How long is the tribulation?

[PlainWord]

So Matthew 24:15,

When you see see the abomination of desolation spoke by Daniel... is when Jesus said the great tribulation would begin, Matthew 24:21 .


And in Revelation the only ones who receive the wrath of God are the ones who received the mark of the beast or his name or worshipped his image, Rev. 13:16, Rev.14:9 ,Rev. 20:4 ect.

So in ad66-70 the Jews who were involved in the revolt against Rome had the mark worshipped the Image had his name ect. or not?

If they had the mark and Gods wrath was poured out on them and they rebelled against Rome both then the mark they had was not Rome's.

At the same time if Rome was the beast spoken of and the Christians were honouring Rome’s authority and using their money they would be receiving the mark and not having the wrath poured out on them as the scriptures state.

So is the A.O.D. in Matthew 24:21 that Jesus is referring to the same as is in Revelation 13:15-18 ? This tribulation is it an tribulation poured out on Israel(Jacobs trouble),or on Christians,Matthew 24:9/"my names sake meaning on those who believe and profess Jesus as Christ?

The Abomination of Desolation was of circa 66-70 AD. The Temple was so desecrated long before it was destroyed. Sacrifices ended back then and there have been no sacrifices since. There is no direct prophesy of a new temple being built. In fact the location of the old temple is basically gone. As a point of interest, the Wailing Wall wasn't even part of the old temple wall, it was part of the wall protecting the Roman fort Antonia about 600 feet to the north.

As for the "mark" it had nothing to do with Rome in the end times scenario. This is the most misunderstood thing. The mark isn't the only thing needed to buy or sell. One could also have the number, or name of the beast. This alone totally destroys any idea that the mark is some type of computer chip.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

 

[iamsoandso]

Please see my post #211 which fully explains the Olivet and end times scenario. It is 100% accurate. The Great Tribulation of Mat 24:21 ended in 70 AD. However, we are told in multiple passages that Christ will be revealed from heaven (AKA REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST), that God's furious wrath will be poured out upon the Beast and its Kingdom (followers).

They cannot be Rome because Rome as the legs of Dan 2 statue has already been divided into 2 feet and 10 toes. The Rock which strikes the statue is not striking Rome but rather the feet and toes. Further, Rev 13 discusses a beast which came from the region of the Lion, Leopard, Bear which is north of Israel. Rome is almost exactly due West. This Beast has 7 heads, one of which was mortally wounded but heals. This is a much longer topic but the short of it is, this beast is ISLAMIC.

I for the last several years have done nothing other than sit and read through post on certain topics and emails from from acquaintances I have read,also post #211. In fact I had read from the first post of this thread until I first posted and from there to here. I followed along because I knew the conclusions I had formed after my own studies and was interested in how you and others arrived at your conclusions after your studies.

In what you have said, you say that the beast that received the mortal wound is the beast in question? If so then at the time the Revelation was received ad60approx-96(everyone differs on date) the beast that received the wound has either already existed prior to the time Revelation was written or it did not yet exist.


In Revelation 13:3 "one of his heads" had received an deadly wound. In Revelation 13:12 an image is made to the head whose deadly wound was/will be healed. So at the time the image is erected and the mark is to be fulfilled/enforced that head had already been/existed in history had received it's wound in history and had been healed for Rev. 13:12 to say "deadly wound was healed" in past tense terminology/reference.

In revelation 17:8 a mystery is explained of the beast that was(past tense,at that time),was not(present tense at that time) and would ascend out of the bottomless pit(future tense at the time given).

So if the beast is the same Rev.13 as the head/beast in Revelation 17:8 then it had already existed in history before the Revelation was written(Islam did not exist in history prior to the writing of Revelation) .

So as I have said I have read along and also I will add that I have seen articles and post connecting Islam to the beast in question but have not seen anyone be able to show that Islam existed prior to Rev.17:8 being written. Now maybe you can show that it is or else that Islam existed before that point in history,then it would make sense that it was,was not and ascended out of the pit.

 

[iamsoandso]

The Abomination of Desolation was of circa 66-70 AD. The Temple was so desecrated long before it was destroyed. Sacrifices ended back then and there have been no sacrifices since. There is no direct prophesy of a new temple being built. In fact the location of the old temple is basically gone. As a point of interest, the Wailing Wall wasn't even part of the old temple wall, it was part of the wall protecting the Roman fort Antonia about 600 feet to the north.

As for the "mark" it had nothing to do with Rome in the end times scenario. This is the most misunderstood thing. The mark isn't the only thing needed to buy or sell. One could also have the number, or name of the beast. This alone totally destroys any idea that the mark is some type of computer chip.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Yes in addition to the "or's" there is also found in the Revelation 22:18 that the same plagues written in the book would also be poured out on them if they added to or took away from them. So the or's you mention plus Rev.22:18.


In Matthew 24:15-21 the exact time as to when the tribulation would begin is told, Matthew 24:15. So the tribulation begins when the AOD is seen,Matthew 24:21 that is it is the event Jesus said to them/us to look for.

So when Jesus said it if it was something ongoing like a condition of sin or state of fall on the part of Israel/the world then it would have at that time been seen and Jesus would not need to tell them to look for it to take place in the future.

So at the time Jesus made these statements the AOD was still something that would come after,hence he instructs them to look for it to take place instead of pointing it out happening at that time. So from ad33-ad70(after Jesus said this) is where they saw the AOD if it was set up before ad70/DOJ.

Now back to the tribulation of Matthew 24:21 which begins when they see the AOD Matthew 24;15 it either was set up,they saw it before ad70 or it has not been set up nor seen yet but the tribulation spoken of cannot begin until the AOD is seen according to Jesus. Is there an event in history between ad32-33 and ad70 that fulfils the AOD being set up and seen?

 

[iamsoandso]

By the way I don’t see a computer chip theory holding up either.

 

[Dan58]

This may be the most confusing inaccurate thread I've seen on CC . The preterist having the tribulation as a past occurrence is ridiculous. Mat 24, Luk 21 and Mk 13 aren't that complicated, they are detailed in Revelation 6. Example; Mark 13:6 is repeated in Rev 6:2, Mk 13:7 = Rev 6:4, Mk 13:8 = Rev 6:6, Mk 13:9 = Rev 6:9, Mk 13:13 = Rev 6:11, Mk 13:26 = Rev 6:17, etc.

The last 7 years of the prophecy (Daniel 9; 24-27) still await fulfillment. Its in the middle of that seventieth week, when we see the desolator (antiChrist) standing where he ought not. This has not occurred yet. Timeline explained; APPENDIX 91. THE SEVENTY WEEKS OF DAN 9:24-27

 

[Spurgeoncy]

Well said Alan

Hello. I just found his forum today so I’ve not had time to read every post, but I will try my best to do so. I understand the original topic to be “How long is the tribulation?” KJV1611 mentioned Rev 11:2 in his initial post which says, “and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months”. Well, I have read the book of Revelation many times and I have a couple of questions which are related to the topic of this forum.

1. Reading the posts in this forum I see a lot of references to the Old Testament book of Daniel. I too believe that Revelation cannot be understood without an understanding of the book of Daniel. The two books are prophetic writings which appear to be about the same events. Dan 12:4 says, “But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end.” And again in Dan 12:9 we read, “Go the way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed to the time of the end.” If these verses are telling us that the book of Daniel is “shut up” till the “time of the end” then when is the time of the end? When will it, or did it, start and how will it unseal the words of Daniel’s writings so that we can fully understand what they mean? Wouldn’t God tell us specifically when this time would begin if our understanding of Daniel’s writings depends on it? Can we really understand the book of Revelation without a good understanding of the book Daniel?
2. The book of Revelation contains lots of symbolic language describing things that must represent something else which the author was trying to describe at the time. If we say that every word of Revelation is literal and not symbolic then we can expect a seven headed beast to rise up out of the sea and come ashore sometime in the future. If some of the book is written using symbolic language, then which parts are symbolic and which parts are to be taken literally? Wouldn’t God have given us the key to understanding the difference between the literal and the symbolic of prophesy? How do we discern the difference?

 

[KJV1611]

0

This may be the most confusing inaccurate thread I've seen on CC . The preterist having the tribulation as a past occurrence is ridiculous. Mat 24, Luk 21 and Mk 13 aren't that complicated, they are detailed in Revelation 6. Example; Mark 13:6 is repeated in Rev 6:2, Mk 13:7 = Rev 6:4, Mk 13:8 = Rev 6:6, Mk 13:9 = Rev 6:9, Mk 13:13 = Rev 6:11, Mk 13:26 = Rev 6:17, etc.

The last 7 years of the prophecy (Daniel 9; 24-27) still await fulfillment. Its in the middle of that seventieth week, when we see the desolator (antiChrist) standing where he ought not. This has not occurred yet. Timeline explained; APPENDIX 91. THE SEVENTY WEEKS OF DAN 9:24-27

What part of Matthew 24 do you believe hasn't been fulfilled?

 

[Spurgeoncy]

Most people who try to understand The Olivet Prophecies are stymied by the translation.

Sunteleia Aion - translated End of the World in the KJV, perplexes people because they assume the disciples are asking primarily about Christ's Second Coming.

Correctly understood, they actually are asking about the destruction of Jerusalem.

"When will these things be?"

&

"When is the End of The Age?"

That they also ask about Jesus' Second Coming in the middle, "what will be the sign of your coming?" may reflect some confusion in their minds.

We know that 'sunteleia aion' means end of the age, because Paul uses it in this context in Hebrews 9:

But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the age to remove sin by the sacrifice of himself.

The End of the Age is the End of the Old Covenant.

The dispies never grasp basic things like this, and go round and round the merry go round endlessly, creating untold confusion, like Ahwatukee.

 

[KJV1611]

Most people who try to understand The Olivet Prophecies are stymied by the translation.

Sunteleia Aion - translated End of the World in the KJV, perplexes people because they assume the disciples are asking primarily about Christ's Second Coming.

Correctly understood, they actually are asking about the destruction of Jerusalem.

"When will these things be?"

&

"When is the End of The Age?"

That they also ask about Jesus' Second Coming in the middle, "what will be the sign of your coming?" may reflect some confusion in their minds.

We know that 'sunteleia aion' means end of the age, because Paul uses it in this context in Hebrews 9:

But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the age to remove sin by the sacrifice of himself.

The End of the Age is the End of the Old Covenant.

The dispies never grasp basic things like this, and go round and round the merry go round endlessly, creating untold confusion, like Ahwatukee.

Matthew 24:27 KJV
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Wouldn't that be the end of the world?

 

[Spurgeoncy]

You got me thinking now....lol


but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. 23 Then if anyone says to you,

Maybe the 'then' means 'once the days of judgment (those days = the 7 days of Daniel's 70th week) have elapsed, then.....'

 

[iamsoandso]

Most people who try to understand The Olivet Prophecies are stymied by the translation.

Sunteleia Aion - translated End of the World in the KJV, perplexes people because they assume the disciples are asking primarily about Christ's Second Coming.

Correctly understood, they actually are asking about the destruction of Jerusalem.

"When will these things be?"

&

"When is the End of The Age?"

That they also ask about Jesus' Second Coming in the middle, "what will be the sign of your coming?" may reflect some confusion in their minds.

We know that 'sunteleia aion' means end of the age, because Paul uses it in this context in Hebrews 9:

But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the age to remove sin by the sacrifice of himself.

The End of the Age is the End of the Old Covenant.

The dispies never grasp basic things like this, and go round and round the merry go round endlessly, creating untold confusion, like Ahwatukee.

Aeon/world is a key as to this and it's meaning. In Luke 21:7 they ask him about the stones of the building and when what he said about them would come to pass but not about his coming. In Mark 14:4 the wording is different it ask about the signs of the things he described about the stones coming to pass.

In Matthew 24:3 they ask him about the things he said about the stones,about the sign of his coming,and about the end of the aeon.

You said his second coming but at that time Jesus had tried to tell them he was going to die and then be raised the third day but each time they did not understand. Then from that time on to the end of the gospels they still did not understand that he would return in a "second coming" they regarded him as present tense "there among them/Israel" and this continued beyond his resurrection i.e. they were all sad he was dead,needed to be told he rose from the dead,would not believe he was raised from the dead unless he(Thomas) could see the nail holes and put his finger in the spear hole.

This was the manner they saw things in regard until they were told that they would see him return the same way they saw him taken up in Acts 1:11,Acts 3:20 . So following the scriptures as to when they saw the concept of an "second coming" and comparing it to Matthew 24:3 it seems they were asking him about the sign of his "first coming" in fulfilment of the things written about it.

Bare in mind they did believe he was the Messiah and he had just said that not one stone would be left standing so they thought how can he be the one,the king that is coming to free us from Rome’s rule,make all of the nations bow to Israel ect. as is written if none of the stones will be left standing. So it would seem more likely that they were asking about his sign of his first coming.

 

[PlainWord]

iamsoandso,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Here's my take on the issues you raise.

In what you have said, you say that the beast that received the mortal wound is the beast in question? If so then at the time the Revelation was received ad60approx-96(everyone differs on date) the beast that received the wound has either already existed prior to the time Revelation was written or it did not yet exist.

I am fully aware that many renown scholars believe Rev 13 is in the past and dealt with Nero. Others think the Roman Catholic Church is at issue. After many years of study on these and all other options out there, I've concluded that the events of Rev 13 are future to AD 96 (or whenever John wrote it).

In Revelation 13:3 "one of his heads" had received an deadly wound. In Revelation 13:12 an image is made to the head whose deadly wound was/will be healed. So at the time the image is erected and the mark is to be fulfilled/enforced that head had already been/existed in history had received it's wound in history and had been healed for Rev. 13:12 to say "deadly wound was healed" in past tense terminology/reference.

My view is that this "image" is really a "copy." I believe the 7 heads on the singular beast carrying a Harlot (or false religion) are 7 historical evil Satanic controlled Empires. In order, they were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome and the Ottoman Empire. These 7 kingdoms are successive with one taking over after the other without break until the Ottoman Empire was dismantled following WWI. These kingdoms all persecuted (with many enslaving), or controlled Israel and the Levant. The Ottoman Empire was the head which was mortally wounded because there was no empire that replaced it. The Beast appeared to have died. However, the image or copy of this beast is none other than a rebirth of the Ottoman Empire under ISLAMIC control.

The Harlot (false religion) of Satan continued the same sun, moon and star worship through each empire. This worship of course violates Exo 20. Before the Ottomans, this religion was polytheistic. Muhammad, wanting to gain the support of Jews and Christians as he wanted to invent a one-world religion, realized that he needed a monotheistic religion for it to gain broad acceptance. Therefore Allah (the god of ISLAM) is called the God of the Universe and has no son. This makes ISLAM an AntiChrist religion according to 1 John 2:22.

Now obviously the Sons of Ishmael have links back to Abraham. Their descendants came out of Egypt as Hagar was an Egyptian. The manner of worship of Islam is identical to Babylonian worship of Dan 3. They bow down and face Mecca 5 times a day when they heard the call to worship music. Their symbol is the crescent moon and star. The position of the sun determines when they are to pray. Their temple, the Kaaba is in the shape of a cube. Located in the corner is the Kaaba Stone, a black meteor which fell from the sky. This same image from the sky is believed to have been in the Temple of Diana that the Greeks worshiped when Paul was there (Acts 19:35). They worship a black stone, we are white stones (Rev 2:17) in the spiritual temple of God.

Islam teaches to kill all infidels particularly by beheading. John saw the souls of those beheaded who would not worship (serve) the Beast in Rev 20. Mecca is located on 7 hills. A nuke set off at Mecca would be seen all the way across the Red Sea which is the second busiest shipping lane in the world.

I could go on and on...

In revelation 17:8 a mystery is explained of the beast that was(past tense,at that time),was not(present tense at that time) and would ascend out of the bottomless pit(future tense at the time given).

So if the beast is the same Rev.13 as the head/beast in Revelation 17:8 then it had already existed in history before the Revelation was written(Islam did not exist in history prior to the writing of Revelation) .

Correct, the religion morphed under each Beast empire. The Babylonian priests wore the below amulet. Obviously you can see the 666 at the bottom. You can see the numbers are from 1 - 36. Add them up, 1, 2, 3, ...35, 36 and you get 666. These numbers are arranged so that each row adds up to 111. Each of the 36 numbers represented a Babylonian god from the universe. If you look close you will see a cube outline in the below, just like the shape of the Kaaba.

For more detail you can go to the below link or just Google "Babylonian Amulet.

666 The Number Of The Beast And The Origin

In reality this worship of the sun, moon and stars goes back to Babel and the days of Nimrod. Many people realize that God hated Esau because he sold his birthright but they don't realize that as the first born, Esau's birthright was Israel. Esau, not Jacob should have been the father of Israel. To make matters worse, when Issac refused to give his blessing, Esau married the daughter of Ishmael. Therefore Esau married into the line which would become Muhammad and ISLAM.

So as I have said I have read along and also I will add that I have seen articles and post connecting Islam to the beast in question but have not seen anyone be able to show that Islam existed prior to Rev.17:8 being written. Now maybe you can show that it is or else that Islam existed before that point in history,then it would make sense that it was,was not and ascended out of the pit.

Islam itself didn't exist until the 7th century as you note. This is why John refers to it as "Mystery Babylon." Islam was a mystery to him. He was taken into the desert or wilderness and shown the harlot. Mecca was nothing back then. Rome or Jerusalem, the two more popular views are not in a wilderness and John would have recognized either. He did not recognize Mecca. Further, when Babylon is destroyed people throw dust on their heads. This is a Muslim way to mourn.

Again, the Beast was lead by historical heads. The 7th head will come back and maybe coming back already. A Caliphate has been declared (again). It remain to be seen if this Caliphate will be as powerful as we are told in Rev. However, note also the 4th seal which I believe ties to Rev 13. Islam makes up 1/4 of the world now and they kill by all the various means listed. Also, the horse is not pale but rather green. The word is Chloros which is translated green everywhere else it appears in the Bible. In Islam, green represents "Paradise" which is where the Jihadist thinks he goes when he dies for Allah, but instead, Death and Hades follows him.

 

[Spurgeoncy]

Matthew 24:27 KJV
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Wouldn't that be the end of the world?

Reading it again Rob, no it means nothing like that.

All Jesus is saying is that at a certain point people would start trying to kid the Elect (the Church) into believing jesus had returned. By the context I think he meant during the 70th week, AD67-73. So, having moved to safety in Pella, it then seems like false prophets would try to draw the Church back into dangerous places - the desert, the inner chambers. The point being that this 7 year period was a total bloodbath across Judea, and you really needed to be in a place of divine sanctuary, as the Church was.

So all Jesus is saying is don't let anybody fool you into believing I have returned, because when I come it will be a cosmic heavenly event like no other.

Many people today (hardcore Preterists) misunderstand AD 70 and believe that Jesus returned then, so presumably there is a scriptural trap that people can fall into also, which jesus was really counselling them on.

 

[PlainWord]

Yes in addition to the "or's" there is also found in the Revelation 22:18 that the same plagues written in the book would also be poured out on them if they added to or took away from them. So the or's you mention plus Rev.22:18.

Yes!

In Matthew 24:15-21 the exact time as to when the tribulation would begin is told, Matthew 24:15. So the tribulation begins when the AOD is seen,Matthew 24:21 that is it is the event Jesus said to them/us to look for.

Correct. However, look at the companion passage from Luke. Luke gives a different trigger.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.

So in this passage you have Rome surrounding Jerusalem as the trigger but in Mark 13 and Mat 24, it's the Abomination of Desolation. Josephus wrote that King Harod once set up a Golden Eagle at the Gate to the Temple. The Zealots and priests of the day considered it an abomination as it represented Rome. They were fearful of taking it down least Herod kill them. Regardless they took it down. Late when Rome invaded, Titus matched behind the same Golden Eagle ensign or insignia. Not saying that the Eagle was set up at the temple, because the Abomination of Desolation wasn't set up at the Temple anyway.

Dan 11 tells us that the Abomination of Desolation is set up at the fortress of the sanctuary which was perhaps the Roman Antonia Fortress built by Herod and named after Marc Anthony. Dan 12 clarifies Dan 11 and states that first the temple would be defiled ending sacrifices. We know this happened. The Jews defiled their temple repeatedly during the seize by murdering each other and fighting inside. The also raided the holy articles, cups, lampstands etc. We know that sacrifices ended at some point before Rome took the temple. Dan 11 says it was 1,290 days from that point until the A of D is set up at the fortress.

Again, the key to this is knowing that the AD 70 events ended after Mat 24:26. Then Christ goes on to explain that when He returns it will be as lightening. It is God's wrath of Mat 24:28 that is the tribulation that immediately precedes the return of Christ.

 

[PlainWord]

Reading it again Rob, no it means nothing like that.

All Jesus is saying is that at a certain point people would start trying to kid the Elect (the Church) into believing jesus had returned. By the context I think he meant during the 70th week, AD67-73. So, having moved to safety in Pella, it then seems like false prophets would try to draw the Church back into dangerous places - the desert, the inner chambers. The point being that this 7 year period was a total bloodbath across Judea, and you really needed to be in a place of divine sanctuary, as the Church was.

So all Jesus is saying is don't let anybody fool you into believing I have returned, because when I come it will be a cosmic heavenly event like no other.

Many people today (hardcore Preterists) misunderstand AD 70 and believe that Jesus returned then, so presumably there is a scriptural trap that people can fall into also, which jesus was really counselling them on.

YES< YES 100% correct!!

 

[KJV1611]

Reading it again Rob, no it means nothing like that.

All Jesus is saying is that at a certain point people would start trying to kid the Elect (the Church) into believing jesus had returned. By the context I think he meant during the 70th week, AD67-73. So, having moved to safety in Pella, it then seems like false prophets would try to draw the Church back into dangerous places - the desert, the inner chambers. The point being that this 7 year period was a total bloodbath across Judea, and you really needed to be in a place of divine sanctuary, as the Church was.

So all Jesus is saying is don't let anybody fool you into believing I have returned, because when I come it will be a cosmic heavenly event like no other.

Many people today (hardcore Preterists) misunderstand AD 70 and believe that Jesus returned then, so presumably there is a scriptural trap that people can fall into also, which jesus was really counselling them on.

I agree with that.

 

[Dan58]

0
What part of Matthew 24 do you believe hasn't been fulfilled?

Everything after verse eight.

 

[GaryA]

Everything after verse eight.

Do you realize that - in 'event' terms - verses 7-8 occur after verses 9-13?

 

[PlainWord]

Do you realize that - in 'event' terms - verses 7-8 occur after verses 9-13?

Mat 24:1-26 Fulfilled in AD 66-70
Mat 24:27-51 Future

 

[PlainWord]

In reading The War of the Jews, by Josephus, it becomes very clear that all of the events Jesus foretells leading up to the Great Tribulation of Israel (v21) happened prior to AD 70. Before Rome surrounded Jerusalem, they attacked the northern and western parts of Israel (wars and rumors of wars). There was a severe famine throughout the known world in the days of Claudius Caesar (41-54 AD) as recorded in Acts 11:28. After Rome surrounded Jerusalem and built a seize wall, the famine inside the city was so bad that 100,000s died. They had to throw the bodies over the wall by the 1,000s or take them outside the gate at night by the 10,000s.

The warring factions of Jews were killing each other inside the city and anyone who tried to escape were considered defectors to the Romans and were killed by their own countrymen (brother betrayed brother, etc). The Jewish rebels horded the food and robbers would break in and steal more food from the people. The treatment of women and children (non-combatants) was horrific. It became so bad that many tried to defect to the Romans thinking it couldn't be any worse. They were wrong.

Many defecting Jews would swallow their gold and precious stones. They would tell the Zealots that they were going out to find food to bring back. Then they would defect to the Romans who at first would let them leave. They then had money to start a new life and another country. Some went north to Syria, others south to Egypt and Arabia and others east to Jordan. After awhile the Romans and particularly their conscripts from Arabia and Syria learned about the smuggling and started disemboweling the escapees in search of gold. Even though only a small percentage actually contained any gold, they will just kill everybody trying to escape the city. When Titus learned of this, he was furious and ordered the practice halted, but it continued anyway.

The Roman solders suffered heavy losses from stones and darts being thrown at them and they also had problems getting sufficient food and were worn out from the hard work of building a seize wall around the city. They also used battering rams on the walls of the towers and Ft. Antonia.

When Nero died in 68, there was a brief pause in the action and some of the Romans troops fell back to rest and await orders. It must have been around this time that the Abomination of Desolation was set up. According to Josephus, abominable acts and murders were a daily occurrence in and around the temple. In any event, the Jewish Christians fled the city on foot to the east and made their escape to Pella. Not one Christian was lost. When the battle resumed, it occurred with full fury until Rome broke through the walls of Antonia and the additional weaker walls the Jews had erected inside.

Full of anger and vengeance for the huge effort and losses the Romans killed just about everybody except for some they kept as slaves to help literally dismantle every building and house in Jerusalem, stone by stone. They kept 3 Roman towers and part of Antonia fortress for their occupying fortress as a reminder of their victory. Other than that Jerusalem was totally desolate.

Bottom line, this was the Great Tribulation foretold by Jesus in Mat 24:21. A cross reference to Luke 21 makes this clear. During this worst tribulation that any nation had ever endured, many people rose up claiming to be Messiah and would deliver them from the Romans. People followed them to their deaths. So, in Mat 24:27 Jesus is basically saying, "Hey, when I come back its going to be fast. I'm not going to walk up to you claiming to be Christ. I'll come like lightening." So, from verse 27 on, Jesus is discussing the future and the future wrath Tribulation which God pours out upon the wicked.

The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”

This is the Father telling the Son, don't go anywhere until I pour out my wrath upon your enemies. Notice, the wrath is only directed at Christ's enemies and not the righteous? There is no need for a pre-trib or pre-wrath rapture because we aren't appointed to wrath.

As for timing, the wrath is poured out WHEN JESUS IS REVEALED FROM HEAVEN WITH HIS MIGHTY ANGELS (AKA, the Revelation of Jesus Christ). This is taught in several places.