How long is the tribulation?

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PlainWord

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Jun 11, 2013
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Revelation 12:5-6 KJV
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
[6] And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

When did the woman flee into the wilderness?
In AD 69 just before the Romans destroyed the city. I've been studying this.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

There can be no denying that the above dealt with the attack in AD 66-70. The Jewish Church on Mount Zion, were aware of the above prophesy. When they saw this they fled over the mountains to Pella. Not one Christian was killed while 1.1 million non-Christian Jews were slaughtered.

Here is a link to a good read on this. It's not too long.

Did Jerusalem Christians Flee to Pella?
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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I agree with this, do you agree that Jerusalem is still tread under the feet of the Gentiles?
In reality it still is but also the Jews. However, the passage in question dealt only with the period in AD66-70 because after this, there was no city to tread. Nobody lived there after this for awhile. Jerusalem became totally 100% desolate. Nothing of Jerusalem was left. Jesus lamented this future state before His triumphal entry as we see in Luke 19. Jesus claims that the entire city was to be leveled with nothing left.

[SUP]41 [/SUP]Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, [SUP]42 [/SUP]saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. [SUP]43 [/SUP]For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, [SUP]44 [/SUP]and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”

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Nov 23, 2013
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In AD 69 just before the Romans destroyed the city. I've been studying this.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

There can be no denying that the above dealt with the attack in AD 66-70. The Jewish Church on Mount Zion, were aware of the above prophesy. When they saw this they fled over the mountains to Pella. Not one Christian was killed while 1.1 million non-Christian Jews were slaughtered.

Here is a link to a good read on this. It's not too long.

Did Jerusalem Christians Flee to Pella?

i agree it happened back then and she is still hidden in the wilderness to this day. Just like Jerusalem is still tread under foot... the tribulation has been going on for 2000 years. There is no such thing as a 7 year tribulation.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Read the below in red from Josephus:

1. THUS did the miseries of Jerusalem grow worse and worse every day, and the seditious were still more irritated by the calamities they were under, even while the famine preyed upon themselves, after it had preyed upon the people. And indeed the multitude of carcasses that lay in heaps one upon another was a horrible sight, and produced a pestilential stench, which was a hinderance to those that would make sallies out of the city, and fight the enemy: but as those were to go in battle-array, who had been already used to ten thousand murders, and must tread upon those dead bodies as they marched along, so were not they terrified, nor did they pity men as they marched over them; nor did they deem this affront offered to the deceased to be any ill omen to themselves; but as they had their right hands already polluted with the murders of their own countrymen, and in that condition ran out to fight with foreigners, they seem to me to have cast a reproach upon God himself, as if he were too slow in punishing them; for the war was not now gone on with as if they had any hope of victory; for they gloried after a brutish manner in that despair of deliverance they were already in.

And now the Romans, although they were greatly distressed in getting together their materials, raised their banks in one and twenty days, after they had cut down all the trees that were in the country that adjoined to the city, and that for ninety furlongs round about, as I have already related. And truly the very view itself of the country was a melancholy thing; for those places which were before adorned with trees and pleasant gardens were now become a desolate country every way, and its trees were all cut down: nor could any foreigner that had formerly seen Judea and the most beautiful suburbs of the city, and now saw it as a desert, but lament and mourn sadly at so great a change: for the war had laid all the signs of beauty quite waste: nor if any one that had known the place before, had come on a sudden to it now, would he have known it again; but though he were at the city itself, yet would he have inquired for it notwithstanding.
(War VI, 1, 1).

Compare now with Luke 19:

[SUP]41 [/SUP]Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, [SUP]42 [/SUP]saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. [SUP]43 [/SUP]For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, [SUP]44 [/SUP]and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”


and Mat 24:

[SUP]21 [/SUP]For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. [SUP]22 [/SUP]And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

Folks, the Great Tribulation we have all be talking about is long in the past. It's over. Notice the language I highlighted, "nor ever shall be." This means no country will ever endure tribulation like this again.
 
Dec 13, 2016
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The Great Distress was a 7 year period from AD 67-73.

There never has nor ever will be such a period of distress in human history.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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i agree it happened back then and she is still hidden in the wilderness to this day. Just like Jerusalem is still tread under foot... the tribulation has been going on for 2000 years. There is no such thing as a 7 year tribulation.
Agreed, there is no such thing as a 7 year Tribulation. It was a 3.5 year tribulation and was in AD 66-70. Again, this passage:

Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. [SUP]2 [/SUP]But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.

In the above, this is the temple where the Jews worshiped while Titus surrounded them. After the 42 months Titus broke through and after a few more months there was no city left to tread underfoot.

We can now understand Rev 12:

The Woman was obviously Israel. When Jesus returned to Heaven, war broke out. Can you imagine Satan being in heaven with Jesus after Satan thought he had killed Jesus and won? Now Jesus gets to confront his murderer. I can't even imagine that scene. Satan was cast down and waged war with Israel using the Romans, the same people he used to kill Jesus.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child.

Satan persecuted Israel. He was so angry that he sought to utterly and completely destroy Israel and kill every Jew. He managed to kill 1.1 million but by miracle, the Christian Jews escaped to the mountains and settled in Pella.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Since then (and before then) Satan has been attacking the Church. This "tribulation" of the Church continues to this day.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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The Great Distress was a 7 year period from AD 67-73.

There never has nor ever will be such a period of distress in human history.
im speaking of all of these 42 month and time times and half time that people call the "Great Tribulation"... that doesn't exist and those verses don't support it.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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The Great Distress was a 7 year period from AD 67-73.

There never has nor ever will be such a period of distress in human history.
After AD 70 the war was over except for the small band of Zealots on Masada, but you are correct, they finally got to them in 73 but found most had committed suicide.

Can you imagine, the entire city of Jerusalem was gone, worse than being nuked. It was as if a millstone was put around her neck and the entire city thrown into the sea. Jerusalem, as it was in the days of Christ, was completely gone. It was desolate just as predicted in Daniel 9. Only remnants of the Roman fort and 3 towers remained.

...and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Because of the many sins of the Jews, Titus (by God's design) burned the city, removed every stone from the entire city and left none living there for a period of time.
 

PlainWord

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Jun 11, 2013
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You guys want to see something cool? I posted this on another thread so perhaps you didn't see it.

[SUP]24[/SUP]Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

I used to think the Jews and Jerusalem were given 70 weeks (70 x 7 years) to complete the above list of things. In reality, they were given 70 x 7 weeks or 490 years to accomplish these things. Some of these things they did not accomplish in the allotted time.

For instance, the Jews did not, "
make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity." They killed Christ and continued in their ways sinning against God. They didn't pay for (reconcile) or repent of their ways. When the 490 years were up, their time was up.

Look at what Christ says below. This was no accident. He was totally taking this from Dan 9.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

Up to 70 x 7, just like God gave Israel 70 x 7 weeks to put an end to sins, reconcile for them and bring in righteousness. Let's not forget, Israel was being punished with 70 years of captivity in Babylon for not observing the Sabbath rest for the Land. Daniel pleaded with God to forgive and restore them. I now think God agreed and gave them 70 x 7 years to show that they would change and start obeying Him and being His people. They failed again so this time, the punishment was even more harsh. He totally destroyed Jerusalem and left nothing of it, total desolation!! Just as Daniel was told would happen.

Did I nail this or what???
 
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Dec 13, 2016
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im speaking of all of these 42 month and time times and half time that people call the "Great Tribulation"... that doesn't exist and those verses don't support it.
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.



 
Dec 12, 2013
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20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.



Amen...Daniel 12....1335 days left when it starts.......the first 1185 days of the 70th week being the ministry of Jesus unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.....they rejected Christ and will endure the last half!
 
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Persuaded

Guest

Daniel 9:27 (KJV)

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.



I take it that the he is the one you are talking about. The sentence uses an and to show us it is connected to the first part and all the other parts are connected tot he first part as well.

he whoever that is (and you say it is Jesus) does the whole passage. OR I guess we can add faulty word structure to your reasoning here as well.
[/QUOTE

Yes, He, Jesus does everything in verse 27.
Verse 26 tells us that Jerusalem and the temple will be destroyed.
Titus did this in 70 AD. Everything destroyed and everyone scattered.
He in verse 27 refers back to the Messiah in verse 26 who was cut off after three and a half weeks.

"AND (ties this verse to verse 26 and the Messiah) He ,the Messiah, Jesus shall confirm THE covenant (Not make a new covenant, peace treaty) with many (not all, not most)
for one week,
AND in the mist of the week (when He the Messiah is cut off) He, the Messiah, Jesus, shall cause the sacrifice AND the oblation to cease ( no longer valid, Jesus crucified, the perfect, sinless sacrifice for all sin)
AND for (because) the overspreading of abominations (notice this is plural indicating many abominations, The priest, the temple worship, and Israel as a whole was a mess just like before their exile to Babylon)) He, the Messiah, Jesus shall make it ( the city and sanctuary destroyed by Titus in verse 26) desolate even until the consummation (completion, termination, full end) AND that determined (decided, decreed ) shall be poured upon the desolate (appalled)"

There is no anti-christ---
There is no 7 year peace treaty---
There is no NEW abomination set up in Dan. 9.
 
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GaryA

Guest
You guys want to see something cool? I posted this on another thread so perhaps you didn't see it.

[SUP]24[/SUP]Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

I used to think the Jews and Jerusalem were given 70 weeks (70 x 7 years) to complete the above list of things. In reality, they were given 70 x 7 weeks or 490 years to accomplish these things. Some of these things they did not accomplish in the allotted time.

For instance, the Jews did not, "
make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity." They killed Christ and continued in their ways sinning against God. They didn't pay for (reconcile) or repent of their ways. When the 490 years were up, their time was up.

Look at what Christ says below. This was no accident. He was totally taking this from Dan 9.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

Up to 70 x 7, just like God gave Israel 70 x 7 weeks to put an end to sins, reconcile for them and bring in righteousness. Let's not forget, Israel was being punished with 70 years of captivity in Babylon for not observing the Sabbath rest for the Land. Daniel pleaded with God to forgive and restore them. I now think God agreed and gave them 70 x 7 years to show that they would change and start obeying Him and being His people. They failed again so this time, the punishment was even more harsh. He totally destroyed Jerusalem and left nothing of it, total desolation!! Just as Daniel was told would happen.

Did I nail this or what???
"No you didn't --- sorry..."

God is [ essentially ] telling them that they have 490 years left while God accomplishes [ all of those things ]. He is not giving them 490 years to accomplish anything ( in the sense of making the right 'decisions' ) - the 'judgment' has already been "passed" - He is telling them "what is going to happen" in a pre-determined span of time.

The 'list' was not for them to complete. They did not accomplish anything in the list -- other than by way of God using them to accomplish it.

All of this is simply the out-working of God's plan in His time.

The "sense and tense" of the phrase "are determined upon" is one of "judgment already passed" -- not "you have this long to get-in-shape or else"...

:)
 
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GaryA

Guest
The "sense and tense" of the phrase "are determined upon" is one of "judgment already passed" -- not "you have this long to get-in-shape or else"...
It is really a bit more general than that -- I am just trying to make a point here..."

:)
 
Dec 2, 2016
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There are some good points here, it is obvious to me that the tribulation Jesus described that would occur in that generation did in fact occur in that generation, around 70ad. However Jesus said something else, He said that immediately following the tribulation that the heavens would be shaken and that He would return in the sky to gather the believers. OK, the tribulation did happen, however immediately following that tribulation the heavens have not been shaken and Jesus did not return in the sky to gather the believers. The only possible answer is a double meaning, one tribulation for national Israel that happened in 70ad, and another tribulation for the world at the end of the age just before Christ return.
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
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What exactly do you mean by "does the whole passage"...? Or, did you mean to say verse?

Oh well,,,, blame me,,,my secretary had the day off...LOL



he whoever that is (and you say it is Jesus) does the whole passage. OR I guess we can add faulty word structure to your reasoning here as well.

'he' whoever that is (and you say it is Jesus) ' is the only (one person or God) that is represented in Daniel 9:27


 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
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One needs to put in time in bible study, however it is HOW we study the bible that counts, it is vital that we love truth above everything else. Your example of why there are four gospels is interesting, however the truth is that we do not KNOW why there are four gospels...that whole scenario was speculation which is different then established truth.

Can you not read the Bible and verify all the points for each Gospel.


I give up.......... Good luck fellows your going to need it.
 
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GaryA

Guest
There are some good points here, it is obvious to me that the tribulation Jesus described that would occur in that generation did in fact occur in that generation, around 70ad. However Jesus said something else, He said that immediately following the tribulation that the heavens would be shaken and that He would return in the sky to gather the believers. OK, the tribulation did happen, however immediately following that tribulation the heavens have not been shaken and Jesus did not return in the sky to gather the believers. The only possible answer is a double meaning, one tribulation for national Israel that happened in 70ad, and another tribulation for the world at the end of the age just before Christ return.
There is another possible answer:

The Great Tribulation started ~70 A.D. - is still ongoing today - and, will end in the future. ( And, with the worst yet to come. )

This is the only 'answer' that fits all of biblical End Times Scenario prophecy.

:)
 
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GaryA

Guest

Oh well,,,, blame me,,,my secretary had the day off...LOL



he whoever that is (and you say it is Jesus) does the whole passage. OR I guess we can add faulty word structure to your reasoning here as well.

'he' whoever that is (and you say it is Jesus) ' is the only (one person or God) that is represented in Daniel 9:27


If I understand you correctly, then we are in agreement.

"Man, I will sure be glad when your secretary gets back..." :p :eek: ;) :eek:

:D

:)
 
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GaryA

Guest
There is another possible answer:

The Great Tribulation started ~70 A.D. - is still ongoing today - and, will end in the future. ( And, with the worst yet to come. )

This is the only 'answer' that fits all of biblical End Times Scenario prophecy.

:)
I would like to encourage everyone to look at End Times Scenario prophecy with this possibility in mind...



In every place where you study End Times Scenario prophecy, ask yourself the question:

"What does it actually say?"



Forget what you have been taught by others. Listen only to the scriptures. Always remember to ask:

"What does it actually say?"



The Bible does not tell us that the Great Tribulation is a [ relatively ] short period of time, yet many people believe that it MUST be a [ relatively ] short period of time.



The Bible tells us about the beginning of it. The Bible tells us about the ending of it.



"What does it actually say?"


:)