How can one learn?

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evyaniy

Guest
#481
#481
Love is the fulfillment of the law. Messiah fulfilled the law when He offered His life to save us on the cross and died in our place.

Romans 13

8 Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love doesn’t harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#482
Jul 31, 2013
37,840
13,558
113
#482
posthuman said:
blood sacrifices for the atonement of sin today are wicked because they deny the work of God Who offered Himself once and for all.
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@Rainrider

i understand that you wish to show that blood sacrifices for atonement of sin were never commanded by God in the law of the Sinai covenant, and that is why you purposefully misinterpret Jeremiah 7, because you consider yourself under that law..

- is that because you realize blood sacrifices for atonement today are spitting in the face of the Messiah, God Himself in the flesh, Who offeref Himself once and for all? and you recognize your doctrine is contradictory to the gospel, so you are trying to somehow rescue it?

or. do you flatly disagree that killing a goat. or bull. to atone for sin is making Christ of no effect?

do you agree with the statement I made, or not? is making a sacrifice of an animal to atone for sin wicked now that Christ has appeared?


pplease. answer plainly.
neither of us can learn if we avoid the deep questions altogether.
this is what my whole conversation has been about: Christ. what He has done. Who He is.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#483
Jul 31, 2013
37,840
13,558
113
#483
posthuman said:
@Rainrider

i understand that you wish to show that blood sacrifices for atonement of sin were never commanded by God in the law of the Sinai covenant, and that is why you purposefully misinterpret Jeremiah 7, because you consider yourself under that law..

- is that because you realize blood sacrifices for atonement today are spitting in the face of the Messiah, God Himself in the flesh, Who offeref Himself once and for all? and you recognize your doctrine is contradictory to the gospel, so you are trying to somehow rescue it?

or. do you flatly disagree that killing a goat. or bull. to atone for sin is making Christ of no effect?

do you agree with the statement I made, or not? is making a sacrifice of an animal to atone for sin wicked now that Christ has appeared?


pplease. answer plainly.
neither of us can learn if we avoid the deep questions altogether.
this is what my whole conversation has been about: Christ. what He has done. Who He is.
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i.e. despite your insistence that we pretend the Bible isn't infinitely interconnected ((you get mad when i connect one part of the scripture to comment on another part; you accuse me of changing subjects because you apparently don't see how the scripture is one whole scripture even though you keep repeating the words - "we must look at scripture as a whole" - um... that means all. of scripture not one pet verse of yours in Matthew like Galatians doesn't matter... )),


.. do we need to take a much deeper look at what Hebrews says?
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#484
Jul 31, 2013
37,840
13,558
113
#484
posthuman said:
like Galatians doesn't matter...
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And Romans and Corinthians and Exodus and Zechariah and Isaiah and Genesis and Colossians and Ephesians and Jonah and John and Hosea and Joel... and good grief, all of it!

The Spirit of prophecy isn't the testimony of law, but of Christ!

Who is He?
what did He do?
 
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evyaniy

Guest
#485
#485
sure has been a spate of law observance advocates parading through here recently. the current ones don't talk amongst themselves like the previous ones did as was pointed out. that is interesting.

you'd think they'd at least pat each other on the back a little.
 
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evyaniy

Guest
#486
#486
could it be they do not agree with each other? weird they would not express their concurring views. after all. who doesn't like a little agreement at times?
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#487
Jul 31, 2013
37,840
13,558
113
#487
evyaniy said:
sure has been a spate of law observance advocates parading through here recently. the current ones don't talk amongst themselves like the previous ones did as was pointed out. that is interesting.

you'd think they'd at least pat each other on the back a little.
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it amazes me how such a clear doctrine in scripture can be argued with - that through Christ's death and resurrection we, having put our faith in Him, are not under the Law of the Sinai covenant, and His perfect righteousness with respect to the keeping of the is ascribed to us because of His substitionary atonement and continual intercession, through faith.

it is so simple: "the just shall live by faith"


but it is connected to Who one says the Messiah is.
if one believes He was only a mere man filled with the Spirit, specially enabled by God to keep from sinning all His life, the of course one ends up with dine kind of doctrine of salvation that requires us to "earn" eternal life in the same way, saying, The Holy Ghost will enable you to keep the law, and if and only if you perfectly obey Him, you too can be as Christ.

however if one accepts that the Messiah is not just man, but God Himself - then His appearance, His death and His resurrection are so powerful that there is no doubt He works salvation for us, and it is only something we can receive, not something we can "do"
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#488
Jul 31, 2013
37,840
13,558
113
#488
evyaniy said:
sure has been a spate of law observance advocates parading through here recently. the current ones don't talk amongst themselves like the previous ones did as was pointed out. that is interesting.

you'd think they'd at least pat each other on the back a little.
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it's hard to talk to them sometimes because it's not that we are against the law or that we are excusing sin -- but the truth that we aren't under the Law has to be firmly stated and established, it's the gospel, it is how we are brought near to God

a pity sometimes that we end up endlessly making that argument instead of being able to just talk about how the whole giving of the Law and all the things in it are glorifying The Son and speaking about His great work in redeeming us from sin
 
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evyaniy

Guest
#489
#489
posthuman said:
it's hard to talk to them sometimes because it's not that we are against the law or that we are excusing sin -- but the truth that we aren't under the Law has to be firmly stated and established, it's the gospel, it is how we are brought near to God

a pity sometimes that we end up endlessly making that argument instead of being able to just talk about how the whole giving of the Law and all the things in it are glorifying The Son and speaking about His great work in redeeming us from sin
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sometimes the best you can do is walk away. since they seem to have an agenda and relentlessly pursue it and are unwilling to consider anything else, even when given Scripture that directly counters their view and interpretations, it often appears the agenda is more important than arriving at truth. Like the Scripture says, you try to correct a couple times and then have nothing more to do with it. Once people stop engaging they eventually tire of trying. sometimes it even seems like they make preposterous assertions only to drive more engagement. Still, it can be an opportunity to share with other readers for what that may be worth.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#490
Jul 3, 2015
60,158
29,462
113
#490
evyaniy said:
Love is the fulfillment of the law. Messiah fulfilled the law when He offered His life to save us on the cross and died in our place.

Romans 13

8 Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love doesn’t harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.
Click to expand...

Romans 13:10
:)
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#491
Mar 1, 2022
19,210
6,608
113
62
#491
posthuman said:
it's hard to talk to them sometimes because it's not that we are against the law or that we are excusing sin -- but the truth that we aren't under the Law has to be firmly stated and established, it's the gospel, it is how we are brought near to God

a pity sometimes that we end up endlessly making that argument instead of being able to just talk about how the whole giving of the Law and all the things in it are glorifying The Son and speaking about His great work in redeeming us from sin
Click to expand...
Remember, don't hold your breath while waiting for the answer and hydrate beforehand.
 
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evyaniy

Guest
#493
#493
posthuman said:
it's hard to talk to them sometimes because it's not that we are against the law or that we are excusing sin -- but the truth that we aren't under the Law has to be firmly stated and established, it's the gospel, it is how we are brought near to God

a pity sometimes that we end up endlessly making that argument instead of being able to just talk about how the whole giving of the Law and all the things in it are glorifying The Son and speaking about His great work in redeeming us from sin
Click to expand...
Yes, finding the Son in the Law is way worthwhile. There was the Pentateuch books written by C.H Mackintosh that show the Son all through the first 5 books. Have not read it in a long time but recall his amazing ability to find the Son in everything and present it beautifully. Yes spending time on that would be an excellent endeavor instead of saying people are back under the law which is not even possible any more.
 
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evyaniy

Guest
#494
#494
evyaniy said:
Thank you most kindly again. As the verse says. Love IS the fulfillment of the Law. That is an immensely powerful statement that explains so much.
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question? can you please explain the Law in just one word.

uhhhh

Love
 
JimmyTheLock

JimmyTheLock

Banned
#495
Sep 28, 2023
948
177
43
#495
Rainrider said:
How can one learn?
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Stand on God's promises in His Word and expect Him to teach you personally...

If some preachers says "thus saith the Lord" your attitude should be "OK, we'll see about that" as you go study God's Word for yourself to see if what is being taught is true!

Jesus said the Holy Ghost would lead us in to ALL Truth (John 16:13),
and Jesus said God's Word IS Truth (John 17:17)


1 Corinthians 2:9-16
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
 
JimmyTheLock

JimmyTheLock

Banned
#496
Sep 28, 2023
948
177
43
#496
evyaniy said:
question? can you please explain the Law in just one word.

uhhhh

Love
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Yeah and the gay peoples all say love is love and use this to justify their sin claiming the Lord accepts them.

There's more to it than just saying "love"

God is Love and He has a lot to say in His Word... somethings are nit that nice but they are for our good because Loves seeks to correct His people so they don't fall way.

Hebrews 12:6-11
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
 
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evyaniy

Guest
#497
#497
JimmyTheLock said:
Yeah and the gay peoples all say love is love and use this to justify their sin claiming the Lord accepts them.

There's more to it than just saying "love"

God is Love and He has a lot to say in His Word... somethings are nit that nice but they are for our good because Loves seeks to correct His people so they don't fall way.

Hebrews 12:6-11
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
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How about you ignore my posts instead of making contentious replies. That would be kind. Thanks

And Love is a good one word summation of the Law. Sure much more could be said and has been but the ultimate answer was/is Love. In fact Love is what's lacking in what is going on in the world and that is why things have become so violent and evil. The love of many has waxed cold because of all the wickedness in the world at this time. If people were living in love for one another there would be no need for law.
 
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evyaniy

Guest
#498
#498
another recent joiner. figures.
 
Rainrider

Rainrider

Senior Member
#500
Jun 17, 2017
1,535
87
48
#500
Cameron143 said:
Keeping the law as best as you can is not keeping the law. Eventually you will fall into the trap of the Pharisees and dumb the law down to a set of prescribed behavior. In doing so, the law will be void of its spiritual character for you and become a ritualistic practice. Read Isaiah 1.
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I think I can keep a sound Biblical perspective. As I understand it, the religious became greedy, and power went to their heads. Now keep in mind I heard that from a teacher of Israeli history, so how much truth there is in it I don't know. However it does seem to fit with what we learn from Yeshua. As one with no authority, and only the wish to follow HaShem in the way He told us to live. I place my trusting faithfulness in Him. He will not lead to a place I shouldn't go.
 
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