How mysticism is undermining Bible Christianity today

[Nehemiah6]

Christ, the anointing Holy Spirit of God is the mediator as the Son of God our High priest continually .. The Son of man resisted being called daysman "A fleshly mediator that stand between fleshly man seen and God not seen as a infallible teacher"

1. You are confusing the Son with the Holy Spirit. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are distinct from each other, yet they are all God (Mt 28:19).

2. Christ ascended to Heaven in His resurrected and glorified human body, and He will remain in that body for eternity (Acts 1:9-11). Christ is indeed the Mediator between God and men, and He is not the Holy Spirit. He is "the Man Christ Jesus" (1 Tim 2:5)

3. You are misapplying the term "fleshly" which pertains to the sin nature. Jesus did NOT have a sin nature, yet He was fully sinless Man through the supernatural virgin birth.

4. It would appear that you have adopted the doctrines of the Gnostic heretics, and are promoting heresies.

 

[garee]

You're going off on a rabbit trail. I'm not going to join you on it.

Christ is not the Holy Spirit, and where in Scripture did He resist being called a daysman?

Christ, meaning "anointed one" The one that does the work in us, anointing as the one teacher not seen ……. called the Holy Spirit, or the Spirt of Christ (same difference). Not a rabbit trail. What"s up Doc Dino. LOL Jump in.

You would have to study how the word daysman as a fleshly mediator is used. It would seem you and not I are the one trying to make the Son of Man Jesus into a man, as a fleshly mediator. Might pay to do some research. Never know you could find a nugget or a hidden pearl.?

You really seem to like the word, "daysman", despite the fact that it appears only once in the KJV and not at all in modern translations; not even in the New KJV. Why do you use a word repeatedly that is not used in modern English?

It my goal to try and help the modern English . Its one of those valuable words that seem to get overlooked somewhat. Won't hurt to try and keep it alive.

The original meaning can't change if you look to the context.

The words; "Jesus wept" only appear once. .Does it take away the meaning?

Jesus did not "refuse to stand in the holy place of faith". That isn't in Scripture anywhere.

Did you compare the spiritual understanding to the spiritual as prescribed in 1 Corinthians 2?

Faith comes by hearing the scriptures. Not the philosophies of men . Can't stick Christians in the group of paganism Man's religion.(no law of faith that could please God)

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: (not seen) but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Jesus grew up naturally. That is not corruption, but design.

God corrupted the whole creation by reason His design... called death . . . referring to the bodies we live in. .

Genesis 6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

You've crossed the line into heresy.

Sorry if I stepped on your toes. According to your heresy as a opinion?

You're still using your incorrect invented meaning for "circular reasoning".

You still have not connected the circle of God's perfect love that seals us in. That circle cannot be broken.. Works in group hugs.

Yes, as worship, which is exactly what that means, in clear English.

Really? Do you have a Catholic foundation? Thomas is their poster child, as an available idol image. The patron saint of walking by sight. The kind of theology; ......….Thomas did that. That confirms it end of story. Venerate Thomas along with the other 3500 and rising other available patron saints .

Are you saying Jesus congratulated Thomas with. . . . "Well done faithful steward, touch my whole body" Take a selfie. Or what he really said in response to what you call worship; " "to be not faithless, but believing"

No it does not. Thomas is not mentioned at all in 2 Corinthians 5. Once again you are adding to what is written.

If he knew Jesus as the Son of man he was part of it.

Think really carefully about what you are asking here. You seem to have acquired your basic theology from a highly questionable source.

And what source might that be ? I know I am questionable and fall short of the glory of God who says: we must have our differences amongst us . It is God who does make us differ from one another as he informed Paul as a warning not to puff up ones flesh and play "who is the greatest". .The Holy Spirit declaring . . What do you have that you have not received and if you have why would you boast, as if you did not. We walk by faith.Not by who looks the greatest.

That was the manner of spirit that occurred every time the spirit meaning in a parable was hid by Christ to teach them to walk by faith .When no understanding from the parable came the apostles world automatically play "who is the greatest" .As if Jesus was not right in front of them

 

[Mii]

Something which Christians should note is that Roman Catholic Mystics are associate with some seriously false doctrines. According to the website Mystics of the Church in which "THE AUTHOR ENDEAVORS ALWAYS TO BE IN COMMUNION WITH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND ITS TEACHINGS" we find this statement:

By the express Will of God, the Mystics are united with Jesus and Mary in suffering for the conversion of sinners. As victim souls, they are fastened to the Cross in union with Jesus in order to continue our Saviours offering to the Father, in reparation for our sins. In other words, they are coredeemers with Christ and their mission is to lead souls to God, because while Jesus obtained for us the possibility of our salvation, the work of our conversion and redemption is ongoing.

There is no biblical basis for such an idea.

I wonder if they are drawing some of that from Gal 2:20. Possibly that they made a conscious choice to do so and effectively drew all that out of such a choice. Idk. I don't get Catholicism as a religion. I do think there are Christians within the religion though, what percentage though is too hard to tell

 

[Hevosmies358]

What a winner post. My brother Nehemiah swung out the ballpark AGAIN. Praise God for this post and God bless you brother.-

 

[garee]

1. You are confusing the Son with the Holy Spirit. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are distinct from each other, yet they are all God (Mt 28:19).

Thanks for the reply. .. I don't think I am confusing them just offering another opinion

2. Christ ascended to Heaven in His resurrected and glorified human body, and He will remain in that body for eternity (Acts 1:9-11). Christ is indeed the Mediator between God and men, and He is not the Holy Spirit. He is "the Man Christ Jesus" (1 Tim 2:5)

Green denotes the anointing authority of God.

Christ, the anointing one Holy Spirit of God, is not a man as us. He is the Spirit of prophecy the Holy Spirit. Christ the anointing teacher warns of the spirit of the antichrist singular. . the father of lies as those who say we must have a fleshly mediator...... the many antichrists plural .

He informs us as it is written, as it "the anointing work of Christ" teaches us we abide in Him not seen. The power of the gospel we have in these bodies of death which are "of God" and not "of us".

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the "Father and the Son". Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the "Son, and in the Father". And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.1 John 2:22-27

Powerful verse against the antichrists (plural) Great comforting defense to those who do walk by faith not looking to glory in the flesh.

3. You are misapplying the term "fleshly" which pertains to the sin nature. Jesus did NOT have a sin nature, yet He was fully sinless Man through the supernatural virgin birth.

Sin is reckoned by the things seen. . . . the whole creation. It was a must for the Son of man to perform what the written law could not(Roman 8) . He was not sinner by heart as in natural unconverted man, the generation of Adam, called the evil generation.

The Power or the authority was not reckoned after the flesh, it was not through her supernatural birth . But the supernatural ressurection by the unseen Spirit of holiness No such thing as holiness of the flesh. Sinful flesh reckoned by what the eyes see was needed for the demonstration to do what the law that kills could not do bring new spirit life …..The law of faith

Romans 1:3-5 King James Version (KJV) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

4. It would appear that you have adopted the doctrines of the Gnostic heretics, and are promoting heresies.

Again its not a salvation issue more of how do you hear God in order to seek the approval of one not seen. Like fingerprints we all have a private interptation as a person bias.

LOL I would sand mine off but they come back.

 

[garee]

Something which Christians should note is that Roman Catholic Mystics are associate with some seriously false doctrines. According to the website Mystics of the Church in which "THE AUTHOR ENDEAVORS ALWAYS TO BE IN COMMUNION WITH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND ITS TEACHINGS" we find this statement:

By the express Will of God, the Mystics are united with Jesus and Mary in suffering for the conversion of sinners. As victim souls, they are fastened to the Cross in union with Jesus in order to continue our Saviours offering to the Father, in reparation for our sins. In other words, they are coredeemers with Christ and their mission is to lead souls to God, because while Jesus obtained for us the possibility of our salvation, the work of our conversion and redemption is ongoing.

There is no biblical basis for such an idea.

I would agree .

Its the mystics acting as mediators that give the illusion God is still briniging new revelations that would add to the perfect word of God, the Bible. All things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura) God's two witnesses is their arch enemy.

Mystics are the authors of Private Revelation .The win win because our Holy Mother asked it doctrine of the father of lies it was defined by Pope Urban. The "as if" doctrine as a law of the fathers (men )


‎3 PILLARS OF CHURCH AUTHORITY: POPE URBAN VIII | PRIVATE REVELATION:
† POPE URBAN VIII: "In cases which concern private revelations, it is better to believe than not to believe, for, if you believe, and it is proven true, you will be happy that you have believed, because our Holy Mother asked it. If you believe, and it should be proven false, you will receive all blessings "as if" it had been true, "because you believed it to be true." (Pope Urban VIII)

It would appear they changed up and turned upside down that forbidden private interpretations warning into the the idea of private revelations accusing the Protestants of having a private interpretation . Pot calling the kettle black .Mystisicm working full force.

 

[Dino246]

You still have not connected the circle of God's perfect love that seals us in. That circle cannot be broken.

 

[garee]

View attachment 199984

I have 143 more strands of hair and fatter. LOL

Perfect law draws perfect circles that seal the deal . For instance… Thou shall have no other gods before me . Why? Because you will surely die . Why will I surely die? Because the law of reasoning has established the end of the law as well as the beginning and magnifies above all His name as a law. (no open circuit) he himself is subject to . Not after the philosophies of men whose ends never meet because they a have different beginning , No closed circuitry to complete the reasoning . No faith. like the perfect or complete law law of God. the literal and the unseen law of faith mixed. . It hems us in keeping the enemy out. A fortress and not a prison, to the god or warden of this world The father of lies. .

Psalm 19:6-8 King James Version (KJV) His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.

That circle circuitry of God's perfect Law is not affected by the philosophies of men .It wil not be broken .

 

[Dino246]

I have 143 more strands of hair and fatter. LOL

Perfect law draws perfect circles that seal the deal . For instance… Thou shall have no other gods before me . Why? Because you will surely die . Why will I surely die? Because the law of reasoning has established the end of the law as well as the beginning and magnifies above all His name as a law. (no open circuit) he himself is subject to . Not after the philosophies of men whose ends never meet because they a have different beginning , No closed circuitry to complete the reasoning . No faith. like the perfect or complete law law of God. the literal and the unseen law of faith mixed. . It hems us in keeping the enemy out. A fortress and not a prison, to the god or warden of this world The father of lies. .

Psalm 19:6-8 King James Version (KJV) His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.

That circle circuitry of God's perfect Law is not affected by the philosophies of men .It wil not be broken .

View attachment 199988 View attachment 199988

Do you think I'm an atheist?

 

[Grandpa]

I think you are splitting hairs (to win a point?). By objective faith, I am referring to our faith that is based on an objective God doing an objective work in us. Mysticism's faith is based on conjecture, imagination, experiences, doctrines of demons and does not align with reality..

No. I don't really know much about mysticism except what was defined in the OP.

It is that definition that I have a problem with.

That depends on your criteria of proof. If a person can't at least prove to himself that he has come to Christ, then he will be in perpetual doubt.

Of course a person knows whether they have come to Christ or not. They don't need to prove it to themselves for it to be objective. It must be proved to others and be able to be replicated in order for it to be objective.

We don't have direct knowledge of God as the mystics claim. Our knowledge comes through the intermediators of His written/preached Word, His Son as the God/man, and His Spirit working when and where He chooses. We can't just barge into God's presence without those intermediators. He first comes to us, and if He doesn't...there is no faith.

Yes. Scripture tells us this is true.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Again, unless the Objective God comes to us and reveals Himself in truth, then I would agree, our faith would be based on a subjective notion. But since He actually and truly works on the hearts of men, converting them etc., then no, that is not a subjective faith.
Mysticism OTOH has no objective God behind their faith but perhaps only the doctrines of demons.

You keep saying Objective God but God is not an Objective God if you go strictly by what the Webster Dictionary says is Objective.

The only reason we can agree that God is the Objective God is because we KNOW He exists. And we know that all Truth that is Truth comes only from Him.

Our faith is completely subjective. We can't prove it exists. Only we know it exists and how strong it is. Just because it comes from the Objective God doesn't mean that our perspective has no bearing on it.

 

[Nehemiah6]

You keep saying Objective God but God is not an Objective God if you go strictly by what the Webster Dictionary says is Objective

All that means is that God is real (also known as Ultimate Reality) and not a figment of the subjective imagination.

Here's what Webster says: "... independent of individual thought and perceptible by all observers : having reality independent of the mind..."

 

[crossnote]

Of course a person knows whether they have come to Christ or not. They don't need to prove it to themselves for it to be objective. It must be proved to others and be able to be replicated in order for it to be objective.

Can history be replicated?, like the birth of the God/man or His bodily resurrection? Yet it is an objective fact seen by many eyewitnesses.

You keep saying Objective God but God is not an Objective God if you go strictly by what the Webster Dictionary says is Objective.

The only reason we can agree that God is the Objective God is because we KNOW He exists. And we know that all Truth that is Truth comes only from Him.

Our faith is completely subjective. We can't prove it exists. Only we know it exists and how strong it is. Just because it comes from the Objective God doesn't mean that our perspective has no bearing on it.

Is not faith an objective gift from a real God? I really don't know how else to say it. Maybe we will just have to agree to disagree until the Lord objectively shows us one way or the other. LOL

 

[Waggles]

Is not faith an objective gift from a real God?

Yes and no.
Are we quibbling over dictionary definitions?
Faith is a gift from God. When I was born new again by the indwelling Holy Spirit I received the gift of faith that validated my
seeking for God through believing the gospel.
I experienced faith but I cannot show it to others as an object, other than by my walk, my piety, my testimony, my claims to answered prayers, my claims to miracles and healings ... faith is circumstantial evidence seen by others in my actions.

Faith and God are real to me and I enjoy occasional revelations and insights to both the Word and to real events that happen.
Like seeing a car coming around the corner on the wrong side of the road before it actually happened.
And yet I would never describe the gifts of the Holy Spirit given to a Pentecostal disciple and within my church as mystical
or of mysticism.
The working of the Holy Spirit is spiritual and God given, and always aligns to the scriptures - the teachings and doctrines of
Jesus and the Apostles.
The gifts of the Holy Spirit such as wisdom and knowledge are that of the scriptures and the righteousness of God ...
note also that God gives the gift of discerning of spirits as a defence to crossing over to the dark side.
The Holy Spirit is a teacher and a guide to all things Jesus and his Word.

Mysticism [secret knowledge and hidden knowledge]
MYS'TICISM, n. Obscurity of doctrine.
1. The doctrine of the Mystics, who profess a pure, sublime and perfect devotion, wholly disinterested, and maintain that they hold immediate intercourse with the divine Spirit.
MYS'TICAL, a. Obscure; hid; secret.
1. Sacredly obscure or secret; remote from human comprehension.

 

[crossnote]

Are we quibbling over dictionary definitions?

Dunno, ask @Grandpa, he keeps bringing up the dictionary definitions.

I experienced faith but I cannot show it to others as an object, other than by my walk, my piety, my testimony, my claims to answered prayers, my claims to miracles and healings ... faith is circumstantial evidence seen by others in my actions.

I never said I could prove faith to others...only that it has an objective object that it embraces, not a mystical experience.

Faith and God are real to me and I enjoy occasional revelations and insights to both the Word and to real events that happen.
Like seeing a car coming around the corner on the wrong side of the road before it actually happened.
And yet I would never describe the gifts of the Holy Spirit given to a Pentecostal disciple and within my church as mystical
or of mysticism.
The working of the Holy Spirit is spiritual and God given, and always aligns to the scriptures - the teachings and doctrines of
Jesus and the Apostles.
The gifts of the Holy Spirit such as wisdom and knowledge are that of the scriptures and the righteousness of God ...
note also that God gives the gift of discerning of spirits as a defence to crossing over to the dark side.
The Holy Spirit is a teacher and a guide to all things Jesus and his Word.

Agreed.

Mysticism [secret knowledge and hidden knowledge]
MYS'TICISM, n. Obscurity of doctrine.
1. The doctrine of the Mystics, who profess a pure, sublime and perfect devotion, wholly disinterested, and maintain that they hold immediate intercourse with the divine Spirit.
MYS'TICAL, a. Obscure; hid; secret.
1. Sacredly obscure or secret; remote from human comprehension.

Also agreed. Maybe you should have addressed your post to @Grandpa for more feedback than I gave. LOL

 

[Grandpa]

All that means is that God is real (also known as Ultimate Reality) and not a figment of the subjective imagination.

Here's what Webster says: "... independent of individual thought and perceptible by all observers : having reality independent of the mind..."

God is not perceptible by all observers.

The reality of God is not independent of individual thought. God reveals Himself to individuals.


When you say 'figment of the subjective imagination' do you mean not real? Or do you mean real but only from the individuals point of view?

Because that is what God is. God is real from the individuals point of view. But God is not perceptible to all observers.

 

[Grandpa]

I never said I could prove faith to others...only that it has an objective object that it embraces, not a mystical experience.

What's the difference between the Christian experience and the mystical experience?

They both subjectively think they come from God.

What makes one correct and the other incorrect?

 

[garee]

Do you think I'm an atheist?

Not at all. I think of you as brother. I just lost my older brother .

 

[Absolutely]

I think what we have here is saying the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the bride obsessed with her groom is basically a bunch of mysticism.
Correct?

 

[Absolutely]

Do you think I'm an atheist?

You are a mystic.
Just joking dude.

 

[Absolutely]

I am positive,anyone completely sold out to Jesus operating in the gifts and totally blown out to God and his kingdom would be labeled by most here as a mystic and heretic.