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There are 2 Advents. Jesus told us HIMSELF, while reading in Isaiah in the temple what His return would be like. He did not read that 2nd 1/2 of the verse BECAUSE it was not "the day of vengeance"
The angels at the tomb told us He would return in like manner that He ascended.
Our gathering to Him is when? First the warning of the 1 letter being misinterpreted, DONT DO THAT
2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition
We are told not to "fly away" in Ezekiel. God is against those who teach you that also.
"Overcome" 7 times AT the beginning of the book of Revelation, the book REVEALING the END TIMES.
We are told the "elect" from one of the churches will be given up to death. SO THEY ARE HERE. NO marriage until THE WHOLE BRIDE is present. Not two weddings. Not 2 gatherings. Not all will be changed twice. Not the dead will rise first twice.
The LORDS DAY. Singular His return. Singular. The coming of the Lord singular.
The angels at the tomb told us He would return in like manner that He ascended.
Our gathering to Him is when? First the warning of the 1 letter being misinterpreted, DONT DO THAT
2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition
We are told not to "fly away" in Ezekiel. God is against those who teach you that also.
"Overcome" 7 times AT the beginning of the book of Revelation, the book REVEALING the END TIMES.
We are told the "elect" from one of the churches will be given up to death. SO THEY ARE HERE. NO marriage until THE WHOLE BRIDE is present. Not two weddings. Not 2 gatherings. Not all will be changed twice. Not the dead will rise first twice.
The LORDS DAY. Singular His return. Singular. The coming of the Lord singular.
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I'm pre-trib, but I believe the context of Matt24:42 (OP verse) is in reference to His Second Coming to the earth (FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom)… and that the "you" of the Olivet Discourse is a "proleptic 'you'" (basically meaning, all those in the future OF THE SAME CATEGORY [i.e. those to whom the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom was promised])… so that, once the trib [7-yrs] STARTS, those who come to faith (DURING the trib), who will not have known "the day or the hour" (vv.42, 36, etc ["perfect tense"]), can now pay heed to His word (which, in the FURTHER INFORMATION He supplied [FOLLOWING His resurrection/ascension] in the LATER 95ad "Revelation," provides quite a number of "time-stamps" and "time-related clues" especially when viewed in light of other OT passages, etc) they can come to "know" such a thing...
and that is what I believe the REST of the context of our passages under discussion is communicating, especially by grasping the opposite of what vv.48-50 are saying about the "evil servant"... of whom the passages says, "the lord of THAT servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of" (IOW, he WASN'T paying heed to God's Word and those bringing it)… I believe the "WISE" servant here parallels Daniel 12:1-4,10 ("the WISE SHALL UNDERSTAND"; whereas the "evil servant" parallels the other part of v.10, "but none of the wicked shall understand" [context: 2nd half of trib, in chpt 12 there])… Verse 4b says, "many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased," which verse I believe has direct reference to what I'm pointing out... that DURING the trib, Israel (those of them who will come to faith WITHIN the trib [FOLLOWING our Rapture]) will come to "UNDERSTAND" many prophetic things, including the specific TIMING issues that have been further revealed in "[The] Revelation"...
and recall, this will be during a time of great deception, and much persecution [note: I believe all of the Olivet Discourse refers to that which FOLLOWS our Rapture [except for a few verses in Lk21 about the events of 70ad (vv.12-24a, with 24b following on from there); so that Matt24:4-14 (etc) is referring to the persecution of the believing remnant of Israel (DURING those 7 yrs)--By contrast, the persecution of "the Church which is His body" has been going on since the first century (up till our Rapture/Departure [so, some 2000 yrs), and is not awaiting the "future 7-yr period" in order to experience it])
and that is what I believe the REST of the context of our passages under discussion is communicating, especially by grasping the opposite of what vv.48-50 are saying about the "evil servant"... of whom the passages says, "the lord of THAT servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of" (IOW, he WASN'T paying heed to God's Word and those bringing it)… I believe the "WISE" servant here parallels Daniel 12:1-4,10 ("the WISE SHALL UNDERSTAND"; whereas the "evil servant" parallels the other part of v.10, "but none of the wicked shall understand" [context: 2nd half of trib, in chpt 12 there])… Verse 4b says, "many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased," which verse I believe has direct reference to what I'm pointing out... that DURING the trib, Israel (those of them who will come to faith WITHIN the trib [FOLLOWING our Rapture]) will come to "UNDERSTAND" many prophetic things, including the specific TIMING issues that have been further revealed in "[The] Revelation"...
and recall, this will be during a time of great deception, and much persecution [note: I believe all of the Olivet Discourse refers to that which FOLLOWS our Rapture [except for a few verses in Lk21 about the events of 70ad (vv.12-24a, with 24b following on from there); so that Matt24:4-14 (etc) is referring to the persecution of the believing remnant of Israel (DURING those 7 yrs)--By contrast, the persecution of "the Church which is His body" has been going on since the first century (up till our Rapture/Departure [so, some 2000 yrs), and is not awaiting the "future 7-yr period" in order to experience it])
I understand your contribution to the discussion, alsoI see everything you have reminded me of in the Word also. It is wonderful how you, the prophets, and God, Himself inform without recriminations such as all are unlearned. You do not concern yourself with suich as you seem to teach and have been gifted. At leas on this partic ular subject. It is certian when you post you post what you have been given to share. God bless you.
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Your post is typical of those who are thoroughly confused about the difference between the Rapture and the Second Coming.
This is a reference to the Second Coming.
This is a reference to the Rapture. The day of Christ is NOT the day of the LORD.
This is absurd. You are taking Scripture totally out of context.
Revelation 19 clearly shows that the Marriage of the Lamb is just BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ. Therefore all the saints must be present in Heaven BEFORE the Second Coming.
This is a reference to the Second Coming.
This is a reference to the Rapture. The day of Christ is NOT the day of the LORD.
This is absurd. You are taking Scripture totally out of context.
Revelation 19 clearly shows that the Marriage of the Lamb is just BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ. Therefore all the saints must be present in Heaven BEFORE the Second Coming.
I think you would have got that impression by my response to the OP, and following responses, in not buying into any of that rapture/resurrection/tribulation baloney. But, it's not that I don't understand. I understand all too well the "entitled/conceited mind sets", and the ceasing in growing/maturing Spiritually that buying into the whole pre/mid/post/wrath, mid wrath, post trib, post wrath-mid trib, pre wrath-post tribulation/s, and the ungodliness that comes from not shunning these vainful profanities. As Paul warned Timothy about.
Consider all the bickering and infighting, and thread upon thread, post upon post, as to "Who is the BETTER Watchman?" Is THIS not "vanity?" Is this not a "trap" where one ends up just "spinning your wheels" and not GAINING any forward progress?
Albeit, is good to watch! Least, as far as this believer is concerned? Tribulation started, right around here:
Genesis 3
13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
And, tis been a sorrowful proofing, and being proofed? Ever since!
Least as far as this current earth/heaven age is concerned.
If ALL one takes from this whole "rapture/pre/mid/post/wrath/pre/mid/post wrath/tribulation?"
Is the word "WATCH!" "Be Ready!"
It REALLY doesn't MATTER in the knowing of when what happens! Does it?
Watch! And continue "being perfected!"
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I disagree that that is what Ezekiel 13 is conveying, though it is oft-repeated to be saying such a thing... the word for "pillows" can be translated "charms" (that the false prophet women sewed to their arms), and instead, the passage conveys this (which I don't even think needs to be in reference to "rapture" at all, in fact, most likely does not):
"20 Therefore, this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘See, I am against the magic charms with which you ensnare souls like birds, and I will tear them from your arms. I will free the souls you have ensnared. 21 I will also tear off your veils and deliver My people from your hands, so that they will no longer be prey in your hands. Then you will know that I am the LORD.…" - Ezekiel 13:20-21 [see v.23 also, "I will deliver MY PEOPLE out of your hand"].
This is nothing about false teachers' teaching of "the rapture".
I also disagree with your interpretation of 2Th2... I believe that "the day" verse 3 refers to is from verse 2 (the immediately preceding verse, not reaching clear back PAST that verse to grab verse 1 to apply it there), so it is referring to the "day" they wrongly believed "IS PRESENT" v.2, "the Day of the Lord" (which is an EARTHLY time period of much duration, and involving judgments and other negatives)... they believed they were IN IT and EXPERIENCING IT, and Paul is telling them WHY this is NOT SO. [ONE THING must take place "FIRST" before it (the DOTL earthly time period) can "be present" to unfold upon the earth, with its "man of sin" and ALL he will DO over the course of the 7 yrs...]
"20 Therefore, this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘See, I am against the magic charms with which you ensnare souls like birds, and I will tear them from your arms. I will free the souls you have ensnared. 21 I will also tear off your veils and deliver My people from your hands, so that they will no longer be prey in your hands. Then you will know that I am the LORD.…" - Ezekiel 13:20-21 [see v.23 also, "I will deliver MY PEOPLE out of your hand"].
This is nothing about false teachers' teaching of "the rapture".
I also disagree with your interpretation of 2Th2... I believe that "the day" verse 3 refers to is from verse 2 (the immediately preceding verse, not reaching clear back PAST that verse to grab verse 1 to apply it there), so it is referring to the "day" they wrongly believed "IS PRESENT" v.2, "the Day of the Lord" (which is an EARTHLY time period of much duration, and involving judgments and other negatives)... they believed they were IN IT and EXPERIENCING IT, and Paul is telling them WHY this is NOT SO. [ONE THING must take place "FIRST" before it (the DOTL earthly time period) can "be present" to unfold upon the earth, with its "man of sin" and ALL he will DO over the course of the 7 yrs...]
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https://biblehub.com/interlinear/ezekiel/13-20.htm - Ezekiel 13:20 ["souls [/lives/persons]" 3x in verse]
EDIT (to add to my post):
Ezekiel 13:20,21,23 - [reflecting the 3x "souls [/lives/persons]" is found in v.20]
English Standard Version -
“Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I am against your magic bands with which you hunt the souls like birds, and I will tear them from your arms, and I will let the souls whom you hunt go free, the souls like birds. Your veils also I will tear off and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand as prey, and you shall know that I am the LORD. [...] therefore you shall no more see false visions nor practice divination. I will deliver my people out of your hand. And you shall know that I am the LORD."
Young's Literal Translation -
"Therefore, thus said the Lord Jehovah: Lo, I am against your pillows, With which ye are hunting there the souls of the flourishing, And I have rent them from off your arms, And have sent away the souls that ye are hunting, The souls of the flourishing. And I have torn your kerchiefs, And delivered My people out of your hand, And they are no more in your hand for a prey, And ye have known that I am Jehovah. [...] Therefore, vanity ye do not see, And divination ye do not divine again, And I have delivered My people out of your hand, And ye have known that I am Jehovah!'"
Ezekiel 13:20,21,23 - [reflecting the 3x "souls [/lives/persons]" is found in v.20]
English Standard Version -
“Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I am against your magic bands with which you hunt the souls like birds, and I will tear them from your arms, and I will let the souls whom you hunt go free, the souls like birds. Your veils also I will tear off and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand as prey, and you shall know that I am the LORD. [...] therefore you shall no more see false visions nor practice divination. I will deliver my people out of your hand. And you shall know that I am the LORD."
Young's Literal Translation -
"Therefore, thus said the Lord Jehovah: Lo, I am against your pillows, With which ye are hunting there the souls of the flourishing, And I have rent them from off your arms, And have sent away the souls that ye are hunting, The souls of the flourishing. And I have torn your kerchiefs, And delivered My people out of your hand, And they are no more in your hand for a prey, And ye have known that I am Jehovah. [...] Therefore, vanity ye do not see, And divination ye do not divine again, And I have delivered My people out of your hand, And ye have known that I am Jehovah!'"
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We have to be ready at all times and keep our relationship with God. Why should we worry or be concerned about the when or how to get around anything as we are suppose to put our trust in God and let Him take care of us. We should be about our Father's business and let Him worry about when Jesus returns to rescue us.
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What has happened? Babylon has fallen, AND THEN
Revelation 19:1 And AFTER these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
Revelation 19:2 For true and righteous ARE HIS JUDGMENTS, FOR HE HATH JUDGED the great whore, which DID corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
Revelation 19:3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
Revelation 19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
Revelation 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, ALL YE HIS SERVANTS and ye that fear him, both small and great.
Revelation 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE SAINTS
Revelation 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
NOW WHAT time is it here? The END of Satans Trib, the beginning of the Lords Day BECAUSE THE WHITE HORSE OF THE TRUE CHRIST IS MOVING.
THE EVENTS TELL US "WHERE" WE ARE IN THE "ORDER" of events , NOT THE CHAPTER NUMBERS OR VERSES.
We know Satan is bound, for the Lords Day,
We know we "GATHER TO BE WITH THE LORD AFTER SATAN IS REVEALED" THESE THINGS CAN NOT BE DISPUTED. WE KNOW IT IS AT THE 7TH TRUMP - THE LAST, THE FURTHEREST ONE OUT.
Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. THIS IS THE LORDS DAY, A DAY OF VENGENCE. THE END OF SATANS TRIBULATION AND THE BANDING AND PUT INTO THE PIT FOR THE 1000YRS. He had come in the clouds, the two witnesses had risen, the dead had been resurrected, ALL WHO were alive and remained had been changed to be forever with the Lord, THIS IS THE SECOND COMING .
Revelation 19:1 And AFTER these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
Revelation 19:2 For true and righteous ARE HIS JUDGMENTS, FOR HE HATH JUDGED the great whore, which DID corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
Revelation 19:3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
Revelation 19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
Revelation 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, ALL YE HIS SERVANTS and ye that fear him, both small and great.
Revelation 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE SAINTS
Revelation 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
NOW WHAT time is it here? The END of Satans Trib, the beginning of the Lords Day BECAUSE THE WHITE HORSE OF THE TRUE CHRIST IS MOVING.
THE EVENTS TELL US "WHERE" WE ARE IN THE "ORDER" of events , NOT THE CHAPTER NUMBERS OR VERSES.
We know Satan is bound, for the Lords Day,
We know we "GATHER TO BE WITH THE LORD AFTER SATAN IS REVEALED" THESE THINGS CAN NOT BE DISPUTED. WE KNOW IT IS AT THE 7TH TRUMP - THE LAST, THE FURTHEREST ONE OUT.
Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. THIS IS THE LORDS DAY, A DAY OF VENGENCE. THE END OF SATANS TRIBULATION AND THE BANDING AND PUT INTO THE PIT FOR THE 1000YRS. He had come in the clouds, the two witnesses had risen, the dead had been resurrected, ALL WHO were alive and remained had been changed to be forever with the Lord, THIS IS THE SECOND COMING .
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1 Thessalonians 5 is stating who we ARE (in the wider CONTEXT).
1 Thessalonians 5:6-10 (notice the SAME Greek words in both v.6 and v.10, and what that then means, for [to/for/about] us ['the Church which is His body'] per context!) -
6 So then we should not sleep [G2518 - katheudōmen] as the others, but we should watch [G1127 - grēgorōmen] and we should be sober. 7 For those sleeping, sleep by night; and those becoming drunk, get drunk by night. 8 But we being of the day should be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and the helmet, the hope of salvation [<--this phrase refers to our Rapture (that is, knowledge/understanding [helmet] of our Rapture)], 9 because God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation [an eschatological 'salvation'] through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 the One having died for us, so that whether we might watch [G1127 - grēgorōmen] OR we might sleep [G2518 - katheudōmen], we may live together with [G4862 - syn (denoting 'UNION-with'/'IDENTIFICATION-with')] Him.
[this is distinct from what the Olivet Discourse is saying]
1 Thessalonians 5:6-10 (notice the SAME Greek words in both v.6 and v.10, and what that then means, for [to/for/about] us ['the Church which is His body'] per context!) -
6 So then we should not sleep [G2518 - katheudōmen] as the others, but we should watch [G1127 - grēgorōmen] and we should be sober. 7 For those sleeping, sleep by night; and those becoming drunk, get drunk by night. 8 But we being of the day should be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and the helmet, the hope of salvation [<--this phrase refers to our Rapture (that is, knowledge/understanding [helmet] of our Rapture)], 9 because God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation [an eschatological 'salvation'] through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 the One having died for us, so that whether we might watch [G1127 - grēgorōmen] OR we might sleep [G2518 - katheudōmen], we may live together with [G4862 - syn (denoting 'UNION-with'/'IDENTIFICATION-with')] Him.
[this is distinct from what the Olivet Discourse is saying]
[color-coded, to draw attention to SAME words]
6 So then we should not sleep [G2518 - katheudōmen] as the others, but we should watch [G1127 - grēgorōmen] and we should be sober. 7 For those sleeping, sleep by night; and those becoming drunk, get drunk by night. 8 But we being of the day should be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and the helmet, the hope of salvation [<--this phrase refers to our Rapture (that is, knowledge/understanding [helmet] of our Rapture)], 9 because God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation [an eschatological 'salvation'] through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 the One having died for us, so that whether we might watch [G1127 - grēgorōmen] OR we might sleep [G2518 - katheudōmen], we may live together with [G4862 - syn (denoting 'UNION-with'/'IDENTIFICATION-with')] Him.
[this is distinct from what the Olivet Discourse is saying]
6 So then we should not sleep [G2518 - katheudōmen] as the others, but we should watch [G1127 - grēgorōmen] and we should be sober. 7 For those sleeping, sleep by night; and those becoming drunk, get drunk by night. 8 But we being of the day should be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and the helmet, the hope of salvation [<--this phrase refers to our Rapture (that is, knowledge/understanding [helmet] of our Rapture)], 9 because God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation [an eschatological 'salvation'] through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 the One having died for us, so that whether we might watch [G1127 - grēgorōmen] OR we might sleep [G2518 - katheudōmen], we may live together with [G4862 - syn (denoting 'UNION-with'/'IDENTIFICATION-with')] Him.
[this is distinct from what the Olivet Discourse is saying]
[
Ezekiel 13:1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Ezekiel 13:2 Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the LORD
They take the word and make it say what they want it to say.
Ezekiel 13:3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!
Ezekiel 13:4 O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.
Who is Israel? Dust of the earth, stars of the sky, Ephraim and Manasseh, a land divided by rivers, no walls, milk and honey ect.
Ezekiel 13:5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.
Ezekiel 13:6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.
Ezekiel 13:7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken?
Ezekiel 13:8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.
Ezekiel 13:9 And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.
Ezekiel 13:10 Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:
Ezekiel 13:11 Say unto them which daub it with untempered morter, that it shall fall: there shall be an overflowing shower; and ye, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall rend it.
Ezekiel 13:12 Lo, when the wall is fallen, shall it not be said unto you, Where is the daubing wherewith ye have daubed it?
Ezekiel 13:13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even rend it with a stormy wind in my fury; and there shall be an overflowing shower in mine anger, and great hailstones in my fury to consume it.
Ezekiel 13:14 So will I break down the wall that ye have daubed with untempered morter, and bring it down to the ground, so that the foundation thereof shall be discovered, and it shall fall, and ye shall be consumed in the midst thereof: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Ezekiel 13:15 Thus will I accomplish my wrath upon the wall, and upon them that have daubed it with untempered morter, and will say unto you, The wall is no more, neither they that daubed it;
Ezekiel 13:16 To wit, the prophets of Israel which prophesy concerning Jerusalem, and which see visions of peace for her, and there is no peace, saith the Lord GOD. No real peace
Ezekiel 13:17 Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, which prophesy out of their own heart; and prophesy thou against them,
Is there another doctrine out there that "people are going to fly up into the air to be with the Lord" leaving the rest of the people on earth to suffer tribulation?" (there is just so much wrong from beginning to end, of that sentence)
Please if I have missed it, let me know where it is. So far no one has before and that is why I go with this as being what God is referring to. I am more than open to the knowledge and wisdom you have received from the Lord as if I am teaching falsely I would need to know. I do need scripture as it is the only way in which Gods Word is settled.
Ezekiel 13:18 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?
Ezekiel 13:19 And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?
Ezekiel 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
Ezekiel 13:21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Ezekiel 13:22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
Ezekiel 13:23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
QUOTE="Nehemiah6, post: 3991954, member: 258921"]This is absurd. You are taking Scripture totally out of context.[/QUOTE]
Ezekiel 13:1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Ezekiel 13:2 Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the LORD
They take the word and make it say what they want it to say.
Ezekiel 13:3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!
Ezekiel 13:4 O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.
Who is Israel? Dust of the earth, stars of the sky, Ephraim and Manasseh, a land divided by rivers, no walls, milk and honey ect.
Ezekiel 13:5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.
Ezekiel 13:6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.
Ezekiel 13:7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken?
Ezekiel 13:8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.
Ezekiel 13:9 And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.
Ezekiel 13:10 Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:
Ezekiel 13:11 Say unto them which daub it with untempered morter, that it shall fall: there shall be an overflowing shower; and ye, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall rend it.
Ezekiel 13:12 Lo, when the wall is fallen, shall it not be said unto you, Where is the daubing wherewith ye have daubed it?
Ezekiel 13:13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even rend it with a stormy wind in my fury; and there shall be an overflowing shower in mine anger, and great hailstones in my fury to consume it.
Ezekiel 13:14 So will I break down the wall that ye have daubed with untempered morter, and bring it down to the ground, so that the foundation thereof shall be discovered, and it shall fall, and ye shall be consumed in the midst thereof: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Ezekiel 13:15 Thus will I accomplish my wrath upon the wall, and upon them that have daubed it with untempered morter, and will say unto you, The wall is no more, neither they that daubed it;
Ezekiel 13:16 To wit, the prophets of Israel which prophesy concerning Jerusalem, and which see visions of peace for her, and there is no peace, saith the Lord GOD. No real peace
Ezekiel 13:17 Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, which prophesy out of their own heart; and prophesy thou against them,
Is there another doctrine out there that "people are going to fly up into the air to be with the Lord" leaving the rest of the people on earth to suffer tribulation?" (there is just so much wrong from beginning to end, of that sentence)
Please if I have missed it, let me know where it is. So far no one has before and that is why I go with this as being what God is referring to. I am more than open to the knowledge and wisdom you have received from the Lord as if I am teaching falsely I would need to know. I do need scripture as it is the only way in which Gods Word is settled.
Ezekiel 13:18 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?
Ezekiel 13:19 And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?
Ezekiel 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
Ezekiel 13:21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Ezekiel 13:22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
Ezekiel 13:23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
QUOTE="Nehemiah6, post: 3991954, member: 258921"]This is absurd. You are taking Scripture totally out of context.[/QUOTE]
NOTE: THIS ^ "sleep [G2518]" ^ is not the "sleep - G2837 - koimaó/koimōmenōn/koimēthentas" of the previous chpt, in 4:13,14,15,[16] (regarding "the dead in Christ"/those having fallen asleep in Jesus/having DIED), but is referring to a completely distinct thing (1Th5:6 and v.10 having the "G2518 sleep" word instead, and correlating [vv.6 & 10]). So, distinct... but context is all about "the Church which is His body" (both chpts)
Sounds to me, TDW, like you are more inclined in the "Preserving" of the Saints, then the "Perservering", of the Saints.
IOW? Content with relegating one's Spititual "perfecting" to some later period of eternity. Such as after one's flesh becomes fertilizer.
As far as not usually replying to posts from you? To be truthfully honest? And, I'm not sure you are purposely doing it, or can't help yourself, as you seem to like what it is you are saying.
But? I can't make heads or tails of what your are trying to say.
If you could "break it down" into more simpler terms, with, your take of what this means or, that means?
I believe would make for a more fruitful discussion.
But, that's just me!
IOW? Content with relegating one's Spititual "perfecting" to some later period of eternity. Such as after one's flesh becomes fertilizer.
As far as not usually replying to posts from you? To be truthfully honest? And, I'm not sure you are purposely doing it, or can't help yourself, as you seem to like what it is you are saying.
But? I can't make heads or tails of what your are trying to say.
If you could "break it down" into more simpler terms, with, your take of what this means or, that means?
I believe would make for a more fruitful discussion.
But, that's just me!
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