes to say He commanded ALL sacrifices under that one passage, have it. However to keep that passage in context with whole of scripture, one must seek why it tells the people to keep them in their season. There is only one set of commandments where we find them tied to seasons. That is the feast.
Once we get over thinking that we hold more understanding than another, and really look at what is said, we can learn a lot of things. Like what kind of person are we dealing with, how much do they really know, and most importantly, do they stand on their teachings, or do they waver in them?
Now for mat.5:17-18. I know this passage is off limits for some people, as they have clear. However as we found in our studies, it does seem to be the tipping point of doctrine.
As we know, I follow that the Law has not been removed, and have shown why I follow that understanding. I have done my best to show why it why it is wrong to offer any sacrifice at this time, and why a gentile would never be able to do so under the ORDINANCES of Torah. So let do a fast recap on that for you.
In the Torah we are told to offer them in only one place. That being the Temple.
Deu 12:13 Take heed to thyself that thou offer not thy burnt offerings in every place that thou seest:

One should make note that here they are not called HaShem's, rather are the peoples.
Deu 12:14 But in the place which the LORD shall choose in one of thy tribes, there thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, and there thou shalt do all that I command thee.
As there is no Temple, and HaShem's alter isn't even in place, doing so would be in violation of this passage.
So how did that effect Paul one may ask.

Act 18:21But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

It seems that Paul willing went to Jerusalem to keep at lest one feast. So to say he told us we don't need to is about 1/2 right. You see, this feast that Paul had to be there for, must have been one of the feast that call for all Hebrew men to be in Jerusalem for. There are 3 that call for this. Passover, Booths, and the day of Atonement. All 3 hold in them a required sacrifice. So did Paul take part in them? By his own words the answer must be yes. Will they become something that all nations must take part in, we know for sure that Booths will. Zec. 14: 16-19.
Now it has been brought up that HaShem has called the sacrifices His. I am going to use just a bit of common sense here, so don't get angry. If we offer a gift to our kids, one they didn't ask for, will they say it is theirs? You know they will. So why can HaShem not use the same understanding when speaking with His children?
Now let look at bit into the future.

1Pe 2:5Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
As we can see Peter makes it clear that we do give sacrifices even today. No not burnt offerings. However as I pointed out, when Yeshua reign's for 100 years, all nation will be called to keep the feast of booths. To do so does mean offering a sacrifice.
When we place mat.5:17-18 in context with the feast we find that they have not been removed at all. I know I am so stupid that I don't know anything at all. Yet for them wish to press that kind of thing, I really don't care. I have but one King to please, and trust me, you are not him. So long as He looks at me and thinks, "That kid may not have a full understanding, however he is working on it." Then I know my living sacrifice to Him, is pleasing to Him.
And that my friends is the lead up to the next post. If any one wishes to follow good on you.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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It seems you woould rather just call names than answer honest answers. It's all good I know it goes that way. Once you find that your reply doesn't hold water, the name calling, belittlement, and all manner of hostile comes out. You never proved anything, It's all good though, I know this was coming from not just your past history with me, others as well. Now feel free to get the last word in, I am not going to bother with you anymore. After all, once the name calling and faults acusasions start, I know you have no leg to stand on.
So it's not just me. ;) Name calling, belittlement, slander and hostility is what he knows best. I'm not surprised he was banned from Christian Chat. He is now mistreating folks on the Christianity Board with the same nonsense. Truly sad. I cannot reason with him at all but I can certainly pray for him.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Some for what ever reason wish to pit passage against passage
in showing that you have not correctly interpreted Jeremiah 7:22 i have attempted to prevent you, yourself from 'pitting passage against passage'

but you still want to say Jeremiah 7:22 contradicts every passage in the Torah where sacrifice is literally commanded by the LORD.

so the op is still unanswered, apparently.
how can you learn if you will not be taught?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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why it tells the people to keep them in their season.
Exodus 29 - God commands sacrifices for the consecration of priests. not seasonal.

Leviticus 5-6 - God commands sacrifices whenever anyone sins or becomes unclean, whether intentionally or unintentionally. not seasonal.

two witnesses are enough.
Jeremiah 7:22 does not say God "never" commanded sacrifices. that is a gross misinterpretation which sets scripture against scripture.
Jeremiah 7:22 says that in the day He brought them out of Egypt He did not require sacrifices from them.

so any point you try to make on the basis that sacrifices are not part of the Law is built on a false foundation.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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As for me judging, I can only work with I see. When a person tells me they never said the Law was removed, then turns around and says it was nailed to the cross, and so on, what can one think?
that's right.
not removed. in fact, firmly fixed in place.
nailed to the cross.

you want to find the Law today?

go to the cross of Christ, and take a good look.



:)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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All 3 hold in them a required sacrifice. So did Paul take part in them? By his own words the answer must be yes.
Previously discussed.
Paul did not make sacrifices, but paid for the vows of the other men he was coerced by the Jews into taking part with, as the prophet had told him, the Jews would bind him with his own belt.
Paul was arrested and bound by the Romans before the vows were complete - that is not the fulfilling of the prophecy because the prophecy is specific that the Jews would bind him.
The commanded sacrifices associated with these feasts are not performed by every Jewish man, but only the priests.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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blood sacrifices for the atonement of sin today are wicked because they deny the work of God Who offered Himself once and for all.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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So it's not just me. ;) Name calling, belittlement, slander and hostility is what he knows best. I'm not surprised he was banned from Christian Chat. He is now mistreating folks on the Christianity Board with the same nonsense. Truly sad. I cannot reason with him at all but I can certainly pray for him.
Banned? I didn't know that. Not going to say I am shocked. Although we will never know if he might have learned something that would change his life. As you said, prayer is something we should all do for all man kind, even the ones that treat us badly. Thank you for the reminder. I will also be adding the Chirstinaty Board to my prayers as well.
Oh if I may, what is that anyway?
 
E

evyaniy

Guest
blood sacrifices for the atonement of sin today are wicked because they deny the work of God Who offered Himself once and for all.
As foreshadowed by Moses, (who represents the law), striking the Rock a second time when he was told to talk to the Rock to bring forth It's water. The Rock was only to be struck once. It is the Son's obedience to the law in offering His life to save us that nailed Him to the cross. The law was His path to life and being raised from the dead. He is the only One Who could fully obey the greatest commandments to love YHVH with all His heart and soul and mind and strength and to love His neighbor as Himself because He had to give His life as a Sacrifice to be obedient to those commands. None of us are capable of being obedient to those two commands. Look at the world around us as evidence. He did it to save His enemies in obedience to His Father.

So anyone claiming to be in any way obedient to the law has not taken up their cross and carried it to the place of their execution to save their enemies who cannot save themselves.
 
E

evyaniy

Guest
E

evyaniy

Guest
Previously discussed.
Paul did not make sacrifices, but paid for the vows of the other men he was coerced by the Jews into taking part with, as the prophet had told him, the Jews would bind him with his own belt.
Paul was arrested and bound by the Romans before the vows were complete - that is not the fulfilling of the prophecy because the prophecy is specific that the Jews would bind him.
The commanded sacrifices associated with these feasts are not performed by every Jewish man, but only the priests.
Can you please explain Paul's vow further. Are you saying His vow was not completed or successful?

Messiah and James told us to take no oaths. Are there any oaths in Scripture that you know of the worked out for good? Of course the Son's oath in Psalm 119:106 to keep the Father's judgments was kept and was successful. Are there any other oaths that you know of that ended well. Of course Herod kept his oath which led to John the Baptist being beheaded. Oaths do not work for us which is why we are told not to take them.